Talk:The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

Untitled
Set Album to Class B & Top Importance Megamanic 08:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Who wrote what?
I removed the claim that Gabriel wrote "Carpet Crawlers" on his own. I've heard that Gabriel wrote all or most of the music to "Counting Out Time" and "The Chamber of 32 Doors", but I don't think he wrote the "Carpet Crawlers" music. If someone wants to put this claim back in, make sure you have a reliable source for it.


 * It's dubious to make such claims anyways, since legally, all 5 members own an equal share of the writing credits.--feline1 12:13, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * he just worked on the music for Counting out Time, the rest was made by the rest of the band.


 * yeah, i'm fairly certain he DIDN'T write "Carpet Crawlers," but according to the annotated lamb lies down on broadway (you can find it under external links) "Counting Out Time" was written solely by Gabriel. i never heard anything about "The Chamber of 32 Doors."


 * What is certain is that Gabriel wrote *all* the lyrics with the exception of "The Light Dies Down On Broadway", which were written by Mike and Tony to save time. "The smell of acid on his gun of paint" - yeuch! MarkRae (talk) 15:27, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Enossification
The article says Eno mainly just treated the vocals on "Grand Parade...". What's the source for this? I can hear plenty more stuff which sounds like it went through Eno's Synthi AKS filters on this album...


 * I see what you mean - the acoustic piano intro to the album sounds like it may have been fed through Eno's synth patching (but don't quote me on it!); and definetly Steve Hackett's guitar solo on Counting Out Time (you can definetly hear the Enosifficated effects on that!).


 * Nope. What you're hearing on Counting Out Time is Steve's "new toy", the Synthi Hi-Fly guitar synth (http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2006/05/ems-synthi-hi-fli-guitar-synth.html). Steve was fascinated by this at the time of the Lamb recordings (a welcome diversion from his ongoing divorce at the time) and wanted to use it all over the album, much to the irritation of the others. During the solo in Counting Out Time, you can hear Gabriel say "Put it away, Mr Guitar!". MarkRae (talk) 15:34, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * collins said in an interview that Eno was next door while gabriel was working on the vocals for the grand parade of lifeless packaging, and his name was put in the credits on a whim and the other members (i think Banks in particular) were somewhat dismayed he got credit as people would assume he did more than just lend gabriel his synth for that one track. it's in the annotated lamb lies down on broadway (search within that page for "enossification"). note that the music was recorded before the lyrics were written, and the music was recorded in a different studio than the vocals.

underground realm?
I edited the section which said that the story took place in an "underground realm". In fact the opening song includes the line "And out of the subway, Rael imperial aerosol kid, exits into daylight spraygun hid." Rather than a subterranean world, the story takes place in what would better be described as an alternative dimension. The original article also made no mention of the major theme of duality with the album culminating in Rael's realization that he is John.


 * In the Genesis Archives 1967-1975 box, "The Lamb Live" discs, Peter Gabriel says in the intro: "Our hero, named Rael, crawls out of the subways of New York city, and is sucked into the wall, to regain conciousness underground".


 * It is also frequently referred to in the music as the cave's or the underground. Sure it may very well be another dimension, but it's one that's underground. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.205.84 (talk) 02:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I've seen the musical box...
and i can relate the story of the lamb completely. but im not sure how to cite that. i can also tell you that after seeing them it becomes fairly obvious that the lamb was written for live performances (particulairily on Broadway Melody and waiting room). the purpose of broadway melody is to give gabriel time to get off stage throw off his jacket and appear on the other side. and as for the waiting room thats to go with the pictures that are being projected on stage. so let me know how to cite the story and ill write it up.

I removed the following from the article. --Shepard 02:40, 29 March 2006 (UTC)


 * It wasn't written FOR live performance, perhaps sequenced that way, though. All the music was written before the story was even written- Steve, Mike, Tony and Phil wrote all the music on their own, and Peter wrote the lyrics to it afterwards. It's not like they wrote those instrumentals for the sole purpose of costume changes. "The Waiting Room" seemed to be the piece that the band was most proud of, so I dare say that the projected pictures were set up for the sole purpose of complementing that instrumental. --Progjunky 01:10, 07 November 2006 (UTC)

And in addition to that, The Waiting Room was just a jam, it wasn't written as a companion piece to anything. (They originally called it "The Evil Jam") But it's great that you got to go and see The Musical Box. I wish I would have had that chance.

Like father like son, nor flesh nor fish nor bone. I am Teh_Squonkz 06:30, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Full Album Walkthrough

 * (note - this is an interpretation based on listening to the music, reading the lyrics, and reading the textual "music video" to the album in the booklet. IT IS NOT OFFICIAL. It is only an interpretation. Please enjoy.)


 * (note 9/17: this, not on the main page, is the place for this. Plot summary should be removed from the main article entirely.)*** — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.41.185 (talk) 23:48, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

(SIDE 1)

1)The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway - The main protagonist (Rael, a Puerto-Rican punk) exists the subway with a spraycan in his hand. He had just finished tagging the wall, and is currently focusing on avoiding the cops until he can get back to his gang. He continues to walk down Broadway.

2)Fly on a Windshield - Eventually Rael notices a very dark cloud desending onto the street. It solidifies, forming a wall with reflections of another dimension on it. He looks around but no one else around him even seems to notice it. The wall moves quickly straight for Rael. He turns and runs, but wind blasts into his face, slowing him down. As dust is whipped up into the air, it settles onto Rael's clothing and hardens. He can't move, and becomes the equivelent to a fly waiting for the winshield on the freeway - a sitting duck. As the wall hits him, he is flooded with memories of seeming randomness. Emotion whirls around him and he loses grasp of his situation.

3)Broadway Melody of 1974 - Seemingly random memories of events having to do with New York and Broadway fill his mind, and hes sees all of it as he is carried away from that world.

4)Cuckoo Cocoon - Rael regains consiousness in a dark environment, wrapped up in a cocoon of sorts (made of powdered wool). He wonders for a while where he is and wether or not he is dead, but decides that he is still him, and alive.

5)In the Cage - However, despite the traumatizing events, the cocoon feels very nice, and he drifts off to sleep. Later, he wakes up and the cocoon is no longer there. He feels disgusting and sick. He looks around and realizes that he is actually in a cave of some sort. Howver, when he walks around, the stalactites and stalagmites grow and connect, forming a cage, and he cannot escape. He panics, and looks around frantically. He thinks that if he can keep his self control, he'll be okay, but eventually he falls back into fear. He looks around and sees other "cages" connected into different stars. Then he notices his brother John, and cries out for help, but his brother is too scared and doesn't even attept to help him. This is the first time his brother betrays him. As John leaves, the cage opens up, but Rael begins spinning like a top. He moves faster and faster until he blacks out.

6)The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging - He wakes up in a contemporary corridor, and there is a saleswoman at the end of it. She gives a sales-pitch about this new revolutionary product, and Rael is sent to the factory floor. He looks around and sees people wrapped up and put on display. However, there is something different about them. They are all people he knows! He sees all the members of his gang, and then comes upon his brother, who has the number nine stamped on his forehead. He turns around and runs in absolute panic and blacks out again.

7)Back in N.Y.C - (Note - the next three songs are a flashback) Rael sees himself back in NYC in his gang and we learn a bit about his life. He was released from Pontiac Penitentiary at age 17, and only then did he get respect from his gang, The Pack. We see how he lives through life, acting aggressive towards everything.

8)Hairless Heart - Rael then has a vision of his heart exiting his chest. It is covered in hair (symbolizing the mess of his former life clouding what his heart really wants) All the hair is then shaved off by a sleek, annonymous razor, and the organ is returned to his body, beating out the steps to his life from then on.

9)Counting Out Time - This is put to the test as Rael relives his first sexual encounter, as the heart counts out the beats to each step in the process of a night out.

10)Carpet Crawlers - Rael once again regains consiousness in the corridor, but instead of the saleslady, there are now people on the floor, all crawling to get to the door at the end. "That door leads to the exit," they all say. "You have to get in that room to get out of here." Not questioning why he doesn't have to crawl, Rael boldly walks up, opens the door, and enters the room.

11)The Chamber of 32 Doors - Inside is a spiral staircase which leads to a circular chamber which, as Rael finds out, has thirty-two doors, but only one leading to the exit. There are tons of people inside, all arguing over what door they should choose, and Rael has no idea who he should trust.

(SIDE 2)

12)Lilywhite Lilith - Rael eventually notices a very pale woman sitting away from the group. she says that she's blind, but if he will help her through the crowd, she can show him the way out. They enter a door (which everyone ignores, believing it's destined for failure) and move through a dark passageway. Rael stumbles, but Lilith, despites her blindness, walks confidently. They eventually reach a dark room with rocks on the floor. She sits Rale on a very large one, and tells him, "Do not be afraid. I'm going to get him. Wait here and try not to be frightened." and then exits into the darkness.

13)The Waiting Room - Soon there is light at one end of the room, the light is too bright, and it irritates Rael, but it continues to grow. As the light bounces of the walls in to room, it completely blinds Rale and he cannot see anything. He begins to loose control of other senses when he grabs a rock and hurls it at the brightest point. The lights go out instantly and Rael can see that they were two orbs as the exit. He is halliy flooded with all of his senses returned and walks around for a while, but a resounding crack from the cieling drops a trap on him.

14)Anyway - Rael desends into dpression then, thinking, well, this is it. I'm finished. He continues his thoughts of misery and rambles off a dying man's thoughts. However, he soon hears a voice saying "Good morning Rael. So sorry you had to wait. It won't be long. She's very rarely late.

15)Here Comes the Supernatural Anaesthetist - Lilith returns and happily introduces her friend, Death, by his nick-name. She goes on and on about how much he can help you. Then her friend enters, sprays some perfume on Rael, and leaves.

16)The Lamia - As Rael is let out of his trap, he notices the perfume is distributed unevenly around the room. He moves to the place where it is the thickes and finds a crack in the wall that he can fit through. On the other side, he finds a beutiful passageway, with chandeliers lining it. As he continues down it, he enters a chember with a pool of necter.  Thinking that he's alone, he begins to enter the nectar, but before he can, ripples form and he realizes that his isn't the only one there. Out of the water come three large snakes with female (human) faces. They explain how they have watched him on his journey, and love him deeply. Rael is horrified at first, but he is drawn to their beauty. They esk him to refressh by drinking some of the nectar. He instantly trusts them, undressing and entering the pool. As his drinks the nectar, they scan him with their tongues and judge him. Then they begin to nibble on his skin, but he feels no pain. As the first blood enters their mouths, they cry out and die. Rael desperately tries to find some signs of life, but they have passed. He then vows that they have not died in vain. He gathers their bodies and carries them with him as nourishment on his long journey. They took him inside them, so he will do the same in time.

17)Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats - Rael fins a boat and travels across the pool and finds an exit from the chamber on the other side.

18)The Colony of Slippermen -

a)The Arrival -

Rael soon sees some hideously deformed people as he passes out of the Lamia's chamber. However, it is he who they all point and laugh at. A man explains, "We all went through the exact same experience. The Lamia regenerate each time, ready to trick the next traveller. And this," he gestures towards himself, "is what happens." He shows Rael his own reflection and he sees that he, too, has become a slipperman. As he looks into the crowd, he notices whats left of his brother, and runs up to him. They both hug, and find out that the only way to fix what the Lamia have done, is visit the notorious Doktor Dyper, and have a "removal of the senses." In other words, castration. They both decide that it is for the better and make the trip.

b)A Visit to the Doctor -

Rael and John both go through the operation, through a hilarious depiction in the lyrics, and get there former parts in a golden tube each, in which the Doktor suggests they wear it around their necks.

c)The Raven -

Soon a large, dark bird swoops down and snatches up Rael's tube. He shouts, "Come on, John! Help me get it!" but John refuses. He says, "In the Colony of Slippermen, you learn not to follow the Raven. That is where danger lies." This is the second time his brother betrays him. Rael takes off after the bird, and as he just about reaches it, it soars over an enormous ravine and drops it nonchalantly into a river.

19)Ravine - Rael despairs at the loss of it. He walks around the ravine aimlessly, but a sight makes him jump for joy.

20)The Light Dies Down on Broadway - Rael sees a window back home. Broadway. He sees all of the life he had before. This was his one chance to get out of theis crazy dimension. He takes off in a mad dash, but he hears some struggles in the water. It's his brother John. It's time to make a decision. To return to the freedom of his other life, or to save the brother that deserted him twice.

21)Riding The Scree - Rael sprints down the ravine towards the river and jumps into the rapids.

22)In the Rapids - As he swims through the rapids to save his brother, he dodges bolders and rocks, trying to stay in control. He knocks John unconsious to make the rescue easier, and drags him to the shore. "Hang on John!" he cries when they reach the shore. "We're almost out of this!" But then he notices that it isn't his brother's face he's looking at. It's his own!

23)it - As Rael's consiousness fades back and forth between the two bodies, they eventually merge into one, and Rael desolves into notheing, becoming it. it is everything. Broadway, the new dimesion, the universe, everything. Rael becomes one with time, space, and himself, and all is finally right with the world.

''I thank you for reading this. I've tried my best to make sense of everything, but the instrumentals are still up for interpretation. I also recommend rereading the lyrics to the album after reading this. Everything will seem much clearer. Long Live Prog-Rock! ~Prog_head ''
 * Great job, but as this falls under the classification of original research, it unfortunately can't stay in the article. If you or someone else can find verifiable sources that flesh out the plot points, by all means use those.  --cholmes75 (chit chat) 21:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I cited the lyrics and short story written by Peter Gabriel that comes with the album. However, I see your point and understand. (I do strongly recommend you reading the booklet for the album, though) --Prog_head
 * Well there are one or two studies about the album, and one of them (wich i find to be the most interesting)find the album to be an autobiographic take on Gabriel's life. Cos all in all, this is pretty much Gabriel's first solo album, in retrospective.


 * Thanks. That is really interesting. I wrote my own interpretation years ago (once again, original research and not fit for an encyclopaedia.)  I no longer have the little file I wrote but aspects of it were that the title track (LLDOB) was based on an O. Henry short story (which I think was called Vagabond on Broadway) about a man looking for the heart of each city.  He cannot find New York's heart until run over by a horse and carriage, at which point people come to his aid and he realises they do care.  "Get your finger out of my eye" from the liner notes comes from Well's Invisible Man and so on...  In essence, my take on the plot is as follows:


 * Rael stumbles out of subway either stoned or otherwise in a vulnerable state. He sees vision of Jesus and is hit by car (metaphorically, the consuming wall.)  He then lies in a coma, his life flashing before his eyes on a symbolic level (he is awakened from the dream in which the rest of the NY people live.)


 * His life flashing before his eyes encompasses his birth from the womb (the Cuckoo Cocoon), a violent childhood (the mother's milk becomes sour poison) and he is trapped in an uncaring society and, ultimately, gang warfare(the cage) which leads him to see both commercial capitalism (Grand Parade) and socialism (Back in NYC) as empty, meaningless ideologies for someone like him.


 * He alternates between his dream state and reality in songs like Counting Out Time and Back in NYC which seem to be set once more in the real world.


 * Having reviewed his life, he now must make decisions about his future path (Chamber of 32 Doors) which leads to him seeking a guide (amongst false prophets like the Drunk Monk and Lilith). Interestingly, he seems to be the only one who can move freely and make his own decisions by Carpet Crawlers as everyone else is pulled up the magent, still seemingly in the NYC dream. Nonetheless, rejecting false prophets, he ultimately chooses to save Brother John (another metaphor for Jesus - see the 1971 film, "Brother John" starring Sidney Poitier).  The Lamb may have seemed out of place on Broadway but it is ultimately Rael's key to finding salvation.  His sacrifice ties to Christian theology (slightly inverting it).  Jesus dies sacrificially to give us life but in this, Man dies trying to save Jesus and ultimately saves himself via this sacrifice. Interestingly, Jesus is typically more "brother" than "lord" in this and is ultimately identified as being one with John himself - I am sure real theologians could write volumes on that!  :-)


 * I have read on some other cites, (I think it was the Anecdotal Lamb page), that if Rael had not decided to save Brother John and had himself gone through the skylight, he would have been back on New York at the moment the car hit again and the story would replace as a loop, possibly indicated by the fact the liner notes start repeating themselves at the end. "it" functions as both humorous word play, puncturing pomposity, and a glimpse of a heaven beyond the limits of language.


 * As I said, all of this is just original research and I can't remember half of what I wrote originally but I hope this gives you the gist of my interpretation. Cheers, D. Le Sage.  210.50.56.47 (talk) 04:49, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Brian Eno's contribution
I would take specific exception with the following from the "Detailed Description":

"The Waiting Room" is reminiscent of the sonic stylings of avant-garde producer Brian Eno (who contributed to the album's recording sessions, in return for Collins playing drums on Eno's Music for Films and Another Green World albums).

Another Green World was recorded in 1975 and Music for Films was recorded between 1975 and 1978. The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway was recorded in 1974. It is illogical to suggest that Eno's contibutions were 'in return for' Collins' contributions to recordings which had not only not yet occurred but hadn't even been planned. The mention of Collins' contributions to those two Eno albums is particularly silly given that Collins also contributed to Eno's Taking Tiger Mountain by Strategy album which was recorded during the same time period that The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway was recorded (Taking Tiger Mountain was recorded in September of 1974 while Lamb Lies Down was recorded between August and October of 1974). Also, lacking any direct evidence of quid pro quo between Eno and Collins, suggesting that one's contribution was done "in return for" another's seems a bit clumsy and unnecessary to me.


 * Yup, the swap was for Taking Tiger Mountain (both albums done at Island studios?)--feline1 09:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The majority of the music was recorded at Glosspant, a remote village in Wales, then mixed at Island, where Peter and Phil apparently recorded the vocals.--antster1983 00:54, 04 September 2006 (BST)


 * Eno on what he did on The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway: "To be honest, I can't remember. It would have been treatments of some kind. I would take existing instruments and feed them through various devices to 'weird them up'. It wasn't something people were commonly doing then. Nobody does anything else now..."

I think the "Detailed Description" section should be excised completely- like, seriously, "Like the Beatles' White Album, this double album gains in diversity what it loses in coherence, providing in fragments the various members of the band a chance to take risks, even if the final result is more like a quilt than a tapestry." That doesn't belong in an encyclopedia.

phil collins' vocals
i was listening to "lilywhite lilith" and thought, "man, peter gabriel sounds a lot like phil collins." but then, as i listened closer, i began to wonder if it was phil. the second part of the song, beginning at 1:45 is certainly peter, but before that it sure sounds like phil (or at least phil & peter). anyone know for sure? --Progjunky 10:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I doubt it. It's definitely Peter. Collins has never had a strong vocal in that range - he would have done some note skips during "I could only just hear some voice quite near, 'Please help me through the crowd." I believe the entire album is Gabriel + Gabriel overdub. Fantailfan 23:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well Phill is credited in doing vocals on the album so he atleast did some71.184.205.84 (talk) 02:29, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

well, the whole album can't be peter, because phil is definitely singing solo for like 2 seconds during "The Colony Of Slipperman" (he sings the lines "now can't you see? where the raven flies there's jeopardy," and then later "some concern, ooh!"). after listening to "lilywhite lilith" with headphones, however, i'm starting to think it's peter + phil singing lead (with phil "ooh"-ing in the background). any other insights?


 * "Collins has never had a strong vocal in that range "

And your evidence for this is what fantail? Your personal opinion? Phil was more than capable...in fact he's hit similar ranges numerous times. I have examples if needed. Snowbound 22:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Of course it's personal opinion, based on having all Genesis' albums from 1969-1991 plus Archives 1, Gabriel's solo work 1976-2002 and Collins' first three solo albums. It seems to me that Collins' strong range starts higher than Gabriel's and is probably broader. On "Lilywhite Lilith," I firmly believe it's Gabriel+Gabriel overdub delay+Collins background. I wish I had more knowledge on vocal technique and style (or instrumental, for that matter), because I would be able to describe how Gabriel and Collins handle the same vocal, in technical terms.
 * One thing that I would like to know is whether anyone but Gabriel and Collins did vocals on Genesis in the studio or onstage (lead, backing or otherwise). Fantailfan 15:36, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Functional ears will tell you that "Counting Out Time" is a co-lead vocal. Phil's sung vowels are different and pretty recognizable. Emoedison (talk) 08:52, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

"Lamb Lies Down" or "Lamb Lies down"?
On 2 August 2006, User:Koavf moved this page from "The Lamb Lies D own on Broadway" to "The Lamb Lies d own on Broadway". However, the text in the article continues to capitalize the "D" everywhere.

Which is correct? I have always seen it with a capital D. The original record sleeve uses all-capitals, but the name of the title track has a capital D, and the current CD booklet uses a capital D in the centerfold with all the albums listed.

I will move the page back unless there's a reason not to.... &mdash; Lawrence King ( talk ) 09:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Update: No one responded, and I discovered that User:Koavf has been banned from Wikipedia. So I moved the page back to "The Lamb Lies D own on Broadway" where it belongs. &mdash; Lawrence King ( talk ) 18:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Kevin Gilbert, Giraffe and The Lamb
So, I think - whoever written this - ment the programm Giraffe played during a ProgFest. Well, actually it was not the whole album played, but just some songs, to make the album 'fit' into one single LP or CD. I even got a recording of this evening and it's definitely NOT the whole album, which was played.

magnum opus
"The Lamb is considered to be Genesis' magnum opus." Source this, and it can stay. 70.238.249.216 22:27, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Along the same lines, isn't "one of the most dense and obfuscated works of art ever created" rather overdone? Rien Post 23:04, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Unbalanced tag on Detailed Description section
As mentioned in the discussion above, qualifications like "magnum opus" or "the most dense and obfuscated work of art ever created" don't belong in an encyclopedia. I feel like I'm reading some unofficial Genesis website, maintained by a fan. Writing that the album is "more like a quilt than a tapestry" doesn't make things a lot clearer either. If somebody with a better knowledge of Genesis than me could work on this section, it would be much appreciated. Rien Post 10:22, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I see feline1 has deleted the entire section. That's a solution too, of course. :-) Rien Post 13:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Aftermath=/=Notable Covers
I felt the need to change "Aftermath" to "Notable Covers", as "Aftermath" seems, to me at least, to suggest what happened to the band AFTER the album, like Peter Gabriel's departure, further change in sound with "A Trick of the Tail", etc., when it just lists covers. So I changed it to "Notable Covers", which seems more fitting to me. Also, thanks to MrMarmite for tidying up that one section at the beginning of the article, I realize after reading my version over how stupid it looks. =/

Like father like son, nor flesh nor fish nor bone. I am Teh_Squonkz 06:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Excessive part in "Overview" section
I'm tempted to remove the entire part of the Overview section beginning with "The Lamb, as it is generally referred to by fans..." to the end. It reads too much like a review, as it's full of speculation and personal interpretations that are highly arguable. There are some legitimate points, like the fact that Gabriel wanted something more "gritty" than Rutherford's "Little Prince" idea, but most of it seems really excessive and could probably be edited down if not eliminated entirely. Anybody disagree? Jphillst (talk) 02:55, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The whole section is some of the most egregious fanblabber PoV crap I've yet seen on wikipedia. Sort it out, guys!--feline1 (talk) 12:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I removed the review-like section. I kept the tour description for now, though I may make a few tweaks in that section later on.  Jphillst (talk) 16:42, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Next Album
Should Trick of the Tail be the next album, or "The Best". It's odd how Genesis discography has no mention of "The Best". Is it not considered a release? Does chronology imply studio albums? MrMarmite (talk) 06:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It was a double-disc cash-in by Buddah released between Lamb Lies Down and Trick, and technically a compilation with previously released (and unimaginatively packaged) material. So, I would say no, it doesn't belong. Yeah, that was me you saw buying it at the Harvard Coop one Saturday morning in 1976. -- Fantailfan (talk) 12:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Gold?
None of the links mention anything about this album going gold. Can someone find one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.110.137.50 (talk) 16:49, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

the RIAA web site: http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?resultpage=1&table=SEARCH_RESULTS&artist=genesis&gold=&platinum=&multiPlat=&level2=&certDate=&startYear=1968&endYear=2008&sort=Artist&perPage=25 208.29.184.143 (talk) 19:18, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

That website says nothing about Lamb going gold. However this one does, http://www.bpi.co.uk/index.asp?Page=news/press/news_content_file_887.shtml

PREMISE SECTION
I have a "Recording Magazine" in front of me, and in an article about this album, It pulls WORD FOR WORD the first line of the Premise section..."A concept album, The Lamb tells the surreal story of a half Puerto-Rican juvenile delinquent named Rael living in New York City, who is swept underground to face bizzare creatures and nightmarish dangers in order to rescue his brother, John." This is directly from the magazine article..A little too similar....I assume this page was up first as this issue is a recent one, but plagiarism just gets to me...I guess nothing needs fixing but I thought I should call out the hack writer, Dave Martin, who wrote the magazine article. It's in the April 2009 issue of Recording Magazine in the Bass Column... Grrrrrr. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.88.60.141 (talk) 15:58, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Section Titles
The section titled Background seems to overly focus on Gabriel's imminent departure from the band.

The section titled Live Performance begins with paragraphs concerning the chart position of the recording.

Refactor!

Sweavo (talk) 14:17, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011
Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the Allmusic template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links: --CactusBot (talk) 18:55, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
 * http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=A08q8g4sttv8z

Release date
Allmusic indicates the release date as 18 November 1974. It is conceivable there were different national release dates (e.g. American and British), but the release date in the article should not be changed unless there is a supporting WP:RS reference (WP:V). Dl2000 (talk) 01:25, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 08:14, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Sleeve design
"Hipgnosis designed the album's artwork. In a departure from their previous albums that featured more colourful designs.."

To what does "their" refer - Genesis, or Hipgnosis? I know what I suspect to be the answer, but without mindreading skills I shouldn't really make the edit! Harfarhs (talk) 05:13, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Hipgnosis --Viennese Waltz 07:06, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much - I'll amend the article accordingly. Harfarhs (talk) 11:38, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Track listing
Side two:

'4. "The Carpet Crawlers" (note: The US pressing lists the track as "The Carpet Crawlers")'

I presume one of those quoted titles should instead read "Carpet Crawlers". But which is it? Harfarhs (talk) 05:30, 19 April 2020 (UTC)


 * People keep editing the track title to be "The Carpet Crawlers," which is what the song is best-known as, but that renders the footnote incomprehensible. In reality, there are four variant versions of the title: 1) "Carpet Crawl" - This is what appears on the original UK Charisma LP (and most international LP releases). 2) "The Carpet Crawlers" - This is what appears on the original North American ATCO LP. This form was also used for the UK single version of the song. 3) "The Carpet Crawl" - This variant title is used on all versions the live album Seconds Out, from initial release to date. 4) "Carpet Crawlers" - First used on the 1994 "Definitive Edition" series of remasters. Except for the aforementioned Seconds Out, this is the form used on all CD/digital releases of The Lamb, and all compilations, worldwide, since 1994.
 * The article should have the title as just "Carpet Crawl," as that's the version used on the original release of the LP in the band's home country. The footnote noting the alternative NA form of the title adequately covers the variant title. "Here Comes the Supernatural Anaesthetist," another track with a regional title variant, is treated the same way. Yspaddadenpenkawr (talk) 14:24, 27 April 2022 (UTC)