Talk:The Good Place season 3

Episode Numbering
I don't remember if there was a chapter card in the middle of the the 1 hour premiere of Season 3, but among the reliable outside sources for the episode numbering - such as the TVDB and the NBC website - that episode is not in two-parts. Even the link that is on this page, to the ratings, shows it as a single episode. So while it may have subsections, I think "Everything is Bonzer" should be listed as a single episode, numerically. CleverTitania (talk) 23:12, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I believe it did have a chapter card, and that should really be the decider. Season 2 did the same thing, and we also list that as a two-part episode. — Bilorv(c)(talk) 23:21, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
 * The most important fact is that NBC ordered 13 episodes, not 12. Just like season 2, the one-hour premiere is two episodes. Drovethrughosts (talk) 12:11, 15 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the additional data Drovethrughosts. Not that I was inclined to argue with Bilorv's points, but I agree that a distinction like that is most important, much how issues of recurring vs. regular is something we defer to contracts and production-industry-specific sources on, rather than on-screen credits. CleverTitania (talk) 21:19, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

NBC and Netflix both list season 2 as having 12 episodes - not 13 like Wikipedia (I would think broadcasters own episode numbering should be the final authority here!) And it seems like Wikipedia is on track to once again incorrectly add an extra episode to Season 3. I say the broadcaster should be the authority - not Wikipedia. These are "episodes" not "chapter cards".


 * The fact is, The Good Place contains seasons each of 13 episodes, not 12. When it was renewed for a second season, it was for 13, not 12. It's same as thing again this year. If you count the premiere as one episode, the numbering is simply wrong. When a half-hour series produces an hour-long episode, it's considered two separate episodes at the end of the day. The Office was a perfect example of the this, as it produced several hour-longs. If you look at NBC's press website, you'll see the episode numbers reflected; "Everything is Bonzer!" is labeled as 301 and 302. Drovethrughosts (talk) 16:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

With regards to the ratings, its common for ratings websites to average out the hour if two episodes of the same half hour show have aired. Or if two one hour episodes of the same show have aired. If I remember right the first two episodes were a 1.0/0.9. This averaged out to a 1.0 in the finals, because the second episode was a fairly strong 0.9(Something like a 0.94). Esuka323 (talk) 21:50, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Here's the fast nationals listing for the first two episodes, which clearly shows two separate episodes. Esuka323 (talk) 19:22, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

I fail to see a valid rational how this can be considered two episodes. It aired as one episode; it's listed on CBS as 1 episode; it's listed on Netflix as 1 episode. You can't just make up a numbering system that contradicts what's actually shown, regardless of if and what the production orders were. --Gonnym (talk) 07:54, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes – "produced episodes" ≠ "broadcast episodes". The broadcaster (i.e. the network, in this case NBC) ultimately gets to decide how many "episodes: there are. There's a reason we also include prod. codes, but produced episodes doesn't "determine" how many episodes there really are. So Drovethrughosts' claims above are false – we don't go by "produced episodes" on Wikipedia, but by broadcast episodes. Please see this related WP:TV discussion. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:41, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Good Place gets 13-episode renewals and they make 13 episodes a season. To short them an episode is incorrect just because the premiere airs as a back-to-back episode. The Office did this all the time, and they are still officially counted as two episodes. Mike Schur, creator of The Good Place, specifically states "53 episodes" when announcing the end of the series; 13+13+13+14=53 (the final season has an extra episode for the finale). I don't care how the double-length episode are displayed in the table, in one row if you want, but the numbers need to be correct, which is 13. Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:01, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Can you produce the sources which show that series episode number 30 is actually "The Snowplow"? Because the official site shows it's actually "The Ballad of Donkey Doug" (13 + 12 + 5). That's a two episode difference. Mike Schur is correct, he filmed 53 ordered episodes, which then Fremulon, Universal Television, or NBC (or even Schur himself) decided to air as 12 episodes per season instead of 13. Even more sources: The DVD has 12 episodes; Amazon has it as 12 episodes; iTunes has it as 12 episodes. You can't just make up an episode numbering which has no real-world validity. --Gonnym (talk) 14:18, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * "The Snowplow" is listed as episode 304 (season 3, episode 4) in the photo gallery on NBC's website (hover over photo for caption) and is listed as episode 4 in various other reliable sources:
 * Futon Critic press release
 * The Good Place Recap Season 3, Episode 4: ‘The Snowplow’ via Vulture
 * 'The Good Place' Season 3, Episode 4 Recap: 'The Snowplow' via Forbes
 * The Good Place episode 4 recap: “The Snowplow” hits reset (again) via Vox
 * ‘The Good Place’ Recap: Season 3, Episode 4 — ‘The Snowplow’ via TVLine
 * The Good Place - Season 3 Episode 4 via Rotten Tomatoes.


 * I'm not making up any numbering; there's a reason why Schur states there's 53 episodes and when NBC renewed it for season 3, it was for 13 episodes – "will be back for another 13 episodes" (13, just like S2's 13); other sources stating 13:  . Drovethrughosts (talk) 17:12, 18 November 2019 (UTC)


 * WP:OSE – plenty of TV show article do not follow what is WP:TV practice on this issue, but that doesn't make it right. Again, "produced episodes" ≠ "broadcast episodes". We are suppose to list broadcast episodes in the episode table. That's why we also include the prod. codes column – to also allow readers to track "produced" episodes (otherwise, why bother if all we do is list produced episodes?!). But we're supposed to track broadcast episodes in the table, as per broadcast episode crediting: one set of credits = "one broadcast episode", two sets of credits = "two episodes". This can easily be handled in prose – something like, "Thirteen episodes were ordered,[cite] which were broadcast as twelve episodes..." Something like this. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:20, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Production codes are meant to show if episodes are broadcast out of order. I've personally never seen an instance where a "broadcast" episode is different than a "produced" episode; an episode is an episode. As for one one set of credits, the season 2 and 3 premieres list two sets of writing credits where it credits the different writer for each part; if it were one episode, they would be credited together. I also looked at the season 1 premiere, which was also broadcast as a "singular" episode, where it has two sets of credits noting the different chapters. The Writers Guild of America page for the series lists different entries for both parts of two-part episodes. Season 1 premiered with two episodes on the same night, and it's two episodes; seasons 2 and 3 premiered with two episodes with the same episode title, labeled as parts 1 and 2 and is one episode (per your argument); and season 4 premiered with one episode, but is part 1 of 2. So, if the first two episodes of season 4 aired on the same night, would they become one episode then? It's also too confusing. I've made all the points I could possibly make and it's likely you're staying with your stance, so I suggest instead of arguing further, we try and make some sort of compromise. Drovethrughosts (talk) 17:11, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * No, that's not what we mean: "one set of credits" means front-credits at the beginning, no end-credits & then beginning-credits at the halfway point (~minute #30), and then one single end-credits ~minute 60. Two credits means front-credits, end-credits before ~minute 30, front-credits for second episode after ~minute 30, end-credits for second episode ~60 minutes. The former means one episode – "Part 1"/"Part 2" crediting at the beginning doesn't have any bearing on this. You seem to believe that produced episodes always equals "total number of episodes" – this is wrong. Some shows will combine two "production episodes" into one double-length "broadcast" episode.... Now I can't speak to Esuka's point, because I don't watch this series. But the whole concept that "produced episodes" necessarily equals "broadcast episodes" is dead wrong. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 22:25, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Funny enough, your vox source actually has it right Take “The Snowplow” — season three’s fourth episode produced, though only its third to air, since the first two aired as a single hour - which is exactly the point, this is the 3rd episode aired. --Gonnym (talk) 23:21, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * When the episodes were originally broadcast on NBC they had two chapter credits and two sets of writer & director credits. It wasn't just one long episode. I'm not sure if you watch the show but after the title screen you see "Chapter number here". We're currently on Chapter 47 in season four and each episode is called a Chapter. Esuka (talk) 16:13, 18 November 2019 (UTC)