Talk:Street light

Reversion
the latest edits seem to be unrelated to the existing content... i will revert to a previous version Nsevs 16:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Dangers of street lights
This section seems a bit ridiculous to include. Why don't we have dangers of X person, place, object or idea on all entries? Buldings pose a collision risk to motorists. Pedestrians pose a collision risk to motorists. Bird houses pose a collision risk to motorists. Abe Vigoda poses a collision risk to motorists. While they were all alive, the entire band Grateful Dead posed a collision risk to motorists. Now, the surviving band members continue to pose a risk to motorists. The tombstones of the dead Grateful Dead members continue to pose risks to motorists.

See what I'm getting at? Unless the section can be justified, I think it should be removed or at least renamed. Personally I don't think they belong in this article, but rather should be notes in a List of Collision Risks to Motorists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.28.104.151 (talk) 17:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Desirability of street lights
A variety of studies have supported this view but at least one indicated that it had little or no effect.

References should be given. This phrase seems not neutral, giving importance to just "one article". How many studies have ben carried out? One in three is significant, but one in a hundred deserves no reference to it. --John C PI 14:58, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I googled around for these studies but couldn't find any. I took the liberty of removing this section of the article myself. --Matt0401 18:57, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * It is no longer true that Britain has almost exclusively Sodium lighting. It is now becoming rare in many areas!  Dbfirs (talk) 23:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to know why this article references light pollution, is this mumbo jumbo really even proven to be included here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.51.41.46 (talk) 17:15, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Inconsistency
Some other web page in Wikipedia claims that Paris in France had some electric street lamps in 1878.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yablochkov_candle

Paris being in Europe; that would make it the first European city to have street lights.


 * It was demonstrated but wasn't placed into production as a street lamp. Binarypower 16:42, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

How can Tamworth, NSW be the first town in the Southern Hemisphere to receive electric street lighting in 1888 if Kimberley, South Africa already had street lighting in 1882? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.209.98.122 (talk) 07:36, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

The claim for Tamworth as the first Southern Hemisphere city with electric street lighting is almost certainly incorrect - see section further down on talk page. 15.203.233.78 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:06, 21 December 2010 (UTC).

"The next challenges"/"The future"
To me, that section seems out of place, somewhat biased, and totally unsourced. My initial instinct was to remove it, however I don't want to destroy what looks like good faith work with (I hope) good info in it. Anyone else have advices or something on that section?

The whole calculation section of CO2 emmissions is completely unsourced and untrue. An average incandecent bulb may be 150 (I would personally say lower), however, later int the section it mentions lamps at 5 and 20 watts. Also, street lighting contributes to less than 3% of the power consumed by the city. In the power shortage of the 80s, Las Vegas ordered all neon-lighting to be turned off. In turn, savings of 3% were made, so this is hardly worth mentioning as a major polluter of CO2. In my opinion, I think recalculating it with 20 volt streetlights, and comparing the kWhs consumed to another energy consumer, eg: Air Conditioning. Architect2k 17:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Reads like original research to me, I was going to comment on it right when I read it.. Reads like.. somebody lobbying for change or something. --Streaky 17:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Studies in Denmark for systems with electronic ballasts communicating through power line communication to the cabinet has shown that the ROI is around 9-10 years if applied to an existing street light system. In Denmark you will need 2 people and a lift for installing the electronic ballast to the fixture and with the cost of the equipment and an expected lifetime for electronic equipment in this environment, this doesn't make the solution feasible.

First city
According to this, the first city in the world to be lit by electric streetlamps was Cleveland, Ohio, in 1879. Uncle G 09:46, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks like your correct from these sources too. Binarypower 03:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Acoording to, Paris was using arc lamps in 1877 (the text is in black on black) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.73.148.130 (talk) 18:06, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Distance
is there any maximum distance streetlights can be place away from each other, I would assume so as their effectivness with diminish the further away from each other they were placed. I was bored last ngiht and figured out they were roughly 30m apart from each other either on the smae side of the road of alternating from one side to the other —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Patcore (talk • contribs) 10:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

Manufacturers
Shouldn't there be such a section in this article? Possible entries are: AEG, GE (USA), Siemens (Germany), Svetlina (Stara Zagora, Bulgaria) etc. Kaksisi 18:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Grim light
Sorry for making this peaceful article a bit horrendous, but the additions still belong there, that was a part of history. 91.83.28.101 (talk) 13:38, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Someone purged the article, which is equal to censorship. Like it or not lamp posts were and are frequently used as makeshift gallows in mob executions and the paragraph I added included several example, yet some jerk swiftly removed as unsourced. This is equal to censorship! 91.83.16.172 (talk) 22:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The content removed was totally uncited! If it was cited then you may have had a case for censorship. Also assume good faith with the editor who removed the content since anyone can edit Wikipedia! Bidgee (talk) 23:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

How is this article U.S. biased?
I think the U.S. bias template should be removed because the article is not U.S. biased. As stated on the template "This article or section deals primarily with the United States and does not represent a worldwide view of the subject." The article has no pictures of American street lights and has little mention of the history of street lights in the United States as a separate article has been created for that. The actual word "United States" appears only twice in the article, "Australia" ... over 5 times. This article is more Australian biased than American biased. The user who frequently edits this article (Bidgee) is from Australia and obviously wants this article to have a lot of information about street lights in Australia. I see no U.S. bias at all. Is removing every bit of information regarding the United States your idea of no U.S. bias? Just because there are a few lines that mentions the history of street lights in the United States, it doesn't mean the article is U.S. biased. I have read the entire article and only one sentence mentions United States.

This an assumption, but my opinion is that the Australian who often edits this article is anti American and prefers an Australia bias. 72.39.23.16 (talk) 17:43, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think I put the template there but no doubt it was there before the History of street lighting in the United States article. I've not looked into to see whether it has US bias of late so I will not comment on that however you call me an Australian bias which I'm not and that I'm removing US infromation in which I haven't so I would like you to withdraw that statment since I feel that it's not assuming good faith. I'm happy for anyone to add infromation but I've got no knowledge on street lights in other countries and have added very little content other then photos and maybe some text. Also I revered this edit as I seen that content was removed without an edit summary and also removed the link to another article. Bidgee (talk) 17:58, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It was wrong of me to assume, but it was not meant to be an attack, just my opinion on why the template might be there when I see no need for it to be there. That aside, I do believe the template is no longer needed. 72.39.23.16 (talk) 18:05, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * You should never assume but I also don't see it as an opinion. If it was an opinion it would have been best to say that you no longer see the need for the template since the article has no American bias within the article. Also I'm no way anti American. Bidgee (talk) 18:10, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

shouldn't "light pole" redirect here?
I don't know how to do redirects and don't got time to research it now, could someone please make it so "light pole" redirects here please? or "light pole" means somthing else, or nothing at all? --TiagoTiago (talk) 17:42, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Reference 4 isn´t working
The reference should be fixed.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.221.152.37 (talk) 12:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

add new link to external links....
hi, i have a website that has all the history of street lights in australia... the address is http://webstuff.gotdns.com/austreet i am asking for permision for this to be added to the external links. this is not spam...

thanks chris —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.245.126.165 (talk) 14:08, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

History in wrong article
For some reason a much more comprehensive history of street lights - mostly about oil lanterns from 1417 onwards - is in the article gas lighting. Shouldn't it be here instead? Also the term "modern street lamps" is meaningless to me. What was modern about them? Were they the first to burn kerosene? 213.122.4.189 (talk) 20:01, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Merge from Urban lighting, unsure about some content
Following request for wikification, have merged Urban lighting into this page; I agree that there is significant overlap in the subject matter. I have not included some text, which seems to me to require far too many citations to be suitable for inclusion. However, I include the text here should others find it of merit and wish to incorporate it into this or related articles. Note that bold areas refer to Heading 3 - did not want to clutter contents section with this.

Gas Lighting Invention of gas lighting and the industrial revolution produced a shift in the perception of urban lighting. Gas lighting started with the experiment of John Clayton, which were published in Royal Society / London as early as in 1739 and culminated into first public display of gas lighting on 4 June 1807 in London by Friedrich Albert Winzer. From there it took only 5 years to establishment of the Chartered Gas Light and Coke Company to which a task of supplying gas for London was appointed for 21 years. That was the beginning of a unified urban lighting system that was based on a system of pipes leading from gas manufacturing plants to individual houses.

Electricity The times of 'fin de siècle', at the end of 19th century, were very turbulent regarding lighting designs. Technology changed from gas to arc lamp and then to filament lamps in less than 30 years. These 30 years mark the change in front-runners of light technology which soon became not the festivals and events but commercials. They were the most widespread, if not the most advanced, users of new light sources such as filament lamp and later, after 1926, also the fluorescent lamp. Together with the height of the buildings these »luminous message boards« grew unrestrained for almost a century. In some cities it produced environments where street lamp posts became almost unneeded.

Bearslikejam (talk) 01:07, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Studies citing advantages for street lights
Here are some links that might be useful for the advantages/disadvantages section.

There is a meta-analysis of a number of studies looking at the road-accident reduction rates for street lighting here: Street lighting for preventing road traffic injuries. It is published by the Cochrane Library and looks at 17 intervention studies. It draws a conclusion that there is evidence to suggest street lighting reduces accidents.

On the flip side, there are comments on this analysis, by Dr Paul Marchant. He explains why the results of the analysis (and the studies that it refers to) may be statistically biased.

The same Paul Marchant has also published an article in Proceedings of the Dark-Skies Symposium, 2006, going into more detail about why we should be skeptical of some studies about the benefits of lighting. AndrewBolt (talk) 23:40, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Kimberley/Southern Hemisphere
As Kimberley is in the Southern Hemisphere, according to the article it shgould be the first city in the Southern Hemisphere to have electric lighting, not the town in Australia that is currently credited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.213.126.7 (talk) 18:09, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Agree - several other sources indicate Kimberley to be the first city in the Southern Hemisphere, as well as Africa, to have electric street lighting. 15.203.233.78 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC).

Dubious Islamic Inventions No. 578
Would anyone more knowledgeable check this statement ? ''Before incandescent lamps, gas lighting was employed in cities. The earliest lamps required that a lamplighter tour the town at dusk, lighting each of the lamps, but later designs employed ignition devices that would automatically strike the flame when the gas supply was activated. The earliest of such street lamps were built in the Arab Empire,[1] especially in Córdoba, Spain.[2]''

The first reference states rather largely:

Fielding H. Garrison, History of Medicine:

"The Saracens themselves were the originators not only of algebra, chemistry, and geology, but of many of the so-called improvements or refinements of civilization, such as street lamps, window-panes, firework, stringed instruments, cultivated fruits, perfumes, spices, etc''..."

I'm inclined to think that they originated none of these things: window-panes were Roman;  fireworks Chinese, etc.;  whilst obviously stringed instruments and cultivated fruits go back to dim antiquity, at least in the Middle East. That the Arabs/Saracens had a municipal gas supply would be surprising: that these lamps had auto-ignition strains the imagination... Claverhouse (talk) 03:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I finally removed this, years after it should have been done as part of Template:Jagged 85 cleanup. This was added in 2007 by User:Jagged 85, who was topic-banned from history of Islam for misrepresenting sources to support an Islamic origin to absolutely everything. He was then site banned for doing the same on articles about arcade games. This text is typical of his modus operandi. It is a 100-year-old book on a completely different field, medicine, and a passing mention in a list. Garrison is not an authority on who invented streetlights first. Jagged 85 was also known for presentism, the presentation of historical phenomena as precursors to modern ones. We see nowhere a description of what these Cordoban "streetlights" were; in an age before gas mains, were they just public torches? This was a famously literate society, are there contemporary accounts? Anyone who wishes to restore this information should cite it either to a contemporary description, or a specialised book/article that describes exactly what these lights were and how they were different to any torches or flaming beacons in other locations. Unknown Temptation (talk) 20:09, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

references do not state what the article text claims they do
References 3 and 4 (as they stand on February 4, 2012) do not state or confirm that "The first street in the UK to be lit by electric light was Mosley Street, in Newcastle-upon-Tyne. The street was lit by Joseph Swan's incandescent lamp on the 3rd February, 1879", as the Wikipedia article says.

Reference 3 states that "The first incandescent filament electric lamp was exhibited after a lecture given by Uncle Joseph in February, 1879, at the Literary and Philosophical Society lectureroom of Newcastle-upon-Tyne when the late Lord Armstrong took the chair. It created quite a sensation, and when shortly afterwards an electric lamp was placed in a gas lamp in Mosley Street it drew large and enthusiastic crowds. This lamp was made the subject of a lecture, and shown during the lecture at Gateshead, a few nights after that of February, 1879."

This text, written by two nieces of the good Sir Joseph Swan -- which makes the reference as reliable as any teenager blog about someone's uncle, only older --, just says that a lecture about filament lamps was given by him on that 1879, and that "shortly afterwards" ONE electric lamp was placed in "A" gas lamp. AND that "this" one lamp was the subject of a lecture. nowhere does it say anything about streetlighting dates.

References 4 states that "The first houses and streets to be lit by electric light were in Gateshead and Mosley Street, Newcastle in the North-East and perhaps the most famous of these houses was Cragside, which was Lord Armstrong's country residence in the foothills of the Cheviots." There is no year mentioned in this text!

At the end, it says: "Sir Joseph Wilson Swan FRS (1828 - 1914) Chemist, physicist and inventor of the incandescent light bulb which he first demonstrated at a public lecture here on 3 February 1879. Nearby Mosley Street was the first street in the world to be lit by such electric bulbs."

Again, the text does not give a date for the lighting of the street. Only for the lecture. It is a bit hard to believe that the street was lit on the same year the lamp was "invented".

On the other hand, consider this information: "1878: The Holborn Viaduct in London was illuminated by electricity, the first street lighting in Britain, installed by a French contractor who had lit a street in Lyon in 1857, the first in the world." (http://www.camelotintl.com/365_days/december.html)

Of course, if this is true, this changes everything: not only Mosley Street wasn't the first street to be lit with electric lamps in London, BUT also the first city to have electrical street lighting was French, not English...

What we must have in mind is that, on those days of slow communication, news took time to arrive from one place to another. So many of the cities allegedly "first" to have this or that on the 19th century may well have honestly believed they really WERE the first. BUT only one was "the first in the world", only another one "the first in North America", "The first in South America", "the first in Latin America", "the first in the Southern Hemisphere", "the first in Europe", etc.

All these statements must be challenged and checked, verified comparing the data now available to any researcher.

Looking for references in other languages, most of the claims to be the "first", in this article, are wrong.

For the first in Europe, for instance, one finds in http://demeuresdeterroir.org/2011/09/10/beaupairepremiere-ville-eclairee-a-lelectricite/ an article called "Beaupaire:première ville éclairée à l’électricité" (translation: "Beaupaire: first city lit by electricity") and "Louis Michel-Villaz, un génie illuminé" ("Louis Michel-Villaz, a brilliant genius"). Villaz may well be the "French contractor" said to have lit a Lyon city in 1857... long before any English city.

--Betty VH (talk) 01:55, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Increase or improve driver reaction time?
Right now paragraph 8 of the history section says


 * White light sources have been shown to double driver peripheral vision and increase driver brake reaction time at least 25%.

From the context I think that what was intended was "improve" or "decrease", not "increase", driver reaction time. Could someone who knows correct it if necessary? Duoduoduo (talk) 23:43, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Airports?
The last picture under "Purpose" shows light masts around the highway near Toronto Pearson Airport. Underneath it says "High mast lighting is not used near airports due to the negative effects they cause." Which negative effects? And why is it not used near airports, but it still shows on the picture? It seems pretty bogus to me. Either it deserves more explanation (somewhere in the main article) or it should be removed. Jurjenb (talk) 16:31, 27 December 2012 (UTC)


 * High mast lights are defined as "multiple luminaries typically installed in a ring configuration at the top of a pole at least 55 ft tall." The light poles in the second image are conventional poles, not high masts. They appear to be about 40 feet tall, and the lights are not in a ring configuration.


 * I'd suppose the negative effects could be glare during night takeoffs and landings and, depending on how high they are and how close they are to the runway, collision hazards, but I have no reference to back this up.--Triskele Jim 18:05, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Danger section
A post above from 2009 also touches on this issue, but I'd like to re-direct it a bit. Only one of the items in the list of three has a reference. Normally I don't really care, but in this case the second item flies in the face of my experience.

While it may be true that I will *spot* a car at a longer (much?) distance on an unlit road, I am unlikely to collide with it when it is two miles away. I am more likely to collide with it when it is 50 feet away, or closer. And in my experience, glare on unlit roads is dramatically worse than lit ones, to the point where sometimes I have to squint or look away - especially with the newer focussed beams. I find it extremely difficult to believe that the accident rate is any lower due to "long distance spotting", and that the problems with glare are likely far more dangerous.

But it doesn't make a difference what I believe, so I'll point to this comprehensive and easy to read this report that shows a dramatic decrease in all accident types on lit roadways of all types. From my Googling, which requires a bit of dexterity, there are dozens of such studies and they all come to the same conclusion.

Unless someone has evidence to the contrary, I'll remove this section ASAP.

Maury Markowitz (talk) 14:30, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Crime dissuasion not an aspect?
I'll grant you the "Disadvantages" section might be a bit overdone, although I think it is needed. But what about another important aspect of street lighting - I don't have any, but I believe there are stats on the reduction of urban crime when street lighting is installed. Anyone who has info care to add this into the article? Maelli (talk) 09:18, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Some studies I saw said there was no change with or without lighting. AFAIR in darkness picking a target is harder/risky for the attacker, as he cant really see the person/car/thing. Some say it helps, some say it doesnt... have a read:
 * https://keysso.net/community_news/May_2003/improved_lighting_study.pdf
 * https://cops.usdoj.gov/Publications/e1208-StreetLighting.pdf
 * http://www.popcenter.org/library/scp/pdf/07-Atkins_Husain_Storey.pdf
 * http://www.crim.cam.ac.uk/people/academic_research/david_farrington/hors251.pdf
 * http://www.crim.cam.ac.uk/people/academic_research/david_farrington/light.pdf
 * --Eheran (talk) 10:06, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
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Material Unsourced Claims
"white light sources have been shown to double driver peripheral vision and improve driver brake reaction time by at least 25%". This is an oft cited never sourced or supported claim. If it cannot be reliably sourced, ie: by someone other than an LED lighting company, it should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Consiliary (talk • contribs) 17:58, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

High voltage, more light per watt?
"Incandescent lamps were...often operated at high-voltage series circuits. Series circuits were popular since the higher voltage in these circuits produced more light per watt consumed." This is preposterous. N lamps operated in series on N times the individual lamp voltage E consume exactly the same power P and produce the same light as the same N lamps operated in parallel at voltage E: P = (E * N) * I = E * (N * I). It is more likely that the advantage is operation directly from a higher voltage (without a transformer) and use of smaller wire. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.122.49.58 (talk) 14:03, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that Street light controller be merged into Street light. I think that the content in the Street light controller article can easily be explained in the context of Street light, and the Street light controller article is of a reasonable size that the merging of Street light controller will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:50, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
 * There having been no discussion, I merged the pages. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 14:27, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Purpose Section - Issues and Cleanup.
The lead for this sections says: There are three distinct main uses of street lights, each requiring different types of lights and placement. and Misuse of the different types of lights can make the situation worse by compromising visibility or safety.. Both statements do not have citations, though the second statement seems reasonable and a citation could likely be found. The article originally had Beacon lights, Roadway Lights, and Security lighting as the three distinct uses, however it appears Security lighting was removed as out of scope for article: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Street_light&type=revision&diff=543279686&oldid=543168416 leaving the section head out of sync. The recent contributions to the section Cycle path lights and Footpath lights have issues, the former contribution seeming to be about promotion/advertising of Cycle Paths in general rather than direct relationship of Cycle paths to street lights. The Footpath section has a hanging heading. Consensus of how to improve this section most welcome!Djm-leighpark (talk) 17:31, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Europe's first street lights were in Andalusian Cordoba
whilst the rest of Europe was in the dark ages: https://www.islamicity.com/mosque/ihame/Sec5.htm And someone might like to update the article... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.181.251 (talk) 16:40, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

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"Broad streets" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Broad streets. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 1 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 21:57, 1 May 2021 (UTC)