Talk:The City and the Stars

I did my best to write a better article for this book, but I'm still not really happy with it. I think my own article is a bit too conversational. I also did not have the book with me (I borrowed it from school a month or two ago), and so I could not remember the name of the other city, along with a few other details. So, maybe somebody else could make it better.I put the text of the last article here because it covers the end of the book much better than my own, but... bah--maybe I just can't throw things away:

''The plot takes place mostly on Earth, in the far future. The novel's main character is Alvin, a denizen of the city of Diaspar. Diaspar is a technologically advanced but stagnant city. Alvin was the only denizen of Diaspar who had the courage to go out of the city, and he finally succeeds in leaving Diaspar. He found that the reality was very different from how everyone pictured it. Those who dared, had long since left for the stars. People in Diaspar did fear many things, but there appeared to be another danger, of which no one knew. A real danger, Mad Mind, who was destroying the Universe. To defeat Mad Mind, the people created Vanamonde, the development was started at the end of the 20th century, but nobody knew about it at the time. Vanamonde was very childish, it was bodyless and could move instantly to where the objects came. It was supposed to develop, until it could fight the Mad Mind.''

As it stands, I believe (I've been unable to get at my copy of either book for the last few days) the description of City and the Stars could stand as a fair description of either book, except I believe it was Jesserac who guided him to Lys in the original version of the book. That is why I've done a redirect page for Against the Fall of Night and added material about it. If this article isn't adequate coverage of both versions of a literary curiousity it could be. Jplatt39 13:13, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I never read anything about people's brains being stored in the computers in Against the Fall of Night. Did he add that to The City and the Stars?

Differences/comparison
Would it be a good idea to add a section on differences or comparison between the two books? (I haven't read AtFoN so I wouldn't know what to say ...) --Yar Kramer 19:39, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

The first three paragraphs are specific to the City and the Stars. The rest is roughly applicable to both books.

Scientific error?
The fortress of Shalmirane is used to destroy the moon when it is in danger of falling on Earth. But the moon is receding, at 38 millimetres per year according to Orbit of the Moon.

Is there some explanation in the text? If not, should the error be noted?

--GwydionM 21:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Ever heard of licencia poetica? :p --bonzi (talk) 11:37, 16 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't recall any mention or explanation for it, but Clarke may not have been aware or thought it insignificant or his version believable as fiction. Either way, I don't think its worth mentioning in the article. Lebroyl 23:06, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This book was written in the pre-space-age era. We discovered the fact that "the moon is receding", only after the Apollo moon landings.  Remember, sci-fi that attempts to predict scientific discoveries sometimes fall short when reality catches up with it.  Jason Palpatine 01:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Whereas laser light bouncing off mirrors left on the moon

show the "receding" it was long known before that the expenditure of energy on tidal forces weakens the earth moon gravitic coupling. Clarke admitted the mistake before Apollo.
 * Like many of the Elements in this novel this is a retelling of events from Olaf Stapledon's LAST AND FIRST MEN. In that seminal work the 5th Human species "accidentally" knocks the moon out of Orbit and has to flee Earth.  The Moon's collision course with Earth may be a manifestation of the Mad Mind's attempt destroy the home world humanity.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chimpstop (talk • contribs) 05:11, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, there are some hints in the text, but they are only vague - amidst the battles with the Mad Mind, due to gravity and tides, the Moon started to get closer to Earth and they needed to destroy it. You can read that as a hint that the Mad Mind did something to the Moon, otherwise why should it start to get closer to Earth only at that point. However, the text is not explicit about that.89.137.186.101 (talk) 20:12, 2 October 2012 (UTC)Apass


 * The book states that the battles between the races of the galaxy and the Mad Mind took place among the starts and drained most of them of their energy.

I really love this book, but there is one scientific plot hole that keeps bothering me when I read it (in multiple times): There shouldn't be any oxygen left on earth after a billion years when the oceans are gone and the place is a total desert. In fact, I think the atmosphere would have leaked out before the oceans are gone. Lys is an impossibility. The city should be hermetically sealed if it is to function at all. Lohengrin9 (talk) 18:24, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Clarke suggests in the book that the oceans were under the deserts. Mars and Venus both have atmospheres, but no water. It is believed throughout scifi that Mars' weak atmosphere could be enhanced up to that of earth's although the effort to maintain it would need to be continual.

Strange that Khedron who could not stand looking at the model of the city from outside had no problem looking at the image of the city when it was open a billion years ago.Lohengrin9 (talk) 09:51, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Country
I believe that the country in the infobox should be the United States, rather than the revision to England. I think that the country is not that of Clarke's nationality, but of where the book was published. Not changing it becuase I'm not sure. Lebroyl 18:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Very true the country is supposed to be where the book was first published. The authors nationality would more than likely be in there own page. Harcourt is a US based company so I'll change it Jask99 17:02, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The book was first published in the UK, as one would expect, in 1956. The reference details have been corrected, although I haven't been able to find an ISBN for that particular edition. Wiki-Ed (talk) 12:56, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:The City and the Stars hardcover.jpg
Image:The City and the Stars hardcover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Hilvar brings Vanamonde back to Earth
"They encounter Vanamonde, a being of pure intellect, with whom Hilvar, being telepathic like other Lys people, can communicate and bring him back to Earth."

Vanamonde is long "back" on Earth when Alvin and Hilvar return, Hilvar hardly brought it back... (The City and the Stars version) Minusf (talk) 15:23, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:22, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

24.115.155.247 (talk) 13:24, 8 April 2008 (UTC) In march 2002 I recieved a return letter from Arthur C. Clarke in relation to C.A.T.S. He stated that the Novel C.A.T.S. was NEVER turned into a movie. I claimed that as a kid in Yonkers, N.Y. I saw on WPIX channel 11 a TV movie of this Novel! The date would of been around 1959~61 ????????? Does anyone else out there in the world rememeber this movie? Regards, Donald T. DiNaro dtdinaro@ptd.net 24.115.155.247 (talk) 13:24, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Scifipedia article.
Here is an article from the defunct scifipedia which may be usefull before it totally disapears from the net.

Anyway here is the terms :

Subject to the terms and conditions of these Terms of Use, SCI FI hereby grants you a royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual license in all media now known or hereafter devised for the following:
 * reproduce one or more SCIFIPEDIA entries or articles on a website or other publication which may be made available to the public, so long as you link to the original entries and identify the source, and so long as you do not use this SCIFIPEDIA material in any manner that is primarily intended for or directed toward commercial advantage;

The City and the Stars

The City and the Stars is a 1956 novel by Arthur C. Clarke. It was a rewrite of his first novel, Against the Fall of Night, which was written between 1937 and 1946, and which, according to Clarke, "had most of the defects of a first novel." He was motivated to rewrite the story by technological innovations, especially by "certain developments in information theory (which) suggested revolutions in the human way of life even more profound than those which atomic energy is already introducing." The story takes place on Earth, one billion years into the future. The hero is Alvin, who lives in the domed city Diaspor. The people of Diaspor believe that the human race, a billion years earlier, had established a vast galactic empire, only to be thrown back to their own solar system by an alien race remembered only as the "invaders." The survival of Earth was guaranteed at the battle of Shilmarine, but what was left of the human race had to be confined to this one city of Diaspar. Outside the city walls the rest of the planet had become a desert—desolate and barren of life. Meanwhile, the inhabitants of Diaspar lack for nothing; human science has advanced to the point where lifespans are centuries long, where people never age, where people are created by the central computer rather than born (hence no infancy or childhood). When a person dies, his or her consciousness goes back into the central computer, to be reincarnated in another body in about 50,000 years' time (a kind of serial immortality). For entertainment, the residents of Diaspar have virtual-reality adventures, philosophy, and art, and guilt-free sex.

Spoiler Warning: Plot details and/or information about the ending follow. If you wish to enjoy the work first, stop reading here and return at another time.

On his twentieth birthday, Alvin is told by his adopted parents and his tutor that he is a "unique," meaning he had no previous incarnations in Diaspor (normally, the memories of past lives would start to surface after someone was 20 or 30 years old). He is the first unique created in Diaspar in 10 million years. Alvin is filled with a restless, adventurous spirit that his comrades lack; he wants desperately to see what is outside the city. He begins searching the city’s air tunnels that lead to the outside; although he can see the desert far below, the grates are impassable. Finally a "jester" named Khedron makes contact with him and shows him the building that houses the central computer. There the two men access a four-dimensional (time and space) map of the city, going all the way back to the days when the city was built, a billion years earlier. With this information, they discover that there is a way out of the city, though Khedron is too frightened to follow Alvin on his adventure. Outside the city, Alvin eventually discovers that there are in fact other humans who have survived, as well as some very strange aliens. This novel bears some similarity to the later story Logan's Run, in that the hero escapes from an enclosed city to explore a hostile world outside.

Alma-Tadema (talk) 00:32, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I added this into the Category:1950s science fiction novels. Transcendentalist01 (talk) 19:31, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Beyond the Fall of Night
The current version of the article makes it looks like Beyond the Fall of Night is a sequel to The City and the Stars, which is not true as it is intended as a sequel to Against the Fall of Night. The summary box hides the fact that (the new part of) Beyond the Fall of Night was not written by Clarke. And this paragraph in the article is misleading

where "both of the books" looks like it refers to the two previously mentioned books (Beyond the Fall of Night and The City and the Stars), but is meant to refer to The City and the Stars and Against the Fall of Night.

Is there evidence that Beyond the Fall of Night is anything other fan fiction? In any case, for the reasons above I don't think it merits a prominent place in this article. Consequently I've demoted it to a mention at the end.


 * I think [13:27, 23 March 2015‎ Alex Selby ] should be added to the above. 82.44.143.26 (talk) 18:28, 22 January 2020 (UTC)