Talk:Soft drink/Archive 1

History?
According to info i've come across, fizzy drinks originated from research by Swedish chemist Urban Hjärne in 1656. This is inconsistant with the article.. can anyone shed light on this or point to resourses that can corroborate this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.227.78.204 (talk) 23:15, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I disagree that 'orange juice' and other non-fizzy drinks are not 'soft drinks'. Many non-alcoholic drinks (even water) are often referred to as 'soft drinks', particularly on menus or other contexts where one needs to clarify what kinds of drinks are available. Perhaps this is a US/UK issue. -- Hotlorp


 * Orange juice is certainly not a 'soft drink' in the US (or at least not in California; these kinds of terms can vary within the country as well). Fizziness is most definitely implied (though of course fizzy drinks can go flat). --Brion VIBBER

Someone should mention Irish Red Lemonade. In Ireland if you want a drink with lemonade you have to say whether you want red or white lemonade. Simply ask for a lemonade and you're more likely to be given the red stuff. Why? I don't know. Maybe someone living in Ireland can explain. Mintguy

Do we really need to run down what soft drinks are referred to in every language other than English? I can already think of another two languages I could add, and pretty soon we could end up with 4-5 pages just discussing what soft drinks are called in 100 languages. This isn't a translation dictionary, after all. --Delirium 22:10 12 Jul 2003 (UTC)


 * I think it's a good idea. While putting in all the different terms used for Coca-Cola might be overdoing it a bit, I find it interesting to know what soft drinks are out there that might not be sold anywhere else. L&P, the New Zealand soft drink, for instance, is actually made of a combination of Lemon and Paeroa, which is really spring water from the town of Paeroa, where the drink is produced since 1907. Masepack


 * What I do find interesting is how almost all the references in the narrative of the article are to what soft drinks are called in the USA. Canada is only just mentioned, and Europe and Australia are glossed over entirely. I've added in the text that here in Australia, soft drink generally refers to a carbonated non-alcoholic drink. thefamouseccles


 * Intriguing idea, but wrong. Lemon and Paeroa is made from Lemon and mineral water from natural springs near the town of Paeroa. Nothing to do with eucalyptus at all. By the way, in New Zealand, fruit juices like orange juice are never considered as soft drinks, but fruit-flavoured cordials are. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|30px|]] 06:04, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Aren't there parts of the US where a soft drink is called a "dope"? RickK 06:13, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * I can't confirm this, but popvssoda.com lists some areas where most people don't refer to soft drinks as pop, soda, or coke (the "usual three"). I originally thought that those other areas may have included soda pop as a term, but dope may be a term. Maybe someone living in the "other" areas on Pop Vs. Soda's map can say more than I can, because I live in an area where most people (including myself) call it pop, though I've heard some people call it soda (I've never heard anyone call it coke, even though Pop Vs. Soda lists people here in Crawford County calling it that). --User:Evice User talk:Evice Special:Contributions/Evice 16:32, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

is there any special reason for listing 'fanta' and 'coca-cola' under india also? they are clearly american brands maybe they are produced in india as well, but they are being produces everywhere in the world, no reason to list them under that country. i will remove them for now --62.251.90.73 19:22, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The page said that the Coca-Cola corporation referred to soft drinks as "non-alcoholic uncarbonated beverages". While I have no source that disclaims this or states otherwise, I find it highly unlikely that Coca-Cola refers to carbonated beverages as "uncarbonated". As such, I'm assuming it's a typo. However, it is a specific term that someone seems to have had a source for, so I thought I'd leave a note about it. --wfaulk Wed Jul 28 20:41:23 UTC 2004

it says 'internally companies call it blah blah' but obviously most cans say 'soda' or carbonated beverage.. and none say pop as if it were an official term.

Hard drink
I removed the reference to "hard drink", as this is defined not as a drink containing alcohol, but as a drink which is "distilled rather than fermented". anthony (see warning) 14:05, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Orange Crush
Listed under soft drinks it says Crush. Is it the same thing as Orange Crush? --Contrib 21:15, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Follow the link and read all about it. Rmhermen 14:02, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

Soda
What is the origin of the word "Soda"? I'm guessing that adding sodium bicarbonate to acidic fruit juice was the original way of producing carbonation????
 * Adding soda water to syrup at a soda fountain Rmhermen 12:29, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Tonic?
The article mentions that in Boston soda is called "tonic." I've been living here my entire life and have never once heard tonic be used for anything other than tonic water for a gin and tonic, it is never used as a replacement for soda as the article makes use. People in boston call a can of soda a can of soda.


 * Maybe it's a question of age? I was born in Lynn (just north of Boston) in 1945, and didn't leave until around 1956.  The whole time I was there (that I can remember), it was "tonic".  It took a while to unlearn that (as well as jimmies, hoodsies, hamburgs, and frankforts.)  Bunthorne 23:21, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

also, I agree with the person above about soda being called "tonic" in boston. I'm from boston as well and that is complete nonsense. I've never heard of that.


 * You guys must not spend much time with people from Southie. It's common useage, particularly in older neighborhoods.


 * Boston native here. It's definitely common usage, particularly among the older generations.  See this page; "tonic" is the fifth-most frequently used term in North America (after "pop", "soda", "coke", and "soft drink"), and its usage is restricted to Massachusetts and Northern New England.  See also this page for the Mass.-only stats.  "Soda" has about 3,000 Mass. respondents, but "tonic" has over 1,000.  No other state has over 1,000 (or even over 200) responses for something other than "pop", "soda", and "coke".  See also Merriam-Webster online.  Click on "tonic [2, noun", and check out definiton 1d: "chiefly New England : a carbonated flavored beverage".  Or also Dictionary.com's entry for "tonic": " Boston. See soft drink".  And there's a revelatory "Regional Note" on the same page: "Generic terms for carbonated soft drinks vary widely in the United States. Probably the two most common words competing for precedence are soda, used in the northeast United States as well as St. Louis and vicinity, and pop, used from the Midwest westward. In the South any soft drink, regardless of flavor or brand name, is referred to as a Coke, cold drink, or just plain drink. Speakers in Boston and its environs have a term of their own: tonic. Such a variety of regional equivalents is unusual for a product for which advertising is so aggressive and universal; usually advertising has the effect of squeezing out regional variants. On the other hand, there are so many types and flavors of soft drinks that perhaps no single generic word has ever emerged to challenge the regionalisms. See note at dope."  So, to all ye doubters, walk into any maaakit in Haaavid Squayare and ask for a "tonic".  Anyone old enough and Bostonian enough will give you a Coke.


 * Tonic is the standard word in the Merrimack Valley region, or at least it was in the 70s and 80s.

why are soft drinks listed by country *twice* ?!
isn't this extremely redundant??
 * An editing slip, apparently. Since some people have since edited one set of drinks and some have edited the other, I've reverted to the last version before the duplication, and then attempted to restore everyone else's contributions.  (I do hope that's not considered too rude.)--Dah31 04:46, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

What is a soft drink?
The article says: In North America, "soft drink" commonly refers to cold, non-alcoholic beverages.

In the parts of the U.S. where I've lived, at least (Mid-Atlantic area, largely), and in my experience of reading things generally, I have never encountered this definition, which would seem to include fruit juices, lemonade, iced tea, and so forth. I have always thought a "soft drink" referred to a carbonated beverage. Perhaps it is occasionally used in the broader sense, but the article seems to act as though the broader sense is the more usual meaning, with the narrow sense being only an occasional (and possibly somewhat obsolete) variant. This ought to be changed, I think. john k 01:12, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Can anyone cite examples of US usage of "soft-drink" referring to non-carbonated, cold beverages, that isn't incidental? I'd argue that since cold, carbonated beverages make up the majority of restaurant-served cold beverages, there may be incidental grouping of lemonade, or tea, with "soft drink." By incidental, I mean, someone ordering a "soft drink" cup and then obtaining lemonade at the fountain. But, I'd be very interested to see or hear of examples of people deliberately labeling tea or lemonade, or the like, "soft drinks." 70.145.102.253 23:45, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * think of it this way: What is a "hard drink" - obviously it contains alcohol. What is a "soft drink" - it is soft because it contains no alcohol. Doesn't say anything about any other qualities such as carbonation. Rmhermen 00:44, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

True but people in the U.S do not go by that definition if it's carbonated it's a "soft drink" if it's not carbonated it's not reffered to as such. Deathawk 22:49, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I have to disagree. It is one aspect of the meaning in the U.S. as well. Rmhermen 23:21, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I've seen on some menus, (usually Greek restaurants) that they have their spirits, wines, and beers listed as such, and sometimes everything else listed as a soft drink, ie juice. Soft Drink to me means "soda," but I guess for simplicity's sake it's ok to group them like that. --70.94.33.121 03:36, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Q:Soda taste varies by container?
Why does the taste of a soda seem to vary by container? 12-ounce sodas (in aluminum cans) always seem to taste different from the 20-ounce plastic bottle versions. Do chemicals from the containers get into the sodas? Are the formulations of soda different in different sizes? -- Creidieki 5 July 2005 22:23 (UTC)
 * I believe cans retain carbonation better, I don't know if that affects it.
 * Cans and bottles of the same volume retain the same carbonation as long as they remain sealed. Glass bottles are inert and import no "glass taste" to the drink, cans and to a lesser extent plastic bottles are not inert and can react with the beverage to change flavor slightly. Remember Keystone beer with the lined cans "bottled beer taste in a can".L0b0t 15:21, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the Anti-Soda Vandal is back
User: 128.2.247.122 has been inserting obviously POV and highly contentious material regarding soda, its connection to obesity and its potential for addiction into this article and the 7 Eleven article, most likely the old anti-soda vandal. -ShadowStaller 03:34, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Hydration
I really don't think the section regarding 'hydration' belongs here. If there were some solid references to back it up, then maybe, but as it is, just an assertion (about something believed by alternative medicine 'professionals,' no less), I think it's got to go. --Wbrameld 00:51:32, 2005-09-04 (UTC)
 * Remember that we have a rather obsessed anti-caffeine editor; its likely he added that. TBH, you can probably revert him at will, nothing he contributes is beyond vandalism, none of his articles have ever survived VFD, etc. --01:29, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Mixed drinks
This isn't a wildly different variation but what name is given to vanilla ice cream in creme soda? Jaberwocky6669 | ☎Holla! 16:32, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I added "kamikaze" today as a slang term for many types of soda pop mixed together from a fountain (i.e. a mixed soda pop drink). Twas deleted as alcohol: nonsense. I am curious to know if anyone else knew of this as a term for such a drink. I've always heard such a drink referred to as either a "suicide" (which is listed) or a "kamikaze". I'm aware urbandictionary isn't the most reliable source, but it does confirm this usage: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kamikaze. Michaeltroutman 00:07, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Cancer link
After reading the MSNBC article, it should be noted that soda pop is not the only carbonated beverage. Gastric reflux was also listed as the ultimate cause of the cancer - not soft drinks per-se.
 * This entire article has been warped over time by a now-banned user, so feel free to edit it back to whatever you see as fact, as its likely to be close than what he thought (he was -viciously- anti soft drinks, in case you hadn't guessed) --Kiand 15:57, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Wait, so too many POV edits (i.e. above and beyond reasonable warnings by other users) can get a user banned? --M1ss1ontomars2k4 | T | C | @ 05:12, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Terminology
The top paragraph says that although the term is usually restricted as it is, there are a few people who use this term for any drink that lacks alcohol. Is this common?? Feel free to reword the first paragraph. 66.245.113.123 01:13, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Sugar content
I'd like to create a table listing sugar content by brand name, I've been collecting the information from bottle labels and I think it might be useful to others. Being something of a newbie, I'm not sure whether to add it into this page or make a separate article. Any comments? --LesleyW 09:29, 23 November 2005 (UTC)


 * It sounds interesting... but I think that if everything "useful" like this was added to articles, they'd soon become bloated and overlong.


 * Who can argue against adding facts to an encyclopedia, you may ask? Well... I can :) I've seen the effects on articles of "adding facts" edits without sufficient re-editing and pruning for readability. Whilst these edits are okay on their own, the cumulative effect of their addition without regard to the bigger picture is article bloat, and destruction of its flow and accessibility. There's nothing wrong with long articles, but it's my belief that you can't create a good long article simply by expanding a short one. You need to rework it periodically and consider where it's going. "8mm_video_format" is a good example of an article that needs reworking (see also "talk:8mm video format"). It also needs removal/consolidation of some facts; you can't include everything, and if you really want to, you should at least be concise.


 * The problem is that adding individual facts is easy. Writing a readable article that keeps its potential target audience in mind, has a coherent flow, is readable, and that doesn't come across as simply a bunch of organised "facts" is much harder.
 * Fourohfour 11:38, 24 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the comments, I agree about 8mm_video_format and I'd hate be responsible for creating a similar monster, which is why I'm tending towards a separate article. I guess I'll keep building the list (on my talk page) while I think about whether I can make a proper article out of it.
 * --LesleyW 00:07, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Availability
"The wide availability is said to cause young people to somewhat mistake soft drinks for a major food group."

As amusing as this is, I propose we should ditch it unless we get some kind of source. -Ianiceboy 12:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

'Agreed'. I'll remove it in a day or so unless there is objection. Krabstarr 18:09, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Best ukrainian natural water - "Morshinska"
Have you any knowlege about subj.?

Wrong Information
In Tasmania, carbonated non-alcoholic beverages are refered to as cordials.

the above information is wrong remove it

Er, the last two different Tasmanian visitors to my home both refered to carbonated soft drinks as "cordials", both were from Hobart. Alex Law 23:34, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Also, on a related note, those from Western Australia have a tendency to call soft drink 'Cool Drink'. - Matt


 * Be Bold - add it to the article yourself! →Ollie (talk • contribs) 01:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

India under Naming Conventions
The entry under India was recently changed in a way that I can't tell if it is an earnest change, or someone showing a sort of brand preference. The change in question changed the listing of one of India's most popular sodas from Pepsi's Mirinda brand to Coca-Cola's Thums Up brand. Could someone familiar with India and the subject clarify? Krabstarr 06:33, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well...I can't be sure, but according to the Thums Up article, it's the most popular in India. --M1ss1ontomars2k4 | T | C | @ 05:08, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Diabetes link
Could it be a bit more informed? Soda isn't linked to 'diabetes', its remotely linked to Type 2 Diabetes, in that the high sugar content is one of the factors in gaining weight and becoming obese, which in turn puts people at a higher risk of Type 2 Diabetes, especially if they are predisposed to it. Maybe it should be said it has a link to obesity which in turn has a link to Type 2 Diabetes

Possible external link?
I've made a Squidoo lens about soda pop -- www.squidoo.com/sodapop/ -- and am curious whether it's an appropriate external link for this entry.

Benzene update?
Should new benzene info be added following this FDA press release (and various similar international stories)? Stories moved on national wires the same week, but I haven't found them yet. http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2006/NEW01355.html ... Posted May 3, 2006

I think the whole benzene section seems a little dubious to begin with and I'd rather just remove the whole thing. In any case, the FDA press release states, "FDA believes that the results of CFSAN's recent survey indicate that the levels of benzene found in soft drinks do not pose a safety concern." ... Posted May 31, 2006

Nunquam Dormio 08:14, 1 June 2006 (UTC) As the rest of this small section states, in Europe four brands were removed from sale because of high benzene levels. See also BBC report. So given that this is a subsection under the general heading Controversy, it's entirely appropriate that benzene is included. However, as there's a separate wiki topic Benzene in soft drinks, this section need not be any longer, so long as it refers to the detailed topic.

Phosphoric acid
Does anyone know if phosphoric acid is still rumored/believed/etc. to cause weakening of the bones? I know it's used for keeping the caffeine from precipitating, but my science teacher in 6th grade (she got fired, BTW) said that phosphoric acid is bad for your bones. I personally don't think so. Also, in my school newspaper recently there was an article that claimed that a cup of soda could dissolve a cockroach in a day. Is this true? And even if it were, I bet stomach acid could do the same anyway. --M1ss1ontomars2k4 | T | C | @ 04:48, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Coke vs. Pepsi
Under the U.S. section, the article stated:
 * While a patron who requests a “coke” may be truly indifferent as to which cola brand he receives, the careful order taker will confirm intent with a question like “Is Pepsi OK?” to avoid legal problems from the large suppliers who send checkers around to avoid their trademark names becoming a generic term.

I'm taking off the last part of the sentence because IMO people ask because their customers have a preference, not because there is some legal responsibility to protect trademarks. If it's put back can we get some kind of citation on this? -- cmh 22:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

"Coke" is a brand name. Therefore "Pepsi" can not be sold when the customer thinks he is getting "Coca Cola". It would be like going to the home depot, asking for a black and decker product and getting another brand. Brand names are trademarks. It's common sense. 74.65.39.59
 * People don't clarify it because they're afraid of being sued by trademark owners, they clarify it in case the customer is particular about the brand. If some one asks for "Tylenol" the majority will, in fact, just want generic acetaminophen.  The clarification, in my experience, is to save time and energy fixing the mistake in case making an assumption displeases the customer.  THAT is common sense. The average person doesn't care about Pepsi or Coke and their trademarks, only the flavour.  - BalthCat 01:21, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Scottish Terminology
The article states that 'ginger' is a common term for softdrinks in western Scotland. As a native of Glasgow, I admit people do use the word 'ginger', but it is decreasingly common - it is mainly used by older generations and there is a class distinction since 'ginger' is commonly only used by those of the lower classes in Scottish society. Mike 21:58, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
I took "Many such beverages contain caffiene, which moromon people don't like" to be vandalism and reverted the edit. I suppose "moromons" may be a race of caffeine hating people. If so, please replace the edit and include a citation. Fracture98 04:45, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That would be Mormons who do eschew caffeine as well as alcohol. Rmhermen 04:51, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Turns out the same user vandalized that page as well. Rmhermen 04:52, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know. I was trying to be amusing (apparently without success). Thanks. Fracture98 04:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Image
Has anyone noticed the edge of what appears to be a Windows 3.1 dialogue box on the centre right of the image? :-)

- Penagate 15:50, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow. In two and a half years, no one has mentioned it. I trimmed up the image. Still I would like to see a better one - say with full shelves. Rmhermen 17:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

i took one today with full shelves and uploaded it. i've also added one of a can of lemonade/a glass. feel free to (re)move these around if they don't fit; let me know if you need another. cheers SMC 13:34, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Alcoholic Content
Under the very last section it says that an October 2006 study notes that come soft drinks contain measurable amounts of alcohol. However, after looking at the source cited, there is no evidence for this. The source cited says that the studies found amounts of pesticides, not alcohol. This should either be removed or a reliable source should be cited. Xiivi 09:44, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Fixed. But we could probably use a more section on the pesticide issue - now mentioned in the India section. Rmhermen 15:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

History
This page needs a History section. I believe that Soda Pop originated in the USA at the soda fountains of pharmacies, but I could easily be mistaken. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cshay (talk • contribs) 22:23, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

Soda in Chicago?
Hello. I deleted Chicago as being an area where soda is predominantly used, as I know from personal experience and from looking at the map created by the website "pop vs soda" that pop is more commonly used. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Syrupface (talk • contribs) 14:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

i used to live about an hour or 2 from chicago and most people said pop. we also say pop in upper michigan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.86.179.34 (talk) 17:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Soft drinks and Teeth
OK, something weird has gone on here and I'm not really sure what it's supposed to say (otherwise I'd fix it right away), but it needs fixing at least:
 * A large number of soft drinks are acidic and some may have a pH of 3.0 or even lower.[3] Drinking acidic drinks over a long period of time and continuous the soda pop called mountain dew is made from cold pea General Dentistry, May-June, vol. 53, no. 3, 2005. [3] [4] 

It looks like two, three, or more claims somehow smashed together with formatting gone bad too... -- Northgrove 17:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Diet Bias
Statements like "A recent study showed however, that consumption of Diet Soft Drinks instead of normal Soft Drinks, increases the consumers risk of obesity. Consuming one can of Diet Soda every day increases the risk of obesity by 36-47%" are totally unfounded, though often sited, and always contain the nice random percentages. With the 'soda often goes with fast food'statement, this is not needed as that is the only connection.

Also, aspartame needs to be addressed. -- WilliamACopeland

Health Benefits
This article only talks about the negative effects of drinking carbonated beverages without discussing the positive effects, such as the fact that they help clear up stuffy noses, or that the acidity in colas can aid digestion and cure dyspepsia. The positive health effects of sodas should be discussed as well. --Prb4 04:52, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Alas, but it doesn't seem that there is any benefit to popular soft drinks. At least I was unable to find any in spite of a brief but extensive search. At the very least, some benefit might be attainable only if the drink contains a certain amount of raw fruit extracts or mineral supplements at amounts significant enough to improve health, or at least negating some of the typical adverse side effects associated with sugar, additives and benzoic acid. Albert Wincentz 09:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Milk vs soft drinks

 * Milk 0,5% fat = 40 kcal/100g
 * Milk 1,5% fat = 45 kcal/100g
 * Milk 3,0% fat = 60 kcal/100g
 * Sockerdricka = 35kcal/100ml
 * Julmust = 35kcal/100ml
 * Hallonsoda = 40kcal/100ml
 * Trocadero = 40kcal/100ml
 * Pepsi = 45kcal/100ml
 * 7 up = 50kcal/100ml
 * Coca Cola = 45kcal/100ml
 * Fanta = 50kcal/100ml

I had some time to kill... :) Maybe useful?
 * No, not useful because you are misleadingly comparing kcal/g of milk to kcal/ml of sodas. They are not equivalent figures. Rmhermen 19:22, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

"try water now :)--Svetovid 21:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Milk 0,5% = 39kcal/100ml
 * Milk 1,5% = 47kcal/100ml
 * Milk 3,0% = 60kcal/100ml

Definitions
This article defines drinks like "sparking water" as a soft drink and goes on to talk about how soft drinks cause obesity. Even drinks like "lemonade" make me wonder - is traditional lemonade what these studies have in mind when they make findings of obesity? --Hyperbole 09:05, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Uses and Re:Definitions
"This article defines drinks like "sparking water" as a soft drink and goes on to talk about how soft drinks cause obesity. Even drinks like "lemonade" make me wonder - is traditional lemonade what these studies have in mind when they make findings of obesity?"
 * There's a good point here. What makes a soda a soda? Carbinated water? Sugar level?

Many soft drinks are extremely acidic. They are used occasionally for cleaning and are often very effective, though diet drinks are generally prefered because the lack of sugar makes them much less sticky. This is just one use, I'm sure there are more, so it would be nice if someone could look into it. Omniferous 17:02, 25 September 2007 (UTC)