Talk:Tennessee/Archive 1

- Wondering how to edit this State Entry? The WikiProject U.S. states standards might help. - I question the addition of Fort Campbell as a Tennessee town. As the Wiki article on it makes clear, the official and populated areas are in Kentucky. I don't think mere acreage on the south side of the line qualifies. RivGuySC 03:14, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. Likewise, Fort Benning has a dropzone in Alabama, but everone knows Fort Benning is in Georgia. Rklawton 07:14, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Former capitals
Jonesborough was the first capital, not Knoxville. I think Knoxville may have been the first state capital. --ZekeMacNeil 16:28, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Jonesborough was the capital of the "Lost State of Franklin," and is Tennessee's oldest city, chartered in 1779. As of statehood in 1796, Knoxville was made the first state capital of Tennessee. Drsowell 03:06, 28 January 2006 (UTC)


 * There is a town, which is now in Montgomery County, TN, that lacked two single votes being the State Capital. This town is Palmyra, TN between Clarksville and Cumberland City, which is in Stewart County, TN.  Tennessee was called Tennessee County of North Carolina until becoming a state in 1796 or so I've read.  --Bookofsecrets 04:27, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Memphis Pic
Y'all need a Memphis pic to add to the city pics on the page.--Zereshk 30 June 2005 20:13 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the last Memphis picture that was on here was copyrighted so it had to be removed. Kaldari 30 June 2005 20:28 (UTC)

Too many lists
This article has way too many lists, not enough narrative. Kaldari 23:38, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree, which is why I have added a cleanup tag to the top of the article. This article has very little information, and is mostly just a bunch of wikilink and lists; not very encyclopedic...Civil Engineer III 20:38, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I moved a list to the bottom that was in the middle, but that's very true. Now it reads as a brief narrative into a mass of links.  I'm not sure how to clean it up. TKE 03:37, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Department of Energy/Oak Ridge reference
Under History, the statement:

During World War II, Oak Ridge was selected as a U.S. Department of Energy national laboratory, one of the principal sites for the Manhattan Project's production and isolation of weapons-grade fissile material.

is factually inaccurate. The U.S. Department of Energy was not established until 1977 by the Carter Administration. Recommend striking or correcting the statement. --Kcarlin 16:53, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Ancestry
"The five largest ancestry groups in Tennessee are: African American (17.5%), American (16.4%), Irish (9.3%), English (9.1%), German (8.3%)."

American? As in Native-American? Did I miss the memo on dropping the native?


 * That information was originally added by BSveen back in October 2004 without any infomation as to sources or rationale. The orginal version that he added actually said:
 * "The 5 largest ancestry groups in Tennessee are American (21.2%), African American (16.4%), Irish (11.3%), English (11.0%), German (10.1%)."
 * If he can't give an explanation of where the data comes from, I would suggest just removing it from the article. Kaldari 00:48, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 2000 Census data: page 6

"The five largest ancestry groups in Tennessee are: American, (17.3); African American (13.0), Irish (9.3%), English (9.1%), German (8.3%)." American does NOT mean Indian. Rjensen 01:54, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I have edited the wording of the statement to more accurately reflect what was shown in the Census report. Kaldari 02:27, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Taxes
The suggestion that the overall tax burden is low in Tennessee due to the lack an income tax is clearly NPOV: that's what anti-income tax advocates claim, but it's not a factual statement. With our incredibly high sales tax, the majority of Tennesseeans pay more in taxes than we would with an income tax and a reduced sales tax. 68.47.234.131 22:28, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * fixed. Kaldari 08:43, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

What's Left for Cleanup
I'd like to see the educational and sports information moved to separate lists, but that's discretionary. I think the main thing is if the list of books is whittled down; there's plenty of books on the state but they don't all need to be listed. Other than that the mainspace is good now. TKE 01:01, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * We have a deal. T   K   E  05:43, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Political section
I'm not sure that a detailed statement about where each party is strong belongs in the encylopedia, at all, but if so it needs cleaned up, this statement is somewhat misleading. "Democrats are very strong in metropolitan Memphis, Nashville, and Chattanooga. The Democratic Party is also relatively strong in most of Middle Tennessee and West Tennessee north of Memphis." Joncnunn 20:27, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the word "very" should be striken. (Non-enclopedic)
 * The Memphis metropolian area is politicaly heavily polarized along racial lines. Consquently, the suburbs & exburbs are strongly Republican and most of the city is strongly Democratic.
 * Yes, Democrats are strong in Metro Nashville with the exception of Williamson and Sumner counties compared to other cities suburbs.
 * In Chattanooga's case, the city and inner suburbs tend Democratic while the remainer of the metro tends Republican.
 * The West Tennessee north of Memphis should probably be changed to Northwest Tennesee. Jackson, TN tends to vote Republican.
 * The following section on Republican strength should specificly mention Knoxville.
 * Yeah, I think something should be written about the suburbs of Nashville. I don't know how Memphis is but Willamson is something like 80% Republican. Then again, people who work for their money and don't want it stolen usually are. Volksgeist 20:20, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Please don't be offensive

 * As a Tennessean I can honestly say that I am insulted an offended at the lead paragraph. All in the historians in Western Middle Tennessee know that Governor Isham G. Harris of Paris, Tennessee nicknamed Tennessee the Volunteer State.  Additionally, Tennessee is in the Southeastern United States of America.  Simply saying it is a Southern State is offensive.  I am deeply sincere in saying this.  Please don't be offensive.  --Bookofsecrets 01:35, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm also from Tennessee, but I am not offended by the opening paragraph in the least. I believe I would be hard pressed to find many people who would be. Most Tennesseeans do think of themselves as Southerners. Also, in school I was tought that the state does get its nickname from the War of 1812 and that seems to be what other sources indicate as well (although my search was brief.) --JNAllen 19:18, 29 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I suggest you study your Tennessee history a bit more carefully. Governor Isham G. Harris, positively, did nickname Tennessee the Volunteer State.  That came a long time after the War of 1812.  It does not concern me that you are not offended.  I attempted to smooth it out to say Southeastern United States which is geographical and not cultural.  This article should only have geographical bearing as far as locale in the United States of America is concerned.  Presently it is strictly cultural and as far as I'm concerned totally unacceptable.  --Bookofsecrets 23:42, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Geographical and not Cultural

 * The lead paragraph is not NPOV. Southern is cultural.  Southeastern is geographical.  The latter would be much more appropriate and acceptable.  --Bookofsecrets 00:40, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * This article concerns the state of Tennessee - a geopolitical entity with a defined geographic location. Hence, Southeastern in the lead paragraph is not only acceptable; it is the only logical choice.  Rklawton 07:22, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I have edited the lead paragraph for NPOV purposes. It is currently more appropriate.  Thanks, --Bookofsecrets 06:12, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * yes but the state has been Southern since 1796 and will probably remain that way for a spell. Rjensen 06:18, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It is a Southeastern State. In today's society Southern is cultural and not geographical.  Please keep this article NPOV.--Bookofsecrets 06:29, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You need sources for that assertion. The state is included in every listing of the southern states. Rjensen 06:36, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It is also included in every listing of Southeasterns states, thereby making the designation Southeastern significantly more accurate. Rklawton 07:25, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It is not appropriate. Today Southern is used for cultural destinction and has racist overtones.  This article is becoming controversial.  --Bookofsecrets 06:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * If Bookofsecrets wants to be taken seriously he must have some sources. otherwise his own opinions count as "original research" and are not allowed in Wiki. Start with this: ONE serious reference book that says Tenn is not southern. Rjensen 06:43, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * AAA lists TN as a Southeastern state. Rklawton 07:26, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

POV

 * I have placed POV on this article because certain editors are attempting to promote inappropriate and biased views.--Bookofsecrets 06:47, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Southern state?
here's a citation from liberal magazine "New Republic": "Congressman Harold Ford suddenly has a real chance of winning--and becoming the first black senator from the South to be elected since 1874." [12.16.2005] Proof that the blacks consider Tennessee to be South. [www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w051212&s=risen121605] Foxnews: " Rep. Artur Davis, D-Ala., who with Ford is a member of the CBC and among the House’s southern black representatives... Ford has “positioned himself as a centrist,” Davis said. “I think it will enable him to break out of the pack that black Democrats are pushed to in the South.” Newsweek March 27, 2006 issue - "Ford wants to be the first black senator from the South since Reconstruction." [www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11903425/site/newsweek/] --the point is that whites and blacks alike call tenn South--no racism there. Rjensen 07:07, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * What Harold Ford wants is not the issue here. Keeping this and other article NPOV in the only issue here.  --Bookofsecrets 07:14, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Southeastern is not only more geographically specific, but it also has less POV baggage than Southern. Therefore, it becomes incombant upon Rjensen to explain how Southern is somehow a more suitable choice.  A couple of usage citations are mere anecdote and doesn't stack up against the logic already presented.  Rklawton 07:19, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with you User:Rklawton. Citing Harold Ford, if anything, damages his argument.  I won't go into that, but all articles need to be as NPOV as humanly possible. --Bookofsecrets 07:22, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * In fact the AAA Auto Club South was established as a Florida corporation in 1938 and now covers the areas of Florida, Georgia, the western two-thirds of Tennessee with hq in Nashville (check Google). Rjensen 07:30, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Where AAA is based has nothing whatsoever to do with this article complying with Wikipedia NPOV policy. --Bookofsecrets 07:36, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * User:Rklawton and I are merely trying to keep negative bias from this article. Negative bias has no place in any article on Wikipedia.  Please be NPOV.  Thanks, --Bookofsecrets 07:46, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You base your theory on a road map that says nothing about POV or racism. That's fraud. Rjensen 07:56, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You asked for a source, and I provided one, it just happened to be one I had on hand by my desk. If you don't think TN is in the southeast, please say so.  Lastly, since you don't disagree that Southeastern is more accurate, and since you don't disagree that Southeastern is less POV than Southern, I think you should drop your objections.  Rklawton 14:03, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * You need to remember the N in NPOV is neutral, not NO. Neutrality is maintained by giving a range of points of view proportionate to their prevelance. --pgk( talk ) 16:05, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't have time to throw myself into an argument right now, as I'm busy studying for finals, but FWIW, I agree with Rjensen. There's nothing offensive or inappropriate about calling either Alabama or Tennessee "Southern" states. Bookofsecrets's argument does not hold water. "The South" is not a solely cultural term, but is also a recognizable geographic entity, and has been for well over two centuries. While "southeastern" may be technically correct in strictly geographic terms, I think it's important not to remove these states from their historical and cultural context without good reason. And what reason is there? What is there that's not neutral about calling the region what it is? It's no different than saying that Massachusetts is in New England or that Kansas is in the Midwest. New England, the Midwest, and the South are all widely recognized geographic regions and are more descriptive than a strictly technical definition. That's my one cent; you can expect the other when I have more time. —LonelyPilgrim 01:09, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * You raise some really good points, and it's great to hear from a new voice. I agree with your logic but not your conclusion.  Specifically, I find your logic about not dissociating Tennessee (and other former Confederate States by extension) from its historical roots very compelling.  We mustn't rewrite history!  However, consider this.  This is an article about TN, a modern entity.  And I'd like to see the main section of the article focus on TN as it is and not as it was.  The South is indeed "history" as you put it.  Therefore, I propose keeping the "southern" references in related parts of this article's history section.  It also remains part of Tennessee's culture, and so references to that aspect of Tennessee belong there as well.  However, to put "southern" in the top of the article would simply be creating an unfortunately anachronism.  And that's really all this discussion has been about.


 * I also understand your point about not finding the term "southern" offensive. There was a time when I flew the Confederate flag – for no other reason than I thought it was a really cool looking flag.  Little did I appreciate at the time how other people felt about that flag, what it had grown to symbolize for them.  For me, it was just a neat design and nothing more.  And that, I think is one of the points I'd like to make here.  It's not whether some folks don’t find the term "southern" problematical.  It's true, some don't.  But it's a hard cold fact that some people really do find it problematical.  Some may wonder why, but why isn't the issue.  The issue is that it is indeed a problem for some.  And in the case of the main body of this article, it's an entirely avoidable problem – and that's what matters.  There's nothing offensive about stating that TN is in the Southeastern part of the United States, yet it's that very statement to which RJensen objects.  Rklawton 01:28, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree. I don't think "the South" or "Southern" are anachronistic terms at all; they are not "history." The South existed as an identifiable region well before the Civil War, and continues to exist as such to this day. When I hear that term, I don't think immediately of the sectional conflict or the war. The South is my home, and even detached from its history, it's a unique geographic and cultural entity in the present. We have Southern literature, Southern cuisine, and many other cultural items associated with the South as a modern region. I think you missed my major point that the South is no different as a region than the Midwest or New England. The fact that the South is associated in history with the Confederacy is only incidental to its definition as a modern region. I don't know if you've noticed, but Bookofsecrets seems to have a personal agenda against any mention of "the South" or "Southerner," calling them "negative" and "insulting," and has attempted to remove them from the articles of every Southern state, not just Tennessee and Alabama. If anybody here has a point of view, I'd say it's him. —LonelyPilgrim 01:52, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Since it's troublesome to some folks, and since the recommended replacement (in the main body of the article) is technically more accurate, then there should be no problems. All the references you bring up are fully appropriate - and belong in the various sections under but not within the main body. The "personal agenda" you describe is called "consistency" and that's certainly a positive goal for Wikipedia's articles. Rklawton 02:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * To whom is the term "Southern" troublesome? Can you please cite examples? In all my years, I've never heard of this. I've also never heard the term "Southeastern United States" used as a defined geographic region. And please don't cite the AAA map; if that's the only source you have, you're standing on pretty flimsy ground. Technically more accurate isn't necessarily more accurate overall, and isn't necessarily better. I'm of the opinion that "Southern" is more descriptive of the region in which the state resides — a region, as I've previously stated, which defines Tennessee culturally as well as geographically. In this sense, "Southern" is the superior term. In the present revision, there's not even a link to this region, which severs the state from its cultural context and makes the entry significantly less useful. As for Bookofsecrets's personal agenda, I was refering to his unreasonably hostile attitude toward these terms. And as for consistency, I think you'll find across the board that "the South" and "Southern" are by far the most prevalent terms used in refering to this region of the country. They are used in the introductions of every other Southern state, in numerous other articles here, elsewhere on the Internet, in scholarly writings, in the news media, in popular usage; among people of all races, backgrounds, and political persuasions — essentially everywhere. To suggest otherwise is without foundation, and to seek to remove these terms in the name of neutrality or consistency is absurd. —LonelyPilgrim 03:18, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

The NPOV dispute
Regarding the 1st issue: Both "Southern" and "Southeastern" are correct and I see no POV issue here. Yes, "Southern" has definite cultural connotations, however, NPOV does not mean "remove anything that has cultural connotations". Seeing as how "Southeastern" is equally appropriate, I have substituted "Southeastern" to address your concern (however exagerrated it may be). I do not understand why you did not make this change yourself, rather than trying to stir up such a bruhaha.

Regarding the 2nd issue: You may be correct that Governor Isham G. Harris officially proclaimed Tennessee the "Volunteer State", however, that is not the reason Tennessee is known by this nickname. Tennessee is known as the Volunteer State primarily due to its role in the War of 1812. I can cite dozens of sources for this if you wish, but I think the citation from the State Archives that I have added to the article should be sufficient.

Unless you have any further POV concerns, I will remove the NPOV tag tomorrow. Kaldari 16:59, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Reverted Again
I have reverted back to my last edit of the lead paragraph. The other one, true or not, was not the main issue. The use of "Southern" in place of Southeastern was the main issue. An example would be, "Tennessee is a Celtic state in the United States or an American Indian state in the United States". "Southern" in this context is totally cultural and totally inappropriate. --Bookofsecrets 19:10, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * My change was to "Southeastern", just as you suggested. I am reverting back, as not only is your reason for reverting completely bogus, but you also reverted over several other edits besides the one you are concerned with. If you continue to troll on this issue, you will be blocked. I am not interested in playing games here. Kaldari 19:18, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Then if you are not interested in playing games leave the game. My reasons are not "Bogus" as you say.  "Southern" in cultural, period, in the 21st Century.  I wrote the lead paragraph to sound modern and positive.  Please refrain from further disruption here.  --Bookofsecrets 19:25, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Your reason is completely bogus. MY VERSION USES "SOUTHEASTERN"!!! Why don't you look at the edit before you revert it. Kaldari 19:28, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I will leave it as you have edited it. But nothing about what I've been presenting is "Bogus" and I desire that you refrain from the tone with me.  It is insulting and inappropriate.  --Bookofsecrets 19:32, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Insulting! Why of all the gall! I've been editing and improving this article for years (look at my barnstars if you have any doubts). You could have just come in here and made a simple edit from "Southern" to "Southeastern", but instead you apparently have some kind of chip on your shoulder and came in here looking to pick a fight instead. And even though I didn't agree with your argument, I decided to accept your point and use "Southeastern" instead of "Southern". And for this act of civility and compromise I get not only the intro reverted, but all the other work I did on the article today. I understand if this debate has left you anxious and short-tempered, but do not let that interfere with your ability to constructively work with other editors, especially editors who have put a lot more work into this article than you have. As we both apparently feel insulted now, I suggest we call a truce, and try to work calmly towards any future improvement of this article. Kaldari 19:50, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Point well taken and accepted. I apologize.  --Bookofsecrets 19:59, 30 April 2006 (UTC)


 * This is a strange dispute indeed. The word "southern" has a primarily geographical meaning. The cultural associations tied up with that word are, of course, vivid and complex - both positive and negative, and an abundance of things too complicated to be so polarized. To presume that the connotation of "southern" is negative, or that the connotations of "southern" exist independently from the connotations of "Tennessee" or "Alabama", such that "neutrality" can be improved by removing the term seems to constitute a very particular, perhaps singly-held point of view. I do not agree with it and I empathize with Kaldari on this matter. --Dystopos 04:21, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I see it has been changed from Southeastern to Southern once again. All of you can look foolish if you so desire.  I reside in the Southeastern United States of America.  The "OLD SOUTH" is deceased and I'm very happy that it is.  --Bookofsecrets 12:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The word "Southern" is accurate and the idea that it carries only long-gone and negative connotations is unfounded. You are free to have your own opinion, but it is not proper to cite Wikipedia's policy to support it; nor is it proper (and for this, I can appeal to policy) to revert the work of editors acting in good faith in order to push your own point of view. --Dystopos 13:05, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Negative Connotations Valid

 * The word "Southern" is accurate and the idea that it carries only long-gone and negative connotations is unfounded. This is simply your opinion of the situation.  I've grown way beyond those narrow-minded concepts long ago.  I reside in the Southeastern United States of America and in the great state of Tennessee.  "Southern" does have serious negative connotations whether you agree or not.  In my line of employment I meet people from numerous walks of life and from around the globe.  I've learned that their are sincerely honest and good people from everywhere on Earth.  I've further learned that their are unsavory individuals from everywhere on Earth.  The unsavory ones give the sincere and honest ones a bad name and this is most unfortunate.  "Southern", in the 21st Century, is almost totally a cultural concept.  Say you live in Louisiana, you live in the Gulf-Coast Region.  Say you live in Washington, you live in the Northwest Region.  These other regions do not carry the negative connotations that "Southern" and "The South" do.  Why?  Because certain Pro-Southern organizations, Pro-White Supremists' organizations, etc are pushing their sick agenda's.  They promote cultural genocide and I have seen this first hand.  It is insulting to me and a great many others.  I have no desire to be compared or included amongst these organizations and/or individuals.  It is not who I am.  I was attempting to edit in order to make those articles less negative and less racial in tone.  Since there are people on wikipedia from all over the globe we should strive to create articles that are very neutral.  "Southern" is not neutral, "Southeastern" is.  --Bookofsecrets 14:23, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Bookofsecrets, this is getting utterly ridiculous. To be as neutral and correct as possible, look to the U.S. Census Bureau. According to their map [], Tennessee is in the "South" Region and the "East South Central" Division. If you really want it correct, use this terminology. Otherwise you are pushing an agenda, here and at other state's articles, which is not appreciated or necessary. Alternatively, go take on the Bureau! Civil Engineer III 15:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Civil Engineer III, I will not take on the Bureau of Census. Frankly, I would not throw a bucket of water on them if they were blazing.  In other words, how they determine where I live is a moot point with me.  There are many things the government does that is moot with me. Those are other issues that I'm not at liberty to voice on wikipedia.  My employment has everything to do with tourism.  In the tourism trade it is "Southeastern" not "Southern".  It is that way to keep down negativity.  --Bookofsecrets 17:13, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I also reside in the Southeastern United States of America, in the great state of Alabama. "Southern" does have all kinds of connotations -- serious and silly, negative and positive, founded and unfounded -- whether you agree or not. In my line of employment I also meet people from numerous walks of life and from around the globe. There are certainly honest and good people as well as unsavory individuals everywhere on earth. People with common sense can see that the Southern region of the United States is capable of a rich and diverse culture, not limited to or defined by certain hate groups that have latched onto symbols of the old south. In the end, your campaign to eliminate the word "Southern" is without merit. Palermo is still in Sicily regardless of the popular perception of Sicilians. Antwerp is in Flanders regardless of popular perception of the Flemish, and Tennessee is still in the South regardless of the popular perception of Southerners. --Dystopos 16:26, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * As long as "Southern" is used in a geographical manner I can somewhat be satisfied. If it is used in the manner of "Old South", racists', etc etc.  Then I find it detestable, insulting, and degrading.  Those who view "Southern" in the latter I deem as foolish in their ideals.  They are free to look as foolish as they choose.  However, I will not go any further with this as I see I'm spinning my wheels in the mud.  I have a goal to bring Tennessee and other Southeastern states into the 21st Century regardless of what certain individuals think.  --Bookofsecrets 17:07, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * What is it about the following sentence "Tennessee is a Southern state of the United States, and the sixteenth state to join the union." that makes you think the word "southern" is being used in the manner of "'Old South', racists', etc etc."? That's the sentence you keep changing, and have labeled as a violation of NPOV. I could understand the need for change if the opening was "Tennessee was a state in the Confederate States of America and the 10th to secede from the United States in 1861". Although factual, it has nothing to do with Tennessee today. Being in the south, even in the 21st century, has everything to do with Tennessee today. If all you see in "the South" is racism, then I suggest opening your eyes. --Dystopos 18:26, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

No More Children Here please.
I have removed the comments by myself and Bookofsecrets for the sake of peace, love, donuts and all that jazz. Beer all around! P.H. - Kyoukan, UASC 00:36, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I vote for BUDWEISER dude! --Bookofsecrets 00:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

It is not me.

 * I, Bookofsecrets, for the record, have not edited this article in two days. I only want to make sure that I'm not being wrongly accused for actions that are not my own.  I'm not saying anyone has accused me today, but I'm merely letting other editors know that I'm not going to change this again.  --Bookofsecrets 14:29, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * See the archive for the Southeastern vs. Southern debate, please. I added an archive because the talkpage was taking to long to add comments too.  Unfortunately I only have a dial-up internet connection.  --Bookofsecrets 14:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Be glad y'all aren't trying to figure out the truly difficult question of whether Missouri is a Southern or a Midwestern state! Regional terms are never neutral and always arbitrarily defined.  "Southeast" sounds funny to me.  The South is the southeast.  It's a big area though, with much variation.  If a smaller regional term is wanted, I'd call Tennessee part of the "Upper South".  Anyway, funny argument.  There's no correct answer, and no answer that won't make some people unhappy.  Be thankful it isn't Missouri's region being debated, or whether Santa Barbara is in southern California. Pfly 05:30, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank God for small miracles. P.H. - Kyoukan, UASC 20:11, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I think we can safely assume that Tennessee is Southern. T e  k e  01:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Southern is more accuracute than Southeast for the state as a whole. I can see perhaps East Tennessee prefering Southeast; but West & Middle Tennessee would definately prefer Southern. Jon 18:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Have you interviewed the entire population of Middle and West TN? I'm from Middle TN and prefer SE.Squiggyfm 18:58, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Here is the definition of Southeast. If the state is below the Mason-Dixon, east of the Mississippi, and doesn't touch the Atlantic Ocean, then it is Southeast. BTW I have lived in middle TN all my life and always heard it referred to as Southeast. Nikter 08:50, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Another term is Upper South - Tennessee was recognized as part of the Upper South before and after the Civil War. This reflected some of the characteristics - demographics, style of agriculture, that made it different from states in the Deep South.--Parkwells 22:14, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

History
A lot of history information has recently been added. That's great, but wouldn't it be better to make that a separate article (History of Tennessee) and summarize here? The history section now commands 2/3 of the article.Civil Engineer III 19:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. Kaldari 21:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Nice stuff. T e  k e  01:38, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

History of the Three Great Divisions
The different physical character of the three sections of the state influenced who settled each section, the kinds of agriculture and industry that were supported, and what its dominant demographics were. It would be useful to have a map that shows the three sections, even though they are well described. --Parkwells 22:17, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Politics section snipped; too many factual errors
Quoting "Tennessee politics, like that of most U.S. States, revolves around the Democratic and Republican Parties. Democrats are very strong in metropolitan Memphis, Nashville, and Chattanooga. The Democratic Party is also relatively strong in most of Middle Tennessee and West Tennessee north of Memphis.

The Republicans have the most strength in East Tennessee, one of the few areas of the South with a Republican voting history that predates the 1960s. Much of this region has not elected a Democrat to Congress since the Civil War. In contrast, the Democrats dominated politics in the rest of the state until the 1960s. The Republicans also have much strength in Memphis and Nashville's suburbs.

During the 2000 Presidential Election, Tennesse failed to vote for one of its own, former Tennesse Senator Al Gore, and instead voted for George W. Bush.

Federally, Tennessee sends nine members to the House of Representatives. Currently, the delegation consists of five Democrats and four Republicans.

See also: List of Tennessee Governors, U.S. Congressional Delegations from Tennessee"

Issues list: Jon 18:48, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Most other states don't have a politics section in them.
 * "Very" is unencyopedic; and to the extent its there actually hurts accuracy.
 * The Memphis Metro area is by new means unified; it's one of the most polizaried metros in the nation. Between Memphis City (Democrat) and the rest of the Metro area (Republican); with the most recent annexed areas tending to side with the county along with large potions of "East Memphis" in voting Republican.
 * Nashville: Major exception to Democratic strength in that metro: Williamson county. But also in the last couple of decades the surburbs have been trending Republican. (Nashville consolidated with Davidson County a few decades ago and so what are inner suburbs in many other parts of the US is part of the central city there.)
 * I think that author meant "Northwest TN" instead of "West Tennessee north of Memphis"; the Northern suburbs of Memphis are just as Republican as its Eastern suburbs. In addition, Jackson, TN in the central portion of West Tennesee is itself significantly Republican.
 * Chatt: Chatt's metro area is divided right along the lines that most metros in the US are.
 * Knoxville: What's not listed is that the city of Knoxville itself is much more Republican than most US cities are.
 * On "Al Gore", many Tenneseeans don't consider him to be "one of their own". Al Gore was born in DC, attended an Ivy League School and worse yet, voting record in the US Senate post 1986 when he first tried to run for President was in line with Northern Democrats, not Southern ones.

Error in the Tennessee template box
The standard templated "Tennessee" box has an error in the spelling of Claiborne County. It is spelled correctly on List of counties in Tennessee. I can't figure out where to go to get it fixed. --orlady 23:10, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Aha! I found it at Template:Tennessee and I fixed it! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Orlady (talk • contribs).

New Sports section added to updated WikiProject U.S. states format
The WikiProject U.S. states format has been updated to include a new Sports section, that covers collegiate sports, amateur sports, and non-team sports (such as hunting and fishing). Please feel free to add this new heading, and supply information about sports in Tennessee. Please see South_carolina as an example. NorCalHistory 13:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Tennessee flag
Is it my imagination, or is it upside-down in the image displayed on this page? --orlady 20:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Its you. Two stars on top.  Squiggyfm 05:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Religion
Currently, the religion percentages don't add up. I wonder if this is due to leaving out the "refused" survey category? Btyner 22:54, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I was just looking at those numbers. It is the most inaccurate thing I have ever seen. Catholic having 6% just does not add up. While the church of Christ and Churches of God are lower? How is that when those churches are on every corner and most towns do not even have a Catholic church. Most Tennessee counties have anywhere from 5 to 30+ churches of Christ in them alone with 10+ members. While only half of the counties have a Catholic church and they are quite small in membership. This source seems highly dubious to me as someone who has studied religion in Tennessee for 35 years. The dominate churches of the north are not as predominate in the South as there are many more non denominational churches in the state. --DanteAgusta (talk) 03:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * As it happens, only one of the 50 states (Mississippi) reported a lower percentage of Catholics in that survey. Six percent is a very small number for Catholics. The Catholic population in my local area (Oak Ridge and Knoxville) is a lot higher than 6%, but I'm sure it balances out statewide. --Orlady (talk) 03:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * It is not the number of Catholics, it is the number compared to the other more dominate groups in the state. Knoxville and Oak Ridge are exceptions in the state due to the nuclear plant, and UT have a very diverse student body. It is the membership numbers compared to the church of Christ, Church of God and non-denominationals that baffle me. But, until I get the online sources that say otherwise, not much else I can say for the moment. --DanteAgusta (talk) 03:45, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep in mind that the source is a survey. While this is probably the most reliable way to get religious statistics, it also largely depends on how the person answers. In other words, nearly all Catholics will say 'Catholic' when asked what their religion is, but members of a non-denominational church are probably less likely to say 'Chuch of God', I'm guessing many of them will just say that they're Christian or something. Alexius  Horatius 04:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Extremely good point. I would answer Christian first, and if they did not follow up, then they would get no more. Oh well. It is not really that important. The information gives a good idea of what the major statistics are. No need to be 100% accurate as it would be impossible, as you say, to source it. I think people would get the idea that Tennessean are generally religious. But I also noticed the lack of other religions like Wiccan and the like that are growing withing the state. --DanteAgusta (talk) 04:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I went back to the referenced source (http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/aris/key_findings.htmThe Graduate Center, The City University of New York) and found that some of the surveyed categories were not included in this section list and that the various  reported religious affiliations were not totaled or reported  within the referenced research with a broader 'Christian' group encompassing the various groups reported (read like original research to me as the affiliation 'Christian' itself was listed on the survey at 7% ) --- my edit was to create a table of religious affiliation descending from the highest to lowest percentage values as presented  by the referenced study.Bee Cliff River Slob (talk) 23:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Could you come up with a way to present the information in a more compact format? Kaldari (talk) 23:19, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I want to note that I know of at least two Hindu temples in Tennessee. These are larger official temples which probably bring in worshipers from a fairly large radius (not just those living in the neighborhood). There is a Ganesha temple in Nashville, and another temple in Memphis that might have an even larger group of worshipers. I mention this because these people aren't even showing up in the religious table. --unknown editor from TN 12/28/2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.53.97.168 (talk) 16:34, 28 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Quite a few Hindu in TN. I grew up with a large number of them. And still know many here in my small town. Large number of Indian's that own hotels here in the state. Especially in Nashville and Chattanooga. So you expect there to be places of worship in those cities especially. --DanteAgusta (talk) 18:39, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Memphis Music
It would be useful to have a section describing Memphis Music.


 * That would be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis%2C_Tennessee#The_Arts (not in the statewide article). --orlady 14:13, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You may also want to see Music_of_Tennessee. It does seem strange that there is no section on Tennessee culture in this article, however. Kaldari 15:27, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

TWRA
What's this about Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency being a dedicated law enforcement agency? I thought they were into managing fish and game. Their mission statement says "The mission of the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency is to preserve, conserve, protect, and enhance the fish and wildlife of the state and their habitats for the use, benefit, and enjoyment of the citizens of Tennessee and its visitors.  The Agency will foster the safe use of the state's waters through a program of law enforcement, education, and access." That doesn't sound like "dedicated law enforcement" to me. --orlady 04:43, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

TENNESSEE, THE VOLUNTEER STATE
>>I suggest you study your Tennessee history a bit more carefully. Governor Isham G. Harris, positively, did nickname Tennessee the Volunteer State. That came a long time after the War of 1812.

"[State Historian Robert H.] White has shown, Tennessee was referred to in the press on the eve of the Mexican War as the 'Volunteer State.' When that war began and 2,800 Tennessee soldiers were requested by the national government, 30,000 volunteered, thus proving the appropriateness of the nickname.' (TENNESSEE: A Short History. Folmshee, Corlew, Mitchell (1972), p. 476)." Tennessee had earned it's nickname long before Isham G. Harris had ever come along. For the record, Aaron V. Brown (D) was Governor of Tennessee at the onset of the Mexican War in 1846. Drsowell 21:04, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Important cities and towns
For this part of the article, We need some agreed-on criteria as to what's a "major city" and a "secondary city." The "major city" list is pretty straightforward, although there's room for argument (for example, about whether Clarksville belongs on that list). The secondary cities list is more problematic -- it appears that individual contributors have added some cities, pretty much on the fly. (For example, today I added Morristown, which is bigger than some other listed cities and functions as a regional urban center.)

See List of cities and towns in Tennessee as a basis for discussion.

I question whether the list in the Tennessee article should include large bedroom suburbs, such as Germantown. Instead, it seems to me there should be a criterion limiting it to communities above a certain size that either are (1) official center cities of metropolitan or micropolitan areas or (2) have the attributes of a "center city" (that is, a major center of commercial activity) even if located in the orbit of another city. By this rule, I think that: I'm not sure whether Franklin, Hendersonville, and Smyrna (which is not on there now) should be listed, as I don't know whether they are more like center cities or bedroom suburbs. What do the rest of you (y'all) think?--orlady 03:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Germantown, Bartlett, Collierville, Athens, and Maryville probably should move off the list;
 * Columbia probably should be added

Franklin is most definitely a center city in its own right and not a bedroom suburb. Considering that it will be the North American Headquarters for Nissan... Smashville 15:24, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That reasoning works for me.--orlady 19:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * For "major city", I would say population of over 100,000. For minor city, I would say... uh... dunno. Kaldari 18:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That means you agree with the current "major cities" list, which includes Clarksville in addition to the big 4. On "secondary cities," what do you think regarding Germantown, Bartlett, Collierville, Athens, Maryville, Hendersonville, Smyrna, and Columbia??? (To the extent that you are familiar with these places...) --orlady 19:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * All I know is I don't understand how Athens made the list. It's a small city in one of the state's smallest counties. Hendersonville is also pretty iffy. Smashville 23:15, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Those are tricky. I would shy away from debating individual cities and try to come up with some kind of objective criteria, like "population greater than 10,000, but not located inside another city's metropolitan area" or something like that. Kaldari 21:54, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * 25,000+ would cover most of them. And eliminate a lot of debateSmashville 01:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It looks like that would give us 13 minor cities, which is manageable. I like keeping it simple. Complicated criteria are difficult to enforce. Kaldari 18:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

svg map
maybe fuck off using these crappy svg images (like the map of TN in the USA) that are oversized and cannot be viewed by most of the browsers.--194.81.255.254 20:47, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? Image:Map of USA TN.svg is not oversized; it is just 286 × 186 pixels. However, the file size is large (167kb). If you have a dial-up internet connection, that would be annoying. I suggest that you share your concern with the image creators at Image talk:Map of USA with state names.svg. --Orlady 21:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

overwhelmingly evangelical?
I'm removing the sentence, "As with all Southern states except perhaps Louisiana, residents of Tennessee overwhelmingly prefer an evangelical Protestant religious affiliation. " My addition of the percentages immediately following gives 49%, which doesn't seem overwhelming to me. --Allen 21:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I dunno why I never saw that before. Good catch. Smashville 23:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Hello. I just wanted to ask anyone from Knoxville, TN to submit a photo to the Tennessee page and any other people from Tennessee who's not from Nashville or Memphis to add more photos. This is a great opportunity to improve the page that represents the great state of Tennessee. Thanks for reading this post. Jay 22:56, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Major corporations
What are the criteria for inclusion as a "major corporation" headquartered in the state? The list heavily favors Memphis and leaves off larger Fortune 500 companies. FedEx, AutoZone, and IP are ranked respectively as the 2nd, 4th, and 8th largest Fortune 500 companies headquartered in the state; others in the top 8 are Caremark Rx (1), HCA (3), Unum Group (5), Dollar General (6), and Eastman Chemical (7). Jstein4716 (talk) 23:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Raw materials
I removed the following sentence from the Middle Tennessee section: "It has raw materials such as, marble, copper, coal, and zinc." If you want to restore this information, cite sources. (I believe this is essentially true of the state, but not necessarily of Middle Tennessee.) --Orlady (talk) 02:41, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Civil War, Reconstruction and Disfranchisement
Throughout the pages of history, editors are happy to describe at length battles in the Civil War and trials of Reconstruction - admittedly more in other states' histories than here. I think it is as important to be clear about the disfranchising legislation and constitutions that most Southern states adopted from 1890-1908 that deprived most African Americans and many poor whites across the South of the ability to vote. The disfranchisement of both groups lasted for decades into the 20th century, although some poor whites got relief before the Voting Rights Act of 1965. That is no more of an agenda than the lengthy descriptions of battles and generals.--Parkwells (talk) 12:34, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * The material on disfranchisement and its lasting effects for blacks and poor whites comes from the state's own encyclopedia online.It deserves to be included here.--Parkwells (talk) 12:42, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I removed "Disfranchisement" from the header. "Civil War" and "Reconstruction" are well-established names for particular eras in American history. "Disfranchisement" is an important topic, but it is not the name of an era, so it does not belong in the subheader. --Orlady (talk) 14:19, 24 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Disfranchisement happened after Reconstruction, in the late 19th century, across the South. There does not appear to be a name for that era, and the significant legislation and new constitutions (in 10 of 11 states) all get overlooked.--Parkwells (talk) 14:35, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Airports
In the airports section I belive an addition should be made. All the airports there I agree with, however Jackson Meckellar Spies airport should be there too. I belive it is a medium-large airport. While yes there is no current major airlines flying out of there, there have been in the past and are trying to get service restored to and from there.--Navy blue84 (talk) 03:07, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Kurds in the state
I have a quation, is it right thats many kurds life in the state. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.181.214.37 (talk) 20:55, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Check out the Nashville, Tennessee article for info on that. Kaldari (talk) 23:18, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Removed
The following sentence about the Nashville Basin: Its people are traditionally Scotch-Irish and still adhere to very traditional ways of life, thus giving this region a distinct "Old World" or pre-Civil War feel.

We're talking about the area around Nashville here...not some giant Amish community.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.130.28.43  (talk)  11:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Date of secession
I think I found the root of the confusion. Tennessee's entry at Wikinfo incorrectly lists the date of secession as May 7, 1861, and a few dozen mirror sites have copied this information, spreading it over much of the web. In May 1861, Tennessee's state government formed a military league with the Confederacy and made other moves to join the CSA, but none of this was official until the state voted to secede on June 8. Bms4880 (talk) 21:09, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It was sent to referendum on May 6th. Like Bms4880 stated the state didn't actually vote to secede until June 8th.--Navy blue84 (talk) 21:22, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Tennessee's secession was in two parts - the state effectively seceded on May 7, 1861; and officially on June 8, 1861. The ratification vote was basically just a formality at that point, as the state had already set up a military partnership with the Confederacy and was openly defying the federal government before the June vote occurred. This is why no one can agree on what state was the last to secede from the Union. It depends on how you're counting. I've added clarification and a citation to the article. If you want to know the full story, check out the citation. Kaldari (talk) 21:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Inconsistencies
The editors of this page ought to check the Fort Loudoun page. There are several serious inconsistencies between the information presented here and the information on the Fort Loudoun page. It causes me (and anyone else who notices this) to seriously doubt the veracity of the information on either page. Sources would be nice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.221.222.130 (talk) 19:31, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * According to this, the ones who weren't killed were taken prisoner. --Smashvilletalk 19:43, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The error is likely rooted in early historian John Haywood, who wrote of the ambush: "...the Indians fell upon and destroyed the whole troop&mdash; men, women, and children&mdash; except three men&mdash; Jack, Stuart, and Thomas&mdash; who were saved by the friendly exertions of the Indian chief called the Little Carpenter; except, also six men who were in the advance guard, and who escaped into the white settlements... It is said that between two and three hundred men, besides women and children, perished in the massacre." (Civil and Political History of the State of Tennessee, p. 44). Most modern sources, however, state that the officers and about two dozen men were killed, the rest taken prisoner, and a few escaping.  Some died while in captivity, but most were eventually released. I've made the necessary changes to the article. Bms4880 (talk) 22:09, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

This was a nice response and the changes to the article were well written. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.221.222.130 (talk) 13:51, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

the governor
In the Law and Government section, it says: "The governor is the only official who is elected statewide, making him one of the more powerful chief executives in the nation."

How does this make him one of the more powerful chief executives in the nation? Bms4880 (talk) 20:18, 28 February 2009 (UTC)


 * That is a good question. But going back to the Civil War, the Tennessee Governorship has been considered a high importance. And during WW2 even more so. It may not be anything to do with the law, but as the state and the people are keen to enlist in the military and work hard for disaster relief. It can also be said the many past TN Governors have moved on to Washington into high positions including Cabinet level positions. (Not including the recent chatter about the current Gov.) But as for the Law, I just don't know. I believe some sources would be needed for this statement other that want is there. --DanteAgusta (talk) 00:52, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the meaning of this is that, since not all government officials are elected, that makes him more powerful since he is more popular. I am not 100% sure of the meaning, but just my opinion.--Navy blue84 (talk) 01:17, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

first known inhabitants —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.86.205.102 (talk) 03:30, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Secession
The position of the US gov't is that no state ever successfully seceded from the US (See Texas v. White). Saying any state officially seceded is POV. Some also claim it would be POV to assert a state did NOT secede. Instead, at very least at first mention, it would be appropriate to say they declared a secession - which is not in contention. This has been the way this issue has been dealt with at American Civil War and Confederate States of America - and so it should be dealt with everywhere. The states are also sometimes referred to as "seceding" or "attempting a secession". WP:NPOV requires that wikipedia not take a position on whether any states seceded - regardless of what any sources might say. (Text within quotes is a different matter.) --JimWae (talk) 07:43, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

And there is NO grammatical error in
 * "Tennessee became the last state to officially declare secession from the Union on June 8, 1861"

despite a claim made in an edit summary. It does, however, have the same problem as:
 * "Tennessee became the last state to secede from the Union on June 8, 1861."

which might be misinterpreted as saying more than one did so on that day. Better would be:
 * "Tennessee became the last state to officially declare secession from the Union, on June 8, 1861."

or
 * "On June 8, 1861, Tennessee became the last state to officially declare secession from the Union."

--JimWae (talk) 07:51, 13 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Semantics, and your change is still bad grammar. Since you made this edit on another article while the exact same issue was under contention here, I realize you're also pushing your own POV, and not editing in good faith. I'm done here. SOme battels are just not worth fighting. However, I concede nothing, and will await an oppurtunity to discuss this with other editors in good faith. - BillCJ (talk) 08:44, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

So, now NPOV is a POV? NPOV semantics are a primary principle on wikipedia. Saying states seceded is POV, saying they did not might also be POV - say neither -- see Texas v White. The grammar is no worse than what's already there, and your pointing to that is specious reasoning  --JimWae (talk) 08:56, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I think a trip to WP:AOBF is called for here - for saying I was masquerading & that I was not editing in good faith. I have tried to not make this personal, and would appreciate the same--JimWae (talk) 09:49, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

B Class quality assessment
I have undone the assessment change from B to Start Class that was performed by User:NuclearWarfare in this edit:. By two Wikiprojects, the article was rated B-Class two years ago. The Version 1.0 Editorial Team rated it B Class after a review.

If you familiarize yourself with the rating system (Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment) you will find that a B Class article does not have to be perfect. On the scale from Stub-Start-C-B-GA-A-FA Class, the B Class sits right in the middle. In my view and obviously in the the view of two other projects the criteria for B Class are fulfilled. So please do not change the rating back without discussing it here first. doxTxob \ talk 22:37, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Lock this article
This article continues to get vandilized by ip address users. i beleieve that all pages on wikipedia....ALL PAGES should be locked PERMANENTLY and only edited by established users, or ones that dont have a bad reputation, like VANDILISING!--Nick Ornstein (talk) 10:49, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Please see Five Pillars. --Smashvilletalk 14:28, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Tennessee State Route 840
This article refers to Tennessee State Route 840 as I-840, even though it is actually not a part of the Interstate Highway System. We should drop the I and just call it Tennessee State Route 840.Pdcook (talk) 19:50, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, it shouldn't have been mentioned at all, as the section is about Interstates in Tennessee. --Smashvilletalk 20:01, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You make an even better point!Pdcook (talk) 21:52, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

May 2010 Flood
This page needs a section about the May 2010 flood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibnsina786 (talk • contribs) 02:14, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't the flood in TN be in the history section?
I live here, and I was in it, and I didn't find any part where it talked about the flood here in TN. Shouldn't that be part of the history section? -- Gar-Art Studios (talk) 23:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The flooding is covered in 2010 Tennessee floods. In general, significant recent events aren't covered in this high-level article about the state (it's still too early to think of them as history), but the floods might deserve a mention here somewhere (possibly under Climate). --Orlady (talk) 23:19, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Ok. -- Gar-Art Studios (talk) 01:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Prominent Tennesseans
Why no list of prominent Tennesseans? Off the top of my head I can think of a couple; Fred Thompson and everybody's favourite controversial pre-Patton cavalry commander.KhProd1 (talk) 04:45, 17 September 2010 (UTC)


 * The list might get a bit long. (Besides, my favorite cavalry commander was Phil Sheridan.) Alexius  Horatius  05:22, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Climate Section
I read the section on Tennessee's climate and I found this part somewhat inaccurate.

"Summers in the state are generally hot and humid, with most of the state averaging a high of around 90 °F (32 °C) during the summer months. Winters tend to be mild to cool, increasing in coolness at higher elevations. Generally, for areas outside the highest mountains, the average overnight lows are near freezing for most of the state."

I've lived in southeast Tennessee for 15 years, and I can't remember the last time we had a "mild" or "cool" winter. I looked up Google's definition of the word "cool", and I found this:

"neither warm nor very cold; giving relief from heat; "a cool autumn day"; "a cool room"; "cool summer dresses"; "cool drinks"; "a cool breeze"

I don't even live in the mountains, but daytime highs here often range from the low 40s to the mid 30s. Overnight lows from the low 20s, to the upper 10s are fairly common. We even have a few days where it doesn't get above freezing. (In fact, just this past January, there was a period where the temperature stayed below freezing for five consecutive days) I know this isn't "frigid" like Minnesota or North Dakota, but wouldn't it be a little more accurate to simply put "cold winters". Northern Florida has mild to cool winters. Last time I checked, 32 and below was considered cold. (After all, isn't it the freezing point?)                    Giantsfan2104 (talk) 03:39, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

I live in southeast Tennessee too, and I have to say that it doesn't get very cold here in the winter, infact, it is usually quite mild. Snow is very rare. Sbrianhicks (talk) 21:20, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 98.86.14.162, 27 October 2010
The State of Tennessee also maintains campus police departments at all major four-year Board of Regents and University of Tennessee system schools as well as at some of the state's junior colleges. All campus police officers are state-certified and sworn and hold state commissions.

98.86.14.162 (talk) 05:59, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Do you have a reliable source which states the above? -- Jayron  32  06:10, 27 October 2010 (UTC)


 * See TBR Commissioning of Law Enforcement and Security Personnel. Officers may be hired and serve in a probationary status until they meet full standards. SBaker43 (talk) 21:59, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Merge discussion
There are four other pages about Tennessee, Grand Divisions, West Tennessee, Middle Tennessee, and East Tennessee that should, perhaps, be merged into this article. States really shouldn't need articles for their sections. 24.151.113.86 (talk) 23:45, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * They play a unique role in Tennessee, being written into the constitution, etc. A weak case can be made for making them into a single article; but adding them into this article is a bit bulky. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  00:36, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

And one more thing: This article is already tagged as "too long" at 91kb; if anything, we should be talking about splitting off topics, not merging other topics into this article. --Orlady (talk) 01:27, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Strongly oppose merger -- keep these articles as they are. As Orangemike has already pointed out, the concept of the three grand divisions is written into the state constitution. The regions are delineated in state law, and the three specific regions widely understood and used as geographic references. From a practical standpoint, note that two of these articles (West Tennessee and East Tennessee) are long and well-developed articles that would not blend at all well into a state article. Furthermore, many other articles link to these articles -- for example, I just yesterday drafted an article that referred to the first school cafeteria in West Tennessee. Merging all those articles into Tennessee would necessitate extensive edits to many of the hundreds of articles that link to them. Finally, I can't help pointing out that until a few hours ago (when I changed its rating), the article Geography of Washington, D.C. was listed as a "top importance" article for the United States Wikiproject. If that could be considered a top-importance article for the U.S., how could anyone begrudge the mere existence of an article like East Tennessee? --Orlady (talk) 01:18, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Strongly support merger -- The articles can still be shortened and merged anyway. Tennessee's state constitution doesn't make it significant enough to have more pro-Tennessee articles revolving around the same state.  If the articles are too big to be summarized, then perhaps we can simply merge the articles into Grand Divisions, instead.  That would probably be more reasonable.  Tennessee simply doesn't need five articles about sections of the same state. 24.151.113.86 (talk) 01:41, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Just curious: Do you think Wikipedia has too many articles about other topics, or is this just an issue with Tennessee? --Orlady (talk) 02:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I think Wikipedia has too many articles about it. If everything's summarized and merged- either all of it could be merged into Grand Divisions or Tennessee- that would probably be better.  I don't have an issue with a state.  24.151.113.86 (talk) 21:13, 8 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose -- First, look at List of regions of the United States to see that most states have more divisions, and pages about them, than Tennessee, for what that's worth. Second, all three regions of Tennessee are widely mentioned and clearly notable in themselves. Third, the 3-part Grand Divisions idea is in itself notable and significant. Few other states have such a well-defined regional division like that. In short, all the info on these pages shouldn't be incorporated into the Tennessee page--if anything the region pages could be improved and expanded in various ways. It might be sensible to merge the Grand Divisions page into the Tennessee page, perhaps. Pfly (talk) 03:02, 8 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I could see merging the Grand Divisions article into Tennessee or if that doesn't occur then rename to Grand Divisions of Tennessee as the current title needs clarification. The three regions are distinct and quite well defined, the Eastern article is well developed and serves well as a stand alone article. The Middle and West articles could easily be expanded as well. So, no merge except possibly for the Grand Divisions article. Vsmith (talk) 03:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment: As it happens, I have proposed renaming Grand Divisions. (See Talk:Grand Divisions.) Merging that article would create headaches with respect to the various articles that link to it, particularly those that link to its previous name of "Grand Divisions (Tennessee)". Not having an article explaining the grand divisions would make it all the harder to provide a link to an article to help explain things like the symbolism in the state flag or the references to them in the state constitution and other state laws. The Grand Divisions are not just about geography. --Orlady (talk) 03:50, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * There could be a "Grand Divisions" section in the Tennessee article, with links redirected there. But even so I see no great need to do any merging at all. Pfly (talk) 09:03, 8 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Strongly Oppose. These are three distinct entities, legally and culturally, especially East Tennessee.  Bms4880 (talk) 20:01, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I created Grand Divisions after noticing that the same paragragh, nearly verbatim, appeared in each of the pages for West Tennessee, Middle Tennessee, and East Tennessee.  I think we should be working on more clearly separating the information (the wiki-edited children of those paragraphs still live on in each) to reduce duplication, instead of combining the articles to reduce duplication.  (I probably should have done so when I had the chance 4 years ago but I guess I wasn't feeling bold enough.)  Anyway, reduced duplication of information strikes me as better than a merge. --  stillnotelf   is invisible  15:32, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Subarticles, like the sectional articles for Tennessee, allow wikipedia to exbound more about those areas within the regional subarticles than the main article might allow due to wikipedia-recommended size restrictions.  As long as there is no conflicting information between the regional articles and the main article, it shouldn't be an issue.  Thegreatdr (talk) 15:36, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose merging the 3 division articles. "Grand divisions" could probably be merged into the main article, or expanded a bit. - BilCat (talk) 15:52, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

First section too bulky
I believe the top of the page under Tennessee is very bulky. There is a lot of information that seems too specific to be placed at the top. For instance "Tennessee has seen some of the nation's worst racial strife, from the formation of the Ku Klux Klan in Pulaski in 1866 to the assassination of Martin Luther King in Memphis in 1968," seems like it could have a section on its own since there is a lot more information on this topic to be had. There is also overly descriptive specifics about the Civil war that should probably be placed withing the Civil War section. --Jacksoncw (talk) 19:29, 5 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The lede section was expanded following complaints that it was too short for the article's length. I disagree that the statement regarding racial strife should be removed, as these were two events with national (and international) implications.  I also disagree that the statements pointing out that Tennessee was the last state to leave and the first to rejoin the Union, and that it furnished more troops for the Confederacy and more troops for Union Army than any other Southern state are "overly descriptive," as they give the state a certain uniqueness. Bms4880 (talk) 20:18, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a reason it's called the "Volunteer State." -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  16:04, 11 February 2011 (UTC) (whose family gave two of its sons fighting for the Union)
 * Yeah, I think 6 paragraphs is a bit excessive. Virginia is a featured article and only has 3 paragraphs in the lead. I've combined the first two paragraphs and cropped out a couple of extraneous sentences. Kaldari (talk) 05:24, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Civil War, Reconstruction and Jim Crow
I think that the title of this section is inaccurate. I would like to change it from Civil War, Reconstruction and Jim Crow to Civil War and Reconstruction since, from what I can see, there is only one sentence that has anything to do with Jim Crow.--Jacksoncw (talk) 19:47, 5 February 2011 (UTC)


 * That makes sense. The entire History section can probably be truncated, since there is a separate History of Tennessee article.  Bms4880 (talk) 20:20, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Slaves
I don't know what Wikipedia's policy is on this, but in the Civil War section it calls slaves blacks and African Americans in several places.I think we should stick with one or the other.--Jacksoncw (talk) 15:50, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Climate section
One of the most important things to note about Tennessee is the three main regions. They are not only administrative but they each have different geography and climate as well. I don't believe the article makes the differences in climate clear enough, and some work needs to be done to make it more truthful.

City Data
The table includes data for cities in different parts of TN. West TN is represented by Memphis, Middle TN by Nashville. For East TN there is Chattanooga, Knoxville, and Oak Ridge.

The East TN cities are a problem. I can almost understand why Chattanooga and Knoxville are included separately even though the data is very similar, because of the location of each city. But Oak Ridge? I can't understand why it was chosen to represent the region. It's very close to Knoxville both geographically and in terms of the temperatures on the table, so to my way of thinking it is a duplication of Knoxville. But mostly, I cannot understand why the table doesn't include any climate data for the mountains of East TN. It's not that there is nowhere to choose, because there are at least Johnson City, Bristol, and Kingsport which form the regionally important TriCities area.

So what I have done is found out the data for Bristol (which I think is a good choice) and used it to replace the data for Oak Ridge. I think the table is now more representative of East TN and therefore the entire state. I had the data from http://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimatology/monthly/37620

Climate Section general
The section says
 * "On average the state receives 50 inches (130 cm) of precipitation annually. Snowfall ranges from 5 inches (13 cm) in West Tennessee to over 16 inches (41 cm) in the higher mountains in East Tennessee."
 * "most of the state averaging a high of around 90 °F during the summer months" and
 * "for areas outside the highest mountains, the average overnight lows are near freezing for most of the state."

Because of the three clear regions in TN, those statements are not supported by the actual climate data. Giving an average for temperature or precipitation that represents the entire state is meaningless. As you will see from the data in the table, temperature is not that way. For example, the average high does not apply to anywhere in East Tennessee except Chattanooga, which is tucked away from the mountains and is down in the south right next to Georgia. Also, the average overnight lows are only ever near freezing for anywhere during the winter months. The article implies that they are near freezing all year round, which is silly. Between Jun and Sep, nowhere on the table has a overnight low that is below 56F. There is only one place in the state that might get comparatively cold in the summer, and that is in the extreme east above 5000 ft and close to Mt Mitchell in North Carolina.

I think that it is likely that the statements about humidity and precipitation are also wrong, because of the different regions. It is very clear to anybody who has spent time in Tennessee that West TN is way more humid than East TN and the plateau area. From weather.com, you can see that rainfall is less than 36 inches annually for most of East TN and believe you will find the whole picture very different than the article says. I don't believe that West TN usually gets 5 inches of snowfall or that East TN gets 15 inches. I am very familiar with the areas involved and can state with certainty that for years, if places in West TN had a couple inches of snow it was a major event. The source for that snowfall information is a classroom handout. I haven't the time to check the weather.com web site right now but I think it is more reliable than that and will support what I wrote about the snowfall.

74.177.58.91 (talk) 10:42, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Cherokee Name in intro
I made a BOLD edit just now. Seeing that Cherokee is not an official language of Tenn, I have removed the Cherokee name from the lead, as per MOS. I think that the entomology section for this suffices. 23haveblue (talk) 15:40, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * What does entomology have to do with it? Given that Cherokee is a written language, and there is no dispute about the genealogy, I don't feel there is any reason to omit it. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  16:22, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, either there is an unknown insect genus called the Tanasi, or said user meant to say etymology, and is referring to our Name origin section. I don't see any reason to remove it, though it doesn't appear other states' articles have their root-language name in the lede.  Bms4880 (talk) 16:56, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * As it happens, the articles Hawaii and Nevada both discuss the name origin in the lead sections. Some state articles (e.g., Illinois and Oregon) have prominent sections about the origin of the state name, but the stories they tell are too complicated to be encapsulated in an article lead. --Orlady (talk) 17:48, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Changes in Religious Identification information since 2001.
While article cites ARIS 2001 data for religious identification, ARIS 2008 shows significant decline in the portion of the population that identify as Christian adherants, notibly the identification of Tennessee's Christians has fallen by 11 points to 76%(pp 22). This also coincides with the rise from 6% to 9% of the Nones, 1% to 3% of Muslims, and 3% to 5% of Don't know/refused responses.

http://commons.trincoll.edu/aris/publications/aris-2008-summary-report/

Witerat (talk) 02:02, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Links
In the information box at the top, the links for Governor, Lieutenant Governor, and U.S. Senate are not working. I tried to fix it, but I didn't know how. Any ideas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.192.26.224 (talk) 21:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Someone had removed "Tennessee" from the "Name" parameter at the top of the infobox. Bms4880 (talk) 21:21, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Unemployment rate
I changed the unemployment rate because it was wrong (8.4 not 9.1) see source: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/print.pl/news.release/metro.t01.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.41.85.239 (talk) 14:33, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Should the unempolyment rate be mentioned at all? The number goes up and down from year to year. What's the point of including it?Asburyparker (talk) 01:03, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Population changes must have a source
Henceforth, I'm going to revert any changes to the population figures or related items (largest city, etc.) that don't have a direct link to the source of the information. Simply stating the info was obtained from the census or Census Bureau website in the edit summary is not sufficient for a source. A direct link to the page or file containing the data must be provided. Note that the Census Bureau frequently releases data on population estimates and projections that are often misinterpreted as official population figures. Bms4880 (talk) 20:45, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090102215825/http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu:80/beef/tnbeefind.htm to http://animalscience.ag.utk.edu/beef/tnbeefind.htm

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Appalachian music
An anon has been attempting to remove mention of black influences on Appalachian music in this article. I don't want to hit 3RR, if someone else wouldn't mind keeping an eye on the article, or suggest a re-wording if the wording is confusing. I posted a message to the anon's IP talk page. African and African-American influences on Appalachian music have been pretty well documented (, e.g.). Bms4881 (talk) 00:27, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Departments
I am amazed not to find some summary of the tyoe and major divisions of government, particularly a listing of the departments. Is the state assembly bi-cameral? this seems a strange omission for an article about the state. Rags (talk) 15:04, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Duh! I see it, now.  I wasn't looking for "Governance."  Nothing wrong with that word, it's just not what I was seeking.
 * I assume that the "departments" fall under the executive branch, as in the federal government. I seem to remember that heads of department serve "at the pleasure of" ( are appointed by) the   governor.  I'll look at the TN homepage, and see if I can't put together a listing.  Rags (talk) 15:22, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
 * These are the cabinet-level departments within the executive branch, as near as I have been able to determine, so far. Most, if not all, are led by a commissioner appointed by the governor.


 * Department of Agriculture
 * Department of Children's Services
 * Department of Commerce and Insurance
 * Department of Correction
 * Department of Economic & Community Development
 * Department of Education
 * Department of Environment and Conservation
 * Department of Finance & Administration
 * Department of Financial Institutions
 * Department of General Services
 * Department of Health
 * Department of Human Resources
 * Department of Human Services
 * Department of Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities
 * Department of Labor and Workforce Development
 * Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services
 * Department of Military
 * Department of Revenue
 * Department of Safety (TDOS) and Homeland Security
 * Department of Tourist Development
 * Department of Transportation (TDOT)
 * Department of Veterans Affairs

The Executive Branch also comprises about 15 agencies, boards and commissions, some of which are under the auspices of one of the cabinet-level departments.


 * Please, if you know of one which I have omitted, add it. If one or more is not cabinet-level, please delete it.  Before "going live" with this list, I intend to consult the state "blue book", assuming the public library or the university library has one.  Rags (talk) 02:03, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Our library copy of the TN Blue Book is the 2013-2014 edition, (c)2013. All information has been doublechecked at SoS.TN.gov.  The Judicial Branch could stand to be expanded, and of course the "agencies, boards and commissions could be listed, etc.  Rags (talk) 00:23, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Tennessee Walking Horse
Shouldn't there be some mention of the Tennessee Walking Horse within the body of the article, maybe in Economy? They are a big money-earner for the state, and they're mentioned in my print encyclopedia. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 16:28, 5 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Pretty sure it falls under state symbols. Averagetennesseejoe (talk) 15:13, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Issue of misleading information and vandalism.
If you see something that is completely wrong, report it here, if it’s to the point of bombarding levels, request this article to be semi-protected. Averagetennesseejoe (talk) 19:48, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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2.5: Flora and Fauna
The only content of the section was a link "Further information: List of taxa described from Tennessee".
 * The link goes to an article that does not now exist, because it was moved on December 13, 2017 to a draft without a redirect (Draft:List of taxa described from Tennessee).
 * That draft article contains a list of only one entry, which in turn links to an article which does not exist.


 * A redirect was never provided to handle the move, but that is moot because the draft article has not been edited since it was moved in 2017. I have no idea if any work is planned to be done on the draft.

From what I have seen, Flora and Fauna and Taxa articles for other US States have been similarly moved and left without redirects.

The confusing state of the article(s) is misleading and a waste of time for people who use Wikipedia. They will only grow frustrated with WP, probably to the point of never visiting again, and that defeats the whole purpose of WP. There is no place for sections that are so devoid of content that they only consist of a link to a non-existent article, so I have removed the entire section 2.5 in this article.Twistlethrop (talk) 17:40, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

"Teenessee" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Teenessee. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 (talk) 23:04, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Tennessee for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Tennessee is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Tennessee until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 13:28, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Islam 1%?
Any resource for that?

The Pew Forum citation. Bneu2013 (talk) 20:25, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Notification: Housing in Tennessee
A request has been submitted to WikiProject Tennessee for a new article to be created on the topic of Housing in Tennessee. Please join the discussion or consider contributing to the new article. Best regards, -- M2545 (talk) 14:11, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

GA criteria
Bneu2013, thanks for working on the article! Unfortunately this is not ready for GA review yet. It currently meets the quick fail criterion due to having cleanup tags. The most obvious areas for improvement of the article are length (it's well over the recommended WP:Article size) and lack of citations for some statements. I strongly recommend substantially reducing the article length using WP:Summary style and making sure all article content has a reliable source before re-nominating. (t · c)  buidhe  20:24, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * - Full disclosure: I had actually planned to fix some of the existing issues, but went ahead and nominated because I didn't expect anyone to pick up the review this soon. The last two GAs I did took more than three months for someone to pick up. I feel like the history section definitely needs to be condensed, and possibly the economy and geography sections. Also, I believe some of the citations cover entire paragraphs, but there may be a few statements that I missed. I will take a look. Bneu2013 (talk) 22:58, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I would try to fix the problems then restore the GAN tag with the original date. I know the backlog can be a pain, but we're running a drive in July to cut back on it. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  01:35, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The article is currently 102 kB (16183 words). Keeping the article below 10,000 words is generally best for readability and ease of updating. So I would say that the article would benefit from cuts across the article although the history section would be a good place to start. I have also recommended splits for other sections that seem to have excessive detail for a top-level article. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  01:43, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I think I was editing despite the major edit banner :) Hopefully it doesn't cause you too much trouble. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  01:45, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * No problem, I actually unexpectedly got cut off for a while there, and should have removed it. But I am working now. Bneu2013 (talk) 02:48, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Update - - I have condensed much of the article, and fixed most of the missing citations; however, there are a few areas I am uncertain about. I will list them below.
 * Section lengths - Since Tennessee is a more topographically diverse state than average, it is only natural that the topography section will be longer than average. Since the state saw more activity during the Civil War (still looking for citation that it had the second-highest number of battles, but I know its out there), that section will also naturally be longer than normal. I think it is important to include information that Tennessee was not a typical Confederate state, which further lengthens the section.
 * Uncertain about whether or not article should include information about 2010 floods and 2011 tornadoes. Consensus has generally held that events like this should be omitted unless they can be proven to have played a major role in the state's history, or had national or international significance, and while the former is undoubtedly true of these events, they still seem to carry less weight than other disasters, such as the coal ash spill, train wreck, ship explosion, etc. They are also more typical than those events, and I don't think we need to list every single worst disaster in state history.
 * Still considering how to condense the Exploration and colonization and Statehood and antebellum era sections, but I still think most of the current content is crucial. I would like additional input, however, before any big changes are made.


 * I will also point out that while the recommended maximum article size is 10,000 words, this could probably pass GA with more. Although I'm not invoking wp:OTHERSTUFF here or trying to use this as a justification, I will point out that there are two other GA articles about US states, Massachusetts and South Dakota, and one FA, Virginia, and two of these articles exceed 10,000 words (Texas is also a GA, but it is definitely too long, among other issues, and I have nominated it for reassessment). Bneu2013 (talk) 08:57, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The Virginia article unfortunately is far from FA status right now. When it was promoted back in 2009, the article length was 49 kB (7643 words) and since then it doubled in size. Popular articles tend to attract lots of bloat if they don't have disciplined article watchers. You've definitely made progress on making this article more concise, but I think the history section has a lot of excess detail. For example, "In 1986, Tennessee held a yearlong celebration of the state's heritage and culture called "Homecoming '86". As part of the celebration, citizens of individual communities throughout the state researched their history, set future goals, conducted projects to preserve, promote, or enhance the quality of their respective communities, and organized other celebratory events." There's a dedicated history article so this article should try to only summarize the most information per WP:SUMMARY. Take Germany, a FA that does deserve its star. It has a much longer recorded history than Tennessee, but the section is much shorter because summary style is used. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  09:43, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Update - I have condensed the article down to under 14k words, but still have some more to do, mostly in the history section. I still feel like this could pass GA while exceeding 10k words, however, as it is a more extensive topic than most articles cover. Remember, not all articles are the same. I am going to wait until I have condensed the history section some more before renominating, however. Bneu2013 (talk) 09:09, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Update - I have condensed the article down to less than 13k words. Most of the sections are now at summary length, and read like other GAs. There seems to be a weak consensus that articles such as this can exceed 10k words and still pass GA if they do not go into excess detail. That being said, I will be removing the banner. I have got a little more to do before I renominate for GA. Bneu2013 (talk) 21:14, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
 * After further improvements, I've gone ahead and renominated the article. Any remaining issues shouldn't be that difficult to address. Bneu2013 (talk) 08:21, 23 July 2021 (UTC)