Talk:Textile industry in Aachen

Close paraphrasing
RAJIVVASUDEV, I have found several sentences in the article which appear to be a WP:PARAPHRASE of Growth Deterrents of a Medieval Heritage: The Aachen-area Woolen Trades before 1790 by Herbert Kisch. Close paraphrasing is not allowed by the Copyright violations policy. Please can you either put the material into your own words or remove it. There may also be further examples that I have not found.
 * is a close paraphrase of
 * [removed] Kisch pp. 522–523


 * is a close paraphrase of
 * [removed] Kisch p. 517


 * is a close paraphrase of
 * [removed] Kisch p. 523

TSventon (talk) 16:10, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @ Noted. You want me to rewrite these paragraphs even if they are already attributed to the source? RV (talk) 16:20, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @ yes, I think they need to be rewritten as the Copyright violations policy says "Even inserting text copied with some changes can be a copyright violation if there is substantial linguistic similarity in creative language or sentence structure; this is known as close paraphrasing, which can also raise concerns about plagiarism. Such situations should be treated seriously, as copyright violations not only harm Wikipedia's redistributability, but also create legal issues." TSventon (talk) 16:26, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I'm afraid of losing something in translation/rewording but let me try if it is really necessary. Thanks RV (talk) 16:40, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

@ I have used Earwig's copyvio tool here and found another example
 * is a close paraphrase of
 * [removed] Kisch p. 519 TSventon (talk) 16:46, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It is obvious because the paragraphs belong to the said source, and inline citations are provided there. Anyhow let me give it a shot. Thanks RV (talk) 16:59, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @ I am not an expert on Wikipedia copyright policy, I just saw some odd phrases in the text, checked the references and then found that sentences in the article were closely paraphrased from the source. Anyway, Wikipedia articles should summarise their sources in the editor's own words rather than taking whole sentences from a source and then changing some of the words. I would recommend reading Close paraphrasing to understand the problem and in particular WP:FIXCLOSEPARA for how to fix it by taking notes from the source, writing a draft and then reviewing whether any of the draft is too closely paraphrased. TSventon (talk) 17:08, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @ |Earwig's Copyvio Detector score is well within the acceptable range. But I am redoing it as you suggested. Thanks RV (talk) 17:31, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

@, the copyuvio tool is a way to find copying, the score doesn't mean that a certain amount of copying is acceptable. It may not detect close paraphrasing as it isn't able to match strings of words if some of them have been replaced with words with a similar meaning. I have found some more paraphrased paragraphs, I struck through a couple of sentences that didn't match.
 * is a close paraphrase of
 * [removed] Kisch p. 532


 * is a close paraphrase of
 * [removed] Kisch p. 523


 * is a close paraphrase of
 * [removed] Kisch p. 520


 * is a close paraphrase of
 * [removed] Kisch p. 519 TSventon (talk) 22:24, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I have removed the long quotes from Kisch's article now the close paraphrasing has been dealt with. TSventon (talk) 23:49, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Daily life in the age of Charlemagne
RV, you will see that has challenged your reference for the time of Charlemagne, viz. I have also checked this. There are many mentions of Aachen in the book, but none appear to be in connection with cloth-making. Pages 86 and 87 are about cloth in Charlemagne’s domains, but do not mention Aachen (or Aix). Could you please quote for us the passage you are relying on? Moonraker (talk) 06:20, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi! Yes, I agree with TSventon that a specific mention of Aachen is missing. The present content with [| this edit] was revised as per comments. And the same is also mentioned in my today's edit on the template. "It is believed that the tradition of cloth manufacturing in Aachen dates back to the reign of Charlemagne." is cited with source no. 4, as per source "Its cloth manufacture boasted a tradition that supposedly reached back as far as the days of Charlemagne". Thanks RV (talk)
 * Thanks, RV, then you had better change “It is believed that” into “It is supposed that”, which is much less certain. And if you agree that Daily life in the age of Charlemagne says nothing relevant, you should delete it as a source relied on. Moonraker (talk) 08:06, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Moonraker Done. Thanks RV (talk) 01:44, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Encyclopedia of Textile Finishing
This is another of your citations, RV:

There is nothing on page 1. Can you give us the correct page, please. Moonraker (talk) 06:25, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Moonraker, Encyclopedia Of Textile Finishing |pages=1 of the source text "Aachen fine cloth Descriptive term of origin generally applied to high quality cloth and fabrics of pure wool. The worldwide reputation of Aachen quali¬ ty lies behind these original fabrics, produced in plain weave constructions from fine carded yarns based on very fine merino wools and finished with a fine closely napped surface. Such high quality fabrics were found¬ ed, above all, on Aachen’s thousand year old tradition as a cloth city. Since the turn of the century, however, Aachen has concentrated less on the production of carded wool fabrics and more on the manufacture of high quality worsted cloths, both piece-dyed and as fine worsted novelties." Thanks RV (talk) 06:42, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I already deleted that page 1 ref, along with the content it didn't support, in this diff. - Roxy the dog 06:51, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay,, but it’s still in the lead. Let’s see if RV can find a page in that which is relevant. Moonraker (talk) 08:00, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I've given up telling him that the lead doesn't need refs if the body supports. - Roxy the dog 08:25, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Roxy the dog, I think page 1 is correct as the page numbers are at the bottom of the pages. It is page 6 of the digitised version. The reference mentions "Aachen’s thousand year old tradition as a cloth city", which could support hook Alt0. TSventon (talk) 12:16, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Okay, so here is a citation that works for that page. I’ll add it. Moonraker (talk) 02:53, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * "Aachen fine cloth" definition, in Rouette, Hans-Karl, Encyclopedia of Textile Finishing, Elsevier, 1 June 2001, p. 1