Talk:Temple University/Archive 1

Page Reworking
Lets face it, this article is a mess. I am taking it upon myself to fix the page. Grammar, organization, and content all need to be revised. If anyone has any suggestions, please take it upon yourself to let me know, or even do it yourself. BTW, I am a Temple Undergraduate student. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pjennings424 (talk • contribs) 16:25, 3 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Nice job, one thing I suggest is to always use an edit summary. This is important when you're making a series of edits. --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 16:46, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Date Established
The article states that the university was founded in 1884 however didn't become known as Temple College until 1888. It is shown as "Incorporated in 1888" all over the campus as well as on the logo picture in the info box, however is listed at 1884 2 lines below it in the same info box. Which date should be used? I would imagine 1888.Allitalien 03:14, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Notable Achievements
WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS SECTION??? Shouldn't this be about notable TEMPLE UNIVERSITY achievements, such as honors, rankings, etc. and not achievements of its alumni... it makes having a NOTABLE ALUMNI section extremely redundant. I am all for listing the MAJOR notable alumni on the main page and then including the link to the full list, however if it is to be redone it should be more orderly.Allitalien 03:14, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Japan

 * At Tokyo it says the Temple University is a university in Tokyo, Japan. /130.237.115.228 13:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * There is a campus in Tokyo. There's also one in Rome. Metasquares 03:07, 26 August 2006 (UTC))

POV

 * this has no place in a wikipedia entry. furthermore the page is completely devoid of any sources. i have tagged it POV but i think the page requires alot of cleanup including removal of original research--modesty 21:18, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Well the pov tag is out of place. Stating that an article is "little more than an advertisement" w/o point out what you mean by that is not enough to tag the article. Also the statement about the t is not enough as the is not a enough of a pov statement to say the the whole article is POV, nor is the idea that it devoid of references, which while a problem is not enough to say is POV. I'll put a check and copy edit tag up, as well as a reference section, but before you tag pov please read WP:POV, and WP:NPOV. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 05:43, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Also the edit that you added to the article could be said of the same as the article you complained about, it is unsourced, could be considered original research, and is just as pov as what the rest of the article stands. Granted i think this is room for improvement in the language of the article but i would be leary to say that it is POV. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 05:47, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


 * thanks for leaving it up long enough to let me take it down. i see your points and i removed the pov check --155.247.166.28 17:10, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I am guessing that you are the person that posted the statment above mine, one of the problems with IP editing is tracking edits by users. I thank you, i apprecheate that you took the time to read over my points and took them under consideration. Whiel you did remove the tag i am going to put it back up for at least the next xeveral days to see if their are editors that might think otherwise. If their are no further objections i'll take it back down over the weekend. As for tags their are others that are of use to have points like yours expressed that are better then useing th pov tag, at least in my opinion, you can take a gander at the tags at WP:CR. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 04:13, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Residence Halls
Changed some of the wording around on Residency Halls and also tried to reduce some of the redundency in the paragraph. Hopefully it satisfies some of the criticisms that are listed below but it still could use some work. I was thinking of an external page may be best to explain each individual dorm. Also, for some reason each of them uses the full name of the dorm, which NOBODY uses...

Dining
I included some information on the cafeteria in the section and wasn't sure if it warrented a new header or maybe sub-heading. Allitalien 23:04, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Criticisms

 * The Criticisms section has a broken link as reference and seems to be a small-scale bickering type-of-thing? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tmcw (talk • contribs).
 * Humm, dont know what to tell you, though i do agree. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 05:44, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

ummmm, recently graduated from temple, and this article (while it covers the history pretty well as i understand it) completely fails to describe temple in any way. in fact if memory serves the wording in most of the sections (dorms, student life especially) are exactly like the temple produced materials they shoved down my throat every day since i applied. to clarify i'm saying the article was written by an employee of temple, probably under the direction of temple's administration.

to be specific the student life section is an out right lie (aside to references to specific buildings existing). Temple has little or now campus life to speak of. first off most of its students are commuters (last estimate i heard was 70%). even students who live on or close to campus usually complain about having to go all the way across to city to shop, go to a restaurant, or see most movies (the movie theater is small and usually doesn't play flicks until well after they've left normal theaters). while there are numerous temple sponsored activity's, and the SAC, IBC, and a few bars they do very little to keep most students around campus.

as for the dorms sections: how about describing the actual dorms where there are and what there like. and the line about extending learning experiences beyond the class room is straight out of admissions brochures. The list of neologisms is utter bunk to. most of those are official acronyms used by temple to label the buildings and institutions in question (hence the students use them. SAC (actually still in use as opposed to "former"), TSG, MCPB, UDC, CSS, TECH Center, IBC, and THEO are all in this category. noone i have ever met has used "the code" (including alumni who graduated as far back as 1972). similarly, center city is not a temple neologism. it is in fact the name used through out the philadelphia metro area to refer to the heart of the city. its such a common term that it appears on MAPS OF THE DAMNED CITY. its a neighborhood name similar to old city and south philly, etc; or soho, hell kitchen and midtown in manhattan.

24.185.239.254 06:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC) RF 12/11/2006

I'm NOT a Temple alum, but I have to agree with the points raised by the above poster; the section about residence halls really does read like it was written by a Temple employee. HandsomeSam 19:56, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I am a current Temple undergrad, and i'd like to vouch for the original persons' comments...

also, there is no mention of the History of temple university...as in, why is it called TEMPLE university and not "university of north philadelphia" or the like? Why is there a building called "The Baptist Temple" which says, 'founded in 1880' (dont quote me here), 'and over 50,000 men and women trained for HIM'?" (found on corner of Berks Mall and Broad St). To hear the current administration, Temple was never a religious school and the Baptist Temple is never spoken of (which is obviously false)... Jesusfreakz85 0:08, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm a temple alum and I'd have to agree the article is a little white washed. Also there's no mention in the list of notables that Ted Bundy attended for 1 semester as a theater major. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.141.14.126 (talk) 19:58, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

--- I'm a Temple alum too and it looks like every other college and university page on wikipedia. I don't know why Temple is being called out for having info that's taken from websites, articles, etc. That's what all other higher ed entries have. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eminbear (talk • contribs) 18:01, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

beury beach?
i've been a student here for going on 4 years and I have never ever heard that. Usually it's just referred to as the Bell Tower.

Fair use rationale for Image:Tempowlslogo.gif
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Importance
I took down the importance rating because I see no way that this article can be of Top importance to any of the wikiprjects associated with it. If you are a member of either project please re-rate this article's importance. Acidskater 16:18, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Violence
Should it be noted that temple is not..safe. I mean, its basically integrated into several poor minority neighborhoods, and there are often shootings and murders in the adjacent areas. Not to mention an abnormal amount of armed muggings and beatings. noteworthy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.78.160.2 (talk) 01:59, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I know what you mean, but I'd say it should be included only if you can find some credible research that compares it to other universities in the area, otherwise it's just going to be POV. Also, Temple has seven(?) campuses, you might want to make sure you make clear what campus you refer to. Anything off campus should probably go in some sort of "North Philadelphia" article, then referenced from the section here. fintler (talk) 18:28, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Public status
Sentences like this:


 * Usually, tuition at state-related universities is higher than the tuition at Pennsylvania's public universities due to the independence of the institution.

are kind of odd. Temple is pretty usually described as a public school. Obviously, it's not public in the same sense as IUP, or what not, but given the wide variety in the level of specific state control in public schools in different states, it seems problematic to characterize it as something other than "public" - the Carnegie Endowment calls it (and Penn State, and Pitt) public, for instance. So does Temple itself: "As a comprehensive public research university, our 34,000 students can choose from 8 campuses and 300 academic degree programs." I would question further the factual nature of this statement. Mightn't higher tuition at Penn State, Pittsburgh, and Temple be at least partially related to them being generally considered better schools than the PASSHE schools? Can we provide a citation for the claim that it is their partially private nature that makes them more expensive? john k (talk) 19:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

There is more discussion of these issues at Talk:University of Pittsburgh, if anyone is interested. john k (talk) 02:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

On-campus safety escorts
I have removed, multiple times, the following text:

''Additionally, Temple University does not offer a "police escort" after dark. Although Temple canceled their escort service years ago, it is still advertised on their website. Dialing the advertised phone number leads to out of service phone lines or unrelated services. Other Philadelphia-area schools do offer a security escort, such as University of Pennsylvania, Drexel University , Saint Joseph's University , and Villanova University .''

''Recently, Temple has introduced the TUrDoor shuttle, an expanded shuttle service intended to take students within certain set boundaries nearby the campus to their doors. However, this is a not an escort service. Students who do not feel safe walking from their off-campus apartments to campus at night still do not have any other options.''

The material clearly violates our policies against original research and neutral point of view. If reliable third-party materials can be found that offer the same criticisms then it might be acceptable to include them in the article. But we can not engage in original research. Nor can we use this article as a means to promote a particular point of view or advocate for action or change. --ElKevbo (talk) 12:36, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Academics
The note under the list of Temple University Colleges correctly states that there are 17 at Temple, but only 16 are actually listed. The one missing is the School of Communications and Theater. Dean Concetta Stewart.

68.81.180.187 (talk) 13:07, 16 June 2009 (UTC) Tom Jacobson

Labor relations
Rewrote section in neutral POVOwlTownGown (talk) 19:29, 11 September 2009 (UTC) Is this worthy of inclusion and if so, can it be shortened and written in a NPOV way? Thank you, --70.181.44.124 (talk) 21:40, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. --Tom (talk) 18:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

ill work on shorting it, give me a few days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Billz1936 (talk • contribs) 00:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

This section as restored by Falcon8765 does not represent a neutral point of view; it is a synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position. It contains incendiary language and unsubstantiated claims throughout, and there are too many factual inaccuracies and one-sided interpretations (many of which are sourced to other opinion pieces) to edit. I suggest it should be removed entirely. Also, the same entry has been posted multiple times to Temple President Ann Weaver Hart's entry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Weaver_Hart. An objective review, please? OwlTownGown (talk) 19:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that the section needs to be rewritten, but I'm not so sure it should be deleted when it has several reliable references. Falcon8765 (talk) 21:37, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. I don't know enough about the topic to do a good rewrite/edit but it (a) appears to be important and notable but (b) is covered with undue weight and POV in the current version of the article.  --ElKevbo (talk) 21:45, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Alumni
I took David Hasselhoff off Alumni. I'm going to look through for others. Keytud (talk) 13:12, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Stephen Starr didn't go to Temple, but I couldn't find where he did so I left it. Keytud (talk) 13:24, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Rape at Temple
Someone should include at least a few of the high profile rape cases at Temple. Like the one that happened on one of the upper floors of Gladfelter or Anderson Hall (I don't remember which one it was) or the gang rape charges going against one of the frats. http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/22/nyregion/campus-life-temple-2-reports-of-rape-prompt-university-to-examine-policy.html Keytud (talk) 13:20, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad that you included a case that happened in 1989. I am currently at Temple and overall the campus itself is just as safe as any of the major universities (LaSalle, Penn, Drexel, and St Joe's) in Philadelphia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.247.33.224 (talk) 14:13, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Editors need to understand this is not an advertisement for Temple
I've been going through as best as I can to remove the excessive praise for Temple and all of it's "wonderful" history, but more continues to creep back in and more needs to be removed. I'm tempted to tag the article as WP:POV, but it's right near the borderline right now. Please understand that this is not a site to extol the virtues of the university--it is a place for verified, neutral, encyclopedic information. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:58, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Start-class
I think it's pretty obvious that this is not a B-class article at the moment. If you actually look at the criteria for B-class, this article fails four of the six criteria at WP:UNI/ASSESS. The article is NOT well-referenced, it does NOT reasonably cover the topic (since a lot of prose was removed due to copyright violations), it does NOT have a defined structure whatsoever, and it is clearly NOT well-written. There are supporting materials (although they couple be improved, like the random picture of Barack Obama), and the last criterion does necessarily apply. I have gone through about 1/3 of the article and tagged specific areas where issues need to be addressed. Looking at the C-class criteria, it comes close, but the Start-class criteria seems to apply better. Specifically, a lot of the prose is unencyclopedic (lots of trivial and essay-like information). As it states, this article has a "usable amount of good content but is weak in many areas", and while it "[p]rovides some meaningful content, [...] the majority of readers will need more." For example, the section about the residence halls is almost twice as long as the section on the university's history. The article is not too far from C-class, (just a few minor copyedits, citations, and cleanup), but it still needs a decent amount of work before it's near B-class. Yes, the article is long and detailed, but length does not necessarily justify the article's class. I removed quite a bit of content as I was tagging the article, and there is much more that needs to be removed. – Dream out loud (talk) 14:13, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

notability
I would strongly urge any partisans for this university to start with finding the notable academics employed by the university, and adding their names to the list. The measure of any great university is the quality of their educators, so its a damn shame that the article here had a subsection called "alumni", none for faculty, and the link was to "university people" so the word faculty didnt even appear here. the list of people is missing a lot of faculty, has many nonnotable alumni, and the best the university can present as a "face" of the university is Bill Cosby, who dropped out after getting a sports scholarship, and got an honorary degree for life experience. not to slight Mr cosby at all, but is that REALLY the best representative of temple?50.193.19.66 (talk) 17:05, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * reviewed the faculty and alumni, and Bob Saget is the most high profile person to work or graduate from there. sorry, bill.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 02:03, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Laura H Carnell (1867-1929)
Laura H Carnell devoted 34 years to the up building of Temple University. Acting dean 1897 until 1905 when she became dean of the Temple University Corporation. Associate president on 1925. I wonder if she should be mentioned in this article.

External links modified
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External links modified
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Editing this ugly article
I shuffled around, deleted and combined many portions of this article to give a much cleaner and presentable organization. Let me know what can be improved further (other than the history section which will be expanded eventually). Paharara (talk) 21:17, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

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Triangle Apartments
http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/temple-area/triangle-apartments-demolished-on-north-broad-street-football-stadium-coming-next says they were demo'ed in 2015 WhisperToMe (talk) 00:45, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Former student housing
Re: this revert, I strongly disagree that the content is of dubious encyclopedic value.
 * 1. When one sees a list of campus buildings, there is an expectation of seeing historical ones. Wikipedia is not all about the now: it is partly there to document history. Student newspapers do cover demolitions of older buildings, and the development and/or redevelopment of a campus is something our readers want to see.
 * 2. School zoning in relation specifically to university housing for students with dependent children is of consideration : Florida State University did a feasibility study on Alumni Village (which has since been torn down) and the perceived quality of the local schools was discussed. When the University of Texas considered tearing down its grad student family housing, articles from the Austin American Statesman discussed possible ramifications for Mathews Elementary as it would have lost many if its non-US citizen students. When discussing the vitality of a community for families with children, schools matter. They are not unimportant details for these complexes.

Now it is true that as per WP:WEIGHT content should be considered based on the importance to the subject, but WEIGHT concerns are easily dealt with by making a daughter article about campus buildings and/or dormitories WhisperToMe (talk) 13:54, 7 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your response. As to your point (1), I could see adding back the section on Peabody Hall due to its historic significance of once occupying land that was the site of one of the founder's original homes (but note that the reference for that is a dead link (Error 404) and needs to be re-cited.) As to point (2), I won't object if the Triangle Apartment section is re-introduced after a severe editorial pruning: its overly detailed content is of interest only to a very limited readership and, as you point out, more appropriate for a daughter article.  Contributor321 (talk) 16:28, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! I'm more than happy to make a daughter article with specifics on the campus! WhisperToMe (talk) 16:47, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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RfC about the description used in the lead of CSHE universities
There is an ongoing Request for Comments on Talk:University of Pittsburgh about whether the term "public" or "state-related" should be used to describe universities that are members of the Commonwealth System of Higher Education. Since this is also relevant to Temple, your comments would be welcome there. --Drevolt (talk) 01:34, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

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RfC on "public" vs. "state-related"
Hi (and anyone else interested): There's an ongoing RfC, which you can find here, on whether the word "public" or "state-related" should be used to describe the university in the lead. Rather than changing "state-related" back to "public", please participate in the RfC discussion there. --Drevolt (talk) 00:07, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

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