Talk:Sophomore slump

Wikified as part of the Wikification wikiproject! JubalHarshaw 15:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect <---Worth mentioning? 69.161.80.217 03:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Mentioned the relationship in both articles. –Pomte 07:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Merger
Sophomore slump and sophomore jinx seem to cover pretty much the same ground idea. violet/riga (t) 14:55, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I totally agree, they have the same basic concept that the second year / season is not as good as the first and as such merging the two articles into one will better explain the concept than two separate articles.--Mendors 23:18, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Done.  Λυδ α cιτγ  01:08, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Regression Toward the Mean - doesn't seem accurate
The section states "If a first effort is particularly outstanding, statistically it is likely that the next will be closer to average" which I believe is an inaccurate way of describing regression toward the mean. Statistically it is likely that any given result will be close to the average. It is not more likely to be closer to the mean, "because" the first effort is particularly outstanding. The first, outstanding result represents an uncommon case that has the same (low) chance of repeating, and the second result is independant thus being equally as unlikely to occur. That the first result occurs is just coincidence. 216.36.186.2 (talk) 15:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * What it means is that given an outlier in the first instance, a second result closer to the mean is more likely. The first result has not influenced the probability of a given value in the second result, merely given people a false impression of the probabilities. It is mathematically solid. GrampaScience (talk) 13:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It could be interpreted as a Gambler's Fallacy as written, though that was not the intent. I've rewritten it a bit clearer. Kenhullett (talk) 19:35, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The mean in sports and music is complete incompetence.

The sophomore slump in sports can reflect:

1. that the first performance was a statistical freak, an unusually-strong season from someone of modest talent. The modest talent shows the next year.

2. that opposing players find weaknesses of his play or bad habits -- and exploit them. Performance obviously declines until the player adjusts or until the player is sent to minor league play or is released. Strategy is part of all sports, and at times it can defeat raw talent. Greatness in athletics ordinarily implies the polishing of raw talent.

3. Luck. Injuries. Personal failures such as alcohol, heroin, and cocaine.

...Does anyone want to study whether most players get more opportunities in their second, non-rookie season -- and improve from rookie performance?

Music isn't so much competition. If one is good enough it does not matter that someone else is better. The sophomore jinx of a pop musician may reflect:

1. that the one-time hit is itself a freak event. It could be a perfect juxtaposition of a song and circumstances, a once-in-a-lifetime conjunction that can never recur. A mediocre talent might have that happen.

2. an unrepeatable gimmick. There might be a rhythmic device that sounds good once. Use it once and it is memorable. Try it again and it is silly.

3. Limited talent. One can't rely entirely upon slow ballads or songs with upbeat tempos; one must do both to have credibility on stage and to make albums that people want to buy. Having a narrow vocal range doesn't help. Instrumental players obviously must have some modicum of virtuosity if they are to entertain.

4. failure to adapt. Getting caught at the end of an era in popular music.

5. personal failure. A huge amount of money all at once to someone who has never had much can lead one into some horrible temptations -- like alcohol, heroin, and cocaine.

6. poor judgment. One starts believing one's own publicity and fails to have a critical evaluation of one's performances. In such an instance audiences might catch on before the performer does.

...Personal growth and development is more likely than any "sophomore slump" or "second-time jinx"

Second season syndrome merger
Dancarney has put a mergeto for Second season syndrome to be merged into this article but with no rationale given here.  LunarLander  //  talk  // 01:34, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose - As 'sophomore' seems to be the lesser used term of the two and it is also quite US-centric.  LunarLander  //  talk  // 01:34, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "Sophomore slump" and "second-season syndrome" are different names for the same thing. We don't have separate articles for "pavement" and "sidewalk" or for "courgette" and "zucchini". Ilikeeatingwaffles (talk) 09:57, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Ilikeeatingwaffles (talk) 10:04, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose This is a specific instance, not merely a language variant parallel article. There should be (as there is) mutual reference, but it would be (logically, if not scale-wise) like merging United States of America into nation. Kevin McE (talk) 10:24, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose: We do need a title to unify these two articles, but this isn't it . — Half  Price  14:27, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Per GiantSnowman. — Half  Price  11:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Oppose they are not the same thing! 'Sophomore slump' is defined as "It is commonly used to refer to the apathy of students...the performance of athletes...bands...television shows...and movies" whereas 'second season syndrome' is association football specific! GiantSnowman 09:30, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose per GiantSnowman. The context that these two terms are used in are completely different. J Mo 101 (talk) 10:55, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose per GiantSnowman. Omgosh30 (talk) 23:14, 21 November 2010 (UTC)