Talk:Southern Cross railway station

Rumour
Where'd the rumor come from? I haven't heard of it before. Ambivalenthysteria 11:15, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately there aren't very many sources, that's why it's only a rumour: I'll move it here until some more research can be done. Hypernovean 11:19, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Hey, I'm not objecting to it being there - it was mentioned a rumor after all. :) I'm simply curious. Ambivalenthysteria 11:21, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * There is rumoured to be a now disused World War II bunker underneath the station.
 * Only source I can find is . Maybe if you could get in touch with one of the construction workers at SSS they might know. Somebody in the WWW 02:29, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

photo of new entry signage
Any chance of someone getting a photo of the new big entry signage that went up this morning? Ambi 13:22, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Secondly, as of July 2004? This article really does need some attention. Ambi 12:16, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've put a new photo in, though the colour in it's a bit off... I might try and get a better one. --Evan C 03:08, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Better one now :) --Evan C 16:43, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Completion date
"expected to be completed in mid-2006, in time for the 2006 Commonwealth Games". As the Games are in the first quarter of 2006, this is a chronological impossibility. Nurg 23:03, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

The true fact of the case is that the platforms and the station are going to be at a usable level but not finished. Second the only real area open in the Northern shopping section may be the coach termial


 * True. The retail section has been a lower priority than the actual platform/station/roof work. As that is now almost complete, emphasis should switch towards the retail area. ComaDivine 05:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)


 * This article from The Age (7/5/06) might have some useful information about the shopping precinct that could be worked into the article. --131.172.4.45 01:20, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Telstra Dome
Unless there are any protests I am going to change the information in reference to the Telstra Dome to accurately reflect it's capacity. It has a max seating capacity of 74,000 with the standard for AFL matches being 56,347. This will also coincide with the information found in the relevant Wiki article. Shumway 13:00, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Telstra Dome is not part of Southern Cross Station. I don't believe this level of information belongs in the article.  Merely mentioning the stadium is adjacent should be enough. --ozzmosis 19:21, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I have fixed this. --ozzmosis 22:07, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Train Platforms
Do Alamein, Williamstown and Sandringham lines go through Southern Cross because someone has changed it saying change at the interchange stations further out. And what is with the 15 platform 22 track business. Is there really 22? I hope someone is not counting the tracks where Telstra Dome currently is. The info is probably right but I just want to double check. Lakeyboy 11:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The majority of Alamein and Williamstown services do not go through Southern Cross, but they should be listed anyway, as numerous peak services do travel through. A smaller number of Sandringham services do go via the loop, but it should be listed all the same.
 * The 22 tracks idea could well come from the fact that there are a number of tracks between platforms (eg; Pl 4 and 5, Pl 10 and 11), in addition to two non-platform tracks on the far-west edge of the station. --Evan C (Talk) 14:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sandringham trains go through the loop (inc. Southern Cross) ONLY for weekend services. 220.238.58.47 00:13, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Is it true that both platforms 1 and 2 can be used by standard gauge trains? This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMztI752wWI&t=206s seems to show only one dual-guage tracked platform.? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sylviaelse (talk • contribs) 07:50, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
 * This track diagram should help you to see which are standard gauge and broad gauge. It is not too clear from the video because the outer end of platform 2 is SG only. Triptothecottage (talk) 08:36, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Image prior to redevelopment
It would be really good to get an image of the station prior to its redevelopment. If anyone has an old photo floating around or if there are any other free use images that could be tracked down that would be awesome! Tinkstar1985 09:26, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Technical close to prevent confusion Mike Cline (talk) 16:55, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Southern Cross Station → Southern Cross railway station, Melbourne — This article should be moved to Southern Cross railway station, Melbourne to maintain a consistent style with every other article on railway stations in Melbourne.

Metlink also lists the station as Southern Cross Railway Station so the move would also be in keeping with the official name of the station by the rail network administration. — Scott Nash (talk) 04:28, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Support for reasons outlined above. Scott Nash (talk) 04:29, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:44, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move?

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Move. Fairly clear consensus to remove "Melbourne". Cúchullain t/ c 18:52, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Southern Cross railway station, Melbourne → Southern Cross railway station –
 * There are no other articles about Southern Cross railway stations. McGeddon (talk) 09:42, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * There IS another: Southern Cross, Western Australia. And see the move discussion hereinabove. I was in Australia 1984 June/July, and their telephone directories contain -illions of entries for things called Southern Cross. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:48, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Support clearly the primary topic; once upon a time I removed the comma dab from the rest in Melbourne and didn't do this because the various templates/infoboxes refer to Southern Cross Station Crusoe8181 (talk) 10:13, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose - per WP:PRECISION, no benefit to users in not distinguishing from Southern Cross railway station, Western Australia even though that is only (as of now) a redirect. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:22, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * By that logic, WP:PRIMARYTOPIC should just be scrapped altogether. Jenks24 (talk) 10:26, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose the move to Southern Cross railway station but I do think that it should be moved to Southern Cross station per WP:COMMONNAME. Bidgee (talk) 12:13, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The other Southern Cross station isn't even an article, yet this one is one of the biggest railway stations in Victoria. All google news hits refer to the Melbourne one. The Victoria station has been viewed a fraction under 7000 times in the last 90 days, compared to 15 for the redirect and those have all been since the RM started. Really, this is the kind of case the primary topic guideline was written for – I reckon even Noetica, Dicklyon, et al. would support this one. On Bidgee's point about the removal of "railway", I'm ambivalent. It is commonly referred to as simply "Southern Cross station", but I think have railway in the title is part of some naming convention for all railway stations. Jenks24 (talk) 10:26, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. Unnecessary disambiguation of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Zarcadia (talk) 21:50, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. Clear-cut case of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. A major station in a large city against a place for trains to stop in a tiny country town (also, I am slightly amazed Google got a Street View driver out to Southern Cross).  IgnorantArmies  – 15:08, Friday November 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose. It is "well known" only in one city in the world, and even then only to those who already are familiar with public transport.  This is expecting too much of the readers (who are not well represented by editors).  The overly simple name proposed sounds like a fictional space location associated with a constellation, similar to The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, and the actual railway station doesn't serve a location of that name.  I'd actually prefer both that the article be named Spencer Street Station, Melbourne to better reflect its overall history (and not recentism) and for it to be renamed back to Spencer Street Station in the real world.  This caused me real world confusion just last weekend.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:39, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Support WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is conclusively proven by usage statistics and the existing redirect. --BDD (talk) 19:14, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Platform Configuration
The infobox says that there are 24 platforms, but the map on the station's website shows only 1-14 and even this article only identifies 15 & 16 in the "Platforms" sub-category. Are there any underground platforms? I think this needs to be clarified a bit more somewhere on the page. --Criticalthinker (talk) 09:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, I went ahead and did some digging myself, and I see where I was making an incorrect assumption. Each on of the platforms from 2 through 7 are actually divided into two different zones on the same platform (areas both of the footbridge and zones south of the footbridge).  And, platform 8 is actually three different platforms since 8S is south of Collins and often not pictured or shown in platform diagrams.  Platform 1 only has one platform, and most diagrams are outdated which is why 15 & 16 are not often show.  So, when you get them all counted, it is 24 different departure platforms.  It's an unusual layout, for sure. --Criticalthinker (talk) 17:47, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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"still colloquially known as Spencer Street station"
Is this an accurate statement for the current era? This is an infrequently updated article; the 500th most recent edit is as far back as 2008, twelve years ago and only two years after the renaming. In my personal experience, Southern Cross is not colloquially thought of as 'Spencer Street station' except perhaps amongst some older adults. Retaining a 'colloquial' name that appears to have actually fallen out of common use seems potentially inaccurate and unencyclopedic. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 12:06, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Source for "Victoria Station"
Recent edits added "Victoria station" as the original name of Southern Cross/Spencer Street. I have never heard this before and I cannot find any sources online to back up this claim, are there sources confirming it? There was an old urban legend that the Flinders St building was intended for Victoria station in Mumbai, is that the source of this idea? I didn't want to immediately revert in case I am missing something, but will have to revert if there isn't sufficient evidence. Gracchus250 (talk) 05:44, 31 October 2022 (UTC)


 * There are many references to "Victoria station" on the SLV website, from where the image came. Happy be proved wrong, but (speaking with respect) it must rely on more than just opinion even if evidence is tenuous. (Trove??). Cheers, Simon – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬 at 05:54, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * A quick further search shows a report in the Argus, 31 July 1855, p. 5:
 * SPENCER STREET RAILWAY STATION.
 * Councillor Bowden presented a petition from several mercantile firms, praying for the formation of the permanent level of Spencer-street, as it was probable that that locality would become the site of an important railway station.
 * The petition was ordered to be taken into consideration along with the second and fourth orders of the day (the former of which consists of several notices of motion given by Councillor Bowden, and postponed from a former meeting of Council).
 * So less than a year after Australia's first steam-powered railway opened at Flinders Street, it was referred to (at least in a generic sense) as Spencer Street station. I would like to look further to ensure the station wasn't subsequently named Victoria station, which I'll try to do tomorrow. SCHolar44 (talk) 06:19, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, that SLV image says "Victorian railway station", not "Victoria Station". And I cannot see any references to "Victoria Station", besides the London station, on the SLV website. We cannot rely on opinion, we need at least one clear and substantive historical source to back up the name, as it would be an important fact and at the moment I cannot find any evidence for it. Likely it's just a generically named image with a misleading caption, meaning "a Victorian railway station". As for Trove, that image is from c.1885 and it is referred to as Spencer Street station in 1864, 1875 and 1885 itself, just as a sample, there's plenty across other years, and I find no reference to a Melbourne "Victoria station" in Trove. So at the moment I am inclined to say there is no evidence for this change. Gracchus250 (talk) 06:26, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, I was too hasty. After trawling through Trove and a few books, it seems that "the Victorian station" was used by various people in the earliest days to distinguish it from "the Melbourne station" at Flinders Street with its suburban services (for which see first of following examples). Perhaps "Victorian" conveyed "services outside of Melbourne", i.e. the growing country services. Although clearly in common usage (examples 2–5), Spencer Street station was the name used in departmental notice in 1859. So there is no evidence that anything other than Spencer Street was used, and that "the Victorian station", although quite likely in wide informal use, was not a formal name.
 * Reference to Flinders Street:
 * 1. [An advert for a steamer to Wellington "via the Railway Pier at Sandridge"]: A special train will leave the Melbourne Station at 1.18 p.m. (Argus 1 Feb 1859, p. 1)
 * Private adverts referring to Victorian / Spencer St station:
 * 2. AGREEABLE society and comfortable HOME for gentlemen, near the Victorian Railway Station,382 Lonsdale-street west. (Argus 5 March 1859, p. 8)
 * 3. Three and four roomed COTTAGES, near Victorian Railway Station. Benjamin, 30 Llttle Collins-street west. (Argus 26 March 1859, p. 8)
 * 4. COLLINS and SPENCER STREETS.-To LET, FRONTAGES, facing the Victorian Railway Station. (Argus 4 August 1859, p. 3)
 * 5. THIS DAY. G. THOMAS and Co. will SELL by AUCTION, at the Victorian Railway Station, Spencer-street, on Thursday, August 4.
 * Government departmental notice:
 * NOTICE. TENDERS are Invited for the REMOVAL of GOODS from the Railway station, Spencer-street, and storage of the same. Full particulars at the office of the Traffic Superintendent, Spencer-street Station. G.W.S. HORNE, Commissioner of Public Works, Crown Lands Office (Argus 25 Feb 1859, p. 8).


 * Accordingly I'll now revert. Ah! I see you have already reverted – perhaps a little uncollegial, given that I promised to finalise today, but the same end result. – SCHolar44 🇦🇺 💬 at 07:55, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I fail to see how it was uncollegial, the outcome was frankly very clear and I don't think it's useful to leave up an incorrect claim in such a prominent position for longer than necessary. I brought it to the talk page instead of immediately reverting purely out of respect and collegiality, even though it was clearly a misreading of the source, so I resent the backhanded comment. Gracchus250 (talk) 23:51, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Origin of name Spencer
Please add. Thanks 122.148.11.159 (talk) 05:39, 18 June 2024 (UTC)