Talk:Tornadoes of 2020

Outbreak Draft
Made in preparation for a long two days. 🌧❄ϟ TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contributions) 05:06, 10 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I guess we'll see how this turns out. I'm not too keen on starting these articles early, but a draft won't do any harm. TornadoLGS (talk) 18:16, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Probably not gonna need this one given trends. Gonna try to stay ahead of these events though. Like you said, no harm in early drafts that I can easily delete later. 🌧❄ϟ TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contributions) 05:45, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Significant damage and fatalities have occurred from the storm. A couple strong tornadoes could still occur in Alabama today so an article may be needed. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 16:59, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Seems doubtful, though. Looks like it's playing out to be mostly a non-tornadic wind event. It will definitely get a section in the main article, though. TornadoLGS (talk) 17:25, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
 * At the present time, even though there have been 3 deaths in Alabama, I don’t see the need for an article. The section on this page should cover it. United States Man (talk) 18:29, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
 * As usual, as surveys pour in, more tornadoes than it looked at the time are being confirmed. In addition, yesterday was the largest January wind event on record. I'll probably continue work on the draft after class tomorrow. 🌧❄ϟ TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contributions) 23:42, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Do you think the non-tornadic effects warrant making this a storm system article rather than a tornado outbreak article? Also, NWS Pahducah just released survey results, but I don't have time to add them right now. TornadoLGS (talk) 00:54, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

What about the deaths in Louisiana? Do we know if that elderly couple that died in their demolished mobile home were tornado related? Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 19:37, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Too early to tell, though from the images I'd say there's a fair chance they were tornadic. TornadoLGS (talk) 20:00, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

South Africa Tornado
I’ve heard from some sources it’s an EF3 can anyone confirm? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Redfishtwofish (talk • contribs) 12:08, 16 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Confirmed TornadoLGS (talk) 15:30, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Killer tornado map
Can someone please update the killer tornado map so that louisiana has 3 deaths. It needs to match the rest of the page. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 21:44, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks to whoever updated the killer tornado map Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 17:12, 17 January 2020 (UTC)


 * No problem. For future reference, the killer tornadoes map is a template. Any changes to it have to made to its own page at Template:Tornadoes of 2020/Deadly. TornadoLGS (talk) 17:36, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Confirmed tornadoes
Someone needs to figure out how many tornado reports there are and how many of those are confirmed. In both January and February there are 3 more tornado reports than confirmed tornadoes. That means there are 6 tornadoes that have gone unconfirmed. Yet in the yearly totals there are only 2. Someone fix this please. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 20:58, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I've done it this time, but in the future you can be can be WP:BOLD and fix it yourself. There may be a couple reasons for this discrepancy. First, some people may update one total but miss the other. Other times, people go off this page, which can lag behind the actual running total. TornadoLGS (talk) 02:40, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

You don't have to be such a jerk all the time. Anytime anybody updates it that's not you, u change it back because its not "right". So even if I were to update it, u would probably change it back anyway, so what do u want me to do? I'm soooo sorry that I didnt update it myself. I'll remember that u know everything and that u always know the exact details of every event. My bad Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 22:57, 16 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I apologize if my comment came across the wrong way. I did not mean to sound demanding or impatient. I realize in hindsight that it might not be clear which number is correct. I have reverted a handful of edits on these articles that misinterpreted information, but if you look at the article history, I am not so controlling. TornadoLGS (talk) 08:22, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Nashville EF3 tornado fatalities
NWS Nashville has the number of fatalities from the Nashville EF3 at 5, not 6. Can someone fix the number on the map and other parts off the page?https://www.weather.gov/ohx/20200303 Gio52903 (talk) 12:55, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * There were 6, as confirmed by local news and EMA in Wilson and Davidson. Two in East Nashville, two on Catalpha Dr., one on Volunteer Blvd, and one on Eastgate Blvd. United States Man (talk) 15:27, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

I know this has been sour before, but if there truly were 6 tornado related fatalities from the Nashville tornado then I think the NWS would state 6 fatalities in the their statement. This tweet from NWS Nashville confirms only 5 deaths from the actual tornado. Link:(https://twitter.com/NWSNashville/status/1255245781172396034?s=19). Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 02:39, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Editors
I am having trouble finding tornado ratings for tornadoes from the march 18 & 19 tornado episode. I have added all tornadoes from nws forth worthx,texas and the ones from little rock, Arkansas as well as the 2 EF2's (one in texas and one in Arkansas) and the other weak tornadoes I could find on the spc website. If u guys find anymore that I havent added, i would appreciate it if you'd add them. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 15:18, 23 March 2020 (UTC)


 * This page is a good resource to use to find tornadoes and sources. Tornadotom666 (talk) 17:40, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Tishomingo
So... should we include the events of March 24 in this article? In my opinion the issuance of the tornado emergency is enough to warrant it. Tornadotom666 (talk) 13:46, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Nah, it’s one tornado. No injuries and comparatively little damage. If you want you can mention the tornado emergency on the monthly “list” page. We also have a page specifically for listing tornado emergencies. United States Man (talk) 14:02, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Yeah we dont need it in the article because it was only rated EF1 and there were only a couple minor injuries. Idk why people keep adding it back saying Huntsville hasn't rated there side of the track. They were the first ones to rate there side in Colbert county (EF1). They wouldn't find anymore significant damage in Alabama than in Mississippi because it was weakening while crossing the state line into Alabama. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 15:45, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Oh and Redfishtwofish, my name's not Kate its Kade. I'm a male not a female thank you. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 17:45, 26 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Agreed. For minimum notability guidelines, we more or less go by the criteria that Cyclonebiskit metioned back in 2011 of
 * 1. At east 3 confirmed tornadoes
 * 2. At least one tornado rated EF2 or higher
 * 3. At least one tornado-related fatality.
 * And even that gets a little wiggle room. Giving a tornado a section because unsurveyed damage might be rated EF2 is a pretty weak argument unless there is clearly significant damage. TornadoLGS (talk) 20:59, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

March 28
We're all keeping tabs on the severe weather ongoing this afternoon. At this point, I don't think an article is warranted. The Jonesboro tornado itself may need one depending on how surveying unfolds. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contributions) 23:31, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hate to say it, article was already started. Tornado outbreak of March 28-29, 2020. 8 Tornadoes confirmed so far. Elijahandskip (talk) 23:34, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
 * That literally had one line of information. Creating an article just for the sake of being the one to create it isn't helpful. See WP:NOTNEWS. Redirected for now and I cleaned up the section on this page. Additionally, March 29 has not happened yet so please do not include future dates in article titles. United States Man (talk) 23:48, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes, can we please avoid jumping the gun on making outbreak articles? There usually isn't much information to put in an outbreak article until surveys start coming in, so we should generally wait a day or two unless there has clearly been a major event. TornadoLGS (talk) 02:03, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

I am just about tired of having to revert overanxious edits and redirect premature stub articles... United States Man (talk) 03:34, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I will be upset now if the tornado is proven notable... I tried 2 times to create the article. I was in the process of adding a 3k byte add-on when the last one was deleted.  Elijahandskip (talk) 03:56, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Also just wanting to state, there is 19 tornadoes from this outbreak. Very surprised that doesn't make it notable. Elijahandskip (talk) 03:58, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * It is not so much that is isn't notable. It is that you need to WAIT until sufficient data has been released before you start trying to write articles. I think you're trying to "hat collect" on being the "creator" of all these articles, while forgoing notability and good content. United States Man (talk) 04:04, 29 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The articles aren't deleted; they were only redirected to the yearly article. If this event turns out to be article-worthy, then it can be restored from being a redirect. If we do end up making an outbreak article, we won't need a separate page for the Jonesboro tornado. TornadoLGS (talk) 06:22, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

March 31
Depending on how the rest of the afternoon goes, we might need another article for March 31. I've seen reports of significant damage across south alabama, including the Eufaula area. I just saw video on The Weather Channel showing a large wedge tornado that passed near Eufaula. Depending on how some of the tornadoes are rated, we might need an article. Thoughts? Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 18:04, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, first, do you mean a section or an article? As to thoughts, there isn't really much point in speculating on article-worthiness until we get detailed information,especially since the event is still happening. Early reports of damage can be exaggerated. TornadoLGS (talk) 20:04, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Sorry I meant section. There still are updated reports of significant damage across the south, so maybe there's a need for a section once more info comes in during the coming days. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 21:37, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * We will see. Looking at SPC reports, looks like 4 or 5 reported tornadoes so far. That list has a bunch of duplicates. United States Man (talk) 22:10, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * A section may be warranted. It is early yet, but some of the damage in Alabama looks to be at least EF2. TornadoLGS (talk) 22:59, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * For sure I was thinking the same thing. United States Man (talk) 23:01, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Agreed Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 23:20, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Question, when are we going to add the tornado reports and confirmed tornadoes from march 31st? I also dont remember march 28-29 being added either. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 12:35, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
 * We'll be able to put in a lot more information for the 31st when the damage surveys come in, most of which should probably be done by this evening. Tornadotom666 (talk) 16:22, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Why do u always delete my talk articles United States Man? It was just a question for anybody that wanted to answer. I just wanted to see what u guys thought might happen tomorrow? Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 18:07, 11 April 2020 (UTC)


 * As the link in 's edit summary says, the talk pages of Wikipedia articles are to discuss the content of the articles; they are not a forum for general discussion. This isn't the place for us to speculate on what might happen. Discussing the potential of possible future outbreaks does not contribute anything to article content. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:05, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Come on, theres nothing going on right now so what's the matter with having a small discussion. I just wanted to hear your guy's thoughts. I dont see what wrong with it. U guys take this too seriously. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 21:25, 11 April 2020 (UTC)


 * Because that's not what Wikipedia is for and off-topic discussions create unnecessary clutter on talk pages. Speculative discussion is what forums are for. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:38, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

"2020 Tishomingo tornado" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect 2020 Tishomingo tornado. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed,Rosguill talk 21:54, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

"2020 Tishomingo Tornado" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect 2020 Tishomingo Tornado. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. — &thinsp; J 947  [cont] 23:20, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

April 12 tornado outbreak
I have heard of at least 3 tornado related deaths in MS, 1 in Walthall county and 2 in Lawrence county. Idk when u want to add these but we need to stay tuned for possibly more fatalities. I'm sad to say that there will probably be more considering the strength of the two tornadoes that occured there. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 23:31, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

There are now three more fatalities in Mississippi for a confirmed total of 6 as of now. Number is still likely to go up. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 00:16, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Here are the latest PNS's (Public Information Statements) released by any and every WFO from yesterday the 13th through about 11:40 AM EDT today, the 14th of April 2020 - it'll "expire" (my paste) in 24 hours so I suggest if anyone wants to just save it or paste it into wordpad or whatever. Hope this is usefful. https://privatebin.net/?d134cc8d0472a527#AFYAanKqg7J3d6135LSBbdYAB2DtrrQJDZoKLfvEDPeY If you need them to be from an official source directly just go to: https://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/wx/afos/# and type in PNS in the top box, fill in "Date Descending Entries" as the number of PNS's you want as a max (I use 100) and start/end date in this format: 2020-4-13 2020-4-15 - Best of luck and thanks to all who contribute. ~Chris

DEFINITELY KEEP ADDING THEM THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP AND ASSISTANCE Smuckers It has to be good|undefined 18:33, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

You're quite welcome! Here's another paste. This is for yesterday's date and today's date and I capped it at 50 instead of 100. Just use control F and type damage survey and you'll see there are something like 24 of them. Some of course may be repeats. https://privatebin.net/?db2f40a2d669c9df#3KiGVscr1SurWDHfGN5P7HU5gjjU1U8X5ULQxyiEYtpW ~ Chris Psx1337 (talk) 14:34, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

I put a PDF up so the text paste expiring doesn't affect anything. docdro.id/jF6LlFb Also doing a control F search across the last 500 PNS's over the past 5 days I don't find any evidence of an EF-4 - I believe that tornado was taken down to EF-3. Psx1337 (talk) 15:49, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
 * What exactly are you talking about? There was an EF4 in Mississippi on April 12. United States Man (talk) 16:42, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Is the Hampton SC tornado an EF4 or what? I saw a tweet on Twitter saying that the found more intense damage and increased the winds to 172mph (rounded to 175). So what's the deal? Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 00:40, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Apparently Charleston said they will make an official determination whether to upgrade tomorrow. In DAT it is listed as EF4 but the station directly stated that data is unofficial. United States Man (talk) 00:42, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

thanks for actually knowing whats happening. Any of the links that people use for a reference for the ef4 upgrade don't work or take me to a page that won't load. Things are moving and changing so fast around here right now, and some of the edits are completely false. We also have a lot of new editors recently and some of them are adding false info. So again, thanks for actually knowing whats happening Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 00:48, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Tornado Fatalities
I did a recount of the tornado deaths from this year. Adding up the old total before the Easter Sunday outbreak (34) and adding the total number of deaths from the Easter Sunday outbreak (29), I got a total number of deaths from this year as 63. Also, the map plotting tornado deaths from this year is innacurate. There was one tornado in Mississippi that killed 3 people, another tornado in Mississippi that killed 7 people, 1 tornado in Georgia that killed 7 people, a tornado in Tennessee that killed 3 people, a tornado in South Carolina that killed 1 person, another tornado in South Carolina that killed 2 people, another tornado in South Carolina that killed 5 people, and another in South Carolina that killed 1 person. That total number of deaths from the outbreak, once again, is 29. Can someone please update the main page, the Easter Sunday outbreak page, and the map with this information? Thank you. Gio52903 (talk) 13:16, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

There were a total of 32 tornadic deaths from the Easter outbreak. An ef4 killed 4 in MS, an ef4 killed 8 in MS, an ef2 killed 7 in GA, an ef1 killed 1 in GA, an ef3 killed 3 in TN, an ef3 killed 1 in SC, an ef3 killed 2 in SC, another ef3 killed 5 in SC and another ef1 killed a further 1 for a total of 32. The total deaths from this year so far should be 66, 34 before the outbreak and 32 from the outbreak. You are right though, someone needs to update the tornado death map for this year because the numbers aren't right for each tornado and for some reason there aren't dates for each of the dots where tornadoes occurred. I personally don't know how to edit the map so I'd appreciate it if someone who knows how would fix it. Thank you! Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 23:02, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I corrected the count, removing 2 deaths from Mississippi that weren't related to tornadoes and one death from Tennessee that was actually already accounted for. As for the labels, I removed them because we have so many dots listed now that the labels clutter together. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contributions) 23:14, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Oh ok. I believe that had to be done for 2011 too right? Unless that map for 2011 wasn't made by wiki editors. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 23:18, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The 2011 fatality map was made by the SPC. TornadoLGS (talk) 03:53, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Well either way the dots are too close together to add dates. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 13:27, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

The death in MS on April 19 was related to the EF4 that night. Could someone put another dot on the killer map, because like I've said before, idk how to do that. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 01:06, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Article for April 23 outbreak?
Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on making an article for today's outbreak? Four fatalities and quite a few strong tornadoes with this one. Likely at least a few more tornadoes tomorrow as well. TornadoInformation12 (talk) 04:51, 23 April 2020 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
 * I think is planning on getting one going. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 04:56, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * There is already an article about the April 22-23 Tornado Outbreak here Destroyeraa (talk) 18:35, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Which was created by TropicalAnalystwx13 as Cyclonebiskit said and everyone here is aware of that at this time! United States Man (talk) 21:47, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok, Ok. No need to be rude. Cyclonebiskit said that TropicalAnalystwx13 was "planning" on getting one going. I was just putting the link in the talk in case someone did not see it. Destroyeraa (talk) 00:29, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Hampton County, South Carolina
The Hampton County, South Carolina has officially been upgraded to EF4. Can some edit the wiki pages with this information? https://twitter.com/nwscharlestonsc/status/1253690603235241985?s=21 Gio52903 (talk) 14:36, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ If you find anywhere else that needs to be changed feel free to edit yourself! United States Man (talk) 14:42, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

February 5-7 Outbreak notability?
I know it's subjective, but does this event really need an article? No tornadoes stronger than EF2, no strong tornadoes impacting populated areas, one fatality, only 37 tornadoes, and nothing unusual or notable about the outbreak itself. I know a lot of work was put into the page, but there are have been events more significant than this one that don't have their own articles. Is there something I'm missing here? TornadoInformation12 (talk) 05:52, 26 April 2020 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
 * I agree with you. I think we're a little too liberal with outbreak articles around here anyway. United States Man (talk) 14:45, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * 37 tornadoes, the largest wintertime outbreak in the Washington DC area, and nearly $1 billion in damage meets notability. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contributions) 17:03, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It's marginal, but it does meet the rule-of-thumb criteria laid out here. For me, it kinda falls in a gray area. I wouldn't vouch for its creation if we were discussing it now, but it's notable enough that, since it's been here a while, I don't think there's a need to go through the work of deleting or merging it. If it were just a stub I might support merging it. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:13, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * If I may add something here its that I'm actually with the others on this one. The article is nicely put together, but there is nothing really there in my opinion that wouldn't fit in the section that's on the main page. I'm usually not for getting rid of articles, but I'm not sure that this one is needed.ChessEric (talk) 18:44, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

EFU/EF? tornadoes from NWS Norman
While checking the NWS Norman page for updates on the Madill tornado that I'm making a section for, I noticed that there were 3 EFU/EF? tornadoes in their chart. They all had times given for them as well as start and end points. The 1st 1 from January 10 has already been added here, although it is missing from the outbreak page, but the other 2 from April 22 are not. While nothing has officialy been released on them yet, can a confirmation on the chart be enough to add those tornadoes here and on the outbreak page? ChessEric (talk) 20:04, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
 * If they have the info, they can be added. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:09, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

May 12-18
Is this prolific enough to really be considered a tornado outbreak sequence? There are always at least daily weak tornadoes throughout almost every mid to late May, and this is never referred to as an outbreak sequence, its just yearly climatology. Also, nowhere else has labeled this to be an outbreak sequence event. That terminology is reserved for events such as what happened throughout late May of last year. Also, what we're seeing now is actually BELOW the norm. Also there are no confirmed tornadoes from the 13th. I'm thinking this section should only include May 15-17. TornadoInformation12 (talk) 02:29, 19 May 2020 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
 * We probably could just limit it to May 15-17 or 16-17. The closest analog I can think of to this was the Tornado outbreak sequence of March 18–24, 2012, but that was much more prolific and was largely from the same cutoff low. TornadoLGS (talk) 03:25, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think we are seeing a recurring problem here that every time a tornado occurs some people think it deserves a section on this page. The 15-17 or 16-17 is fine, but definitely not 12-17, so thank you for removing that. United States Man (talk) 04:41, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * No problem. It's been a boring May, and people are itching to publish info, even if there's nothing significant enough to publish.

TornadoInformation12 (talk) 05:35, 19 May 2020 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
 * Hey guys. I was the one who orginally made the section on May 16 since May was doing almost NOTHING AT ALL which, as you all know, is HIGHLY unusual. Anyway, I'm sorry I went overboard. I had been literally just updating and correcting the old tornado pages and was itching for something so much that I might've rubbed some of you the wrong way. Please forgive me.ChessEric (talk) 14:54, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Tables for single tornado events?
Last year we didn't post EF scale tables along with single tornado events, such as the Kaiyuan, China EF4 and the Ichihara, Japan F2. Now I'm seeing tables again on the 2020 page for the Ampumalanga, South Africa EF3, and the Apodaca, Mexico EF2. Which is it? Table or no table for these single tornado events? I don't care either way, but we need to have consistency year to year. What is the consensus? TornadoInformation12 (talk) 03:33, 3 June 2020 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
 * I don't think we ever established any consensus are consistent practice, though I personally don't see any point in having the charts for such events. TornadoLGS (talk) 03:58, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll remove them then for consistency's sake.

TornadoInformation12 (talk) 03:59, 3 June 2020 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
 * My fault again. Sorry. ChessEric (talk) 13:02, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

June 1, Severny, Russia tornado
So on June 1st, the city of Severny, Russia in Belgorod Oblast was hit by a fairly damaging tornado. Damage images show removal of apartment building roofs, major tree damage, and vehicles overturned. It hasn't been rated yet as far as I know, but damage looks like high-end EF1 to low EF2. I'm on the fence if this event was significant enough for inclusion. There is a decent amount of information online about this event, but I want to hear other opinions regarding a section. Also, could someone help me find what it was rated as well, if it does end up being rated? It is important to not be too US-centric when adding to the main page. There have been concerns about this, and lets make sure to post plenty of info on non-US significant tornadoes. This one seems borderline though. Thoughts? Also, it was part of a small outbreak that produced a few other weak tornadoes in Italy and Greece. TornadoInformation12 (talk) 03:58, 3 June 2020 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
 * If it is an EF2, yes. Otherwise, no. While this article isn't specifically for the US, I think only significant events, like strong tornadoes and/or tornadoes that cause fatalities, from outside the US should be included. ChessEric (talk) 13:06, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I also want to point out that most significant events occur in the US anyway. ChessEric (talk) 22:07, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I would be in favor of mentioning either just this tornado or the whole outbreak across the other countries. United States Man (talk) 22:17, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I can't prove that it was of EF2 intensity or higher though. The structures that lost their roofs are the type of apartment buildings in Russia that are notorious for poor roof construction, and frequently loose their roofs in moderate straight-line wind events. It theoretically could have been as weak as EF0 to EF1. Also, further research shows that the other tornado events that occurred that day were waterspouts that caused no damage. The European Severe Weather documents fair weather waterspouts and tornadoes as the same phenomenon, which is flawed, obviously.

TornadoInformation12 (talk) 22:35, 3 June 2020 (UTC)TornadoInformation12

May 20 section for Colorado landspouts
6 very unusual and unique landspouts touched down in Colorado within miles of each other. One was on the ground 6-8 miles from the parent thunderstorm under bright blue skies. While they were all weak EF0 that did little to no damage and caused no casualties, is it possible to make a section for them? ChessEric (talk) 00:17, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Since nothing really resulted from them, there's no reason to have them on the main article. Best kept just to the monthly list. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 05:29, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Tornado emergency list
I know this isn't really the page to do this on but nobody has been on the actual tornado emergency page in 2 months. The 2 EF4 tornadoes in MS on april 12th both had tornado emergencies on them. First warning was issued for the first ef4, but that tornado dissipated after the warning was issued but the warning continued until the second ef4 touched down. And obviously more emergency warnings were issued after that. But i would suggest we add that to keep the pages accurate. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 05:18, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm actually in the process of revamping that entire page. If you go to my page, you'll see where I'm working on it because there A TON of emergencies missing. It is currently on the back burner right now while I work on these older tornado pages, but feel free to update it and the main page. I will warn you though: I have a very specific way I like to format pages, so I may do mini edits of others big ones. LOL! Anyway, hope that helps.ChessEric (talk) 23:03, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Ok sounds good! I totally forgot you were redoing the page. I just came across it and realized that the first tornado was missing from the count and I thought id mention it. Great work on the new page tho, I like how its set up. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 02:55, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Tornadoes associated with Tropical Storm Cristobal
Tropical Storm Cristobal's passage right in front of a slow-moving cold front has led to some confusion on whether or not the derecho on was June 10 was caused by the cold front, Cristobal remnants or a combination of both. I was under the impression that the cold front almost solely contributed to the formation of that squall line, although Cristobal did play a limited role in it. However, the article on Cristobal's says that it triggered the derecho. So which one is it? I'm only asking because if its the latter or a combination of the two, the portion covering June 10 will have to be moved to the correct place.ChessEric (talk) 14:46, 24 July 2020 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, the derecho was not caused by Cristobal, but I am not an official source, so I will have to dig up some references giving us that needed info. HurricaneGonzalo &#124; Talk &#124; Contribs 13:54, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree, find a source linking the two, or otherwise keep them separate. ♫ Hurricanehink ( talk ) 15:20, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Article for Hurricane Isaias Tornado Outbreak
With a-lot of tornadoes to be surveyed and how significant, destructive, and deadly this event was, in my opinion, the Hurricane Isaias tornado outbreak deserves it's own article. Gio52903 (talk) 12:58, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * As far as outbreaks go, this doesn't look too impressive. Mostly weak tornadoes with just a handful of strong ones and two deaths is not all that notable. Isaias already has an article; a subsecton there will do. TornadoLGS (talk) 18:59, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh, but Tropical Storm Debby from 2012 gets it's own separate article? That one produced only 25 tornadoes, 1 strong tornado, and 1 death. This has more deaths, probably more tornadoes, and more strong tornadoes. That's kinda BS. Gio52903 (talk) 01:28, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry but we don't base things off what you think they should be. I happen to agree that this doesn't meet the requirements for an article. A section on this page and at Hurricane Isaias is more than enough. United States Man (talk) 02:44, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERSTUFF applies. There arguably shouldn't be an article for the Tropical Storm Debby outbreak. I would not be opposed to a merge in that case. TornadoLGS (talk) 05:28, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

I firmly believe that Isaias deserves it's own page. It has the first tropical EF3 in 15 years. Let alone has 1 more significant tornado. The requirements for this wikipedia has been messed up for years though, Gio makes a perfectly good point. Tornado count is only to go up in the following days as well. But that's my opinion. FreakShow91V2 (talk) 03:17, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Isaias has its own page. The tornado outbreak would create an unnecessary content fork. The small amount of tornado outbreak info can go at Hurricane Isaias and Tornadoes of 2020. Not every little tornado event needs an article. United States Man (talk) 03:38, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

The tornado event has now become quite significant, with nearly 20 tornadoes confirmed, including an EF3 and many EF2s in areas that rarely receive tornadoes. The argument that it isn't "significant enough" is no longer valid. 8medalkid (talk) 20:05, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Just after I posted that reply, a PNS from NWS Pittsburg confirmed yet another EF1 that tracked for 29 miles through Delaware. I have zero doubts it now qualifies as a tornado outbreak. 8medalkid (talk) 20:08, 6 August 2020 (UTC)


 * This needs an article at this point. One of the most significant tropical-cyclone related tornado outbreaks in recent memory.

TornadoInformation12 (talk) 20:08, 6 August 2020 (UTC)TornadoInformation12

Confirmed tornadoes of 2020 "so far"
time and time again, I see numbers not match up on this page. The most recent example is the chart on the top of the page saying 712 confirmed tornadoes, yet when I recount all the confirmed tornadoes from each month so far, I only get 641. Thats a 70 tornado gap. The point, is that we need to update all the numbers at the same time so they match, dont update the number of confirmed tornadoes without having evidence they occurred, and make sure to add any tornado to the "list of confirmed tornadoes in 'month'," so we have accurate info. I dont know where those 70 new tornadoes came from but they aren't attributed to any particular month and theres no evidence these 70 tornadoes even happened. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 21:04, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I checked the edit history, and the total was changed by a user who has been doing quite a bit of disruptive editing on various articles. If they change it again I will give them a final warning. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:54, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Ok thanks. I get really confused when stuff like this happens because ope, all of a sudden there's 100 new tornadoes added to the tally without sources and theyre never added to the months they occurred in. But thanks again. Kade Ydstie45 (talk) 22:30, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Article for Hurricane Isaias tornado outbreak.
Hurricane Isaias has generated what I believed was the most significant tornado outbreak caused by a tropical cyclone since 2012. I was thinking of starting an article on it because the section for it could become overcrowded and there at least 5-10 tornadoes that don't have ratings. Thoughts?ChessEric (talk) 18:54, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree, but many people before have claimed that the event was not significant enough to warrant an article. However, considering the number of tornadoes that have now been confirmed, I'd say to go ahead with it. 8medalkid (talk) 20:03, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Page has been started so feel free to edit when you can.ChessEric (talk) 21:43, 6 August 2020 (UTC)


 * It's marginal, but I guess it does fit the criteria here. I would not use Tropical Storm Debby as a basis for creating the article, and I even considered putting in a merge proposal for the TS Debby outbreak. TornadoLGS (talk) 00:47, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Hurricane Isaias tornado outbreak article?
Thinking this event was article worthy, considering the multiple strong tornadoes and two deaths. Also notable as EF3 tornadoes are not typically produced by hurricanes. Thoughts? TornadoInformation12 (talk) 20:05, 6 August 2020 (UTC)TornadoInformation12


 * Aaaaand I just saw this has already been discussed. My apologies. Still though....this needs an article.

TornadoInformation12 (talk) 20:07, 6 August 2020 (UTC)TornadoInformation12

Its alright. It happens! LOL!ChessEric (talk) 21:44, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Help with confirmed tornadoes
NCDC reports are out for January to May of this year and A TON of new tornadoes have been confirmed. Can I get some help here? Thanks!ChessEric (talk) 16:25, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Wow, you weren't kidding. Only got through May 22nd for May so far and already added 30 new tornadoes. Thanks for the heads up ! 453Brax (talk) 02:52, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Your welcome! I was shocked at how many new ones there were myself! LOL!ChessEric (talk) 03:40, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

June is out now! LOL!ChessEric (talk) 04:12, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Updates can also made for April.ChessEric (talk) 16:59, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Can someone help with July?ChessEric (talk · contribs) 20:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Yep, I'll help with adding July. 453Brax (talk) 20:40, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Deland florida
Is the August 18th event even worthy to be on here? It was only two tornadoes. Redfishtwofish (talk) 15:59, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The rule-of-thumb that came up in the 2011 talk page would seem to indicate that it is notable enough for inclusion, since one of the tornadoes was rated EF2, though this one is questionable since the survey inidcates that there was only marginal EF2 damage. TornadoLGS (talk) 03:33, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

The thing is there have been other EF2s this year without their own section here, this one doesn’t stand out in any way neither since it only caused low end damage and was a 2 tornado outbreak. I think it could have a lengthy section in the list of tornadoes in August but I don’t think it deserves to be here. Redfishtwofish (talk) 13:20, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Yeah, those criteria do allow for some questionably notable events to be included. I would not object to its removal since it was a marginal EF2 with no injuries. TornadoLGS (talk) 22:45, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Anyone else have any objections to taking it down? If not I’ll do it tommorow. Redfishtwofish (talk) 23:26, 25 August 2020 (UTC)


 * None here.ChessEric (talk) 19:29, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Damage viewer replacement
The damage assessment tool has been a great resource in confirming tornadoes for quite some time now. However, with Adobe Flash being discontinued, there are going to be MANY instances where the source for it won't work and possibly a few tornadoes that will need new sources, as they won't be any place else. Can we start the process of deciding how are we going to replace it?ChessEric (talk) 01:11, 29 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Wow. Nobody has replied. Long-term, we can use NCEI since tornadoes usually get added there after 3-4 months. Currently that includes every U.S. tornado up through May of this year. That may mean we'll have to wait to add some tornadoes (mostly EF0 and EFU) until NCEI releases if they weren't explicitly confirmed in PNS or LSR statements. Of course, it's also possible that the page will be updated to work without flash, though I'm not very optimistic there. Rather frustrating since we still have a lot of dead links from c. 2014 and earlier due to discontinued NOAA pages. TornadoLGS (talk) 17:17, 17 September 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm surprised it took that long for someone to reply myself. I hope the DAT gets a new map source too, but I like your suggestion as well.ChessEric (talk) 18:26, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
 * It looks like it has a snazzy new interface so it seems it will still be functional. I actually hadn't checked it recently since I kind of assumed it would soon be defunct. TornadoLGS (talk) 05:18, 30 November 2020 (UTC)


 * It is now using ArcGIS and not Adobe, so it looks like it is going to stay. Thank you Lord! I didn't want to deal with that issue! LOL!ChessEric (talk · contribs) 01:48, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

"Drillbit"
There seems to be a slow edit war going as to whether to call the Dalton, MN tornado of July 8 a drillbit. Do you thank that can be settle here, and not in the edit summaries. Personally, I am inclined to agree with ChessEric. We do have a source calling it a drillbit. A width of 650 yards is too big to be called a drillbit, but that width only refers to the peak size of the tornado. A quick search of videos (e.g. ) show that it does seem to have been a drillbit at one point. TornadoLGS (talk) 18:34, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

The videos clearly show the tornado only became a drillbit at really the end of its life only when the mesocyclone really thinned out and the tornado became smaller as a result just before rope-out. That is a drillbit and I understand that, but for most of its life it appeared to be bigger OakhurstWX (talk) 18:40, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

I understand what and others are saying about this tornado. I understand what the official PNS has listed on this tornado was. I even understand that the peak width of the tornado was WELL bigger then what would qualify to be a "drillbit" type tornado. Here is where I disagree: most of the worst damage from this tornado came WHILE IT WAS A DRILLBIT. Storm chasers, media outlets, and even experts called this a "drillbit" tornado as well. For those reasons, I think this information is useful to point out since many people associate violent tornadoes with big tornadoes (i.e. The 2.25 mile wide Bassfield, Mississippi EF4 tornado), but this tornado for most of its life was not that at all. Additionally, I saw the tornado live on The Weather Channel and was absolutely amazed by the amount of damage it left behind (I know that doesn't really count for anything, but hear me out here). I'm willing to keep it out of the description for the tornado on the tornado list page, but as for the main page, I really think it should at least be mentioned.ChessEric (talk) 20:43, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

The tornado did not cause its worst damage when it was in the drillbit stage. Aerial imagery reveals a clear path of ground scouring extending from the start of the tornado to where it roped out, suggesting the tornado maintained its intensity even when it was in its biggest stage. In fact, damage photos from cornfields this tornado scoured while it was at peak intensity clearly show mature corn crop ripped from the ground, leaving bare soil in some places. Yes, the tornado remained very intense when it morphed into the drillbit stage and still produced scouring, and I agree it should be mentioned in the description, such as at the end of its life when the tornado was filmed up close my Michael Marz and Basehunters as it scoured ground just before rope-out commenced. OakhurstWX (talk) 01:06, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Ashby didn't really have much deviation of vegetation damage nor ground scouring over most of it's life, although when it morphed into it's "Drillbit stage." I still don't find this information worth mentioning since any violent drillbit in the Northern Plains has been like this. It's a pretty common occurrence given the conditions that are usually in place for summer events. FreakShow91V2 (talk) 23:18, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

You are talking about one place in the country though. Just because its normal there doesn't mean it is all over the world. This page covers not just the United States, but the world as well.ChessEric (talk) 02:43, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Indonesia tornadoes
Maybe we should add separate article for individual tornado or tornado outbreaks in Indonesia. Alvaro ivan daniswara (talk) 12:11, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It depends on the event. There are general criteria laid out here. It's not a hard-and-fast rule, but it gives a general idea of what is probably notable enough for an article. Even if it does meet these criteria, we should only go ahead with an article if there is enough information from multiple independent sources. TornadoLGS (talk) 17:57, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Alvaro ivan daniswara (talk) 04:07, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

2021 article
Since the time is fast approaching, I do think we should briefly discuss when to start Tornadoes of 2021 since, in the past, people have created these articles too early. I think we should wait until it is 2021 at least somewhere in the world. At the very earliest, this would be 10:00 UTC on December 31 (00:00 UTC January 1 Kiribati time), but even that is a stretch. TornadoLGS (talk) 03:29, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

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 * 2020aug-derecho-ottawa-illinois-tornado.jpg

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Concern about Ottawa, IL "tornado" photo
I don't know if this counts as original research, but after examining it closely, I can confidently say that the August 10 event photo does not show a tornado. What we are seeing is motion blur from a leaf or small piece of tree debris whizzing past the camera. I know it's from a NWS source, but that feature in the photo is being misinterpreted as a funnel. While a tornado did hit Ottawa that day, it was a small and weak QLCS tornado embedded within a derecho, cloaked by dust and precipitation. No other photos or videos of this event show any kind of funnel, nor are there any eyewitness or spotter reports of any kind of visible funnel. This video on YouTube shows the Derecho/Tornado hitting town, and at no point is there anything remotely similar to what is shown in the photo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJgt38PHJeQ

Again, if there's nothing I can do, then I'll leave it up, but it has been bugging me quite a bit, and I'd like to at least replace it with a different image. Thoughts? TornadoInformation12 (talk) 02:35, 17 September 2021 (UTC)TornadoInformation12


 * Maybe the picture still shows the debris cloud of the tornado surrounding the photographer? Honestly, if there are doubts about the its legitimacy as a photo of a tornado, I wouldn't be opposed to simply removing it. TornadoLGS (talk) 02:55, 17 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I think it could possibly be a debris cloud, but a derecho was hitting town during the tornado, and videos of it impacting Ottawa show a lot of airborne dust and tree debris from straight line-winds, and it looks indistinguishable from the photo in question. Anyway, I'm gonna go ahead and remove it.

TornadoInformation12 (talk) 02:36, 18 September 2021 (UTC)TornadoInformation12

Help with NCDC reports
,, , I know we are busy with the current outbreaks, but can someone PLEASE help me correct all these reports for 2020? Most of the NCDC reports have not been added and I can't do this by myself. ChessEric (talk · contribs) 19:14, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I have a few real life matters to attend tot his week, but I'll pitch in. On another note, I saw the pings giving you some trouble, and I wasn't sure if you saw my ping on another talk page? TornadoLGS (talk) 20:15, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? ChessEric (talk · contribs) 20:37, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
 * , I pinged you and a few other editors to Talk:Early May 1965 tornado outbreak, but nobody replied. I wasn't sure if, for some reason, the ping didn't work or if everyone decided the matter wasn't worth addressing. TornadoLGS (talk) 19:25, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh; yeah I didn't get that. Weird. ChessEric (talk · contribs) 19:47, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

April 19 and June 8 EF4 tornadoes; Why don't these have articles?
It seems weird not to have articles about these. I've kinda changed my mind in terms of having articles about EF4 and F4 tornadoes since the Anderson Hills tornado deletion proposal, and these two really stand out to me. Why don't these tornadoes have their own articles?

I have a few reasons why these two tornadoes should have their own articles. Poodle23 (talk) 16:06, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Dalton, MN
 * The location of the tornado is usually not what you would expect with an EF4 tornado, obviously.
 * Another reason is that the tornado was a small drillbit at one point in its life. Sure, some counter arguments will be made to this, like "we have them every now and then", but I still think this is a viable reason for this tornado to have its own article.
 * The tornado's path got very unusual towards the end of it, as it made 2 sharp turns before dissipating, as seen on the DAT.
 * Sandy Hook, MS
 * This tornado wasn't in an unusual location, but it did cause a fatality, unlike the Dalton tornado.
 * As it was moving east, it passed south of the city of Hattiesburg, which had previously been hit with two major tornadoes; an EF4 in 2013, and an EF3 in 2017 that killed 4 people.


 * Both the events you refer to were deleted or merged after AfD discussions here and here. I don't think any of the points you make lend these events much notability. Minnesota is certainly no stranger to F4/EF4+ tornadoes. Idiosyncrasies like odd turns, a drillbit stage, and coincidental proximity to previous tornado paths are just curiosities, really not lending much notability, if any (see e.g. this deletion discussion). Such aspects can be described in a sentence or two. In both cases, we're talking about rural tornadoes with not all that much damage and only a handful of injuries and fatalities. TornadoLGS (talk) 20:42, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree with LGS. Highly illogical for these to have articles. Any information is easily contained within the table to the section on Tornadoes of 2020. United States Man (talk) 04:10, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

As far as the first event (which I originally made the section for (sorry I'm very proud of this)), the EF4 tornado was really the only notable thing in that outbreak, and it occurred in a mostly rural area. I know it wasn't the only tornado to cause casualties, but an outbreak article for that event just doesn't warranted for it, although I will admit that it really is on the borderline between having and not having an article in my opinion. The second event just straight up doesn't need one. The summary for the EF4 tornado in the table is good enough and the outbreak as a whole was summarized adequately without needing an article. ChessEric (talk · contribs) 04:46, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

WP:TornadoCriteria Rare Oddity Cases
Hey. I just saw the disagreement between you and the IP user via my watchlist. Actually, the IP user would be correct. The entries don't pass automatic WP:TornadoCriteria. Since there is a disagreement between users for inclusion of them, could you explain or give a reason for the following events on how they pass the "Rare Oddities" clause of WP:TornadoCriteria, as that is the only reason the events can/should be included: As a small note, I do support the inclusion of June 6–9 (Tropical Storm Cristobal), September 16–18 (Hurricane Sally) & December 16 (United States) as a rare oddity since those events have stand-alone articles. The others though, I currently do not support the inclusion of unless a case can be made for the rare oddity clause. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 19:29, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 1) March 30–31 (United States)
 * 2) June 6–9 (Tropical Storm Cristobal)
 * 3) August 14 (Midwest)
 * 4) September 16–18 (Hurricane Sally)
 * 5) November 30 (United States)
 * 6) December 16 (United States)


 * ...I will admit that was kind of me just being salty...and the fact that I would've put all the clears back.
 * March 30-31 had the distinction of "one tornado makes an outbreak bad." The Eufaula EF2 tornado tracked for almost 30 miles, caused significant damage, and injured a person. It may not be much, but I thought it was worth knowing. I'll let you be the judge of that one though.
 * I got nothing for August 14; November 30 had an article attached to it; that's about it...yeah. They can go. Chess  Eric  19:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * So, I actually hadn't done a true spot-check on the entries vs the criteria. Not that I have, let me do a few quick notes:
 * March 30–31 (United States) does pass Point 1 in WP:TornadoCriteria as it caused an injury. The section doesn't include the injury info, so it looked like it didn't pass, but it does in fact pass.
 * June 6–9 (Tropical Storm Cristobal), now merged into Tropical storms Amanda and Cristobal doesn't actually have a section in the article for the tornadoes. I would be inclined to remove this one.
 * August 14 (Midwest) doesn't seem to have any rare or high-impact tornadoes and only one EF2. I would be inclined to remove this one.
 * September 16–18 (Hurricane Sally) actually does pass Point 1 in WP:TornadoCriteria as it caused an injury. The section doesn't include the injury info, so it looked like it didn't pass, but it does in fact pass.
 * November 30 (United States) technically has an article, but a really poor-quality one. I'm actually thinking this should be excluded and maybe that article be AFDed? Honestly not sure on this one. Tornadoes aren't significant at all and no clear passes on the criteria.
 * December 16 (United States) has an article that is actually in decent shape. This should be kept under the rare oddity criteria as the overall event warranted a stand-alone article.
 * Do you agree with those assessments? The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 20:04, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Can you clarify your statement in regards to the Tropical Storm Cristobal section? I agree with all the other assessments. Chess  Eric  20:17, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, so the overall article for Cristobal doesn't even have a section about the tornadoes. So, it seems they aren't that important. I vote to remove it (weak remove). Also, it looks like someone else already removed it, but that can always be reverted if others feel that section should remain. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:01, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I’ll have to look into the December 16th part and I’ll get back to you on that one. But I agree on all other points. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 19:34, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Based on that. I’m kinda neutral on the December 16th issue. I agree on all other points. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 19:36, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Actually, I am in weak support of keeping Dec 16 just because of the Nor’easter article. West Virginia WXeditor (talk) 19:36, 6 June 2024 (UTC)