Talk:Tarik O'Regan

Composers Project Assessment
I have assessed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. My assessment (demotion to Start class) is on the comment page. If you have any questions, feel free to respond there, here, or on my talk page. --  Magic ♪piano 14:46, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Article is still deficient from composer perspective; most of the issues I outlined in my review of two years ago still exist. Thus demoting composer/contemporary rating back to Start.  Magic ♪piano 14:12, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Deleting material on this page
I have restored the above entry relating to the project assessment, which was removed without explanation. Entries on talk pages should not normally be deleted by other editors.Straw Cat (talk) 12:53, 27 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Not sure why you needed to: user 66.108.11.17 reverted the deletion (originally made in error) in revision 404391789. Please look at the revision history before posting needlessly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.11.17 (talk) 16:03, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I did however look at your posting history, and noticed that all edits you have made to Wikipedia with one exception are to this article. Clearly you seem especially interested in this composer.


 * So, you will already know that at least two other editors have commented in the composer project assessment referenced above that this article resembles a promotional rather than an encyclopedic one. You removed a tag about this. Nevertheless the relentlessly uncritically hyperbolic tone and content is both alien to WP, and off-putting, and does the talented Mr O'Regan no favours with a casual reader. Detailed suggestions for improvement are in the assessment. Why not make a start on that? Musical influences, childhood? Straw Cat (talk) 23:59, 27 December 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, well I've tried to do as you both suggest, finding what I can on the internet and making it more "encyclopaedic". I've tried to answer the summary points and detailed suggestions made by  Magic ♪piano.


 * Yes, of course I am interested in this composer, hence trying to maintain this entry. One thing worth mentioning is that music publishers and composers have a slightly different relationship to book publishers and authors. Often the publisher of a living composer has the only verifiable list of works, list of commissions, list of broadcast dates etc. If you claim that music publisher websites are entirely "NPOV", and thus unusable, then almost all living composer Wikipedia entries would need to be re-written from scratch.


 * Anyway, I think this is an improvement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.11.17 (talk) 00:59, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


 * ' Magic ♪piano suggests a works list, but I don't want to copy the works list manually from the publisher site in case you consider this to be NPOV and delete it!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.11.17 (talk) 01:44, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Just to be clear, before today's edits, there had been some improvement. I was uncertain whether the information needed for proper encyclopedic coverage is publicly available -- it appears on the basis of today's edits that some of it is, although much of it seems (unsurprisingly, given his age) to be from interviews with the subject.  A brief search for reviews of O'Regan's works turns up generally favorable reviews, which is probably a good thing for him, but also makes it difficult to assess whether publishing a lot of positive spin here is a Good Thing (this is where it is hard to avoid accusations of WP:PEACOCK and/or WP:NPOV).
 * One key complaint that you are perhaps confused on in my commentary is this: a one-sentence summary of his "style" is not particularly useful. Does he write orchestral music? chamber music? for what instrument combinations?  does he write for electronic or other "exotic" instruments (vis a vis traditional European classical music)?  Compare his music to that of other composers; is his music like that of Stockhausen? Rachmaninov? Frank Zappa?
 * Commentary on form: the form of this article reads almost like a CV, not an encyclopedia article. I could rewrite Philip Glass into this format, to its detriment; can you rewrite this article into the form of that one? (I use the Glass article as an example of a modern living composer article that isn't bad; it has its flaws, but will suffice for this exercise.  Another article where I worked with the subject to craft a reasonably neutral article is Pedro Vilarroig.) I'm also concerned that the form of this article is possibly being biased so that sites that reuse WP content by extracting the first part of the article are getting content intended to promote (in this case the "current project").
 * I see no problem with copying a works list from the publisher's site, BTW.  Magic ♪piano 01:58, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


 * OK! Brief responses and an "action plan":
 * I have tried to use "strong" third party sources (i.e. national broadcasters and national newspapers) where information has been gleaned from the subject being interviewed.
 * I will try and fill out the style section as per your suggestion, but I would feel uncomfortable suggesting that a composer "sounds" like another composer, as this is so subjective and probably not NPOV (my Stockhausen may be your Zappa, for example).
 * The Philip Glass article is pretty good, but I'm not sure how that format would work for someone who is in their early 30s. Are you - in essence - suggesting a chronological entry?
 * I can remove the "current projects" bit, but (as far as I can see) this represents his first opera, so quite an important thing to be listed somewhere in the entry.
 * Do list any other suggestions, and I'll try and get to them! --66.108.11.17 (talk) 03:56, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you. It would also be useful to state under whom he studied at Oxford and Cambridge, assuming he studied music at both. Does he belong or subscribe to any particular school or group of composers? Straw Cat (talk) 13:16, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Comparative statements are sometimes made by reviewers, or the subject in interviews; your opinion on the matter is original research. In re formatting: just because someone is young doesn't mean one can't write chronologically, and in prose, about them.  The (over)use of bulleting and lists is what makes this article look most like a CV.  Magic ♪piano 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Plans for revision

 * Add works list
 * Re-work material into a chronological/prose style
 * Re-work lead
 * Add suggested items (teachers/"school" of composition) etc
 * Re-work "critical reception" to avoid WP:PEACOCK, although I think we're safe on WP:NPOV as these stem from a great variety of international sources of excellent repute.

Much of this new information will have to come from a printed composer brochure, which his publisher (published by the publisher itself) sent me recently. But there may be verifiable on-line sources too.--66.108.11.17 (talk) 17:28, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
 * OK: I have started on a works list. Before I go on, are there any problems or suggestions? Is there a way of making an "initial sort" for the list? For example, it might be useful to have the list sorted initially by premiere date.
 * I'm not sure how to sort the conductor list by surname, although I'd like it listed, intially, in the first name/surname format (as it is now)
 * Also, I have added a references section (primarily to source the works list), but I have no idea how this formatting works. It doesn't look right to me...--66.108.11.17 (talk) 06:14, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It looks OK to me so far. See the Sort template for how to introduce sorting keys into tables where the key differs from the text (as it does with things like dates). The "initial sort" will be the order in which entries appear in the article source; I recommend a chronological listing.  Web sites used as references are best formatted using the cite web template.  See also Citing sources.  Magic ♪piano 15:20, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you: I have fixed these issues using Sort and cite web. Do you think reverse-chronological order is more useful to a casual reader for the discography and works list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.11.17 (talk) 20:28, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Revisions undertaken
I've read through much of the above and have tried to revise the article as per suggestions by User 66.108.11.17,  Magic ♪piano and Straw Cat, especially the following:
 * 1) Added works list
 * 2) Re-worked material into a chronological/prose style
 * 3) Re-worked lead to avoid WP:PEACOCK
 * 4) Added suggested items (teachers/"school" of composition) etc
 * 5) Re-worked "critical reception" to avoid WP:PEACOCK as much as possible, trying to keep WP:NPOV

I think it reads pretty well now...108.41.125.31 (talk) 02:14, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * This is a much improved article. I've nominated it for Good Article review.Grovereaper (talk) 14:16, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 07:39, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Mention this event?
Mention this? Agnus Tarik O'Regan: Agnus Dei. Sciencia58 (talk) 21:36, 13 May 2023 (UTC)