Talk:The Mall Athens

Neutrality of article disputed
This article is about a shopping mall near Athens, Mall. The notability of the subject is already low. In addition the content of the article is not about the shopping mall itslef but about political controvesies regarding its planning permission. The citations are also of low quality, mainly anonymous blog and other activist web links. Sv1xv (talk) 10:05, 4 November 2009 (UTC)


 * "Ιn addition the content of the article is not about the shopping mall itslef but about political controvesies regarding its planning permission" Isn't this enough for notability to apply? As for the citations, I agree. They have to be converted in order to point to articles from reputable Greek newspapers (there is a bunch of them that mention the controversy).--Dipa1965 (talk) 21:26, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * No, it is not enough. A project does not become notable just because local activists cause a lot of noise. Sv1xv (talk) 05:46, 6 November 2009 (UTC)


 * That is your point of view, (POV) contradicting wikipedia's policy. Besides you are trying to pose a notability problem instead of discussing seriously about neutrality. Quite out of context --Kalogeropoulos (talk) 17:04, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, everybody,

On behalf of the reporters’ team responsible for the facthemall.gr website and the recent editing of the Mall Athens entry, I would like to add a few words to the discussion about the neutrality of the article.

First and foremost, www.facthemall.gr is not an activists’ project, it’ s a professional, although independent, journalistic effort, based on years of research and reporting on a subject that mainstream media have yet to touch. It’s not even an “anonymous blog” as you can see for yourselves in our contributors’ page. All of us have worked for years as journalists for numerous Greek media outlets and we care about accuracy and neutrality at least as much as devoted Wikipedia contributors do.

We understand it’s hard for someone who doesn’t read Greek to evaluate the sturdiness of our arguments and sources, but as you can imagine English language documents are very few. It’s true that the fact we didn’t include more of the original sources in the article doesn’t do much justice to our case, so we’ll try to replace as many as possible of the facthemall.gr sources with the original ones, who have already been cited in the website.

FIY, our documents include:

-	The 2003 and 2008 Greek Supreme Court’s decisions on the Mall’s case.

-	Records of the Greek parliament’s proceedings, including a speech by the then Prime Minister, Kostas Karamanlis.

-	Articles published in some of the biggest Greek political magazines and newspapers (Epohi, Kathimerini, Eleftherotupia and Galera just to name a few).

As for the notability of the article, it all comes down to the Mall's illegitimacy and the significance of the juridical battle to prove it: If the Mall trial ends in favour of the Latsis' Group, that will mean that the Greek government will still be able, through the gimmick of ad hoc legislation that it used over this case, to ignore the Supreme Court's decisions in other important environmental cases that trouble our country.

We welcome your comments and suggestions on how we can improve the quality of our entry, especially since this is our first attempt to contribute to a project that we, ourselves, use and value enormously in our everyday work. -Stellunak (talk) 14:38, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

First two sections (Visitor Infotmation and Access) not encyclopedic
The first two sections in this article appear to be more of a guidebook than encyclopedic content. As noted in the policy, Wikipedia is not a travel guide. Access, amenities, and hours are more suited to a tourbook.

167.225.107.17 (talk) 20:23, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

An article about Bhopal is not just about an obscure Indian town...
This article is important not because it is about a shopping mall in an Athens suburb, but because of the far more important issues which are connected to and arising from it: serious local and national government corruption, censorship through intimidation, sabotage of the Greek constitution through the attempted emasculation of the Supreme Court, and a large range of associated issues. To object that "the notability of the subject is [...] low", and "the content of the article is not about the shopping mall itself but about political controversies regarding its planning permission", as argued on an earlier section of this Talk, is to be deliberately disingenuous. That argument is equivalent to objecting than an article about the town of Bhopal, in Madhya Pradesh, India should make no mention of the environmental disaster caused by gas leakage from a Union Carbide plant. Charadras (talk) 12:59, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Renaming?
This article is very bad. I would like to propose a rename, something in the lines of "The Mall Controversy". This article contains very little actual info about the mall, while most of it focuses on why/how it was built. Anyways creating a page solely dealing with this fact is at least suspicious. Soathana (talk) 05:44, 14 September 2011 (UTC)