Talk:The Pale Emperor

Quality
Overall, this article looks pretty good. At this point, it's time to get this through the peer review process to refine it and get it into good article standing. -Red marquis (talk) 12:57, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Blues-rock
Unless the source explicitly states the genre talking about the album as a whole. Do not add it to the infobox with several sources behind it. Let's see what your sources says, The first states "The Pale Emperor introduces a new influence: the blues. In an interview with The Fader, Manson stated: “What I hadn’t ever found, till now, is the blues. The blues changed the way that I sang. And the music has a melody and a language in and of itself.”

Now, this doesn’t mean this is an album full of blues clichés and songs about being left by his woman. Rather, Manson weaves a bluesy style into his music in a much more subtle way. Many of the tracks here have the familiar cadence and overall feel of a blues / rock song, but are still unmistakably Marilyn Manson. The song “Birds Of Hell Awaiting” has that classic 6/8 blues shuffle that brings to mind George Thorogood’s “I Drink Alone.” The two songs even begin in the same key.". At the best, it suggests an influence of blues.

The second source which is quoting another source for the record as this is a source about K-Pop music, states "In a report by Faster Louder, a slight difference in the music of Marilyn Manson can be heard on the new album "The Pale Emperor." A heavier "dirty bluesy hard rock" was said to be the new sound.", again, it only states an influence. Not that the album belongs to the genre.

The NME source states the album has "more common is a bleak, bluesy rock that splits the difference between Bauhaus, The Bad Seeds and True Detective.".

So per WP:STICKTOSOURCE and WP:SYN, you can not just get that it's a blues-rock album because none of the sources explicitly state that. If anything, they all simply suggest it as an influence. Andrzejbanas (talk) 00:11, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * This is where interpretation of sources comes in to play. You seem to be interpreting the Zumic source as merely suggesting an influence, but I see that source as confirming that blues rock runs throughout the entirety of the album. It states "Many of the tracks here have the familiar cadence and overall feel of a blues / rock song", and goes on to discuss things as fundamental as song time signatures, as well as his vocal style (which, of course, can be found throughout "the album as a whole"). The NME review references a "bleak, bluesy rock that splits the difference between Bauhaus, The Bad Seeds and True Detective" (the latter being a TV series - with a blues rock soundtrack). The addition of a "y" does not negate the reference to "blues rock". The KPOP reference states a "Heavy Blues Rock Shift" in its title. A combination of sources does not immediately fall under WP:SYNTH - it merely suggests that it's a problematic statement (which this thread indicates it is). I suggest we wait for more input before editing any further. Homeostasis07 (talk) 00:36, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

So it doesn't look like we're getting "more input" on this anytime soon. I found a couple more sources for 'blues/blues rock', and some of them seem [to me, at least] to satisfy the "the source [should] explicitly state the genre when talking about the album as a whole" criteria: Are any of these satisfactory? Homeostasis07 (talk) 00:52, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
 * "For lifelong fans of the band, it may come as a discouraging surprise to hear the controversial, gothic group [...] create a blues record that almost completely abandons the band's previous sound. The fact of the matter is that The Pale Emperor is able to retain the darkness and edginess that the band so eloquently crafted throughout their career while still being a mildly easy-to-digest blues rock album." The Crate Writers.
 * "Co-written with producer and composer Tyler Bates [...] the album changes tack by focusing on the blues as the roots of rock and roll. This also invokes the appropriately Faustian element of old blues men selling their souls to the archfiend. The result is an older and wiser album that’s swapped out metal riffs and industrial motifs for blues." Hop Scotch Friday
 * "On The Pale Emperor, that fire is not only back, but firmly under Manson’s control. There are plenty of dynamic peaks and troughs scattered throughout The Pale Emperor‘s blighted depths, and the whole thing breathes like an old blues record. Where Manson’s last few albums felt watered down, The Pale Emperor feels restrained – and all the more vital and thrilling for it." Musical Melting Pot.
 * Blues maybe for the first one, but expect edit war history. None of these says blues-rock, so they aren't acceptable for blues-rock. I'll try to call some other genre projects here to bring more to the discussion. Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:28, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Great idea about calling in some other people, but I don't understand how the first source isn't acceptable to you. I've bolded the relevant parts. They explicitly and directly call it a "blues rock album". What else does one need? Homeostasis07 (talk) 18:29, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

This might work: So, it's been over 3 weeks since you last replied to this topic. Can you confirm that you agree to the inclusion of the blues rock genre, per the first source I posted, and the source posted? Homeostasis07 (talk) 01:52, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
 * "With film composer Tyler Bates writing the music, the songs have a sombre, muscular take on belting blues rock with an industrial/electronic sheen." The Sydney Morning Herald Myxomatosis57 (talk) 15:15, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
 * That last source might be alright, but it all still seems so minor and without a greater explanation in the prose, it may give listeners the wrong idea of the genre of the album. I apologize for slow replies as I've been busy with other tasks, but I'd suggest either more input from others, or remove genres from the infobox for this article and just have it suggest the users to read the prose to get a much better understanding of the music than any bullet-pointed list could suggest. Andrzejbanas (talk) 02:20, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

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