Talk:The Cheese Store of Beverly Hills

a bit much
While it's not surprising to see Wikipedia articles that tend to be a little, ah, enthusiastic about their subjects, the list of "celebrity" shoppers seems a bit much, especially when it's longer than the rest of the article combined.--Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 15:13, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

er How is this not an advert?
Apparently because a lot of Hollywood celebrities buy (most likely at hugely inflated prices) their Camembert and cheddar from this business, what makes this article noteworthy?

A cheese shop that sells dairy products to the stars!

Wow. What's next on Wikipedia the Beverley Hills Drain Company? Which unblocked a few backed up systems for clients who include...yardy yardy yardy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.153.248 (talk) 15:16, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Why was there a list of "Notable" customers, surely the establishment should be "Notable" for the cheeses stocked, after all it's a bloody cheese shop, not a customer shop. Where a "celebrity" (who generally earns their living pretending to be someone else) shops, is of interest to whom precisely?== —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neilgreatorex (talk • contribs) 19:21, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Does Wikipedia allow commercial plugs like this?
This entire, long article appears to be a simply an advertisement for a commercial establishment. I agree with the above comment that this is just a commercial plug, and I wonder whether Wikipedia's guidelines allow this kind of thing?

I also wonder about the long list of "celebrity customers". It seems like a violation of their privacy to list them here. I seriously doubt whether they were contacted or gave permission for their names to be used as "endorsers" in what is in effect an advertisement for the store.

MelanieN (talk) 15:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC)MelanieN


 * Because they are public figures, they can be listed here under fair-use doctrines, but there is no indication they are "endorsing" the store. Having said all that, there's no independent way to verify this list, so I think it should be deleted. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 18:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Sheesh, give this article and editor some slack. The creator was not the person who nommed it for DYK and did not ask for all this scrutiny! doncram (talk) 23:08, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * So you see no problem with advertorials like this one? What about a few verifiable facts? This is a business, right? What's its turnover? Staff employed? Are you happy about statements like "According to its website, the store carries “the largest assortment of goat’s and sheep’s milk cheeses found anywhere"? --Malleus Fatuorum 23:18, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I wrote the article. I found all of the facts (which I made sure to cite) from magazine, newspaper, and other articles about the Cheese Store. I felt that, given the store's history and high profile, it deserved a page, as the store and its owner are often cited as experts in third-party publications. Since stores and restaurants such as Canter's, Pink's Hot Dogs, Rock n Roll Ralphs, and others had pages, I felt that the Cheese Store should too, especially in light of the fact that it is now often confused with the Cheese Store of Silverlake. If there's anything I can do to appease the grievances of those on this discussion page, please let me know with specific information and I will do my best to make the appropriate edits. Please note that in coming up with this article, I used many other similar entries as blueprints, which is why I originally had the Notable Customers list (several others had a similar list, although admittedly not so lengthy). Sorry if I got carried away, but I'm a huge cheese fan, and this store is known nationally, if not worldwide, for its cheese selection. StJenna (talk) 21:34, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * just count how many times "The Cheese Store of Beverly Hills" appears in the body of the article; it's difficult to believe that it's not an attempt at brainwashing, ;-) Also, this article is about a business, but there's almost nothing about the business in it, as I said above. --Malleus Fatuorum 21:43, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * As I mentioned, I was trying to differentiate between the Cheese Store of Beverly Hills and the Cheese Store of Silverlake, which is why I didn't just refer to it as "The Cheese Store" (which also sounded too generic, if you ask me). But if you like, I can definitely change some of the mentions to read "the store" or "CSBH," although I had originally avoided the latter as I wasn't sure if made-up (as opposed to official) abbreviations were acceptable. Please let me know how many times it is allowable to mention the shop by its full name and I will cut the mentions. What would you like me to add about the business? I'm not sure if I'll be able to find sources for everything you request, but I will definitely look. StJenna (talk) 21:52, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * There's no magic number that I can suggest, I'm simply saying that seeing "The Cheese Store of Beverly Hills" in almost every other sentence appears somewhat excessive. I'd avoid making up abbreviations like "CSBH" though, unless it's used by the business itself; a simple "they" or "the store" ought to suffice in most cases. I listed some of the details I'd expect to see in an article about a business above. --Malleus Fatuorum 21:59, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I've edited the number of times the full name is mentioned down from 8 to 4. However, in the course of my research, I did not see the number of employees mentioned, which is something I had looked for, as it is one of the facts listed in the company template. I did leave that outline there in case someone finds it. If I found one of the facts, I filled it in, unless the source material was old enough to be considered unreliable for current information. Is there anything else I can do to get the flag removed? StJenna (talk) 22:20, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, you can remove the flag yourself if you feel that the issues that caused it to be added have been addressed. Of course any other editor can just as easily stick it back on again. I find the History section to be a little puzzling though. It says "The Beverly Hills branch of Cheese Shop International, an East Coast-based franchise, was founded in 1967 by Colonel Sigmund Roth. In 1978, after a few years of the colonel’s declining health, Norbert Wabnig, who had worked at the store by day while pursuing his music career at night, purchased the business and changed its name to The Cheese Store of Beverly Hills." So Wabnig bought the franchise and was allowed to change its name? Seems unlikely; you wouldn't be allowed to change the name of a MacDonalds when you bought the franchise, for instance. --Malleus Fatuorum 22:46, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You need to take a critical look at the external links section as well, after reading WP:EL. Right now it looks like a linkfarm. --Malleus Fatuorum 22:58, 9 June 2009 (UTC)