Talk:The Matrix Revolutions

Interpretation
This section seems like it belongs in the discussion page. Everything is theories and POV without sources. Any thoughts? --Graveenib 01:27, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps, but then it gives links to online forums as "sources". Also, if you read the article about the Deus Ex Machina, this appears to give a clear and reasonable explanation of how Smith is deleted, thus the theories are all wrong and unnecessary.

"After a duel in the Matrix, Neo submits to Smith, allowing the rogue program to copy himself over him. Now directly connected, the Deus Ex Machina suddenly pulls the plug from Neo/Smith's head jack, effectively killing Neo, and returning both The One and Smith to The Source, completely erasing Smith."'

Smith imprinting himself onto Neo allowed Smith to be deleted as he was briefly connected to the Source through Neo's body (for programs to be deleted they must return to the source). It seems a simple and logical explanation to me, and considering it's presentation as fact in that article, I see no need for the theories in the Interpretation section, most of which are probably unverified and original research anyway. - Chipstick 16:48, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That "reasonable explanation" requires a huge amount of interpretation and it's entirely wrong because it's contrary to the facts as presented in the film. Neo is seen losing consciousness, at least his body goes limp, after the assimilation and after the light is emitted, and after his body disappears from the Matrix and after the shots of the explosions of white light spreading across the city, which all occur prior to Neo's body in the real world having the jack removed from the back of its head. Waerloeg (talk) 20:27, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

The answer is the most basic concept of algebra. The Architect refers to neo as the result of an unbalanced equation, and the oracle makes a similar comment. The oracle explains to Neo that he and Smith are on opposite sides of a mathematical equation. They justify eachother and are necessary for eachother to exist, thus, if Neo dies, Smith dies.

Think of it this way: X = X (Keep in mind that X > 0 in this context.) Neo is X on the left, Smith is X on the right. If you subtract X from the left, the equation will be unbalanced, and won't make any sense. The only way to balance the equation is to subtract X from both sides. Thus, if X on the left (Neo) is subtracted (subtraction representing Neo's death here) then X must also be automatically subtracted from the right (representing Smith's death).

When Neo asks what Smith is, the Oracle says: He is you. Your opposite, your negative. The result of the equation trying to balance itself out.

Thus, Neo and Smith's existences are inexorably connected. They both exist as two parts of an equation, necessary to balance eachother out. If one dies, the other is automatically killed as well to keep the equation balanced.

I hope this sheds some light on the ending and why Smith dies.

Theo88 (talk) 05:32, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

"Last Exile" reference
I deleted the comments re "Last Exile". First, discussion belongs here, not in the article. Second, Wikipedia has a policy of no No Original Research. I don't have a problem with the comment in and of itself; just find a valid source, and then feel free to put it back in.

Spoiler tags
The plot section needs them. The caption for the screenshot of the final shot in the film is quite spoilerific.
 * Wikipedia is not cencored WP:NOT.--DFS454 (talk) 16:38, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Matrix Revolutions Cover.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 14:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Mobil Avenue in Plot
Due to the deletion of Mobil Ave (The Matrix), we should try to expand on the idea of Mobil Avenue in the Plot Section. Mobil Avenue was an important metaphorical object in The Matrix Revolutions. Areas that could be expanded; the Mobil Avenue metaphor, the Limbo analogy, the fact that the Prime Program code that Neo (The Matrix) carries as The One is useless, and the fact that the station was created and is maintained by the Trainman.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:zr7cYY5ToAMJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobil_Ave+Mobil+Ave

--HockeyInJune (talk) 13:41, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Plot - Ending
Towards the end, when Neo is lying incapacitated on the ground, Agent Smith takes the time to re-enact his prophesy. In the article the quote of him is this, "everything that has a beginning has an end," However it leaves out him saying Neo. Agent Smith saying Neo was an important detail in that throughout most of the trilogy Neo is always referred to as Mr.Anderson. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.245.239.34 (talk) 18:16, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Plot - that's not Neo
"The Neo-Smith and the rest of the clones then explode, restoring The Matrix and its citizens to normal. Neo is left lying dead in the crater full of water."

Who we actually see there is the Oracle. It may not be easy to see her face through all the rain, but the bracelet doesn't lie. I'm not really sure how to alter the article though, because it would seem the Oracle isn't dead. I'll just try to make something out of it. - [unsigned/undated]


 * I think the point here is actually that the Oracle isn't dead - she and all the other Smith copies were restored to normal. Perhaps Smith chose that copy to fight with because if Neo had somehow killed him physically he'd have killed her? Wnt (talk) 07:21, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Her face can be seen clearly enough as can her hair, she is is lying on her back, her clothes can be made out to be a dress not a coat and she has the silhouette of someone with much larger than average male size mammary glands. Diverging into off topic territory: Why it's fitting that Oracle-Smith does the fighting instead of original-Smith isn't spelled. It's not necessary for Smith to have assimilated the Oracle to gain prophetic powers as he could have gained them as one of the changes from merging with Neo who also had visions of the future though perhaps assimilating her gave Smith much greater powers. But it leads to Oracle-Smith repeating the Oracle's line "Everything that has a beginning has an end" and finishing that with "Neo" instead of Smith's normal "Mr Anderson". Hearing this unsettles Smith greatly and prompts Neo to accept assimilation which leads to Smith's dissolution Waerloeg (talk) 20:07, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Eleusinian Mysteries?
To me there seems some connection between this and the Eleusinian Mysteries, with Sati = Iris, Persephone = Persephone?, Merovingian = Hades, Architect = Zeus, etc. There are bits and pieces of such comparison around the Web and even Wikipedia, but nothing resembling a solid sourced statement. Could the experts here nail down a clear connection? This is fairly important to the interpretation e.g. I was originally thinking that the Oracle and Architect were ex?-spouses but by this mythology they're siblings. Wnt (talk) 07:08, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Did Neo die or ascend?
The article states, "Neo, having sacrificed himself to save both the Machines and humans, is unplugged from the Matrix and his body is carried away by the Machines." However, scenes portraying Neo in orange as an "angel" (still glowing after his 'death'), and with white light bursting out of him in the machine world just as in the Matrix, lead me to the contrary interpretation that he has ascended from the fantasy of the machine-world.

Of course, there's not much I can do with two unsourced interpretations against one another, but it's another point to try to find some kind of source to weigh in on. Wnt (talk) 07:44, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


 * You've presented a false dichotomy. A third option is that Neo simply falls unconscious. He already did that when shutting down the squiddies in the second film. Nothing indicates he is dead. The Oracle's body is seen in the water after the fight. The Neo-Smith body disappears from the Matrix while emitting light. There's nothing special about Neo's body not being in the water as we have frequently seen characters leave the Matrix and their bodies disappear. Absence of the fade to green and transparency normally seen when characters exit is easily masked by the white light special effect. Extra-canonically, in the Matrix Online game requests for the machines to return Neo's body are not honoured and it is rumoured that Neo is alive. The game went offline before those story arcs were resolved. Waerloeg (talk) 20:19, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

The Wachowskis/Wachowski Brothers
In view of the inconsistency in regards to how the Wachowskis are referred to among related articles I have started a discussion at Talk:The Matrix Reloaded in attempt to resolve the issue. Betty Logan (talk) 09:13, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Request for Comment - Crediting The Wachowskis
Please help us decide the best way to credit the Wachowskis in article leads and infoboxes:

Talk:The_Matrix_(franchise)

WanderingWanda (talk) 06:47, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Just a few days left on this RfC and opinions remain sharply divided. Have any insight into this issue or good conflict resolution skills? Your input could be very valuable. Wandering Wanda  (talk) 05:54, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

The footnote credit for "Credited as The Wachowski Brothers"
How the footnote should appear in relevant Wachowski film articles is being discussed at Talk:The Matrix (franchise)/Archive 3. Please join the discussion and weigh in with your thoughts and suggestions. Thank you. --GoneIn60 (talk) 15:55, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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