Talk:Superbad/Archive 1

Not based on the writers
I was at the screening/Q&A of the film last night in Boston, and the stars of the film denied that the characters were actually based on the writers, so I removed said references. 24.218.219.195 04:07, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Continuity error
In the opening scene of the film, Seth tells Evan all about the website that he wants to subscribe to (for decency reasons, the name of website will go unnamed), and goes on to describe its themes in full detail. By having to describe the website in full detail, it can be presumed that Evan had never heard of it before, otherwise Seth would not have had to familiarize him with its content.

Later on, Evan describes the events of the past weekend to Becca. In a flashback, Fogell, Evan, and Seth are all shown watching videos on the same website that Seth described in the opening scene.

The main reason why this is a continuity error is because Evan obviously is familiar with the site because he was watching it the previous weekend, yet Seth described it to him earlier that day as if he had never heard of it. It is impossible for Evan, Fogell, and Seth to have watched the site in the time between the opening scene and Evan's flashback because the movie takes place over the course of one day.

It may also be considered a continuity error because in the opening scene Seth states his intentions to subscribe to the website's service yet in the flashback they are obviously partaking in it. This may be attributed to the website offering a free preview, but again, the main focus is on Evan's knowledge of the site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

I always saw it as Seth just being excited about it and describing it more for his own benefit than to explain to Evan. 142.68.197.58 03:14, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Cool? I don't see this as noteworthy. Plus they were drinking too, so maybe Evan did see it but doesn't remember. Tim 10:05, 2 December 2007 (UTC)Sayler

In the movie Evan asked what one that was. He never said he didn't know what it was but I assume out of all the sites they looked it he got lost in what site is what. Tim 1:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)Deathfromace —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.9.33.197 (talk)


 * There is a bonus feature of The Vagtastic Voyage in the special features, where you can watch the entire episode. The only way that anyone would know that the movie that the boys were watching at the party was the Voyage was if you watched that bonus feature. Otherwise, it could have been "Perfect Ten" or any other site they mentioned. Elisa EX PL OS i ON  talk.  13:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

high traffic
The Official Site now links to Wikipedia via the WP globe logo. Be prepared for the traffic. - Mysekurity 19:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Christopher Mintz-Plasse
Why is Christopher Mintz-Plasse page forwarded to this page? Shouldn't he have his own stub at least? Being forwarded onto a movie page is kind of a bad idea... --LocalBandAid02 16:17, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems to be fixed now. Jmlk  1  7  07:44, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

POV
The article states that the Jules character is cute. Obviously, this is a POV statement as beauty cannot be objectively quantified. Article should be changed to conform with all relevant NPOV standards. Read WP:NPOV_Disputes for more information about writing in a NPOV.

172.129.242.119 02:05, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

(sigh).... Jelousy. Secondandonly 22:48, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Response
isnt there usually a section with some quotes from critics and box office performance? Skhatri2005 07:38, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * There most certainly is usually such a section. See 300 (film) for an excellent example of such (that article is a featured article).  I don't have time to write such a thing now, but  is an excellent place to start.  ␄ –Iknowyourider (t c) 13:43, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * As is this, for box office numbers. ␄ –Iknowyourider (t c) 13:55, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The "Reception" portion of the article is ridiculous. There are well over a dozen quotes from various movie reviewers...a simple link to rottentomatoes.com (which is already mentioned) would suffice! As it stands, it reads like an advertisement for the movie. Just a thought. Jdkthehbk (talk) 19:14, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler guideline versus "current fiction"
Recently Wikipedia has tended not to use spoiler tags, which are considered redundant and very much against the sense of the No disclaimers in articles (WP:NDA) guideline. For instance the article about the new Harry Potter novel carries no spoiler tag, and although I placed one there twice it was removed quickly. Instead because it's a recently released work of fiction the article has a tag at the very top, which gives a fairly comprehensive indication of what to expect. I've replaced the spoiler tag from this article too, with a "current fiction" at the top. --Tony Sidaway 13:39, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Intro=Synopsis=Plot
These all say essentially the same thing, though the Plot section has more.128.211.176.137 16:12, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Critical reception
Does every single movie that Superbad has been compared to need to be mentioned? 80% of the section is basically a list of other movies, several of which are mentioned more than once. I mean, there's no way American Pie needs to be mentioned four times. This needs to be trimmed. Pele Merengue 15:55, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a collection of quotes that mention other movies. I've removed the quotes by Ross Anthony and Kam Williams that mentioned American Pie. What do you think? --Pixelface 02:13, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I've also removed the quotes comparing it to Freaks & Geeks, Booty Call, Reefer Madness, and the quote by Jolene Mendez comparing it to American Pie. Do you think the section needs any more trimming? --Pixelface 02:23, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Parallel character structure?
Guys, I love analyzing film as much as the next guy, but that entire section is... a bit of a stretch.

I don't want to start an edit war (especially being anonymous), but I just thought I'd make my thoughts known. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.34.61.73 (talk • contribs) 07:33 27 August 2007

ETA: Looks like the section was deleted. Just noting that it wasn't me who did it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.34.61.73 (talk • contribs) 07:34 27 August 2007

The film provides several clues that the characters Seth and Michaels, as well as Fogell and Slater, are essentially the high school and adult versions of the same person.

Seth’s character is a self-inspired portrayal of one of the film’s co-writers, Seth Rogen, as a senior in high school. Rogen, and fellow co-writer Evan Goldberg, began writing the script when they were 13 because they “just wanted to see if [they] could write a movie." In fact, Rogen intended to play Seth himself back in 2004, while he was working as a writer on Da Ali G Show.  Deciding he looked too old to play a 17 year old, Rogen instead created the character of Officer Michaels, who is effectively the more mature version of the Seth “character” as a fun-loving police officer.  Seth and Michaels share a fondness for immature, sexual banter, and have a similar physique.  For instance, both characters use the saying “suck on my ball sack.”  Both characters also become winded while running; Seth does while walking with Evan to the convenience store, and Michaels does after the shootout.  One scene toward the beginning shows Seth losing his breath on his high school track, and a later one shows Officer Michaels losing Evan (a scene that alludes to the co-dependent, young Seth and Evan’s dealings with separation anxiety).

Fogell and Slater, who both wear eye glasses, display the same droll personalities and make use of nerdy colloquialisms. Slater’s advice to Fogell is never to meet a woman in a bar because she will probably be a “whore” like Slater’s first wife. Both characters, consequently, have a sexual encounter immediately after meeting a woman; Fogell does after meeting Nicola at the party, and Slater does after meeting his first wife in a bar. One moment in particular, toward the end of the film, connects Fogell and Slater together: the scene in which Slater and Michaels apologize to Fogell on the bed for “cockblocking” him. In this scene the camera angle focuses in on the faces of Slater and Fogell, slightly blurring Michaels’s face, as Slater tells Fogell that he reminds him of himself when he was his age. The implication of this parallel character structure being that Fogell’s adventure with the cops, and his amusement with guns, would encourage Fogell to become a police officer himself one day, and thus “become” the Slater character. And presumably the underachieving Seth would follow his friend Fogell into the force, just as Michaels did with Slater, so he can continue "saving" people, as he did with Evan at the party.

The use of parallel character structure highlights the film's reflection on the maturation process.

-Well, that's one way to explain the unusual presence of the cops in this buddy film about high school students —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramblinmindblues (talk • contribs) 14:57, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

-I do believe this is a hefty instance of reading way too far into the plot. Suited for the English classroom, where idle speculation about themes in movies and books that the author never intended abound, but not for wiki, which deals with facts and widely held notions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.78.108.110 (talk) 13:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

MPAA Rating
I know this doesn't have to do with the article but what was the "fantasy/comic violent image" mentioned in the MPAA rating? Was it one of the pictures of the penises? - Spyke1077 18:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Probably the fantasy violence was the store security guard cutting Seth's throat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.143.238.216 (talk) 02:57, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Plot Summary
It seems that the plot summary deals with the two main characters Seth and Evan, but McLovin is very much as apart of the two main characters as Seth and Evan. It just seems that with Mclovin's such high status as a character in the movie that you could possibly talk about him a little bit more, especially in the bar scene(s). *I know McLovin is Foggel or Faggel if your Seth. It is just easier to remember McLovin.

Trivia or Notes Section?
There is an interesting point of origin I discovered last night that should be included on the Superbad page. I don't know too much about editing the actual pages, so I"ll leave that to the experts. Here's the info:

Obviously, the drawings of male anatomy are a key gag in the film, and at the end, we see dozens of hilarious drawings. In the extras portion of the Undeclared series DVD, there is a Q & A portion in which Judd Apatow and others mention such drawings. Clearly, this talk was long before production of Superbad started. It turns out that the origins of the penis drawings are a clever technique used by Apatow to induce genuine laughter from his actors. When filming, there are at least a few penis cartoon drawings on hand and if a laugh is needed, someone will hold up the drawing so the actor/s can see it. Thus, real laughter is produced. All of the actors laughed about this story and it is interesting that this bit of reality finally found its way onto the screen...much to all of our delight!

Anyway, I thought this story would be an interesting factoid to include on the Superbad page. If anyone wants to verify this, go to disc #4 of Undeclared and look under Q&A. This section is very long. I think the penis drawing story comes up during the second hour. In fact, there are many other interesting points made during this session that predicate other Apatow projects. —Preceding unsigned comment added by I13moe (talk • contribs) 17:58, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Plot
That plot has got to be cut, it is ridiculously long and full of OR. The plot is: ''Fogell tries to buy alcohol for Jules party but is assulted and rides with two cops for most of the night. Seth is knocked over and takes to a party with Evan by the driver of the car, where they attempt to gain alcohol. All three are reunited and take the alcohol to Jules party, the cops interupt Fogell having sex, and Seth and Evan leave the party after failing to have sex with Jules and Becca respectively. Seth and Evan stay at Evan's house before running into Jules and Becca in the mall the following morning.'' Anything else is just repeating jokes or original research. Darrenhusted 17:14, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Cultural Reference
Should the article mention somewhere, probably in the beginning that most of the characters are jewish, even police officers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nadyes (talk • contribs) 08:27, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If that was a question the answer is no. Darrenhusted 16:00, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

The characters are not specified at Jews (in real life, only Jonah Hill and Seth Rogen are Jews), and that's not important to the story anyway. Neither Bill Hader (Officer Slater) nor his character are Jews. ChesterG 05:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Gay Overtones
No mention of the gay overtones to this movie? It's mentioned in half the reviews and the plot section glosses right over one of the main characters seemingly being infatuated with the other, which is sort of odd JayKeaton 10:57, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Time (magazine)s Richard Corliss said "the quasi-gay subtext is so obvious, it's the love that dares to shriek its name" [], Stephen Farber of The Hollywood Reporter (he is already quoted in this article for something else) says "The friendship of Seth and Evan has homoerotic undertones, and there's a funny scene where they declare their undying love for each other. But because this is an American movie, don't expect the frankness of Alfonso Cuaron's Y tu mamá también, which took the close friendship of two horny teenage pals to its logical conclusion. In Superbad, the lovefest between the best friends is strictly platonic, which makes it nonthreatening to the crowds at the multiplex" []. David Denby (film critic) of The New Yorker says "there’s a gentle and entirely intentional homoerotic strain—never acted upon—running through the Seth-Evan friendship" [].JayKeaton 11:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand why everyone says this movie has gay undertones/overtones. It's about two friends that are guys. What guy friends don't have homoerotic undertones in their relationship? You get real tight with your homeboy and you've been hanging out for 10 years and he's going to leave - of course you're going to be like Seth (or you could hold it in). You have to be really repressed to say you've never felt like that with one of your buddies who moved away (or something similar, like you moved away). It's not called "gay;" it's called "friendship." I don't think gay overtones should be brought up in the main article. It's opinion and not fact. Wiki is for facts. ChesterG 09:44, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The fact is a lot of reviewers picked up on, or saw it as as having gay overtones. JayKeaton 17:39, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I have seen several reviews that mention "gay overtones" and also just saw the film-- and personally saw no gay overtones at all, just two friends. Such are the times we live in. "Gay overtones" are seen in just about everything. I came across a "critique" online about the homoerotic relationship between Frodo and Sam in LOTR a few weeks ago, and was already aware of lots of "gay overtone" speculation there too. Tolkien, who used the character study of the two as an example of the idealized Anglo-Saxon conception of the "master-servant" relationship, would have been disgusted, or laughed his ass off, or both, to see LOTR used as another example of the desparate shoe-horning that contemporary media and culture engage in over all things sexual. David S169.253.4.21 16:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Black Comedy?
Could this be classified as a black comedy movie? I mean, it has a lot of alcohol references, and also some penis scenes. And there are some tits discussions in the movie. Well, could it be a black comedy movie? If not tell me why not, I know source is needed so don't state the obvious. If I wouldn't know that source is needed I wouldn't discuss this, but instead add it to the article right away. TheBlazikenMaster 10:37, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely certain what tits, dicks and alcohol have to do with black comedy. -Chunky Rice 13:25, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

No, this isn't a black comedy. A good example of black comedy would be The Ladykillers with Tom Hanks, where the killing of an old woman is portrayed comedically. '' black comedy –noun comedy that employs morbid, gloomy, grotesque, or calamitous situations in its plot.'' ChesterG (talk) 06:15, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

=DANGERDOOM=

Man, did you see that DANGERDOOM logo everywhere? It was awesome! Oh, and shouldn't that be mentioned? Marvelrulez 22:15, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Superbad (2).jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Dickhead Larry
Some person thinks it's clever to insert the words "Dickhead Larry" into this article. It is not. Could someone please lock this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pygmypony (talk • contribs) 22:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I second that. I just had to revert the title of it again. Tithonfury (talk) 22:28, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know where to "insert" this or whatever, but someone changed what was originally written to "crap film written by Ima wiener and nipples mcfinnagin". It is at the beginning of the article. Kinda lame that, but meh =/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.218.207.146 (talk) 21:58, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Puppies?
At the end of the movie, do Evan and Becca go off to buy puppies (as the article currently states)?? I could be wrong, but I thought they were looking for a new comforter for Jules's bed (that Becca barfed on). If that's so, the "puppies" comment is vandalism and needs to be changed. 69.236.87.51 (talk) 19:32, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

comforter. not puppies. Pygmypony (talk) 13:25, 22 January 2008 (UTC)