Talk:Terra-3

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I'd like more information on the Challenger incident. Political ramifications, whether the laser was fired on full power, etc. -Toptomcat 21:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

exists only in imagination of old man: Gen. Yuri Votintsev who is the only source of this information. There is no other confirmation (including NASA) that such an event ever occurred. Probably formrer Soviet military embittered that Soviet Union was defeated in Cold War told that nonsense to russian military magazine to boast yourself and soviet technology. How Votintsew could know the conditon of Shuttles crew during the ilumination?? He was not there! May be he was a ghost flying to orbit and back in 2 seconds??:) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pershing22 (talk • contribs) 20:31, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * "How Votintsew could know the conditon of Shuttles crew during the ilumination?? He was not there!" Fair enough, but you are equally in error to speculate about the motivation of Gen. Votintsev: "Probably formrer Soviet military embittered that Soviet Union was defeated in Cold War told that nonsense to russian military magazine to boast yourself and soviet technology."


 * Yuri Votintsev, and one more very little "insignificant" source, US government, who protested against this incident. It is a confirmed widely known incident.99.231.50.118 (talk) 00:40, 10 April 2009 (UTC)Pavel Golikov.

Nonsense and complete hoax. There is no confirmation in official US Shuttle mission reports and Department Of State records and in any other US sources. There was no such accident and no "diplomatic protest". I’ve tracked the matter VERY CAREFULLY over many sources and records. I’ve tracked also how this stupid information started to exist in Internet. First this information was placed in Jane’s Defence website edited by Steven Zaloga about 1995. That's what Mr Zaloga said on this information: "This is a Soviet claim, not from the US side. It is cited in the memoirs of a senior PVO-Strany officer (Col.Gen. Yuri Vointintsev) who wrote one of the better series of articles on their strategic defense program in Voenno-istorichesskiy zhurnal "Neizvestniye voiska ischeznuvshei sverkhderzhavy" (No. 11, 1993, p. 17) during a period of relative openess (as compared to today). Though whether it's true or not, I am not certain. I would be curious to learn if you discover more about it. Cheers! Steve Zaloga" So, short and clear. Everyone on other websites cites exactly text from english Wikipedia article concerning STS 41G mission. The source cited in Wikipedia is an article by Lieutenant Colonel Boris Kononenko (June 1996). "Federation of American Scientists - "Silent Space Is Being Monitored. I’ve read the article and got to know that Kononenko cites also memoirs of... Yuri Vointintsev:) So, Yuri Vointintsev is the original, first and the only source of this information. Very, very unreliable source. Why? First Soviet Union and its officials were known very well because of telling ordinary lies and a lot of propaganda. Next let’s analyze his memoirs: "In those days I was preparing a detailed report for the Minister of Defense on means being used to track the Shuttle flight and on results of Outer Space Monitoring System operation. Then, some time in the autumn of 1983, Marshal of the Soviet Union D. Ustinov called me on the Kremlin phone [kremlevka]: I have before me your report on work on the Shuttle. Tell me, why hasn't the experimental laser complex of General Designer Nikolay Ustinov been used?' Dmitriy Fedorovich was excited over his son's creation. At that time a team of 300 specialists was performing modifications on the complex, and I reported this to the Minister of Defense. And the experiment took place on 10 October 1984, during the Challenger's 13th flight, when its orbital revolutions were passing in the vicinity of the National Air Defense Troops state range near Lake Balkhash,”

Well, a little explanationJ Nikolay Ustinov was a son of Dimitriy Ustinov Soviet marshal and Ministry of Defence. He was General Designer at Sary Shagan complex because of his father rather then his engineering skills. Probably he lied a lot to father on laser facilities and its power. Dimitriy ordered to fire uncompleted and not working son’s laser so what could they do?? In Soviet reality they risked degradation, prison even death! Knowing USSR “standards” probably they simulated test and reported to marshal Ustinov that everything went well. After Ustinov senior death his son was simple fired very quickly.

"The Challenger crew later reported that as they were flying over the vicinity of Balkhash, communications on the craft suddenly shut down, malfunctions appeared in operation of gear, and the astronauts themselves did not feel quite well. The Americans began to investigate and soon realized that the crew had been subjected to some kind of artificial effect from our sideand lodged an official protest with the USSR. Based on humane considerations, the laser unit as well as a portion of the range's radiotechnical complexes having a high energy potential subsequently were not employed to track the Shuttles."

Ordinary lies! there were no such events reported in STS-41G mission reports nor in other NASA documents or astronauts memoirs. There is no evidence of “diplomatic protest” concerning such event in DoS records even in other US official documents. In 90s western experts visited Sary Shagan installation –its power was much more insufficient to do something more then tracking satellites during very good weather! Even completed in late 80s it was unable to do nothing more so “not employing full power because of humane considerations” sounds extreme laughable:)

So, Vointintsev’s tales seems to be a mythology created to boast his work and soviet technology. I thought we want to make Wikipedia a reliable source of confirmed and checked well information not to repeat old-times soviet propaganda! Placing this information as cretin knowledge is nothing more then informational abuse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pershing22 (talk • contribs) 20:56, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I see that you seem to deny the obvious fact that soviets had anti-sattelite capabilities with their lasers? Instead of claiming everything is a hoax, I suggest you read these:

http://www.astronautix.com/flights/sts41g.htm

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/6.13.html

http://www.g2mil.com/spacewar.htm

Besides, why do you think that commander of ABM forces of USSR would be lying? And why does the disagreement with him of some author will suffice to refute his claim? Please explain yourself.

" He was General Designer at Sary Shagan complex because of his father rather then his engineering skills. Probably he lied a lot to father on laser facilities and its power. Dimitriy ordered to fire uncompleted and not working son’s laser  so what could they do?? In Soviet reality they risked degradation, prison even death! Knowing USSR “standards” probably they simulated test and reported to marshal Ustinov that everything went well. After Ustinov senior death his son was simple fired very quickly."

Listen, talk like this will not get you anywhere. Your post is literally filled with moronic stereotypes that only the most idiotic american would have. Have you lived in USSR? No. I did. Have you heard of Glasnost'? Perestroyka? You just typed a lot of unsourced information that I have no reason to believe whatsoever. "In Soviet reality they risked degradation, prison even death!" In 1983???? Seriously? Save this kind of talk to american propaganda. In 1983 the situation was completely different. What you wrote would be possible in 50's, but definitely not in 80's. My advice to you: Do not show yourself to be a fool like that again please.

"I thought we want to make Wikipedia a reliable source of confirmed and checked well information not to repeat old-times soviet propaganda!"

As of now, there is much more american propaganda on wiki than soviet or russian, besides, there is NO reliable sources on internet, none whatsoever, except for official news reports, but those are archived on news channels, so wiki would be useless. Meanwhile, we can mention what was reported, and that is exactly what article does, it mentions that it is reported that terra-3 illuminated the shuttle. Do you have sources to prove it wrong? You have not given any. Are there sources confirming it? Yes, Astronautix, a very well made website with a lot of useful technical information.

The fact that you did not find anything does not imply anything whatsoever, it only implies that you were not looking correctly, or did not want to look properly. It is obvious to any sane person that information about such protests might not be recorded somewhere (although I think it would. Where did you look? Give me links please, not empty words). So, yes, depends on where you look, and how careful. I think it is beyond conclusion that soviets had anti-sattelite capabilities. What makes you believe they could not illuminate Shuttle? It was, after all, an easier task. Once again, we do not care whatsoever about what seems to be lie to you. You did not provide a single source for your opinion, and therefore I am adding and sourcing the material. Please do not delete it without a discussion, and certainly do not delete the sources, because that is not appreciated in wikipedia. To repeat: I sourced my material, from a fairly respected astronautix, you provided no sources whatsoever, and only called everything hoax and lies. Please support your opinion before making any changes to the page, or I will have to report. --99.231.50.118 (talk) 06:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)Pavel Golikov.

David Hoffman's Dead Hand goes into detail about the program. The astronautix information is wrong - Terra 3 apparently failed to even target a satelite. :( -IforgethowthesyntaxworksandIdon'thaveanaccountlolololol —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.104.41.112 (talk) 20:05, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Pro-Soviet POV and deliberate falsification of sources
I've refactored the above nonsense and restored the article to honestly report the content of the sources included, all three of which are legitimate and reliable under Wikipedia's guidelines. I don't know or care whether anybody thinks its unfair or unlikely or whatever else, the sources are reliable (Steven Zaloga in particular is a very eminent historian and expert) and the article faithfully reports their content. User:Pershing22 deliberately lied about and falsified the content of the sources in order to push a transparent (and frankly baffling) pro-Soviet POV; evidently he took the end of the Cold War pretty hard and isn't willing to let it go. You'd be surprised how many like him there are on Wikipedia.

I don't think he'll be back since he created the account specifically to fill this article with garbage (see WP:SPP) and then abandoned it in 2009, but if someone does it again, please report them directly to the Wikipedia Vandalism Noticeboard so we can see to it that they are permanently blocked from editing. Note he may also be editing under his IP address in an effort to avoid suspicion, but you can report his address at the same location above. Bravo Foxtrot (talk) 06:43, 20 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Can you clarify the statement at the start of your post? It's written "in universe", assuming the previous events are understood. For me, they're not...


 * You refer to "the sources included", but these also include sources that state the event never happened. Yet the article currently claims it did. So, BF, in the statement above are you saying that you believe the sources do support the claim of damage to the Shuttle? Maury Markowitz (talk)

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