Talk:The Tonight Show/Archive 1

Archive 1

Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon Logos

The Tonight logo on this page needs to be changed back to Tonight Show with Jay Leno logo since that is the current logo of the show. Also these Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon logos are not the right logos, contrary to what the article claims. There is no reference anywhere on the internet, and the source of these images in the image summary says "own work". These images need to removed ASAP. Images I'm refrerring to:

File:The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon graphic.png

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.206.221.120 (talk) 15:43, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Temp file

Anyone know why The Tonight Show/Temp exists? Can it be deleted?

Screen shots

So screen shots are totally okay (ie legal)? - user:Zanimum

Far from knowing the answer to your question, that's what I deduced from several discussions that have been going on here at Wikipedia. Zoe, for example, has been uploading cover photos (see for example Arnold Schwarzenegger or Julia Roberts) and considers this "fair use". But again, as I already pointed out several times (for instance at Talk:Sharon Tate), it's easy to remove an image again, and I'd prefer anyone doing that to having a lengthy debate.

Generally speaking, I consider photos essential: Every good encyclopaedia has them. Any casual user will be able to make more of an article if they can also see what they are reading about. As far as the screen shot from The Tonight Show is concerned, I found it months ago somewhere on the Internet (don't remember where), saved it, came across it again yesterday and thought it might be a good idea to illustrate the article with it. It does look weird though, especially the bottom right-hand corner. --KF 05:54 22 May 2003 (UTC)

Yes, every encyclopedia has them, but they pay firms for liscensing the images, and they don't focus on entertainment, and wouldn't include that sort of Hollywood-themed images. - user:zanimum

I think -- correct me if I'm wrong -- that what you're saying is:

(1) While commercial encyclopaedias pay for the images they use, Wikipedia doesn't, and this is morally questionable and/or a breach of law. Well, although it has taken me some time to try and understand the fair use policy, I think promotional photos can't be a problem. What it boils down to is free advertising. But again, we don't even have to vote on that: If someone doesn't like a photo (or just its existence here) all they have to do is delete it. All I would ask of them is to state their reason(s).

(2) While commercial encyclopaedias focus on what is traditionally regarded as "high culture", Wikipedia includes trivia, fun, even nonsense. It's awful enough having to read about Songs whose main title appears more than twenty times in the lyrics, but also having trivial images is just too much. To me, however, this is one of Wikipedia's assets. It's nice to be able to read about towels, the London congestion charge (including the "silly" caption for the last photo), Bratwurst, Badfinger or Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? as well as Johannes Brahms or Geoffrey Chaucer. --KF 17:48 22 May 2003 (UTC)

I added some information to the The Tonight Show/Temp page. I didn't use any sources other than my own memory. If someone could help fill out the article, I would appreciate it.
Thanks
JesseG 03:54, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)

Copyvio

On August 24th the copyvio notice was put on the article after an anonymous user added several pages of text from about.com, but the version of the page before that edit doesn't seem to be a copyright violation. I've reverted the page to the version before the anonymous edit (but kept a legitimate addition from after the copyvio). If this is wrong, please revert it back. - MattTM 23:35, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Conan O'Brien As The New Host of The Tonight Show

Under the hosts section I changed Conan O'Brien info from he will take over in 2009 to he will Tenatively take over in 2009 as of right now NBC has made no official announcement that Conan will take over The Tonight Show. Just because Jay Leno says he will doesn't mean it will happen. In fact Johnny Carson had no say in his successor although he wanted David Letterman to take over and in fact David Letterman had a clause in his contract that NBC was to give him the hosting duties of The Tonight Show when Johnny Carson retires or NBC would owe him $1 million dollars, Obviously Warren Littlefield then the President of Programming and John Agoglia then the President of Business Affairs decided that they would rather just pay off Letterman and keep him on the 12:30am slot a decision that both Littlefield and Agoglia would later say they regret doing and of course we all know what happen next Letterman left NBC and went over to CBS and beat Jay Leno in the TV ratings for a year and a half until Leno had Hugh Grant on his show to talk about being arrested with a hooker. Misterrick 23:03, 31 December 2004 (UTC).

Wrong on several counts. The page has already been edited to show that O'Brien has been contractually signed to take over as the show's host in 2009.

Further, Letterman's penalty clause of $1 million was by no means a promise or a guarantee that he would be Johnny Carson's successor as host of "The Tonight Show." You have misidentified Littlefield and Agoglia's position titles. Also, neither John Agoglia, nor least of all Warren Littlefield, have ever gone on record to state that they "regretted" making the decision that made Leno the new "Tonight Show" host.

And finally, despite what Bill Carter of The Late Shift fame would have you believe, Hugh Grant is not responsible for Jay Leno's ratings popularity. (Would you claim that Grant's tryst with Divine Brown explains Letterman's lagging ratings for the past decade as well?) Several changes were made that could explain why "The Tonight Show" began regularly beating "The Late Show with David Letterman." I would also suggest that after Letterman hosted the Emmys, a performance widely regarded as a flop, Letterman's star began to fade. Telestylo 08:01, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Time slot

From the article:

NBC has planned to move back the show from 11:35 P.M. to 12:00 A.M. It may be happen since the fall season of 2006.

Does anybody know if this is true and/or confirmed? Is there proof? Also, I've tried to fix the grammar but I'm not sure I've preserved the meaning (since in its original form, I can't really tell what it's trying to say). Aerion//talk 05:13, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I have removed this until that poster can provide some sort of news or official announcement from NBC otherwise it's just a rumor. Misterrick 19:51, 08 January 2005 (UTC).

Paragraphs under "Hosts" are disorganized

The text, which serves as the main body of the entry, should be in more or less chronological order, no? It should give a full history, rather than a bunch of factoids randomly cobbled together.

Ernie Kovacs as host?

Is this legitimate? No history of the Tonight Show lists Kovacs as one of the four canonical hosts of the show, and indeed the 50-year retrospective NBC did last year did not mention him; the only "official" hosts were Steve Allen, Jack Paar, Johnny Carson, and Jay Leno, in that order. As I understand it, Kovacs was a fill-in/guest host; it was never "Tonight Show with Ernie Kovacs." Can any other TV scholars back me up on this? Because if we list Kovacs, we'll have to add the many, many other people who filled in during interregna (or other vacant periods) in the show's hosting job (Letterman, Joan Rivers, Groucho Marx, Don Rickles, Katie Couric, et al.). Also, the visitors to the page will probably wonder why this page lists him as a Tonight Show host and no other credible source available does. Could this be vandalism that slipped into the page that has never been reverted? 69.166.17.41 05:38, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

First of all, I resent my edit being called vandalism. You need to drop your argumentative and accusatory tone, both here and on my talk page. It's inappropriate. Secondly, my television information comes from the IMDb, and when you look here you will see him listed as the Monday and Tuesday host from 1956 - 1957. Thirdly, it was never The Tonight Show with Steve Allen, either. As for "no other credible source" the IMDb is certainly credible. Do your research next time! Sahasrahla 22:51, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

After researching this issue, I have concluded that Kovacs should not be included in the listing of hosts for the following reason. The IMDb entry showing Ernie Kovacs as a host of The Tonight Show is not necessarily incorrect, but highly misleading; Kovacs was a host, not the host of the Tonight Show. Numerous other famous people have also been guest hosts without being the recognized host of the show. I have already changed this article and the articles on Kovacs, Allen, and Paar accordingly.

My source for this change is the following:

Timberg, Bernard. Television Talk: A History of the TV Talk Show. Austin: UT Press,

2002.

Telestylo 07:49, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

However I put Kovacs back based upon my source, The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network TV shows 1046-Present, by Brooks and Marsh. 23skidoo 16:05, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Separate article for The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson

I created a Carson-specific article for The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson. It still needs work, but it already has had some advantages, such as allowing the infobox to be more informative and accurate (about number of episodes and duration for example). I could see this article remaining as the overall description it currently is, or this could become almost a disambiguation for a series of separate articles (following the current model for NBC's Late Night, for which two separate articles exist (Late Night with David Letterman and Late Night with Conan O'Brien). 66.167.141.83 05:05, 1 October 2005 (UTC).

I support this change. The new page is shaping up pretty well. Of course, new pages will need to be made for Steve Allen, Jack Paar, and Jay Leno's versions of the show, as well. Telestylo 08:04, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

We should make a page for Steve Allen and Jack Paar TheSimpsonsRocks (talk) 17:38, 8 January 2010 (UTC)TheSimpsonsRocks

Hosts

Wasn't Dick Cavett a host? Or am I confused.....

Cavett hosted his own late night talk show, but I am not certain if he hosted The Tonight Show specifically. I will research this and confirm it here, along with the apparently incorrect assertion that Ernie Kovacs was a host, as the page suggests. Telestylo 09:27, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Episode count

The episode count in the infobox is too low considering it is supposed to account for all incarnations of the show. The Carson show article alone lists more than 4,500 episodes. 23skidoo 22:00, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Taken care of. Master and Commander 07:09, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Existing episodes

Would it be worthwhile to add a paragraph or two about the many episodes that are presumed lost forever? The article does mention the kinescope of the very first Steve Allen segment, but there is nothing about other episodes lost/existing or the recovery of a full Johnny Carson episode a few years ago. 209.51.77.64 05:37, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Please go ahead. That's a good idea, especially since Carson expressed regret about this when he was preparing his final shows and had to say that many of his New York shows were lost forever. Even his very first night hosting is (at the present time) only represented by audio and a few photographs. If there happens to be an organized effort to recover lost Carsons (much as there's an effort scouring the world for lost Doctor Who episodes, this should definitely be mentioned. 23skidoo 05:42, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

The problem, of course, is being about to verify which episodes exist. Supposedly most of Johnny Carson's first ten years were either destroyed or recorded over by NBC. If that is the case, it stands to reason that most of Steve Allen and Jack Paar's episodes are gone as well. Rumor has it when Carson discovered what had happened to the first decade of his shows, he decided to personally make sure copies of his future programs were saved (and they were, kept in a climate-controlled salt mine). Anyway, a quick search of rec.arts.tv on Usenet reveals plenty of topics relating to which Carson episodes exist from the 1960s in kinescope form. It is disappointing that no record seems to exist. I will try to scrounge up some solid information within the next few days. 209.51.77.64 06:06, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we need to go into too much detail i.e. describing which episodes are missing. But it would be worth checking to see how widespread the problem is. I believe one of the reasons why we have more Steve Allen than early Carson episodes is that in the 1950s kinescoping was very widespread, but appeared to have died down by the 1960s even with the absence of VCRs. (I have never seen a kinescope of a North American program from, say, 1969. I have seen kinescope-like recordings, however, of British television programs like Doctor Who and The Avengers). 23skidoo 06:12, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Guest List

• Is there list of guests that have appeared on the show? Pattersonc(Talk) 12:53 PM, Monday; January 30 2006 (EST)

Very good question that. I don't believe one has been attempted, though I believe Carson estimated that upwards of 10,000 guests appeared on his show (though I don't know if this includes repeats, groups, etc.) Once you add in Steve Allen, Jack Parr and Jay Leno you'd probably need a phone book roughly the size of the one for Red Deer, Alberta to list them all. ;-) 23skidoo 18:50, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

• We would need a phone book for all of them. I'm going to start another page with the Guest Stars tonight, starting with whoever is on the show. If we can backlog all the previous guest, that's great, but at least we can start documenting the current guesting on all the talk shows. A small task if done daily, an daunting one if you wait 40 years to start. :-) Pattersonc(Talk) 2:41 PM, Monday; January 30 2006 (EST)

Make sure the list article is well-categorized (A-Z, etc) and has a strong intro, otherwise this is the type of thing that (in theory) could attract AFD. I think it's a good idea, myself, but to be honest I no longer know what qualifies for AFD anymore. Articles that used to be virtually speedy deleted are now passing near-unanimously, and don't even get me started on the new Living People category you've no doubt seen kicking around... ;-) 23skidoo 19:45, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

How (blank) was it?

I added the above to the Classic Gags section. A few years back I was reading a book on the Tonight Show -- I have forgotten the title and author -- in which it was stated that the unfortunate audience member who actually said this during the monologue would be evicted from the studio as it was forbidden to interrupt Johnny's monologue. (I know, it doesn't make sense). This is a legitimate anecdote, however I cannot find the book in question so I'm hesitant to add it to the article lest someone think I'm making it up. Does anyone else remember the book this is mentioned in? I believe it was a book published before Carson left the show, and I vaguely recall the cover had a photo of him as Carnac. 23skidoo 04:53, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Black and White

Does the line about Kevin and Bob Eubanks not being related really need to be there? I mean, look at them.

Good catch. It's gone. 23skidoo 15:13, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Subpages

What does everyone think of having subpages for all the different shows? I don't see why not, everyone would have their different sketchs/ratings/famous moments/guests/bands/airing distributions/etc etc. I think it would be much more comprehensive and be more user friendly for editing.

Thoughts?

Cvene64 12:42, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

It would require some reorganization. I do believe that The Tonight Show as an institution deserves its own lead article (much as Star Trek has a franchise article and then sub-articles on the series). There should be an article created for Tonight! America After Dark (it redirects here right now). However what should be done with the "interregnum" period between Parr and Carson? IMDb lists it as a separate Tonight Show series... 23skidoo 19:47, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Please stop adding Conan to the infobox

Conan O'Brien cannot be listed in the infobox until he actually becomes host of the show, which may happen in 2009 or may not happen at all. The Infobox is for confirmed and past information; all we know is Jay Leno started in 1992 and is the present host. To say otherwise is crystal ballism. The show could be cancelled next year, O'Brien could decide not to go to the Tonight Show after all ... we're talking 3 years into the future. The fact O'Brien has been named heir presumptive (and that's all) is well covered in both the article and the table of hosts. 23skidoo 00:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

This Should Be Sepertate Articles...

I tink that we should split the article, since Late Night with Conan O'Brien and Late Night With David Letterman are seperate articles. Besides, it is said inthe article that the full name is currently "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno", not just "the Tonight Show". Let's split this article into one called The Tonight Show for the general history, one called The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, and The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. The earlier hosts should be a part of the general article beacuse we don't have as much about them. Plus, if we do split the article, we should create The Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien, as we approach 2009.
Discuss?

Fair use rationale for Image:Jaytitle.jpg

Image:Jaytitle.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 09:29, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Steve1sttonight.jpg

Image:Steve1sttonight.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 11:43, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Meet the Press

Per the article introduction, Now in its 52nd season, The Tonight Show is the third longest-running entertainment program in U.S. television history (after the soap opera Guiding Light and Meet the Press). On the Meet the Press page, its own format is listed as "news", which is what I would consider it. I don't think it should count as a long-running "entertainment" program, as is said in the intro. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.154.181.44 (talk) 05:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

How compatible (or incompatible) are Jay Leno and John Melendez?

How compatible (or incompatible) are Jay Leno and John Melendez? Jay Leno is a native of Boston, and John Melendez is a native of New York. Does their compatibility (or incompatibility) add to the humor of the show? This should probably be explained in the article.
Native94080 (talk) 08:37, 9 February 2008 (UTC)Native94080

Main picture caption - First Lady/Former First Lady

The comment "Please Do not add "Former" She was first lady at the time of the picture" has been added to the article, however this has no logic at all. Let's say we had a picture of the world's tallest building. After it had been succeeded by a taller building the caption would have to change to "the 2nd tallest building in the world" or similar. Regardless of when the picture was taken the caption should read either "Former First Lady" or "then First Lady.... in 2004". Mark83 (talk) 15:13, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Comparing people to buildings is like apples to oranges. I am reverting, since common sense dictates. It is the way that captions are refered to. We don't take a picture of Lincoln and say Former President, do we?--Jojhutton (talk) 03:03, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Since you talk about comparing apples to oranges let me point out that comparing presidents to First Ladies is exactly that. Presidents can be, and are regularly referred to as President Bush, President Clinton etc. after their term has expired. First Ladies are not. Mark83 (talk) 11:29, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

People to be people is the same.--Jojhutton (talk) 13:02, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

No it's not. President of the United States is a position and title which is not analogous to First Lady, the latter does not persist after her husband's term.Mark83 (talk) 14:15, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

That is your POV please leave it alone.--Jojhutton (talk) 20:27, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

The other is just your point of view, as well. Since you guys can't seem to settle this, and Wikipedia requires consensus, it may be best to simply remove the offending picture and caption. I'm sure there are quite a few more that would not involve a debated title. 162.40.171.236 (talk) 09:44, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

What about "Jay Leno interviews then-First Lady Laura Bush in <year>"? I usually see "then-title" to indicate that someone had a title at the time but no longer does. 198.24.6.168 (talk) 00:40, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Transition wording

As Leno's final show airs tonight and O'Brien's doesn't start till Monday, I have reworded the intro to add "transitional" wording, just in case, you know, the world blows up over the weekend and O'Brien's version never airs. 68.146.81.123 (talk) 17:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Season issues

Jay said on his final show that it also marked the season finale of The Tonight Show. Historically, with this article, we've had some issues as to what season the show is actually in. The outdated info saying that the show was currently in its 54th season has since been removed, but I'm curious as to what season the show is now in since Conan's debut as host two days ago (as of this typing). Cartoon Boy (talk) 4:46, June 3 2009 (UTC)

Total episodes

76.229.163.246 has been updating the article daily to include the total number of episodes for Conan O'Brien's version of Tonight. I tried deleting the field once to discourage this, but the IP user put it right back in. Do we really want such edits ~220 days out of the year, every year? YLee (talk) 03:44, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Leno possibly taking over again

I am assuming it would be best not to update the factual sections of the page with speculation of what MIGHT happen with the show. At the time of my writing this, Conan has announced he will not be on the tonight show if it is to follow Leno and be at the 12:05 timeslot, but there have been no decisions on the future of this show or Leno's. So we shouldn't be allowing updates to the years hosted for things like Leno (1992-2009, 2010-) until the episodes have actually aired. 99.184.164.226 (talk) 02:25, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

WHOA

Someone put that today (January 14 2010), NBC decided to bring Leno back to the tonight show, without any citation whatsoever. I haven't heard a single thing about this, so I'm going to remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.47.127.21 (talk) 21:45, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

NBC has made no decisions on this: NBC Rep: Leno Making "No Movement" Yet to Tonight Show --Scorp Stanton (talk) 23:31, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Chart

This chart (not in proper wiki syntax) was made and shows "The Tonight Show" family of programming. Could/Should/Would something like this be included on the page, provided it be simplified, well-organized, and in proper formatting?--99.29.140.62 (talk) 19:20, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Today   Tonight!
   |       |
   |       +------------------------------------+
   |       |                                    |
   +-------+                                   The Steve Allen Show (NBC)
    |                                           |
Tonight! America After Dark                    The Steve Allen Show (ABC)
    |                                           |
The Tonight Show Starring Jack Paar            The Steve Allen Show (syndication)
    |                                           |
    +--------------------------------------+   Jazz Scene
    |                                      |
The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson   The Jack Paar Program
    |
    +-------+------------------------------+------------------------------+
    |       |                              |                              |
Tomorrow   The Tonight Show with Jay Leno  |                             Later
    |       |                             Late Show with David Letterman  |
    |       |                              |                              |
    |       +----------------+             |                         Last Call with Carson Daly
    |       |                |             |
    |      The Jay Leno Show |             |
    |                        +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    |                                      |                                                 |
 +---------------------------------+       +-----------------------------------------------+ |
 |                                 |       |                                               | |
Late Night with David Letterman   The Late Late Show with Tom Snyder   The Daily Show      | |
 |                                 |                                    |   |              | |
 |                                 +------------------------------------+   |              | |
 |                                  |                                       |              | |
 |                                The Late Late Show with Craig Kilborn     |              | |
 |                                 |                                    The Colbert Report | |
 |                                The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson                   | |
 |                                                                                         | |
 +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------------------------+ |
 |                                                                                           |
Late Night with Conan O'Brien                                                                |
  |                                                                                          |
 +-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |                                                                                           |
Late Night with Jimmy Fallon                                The Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien

Jay Leno in 2004: "In '09, Conan, it's yours"

Jay Leno in 2004: "In '09, Conan, it's yours" - a most interesting analysis. Has some text info from Jay Leno's original announcement in 2004 about planning to leave The Tonight Show in 2009. Cirt (talk) 08:31, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Why are we ignoring current developments?

I am not sure if it has something to do with the Connan fans, but why are we denying that Jay is returning to Tonight? The article is very weak, implying that the situation "has not been worked out". Multiple news outlets (people, CBS, the Washington Post, Headline News, the New York Times, etc) are claiming that Conan is out and Jay is back. Can someone please update this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.154.125.135 (talk) 20:18, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, right?

For and against Conan

Because if it is, then all the stuff about who's for or against Conan is waaaay more detail than this article needs. A listing of a dozen actors and their opinions, plus references to those opinions, is well beyond what a general information article should have. Someone's gone overboard with their desire to document every little word said. Mongoose22 (talk) 05:50, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing up this concern. I have cut down the section to a more appropriate length. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 17:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Ratings during Leno's second tenure

I have updated the section 'Leno's Second Tenure' to recognise that - love him or hate him - he has re-achieved lead status consistently. Without that addition, the section reads as if Lenos show is a total failure; clearly the financial stuff is true - but is not specific to the Leno show, it's an NBC-wide issue. I fully expect this change to be reverted by Leno-haters in Wikipedia; do what you will. But rewriting history to vilify Leno is not exactly encyclopedia behaviour, is it? I've added a subtitle to first para in this section to clearly separate the issues. Heenan73 (talk) 09:57, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

shortest-serving?

not according to the table in the very next paragraph.

Conan's departure

Why are we not listing the scheduled end dates for Conan and start dates for Leno. I keep seeing WP:CRYSTAL quoted, however this is a verifiable and almost certain future event which would seem to satisfy CRYSTAL. It is also not "future history" as again this isn't a speculative event but a confirmed verified almost certain to happen future event. By the logic disqualifying this information from being listed we also should not list the upcoming Super_Bowl_XLV or the date range of World Cup 2014. Gateman1997 (talk) 18:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

The edits you were making, particularly this one, were suggesting that the "future" was the "present". It is only January 21 today, meaning Conan O'Brien is still hosting the Tonight Show, and Leno isn't hosting it until March 1. We can add all the information we need about the tenures in the body of the article, but adding future date ranges makes no sense. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 18:23, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

If the date range is listed (June 2009-January 22, 2010) for Conan and (March 1, 2010 - ) it makes perfect sense and fits with precedent on many other pages such as 2010 World Cup or 2010 Winter Olympics. I admit however listing it as (March 1, 2010 - present) would be incorrect and make no sense. Gateman1997 (talk) 18:26, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

But the MOS doesn't support listing any date ranges with just one year and then a dash (i.e. 2010–); there needs to be an actual year range or a "present". So since we can't apply "2010–present" to a Jay Leno tenure, as you've just admitted, then we can't make any adjustments until March 1 actually arrives. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 18:30, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually per WP:OTHERDATE we're both incorrect. Rather than either range we should list it in the table as something like "Beginning March 1, 2010" for Leno. The closed date however would suffice for Conan since we do have the end date of his tenure that fits per WP:CRYSTAL since it is a known, verified, certain to happen date. Gateman1997 (talk) 18:37, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Reading WP:OTHERDATE, you'll note the following quote: "Dates that are given as ranges should follow the same patterns as given above for birth and death dates. In the main text of articles, the form 1996–present should not be used, though it is preferred in infoboxes and other crowded templates or lists". So this does support usage of "present" in the parts of the article we are discussing. As for Conan's closing date, he is still hosting as of the present, so "2009–present" makes perfect sense. We can and will change this to reflect "2009–2010" tomorrow. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 18:40, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd argue the table we're discussing IS in the article not an infobox. But even if we do say that it is in an infobox we could still use the "beginning March 1 2010) as it wouldn't overly clutter the box and would be more informative and accurate than leaving out the information. Or if not that would this be an acceptable compromise. Conan with the closed date since we know when his last show is airing, and list Leno as (March 1, 2010 - future)? I can find nothing in the MOS that would preclude it and have found a few precedent cases supporting it though obviously I prefer the first option. Gateman1997 (talk) 18:47, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

I argue that the table we're discussing certainly falls under the "other crowded templates or lists" covered at WP:OTHERDATE. I will agree, however, to add Leno to the Infobox with "(beginning March 1)" after Conan's tenure ends tomorrow, but I do not agree to add him to the other table in the main text until he begins the tenure. All information needed about his March 1 takeover will be in the infobox and the lead. The table in question only supports a "from–to" range and thus adding Leno here would be impractical until March 1. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 18:56, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Seems a fair compromise. Gateman1997 (talk) 19:10, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Check out my sandbox where I've written up a potential version of the article that could exist between January 22 and March 1. I agree that it's a fair compromise. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 19:16, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Your sandbox article appears to balance it out well. Once the block is lifted I'd support adding your changes in. Gateman1997 (talk) 19:24, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good, but I think we should wait until Conan's last show ends to make all the changes regarding date ranges and Conan having hosted in the "past tense" and so forth. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 19:27, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment Unless I'm misreading the various dates, O'Brien is not the shortest-serving host. There appear to be quite a few others with shorter runs back in the 1950s and early 1960s. In the absence of any suitable references, i would just avoid the claim altogether. --Ckatz^chat_spy 00:45, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Noted and fixed. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 00:50, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Reality

There is no speculation. Here is the official word from NBC: http://www.thewrap.com/ind-column/new-nbc-breaking-story-13241

Why doesn't the article reflect REALITY?? 141.154.125.135 (talk) 18:21, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

• And here's the AP coverage: [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.146.81.123 (talk) 16:24, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Starting a new page for the new 2010 The Tonight Show with Jay Leno

Hello Everyone, I'm thinking that The Tonight Show with Jay Leno (1992-2009) show's page should not be touched! and there should be a new page for the new 2010 The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. Please give us your opinions.Loserjay10 (talk) 13:12, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I think the situation is comparable to the non-consecutive presidential terms of Grover Cleveland. Leno would be the 6th and 8th permanent host of The Tonight Show. There should be one article for The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, with sections for the two eras. Alternatively, all of his shows could be merged into his personal article. If the upcoming Tonight Show is essentially a continuation of production of The Jay Leno Show, an article organization that acknowledges that continuity makes sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.220.198.110 (talk) 19:18, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

We have to wait until NBC announces what the exact title of Leno's new show will be. If it's something like "The Tonight Show starring Jay Leno" or another title that is different than the original title "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno", then we can create a separate article for it. But if it's the exact same title, it would be best to keep it all at the existing article The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 00:09, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Regardless of the name however, shouldn't we list the second tenure of Leno as a separate section on this page to keep the host list chronological? Gateman1997 (talk) 03:07, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that is a great idea, Gateman1997, we should list the second tenure of Leno as a separate section, it all makes sense, this is the way to go! who do I/we talk to? To have this happen? if you guys look at the TV show "Top Gear" you can see they did the same thing Top Gear (disambiguation) they made a separate section because the original Top Gear was from (1977–2001) and there is now current (2002–present)Top Gear, the new current Top Gear has a separate section, I'm using this as good example of what we should do. Please everyone give me your opinion on this.Loserjay10 (talk) 09:13, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I've no objection to a second section. I don't support a separate article, though. There aren't separate articles for, say, Doctor Who despite its two widely-spaced runs. Of course if NBC ends up changing the title of the program from Tonight to something else, then that's another story. 68.146.81.123 (talk) 20:13, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Tonight back in Burbank?

One point referenced in this article is the show's change of taping venue from New York to Burbank and then to Universal Studios. Has it been announced if Leno will be doing the show from Burbank again, or will he be using O'Brien's studio? 68.146.81.123 (talk) 20:13, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, they announced the new The Tonight Show with Jay Leno will air from Studio 11 in Burbank, which is where The Jay Leno Show originates from now Mwhayes1995 (talk) 23:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Title Cards

What in the world are we doing with these title cards in the info box? I thought three was too much, but now someone has added a fifth and a sixth. It looks tacky and looks like someone is trying to please everyone out there.This shouldn't happen. Just use the current title card and be done with.--Jojhutton (talk) 00:27, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I removed all but the current title card.--Jojhutton (talk) 14:01, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. It looked good w/ Carson, Leno, O'Brien, and Leno, but Allen and Paar are too many. Mwhayes1995 (talk) 02:17, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Why did this happen?

Did anyone look at the articles of lists of episodes for Johnny's, Jay's, and Conan's episodes? They have the regular guests under "Guest hosts", and the musical guests under "Guests". And to add insult to injury, the "Musical guests" lists have nothing. We need to fix that pronto. Oh, and not just them, but Jimmy Fallon's Late Night episode list has the same problem. Can someone please change that back? Thanks. - Cartoon Boy (talk) 12:02, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Is the Leno cancellation story real or not?

Is this vandalism or real?
:Jimmy Fallon (2011)
On October 17, 2010 Comcast officially announced that only eight months into it's second life, The Tonight Show with Jay Leno had been cancelled. Comcast COO and incoming NBC Universal president Steve Burke announced that due to the ratings and also with Conan O'Brien's new New TBS show coming in November, the ratings for Jay's Tonight Show would become even worse. Burke went on to say that the apparent heir to The Tonight Show is Jimmy Fallon who had already hosted Late Night with Jimmy Fallon for more than a year which aired directly after Leno and Conan's Tonight Show. No comment was made regarding Fallon's current show Late Night and who the new host would be, Burke went on to say that the change wouldn't occur until early 2011, due to Jay Leno's clause.[citation needed]
_I_ could not find anything to verify it.

Me neither - that would certainly breaking news. I'll delete it. --Hansbaer (talk) 19:22, 19 October 2010 (UTC)