Talk:Udo Zimmermann

(Die) Weiße Rose
This edit in the German Wikipedia (edit summary: die Oper heißt nur "Weiße Rose" ohne das "die" (oft auch auf CDs etc. falsch)) triggered some research on my part on the name of Zimmermann's opera Weiße Rose — whether there is "Die" in the title or not. I found numerous web references to both versions, but the clincher was the publisher's catalogue which confirmed the omission of "Die": first version, second version, both versions on one page (select "Deutsch" from the language selection box at the top of the page to see the German title). See also, particularly these 2 images. I then changed the title on this page and presented the sources at Talk:Die weiße Rose (opera), together with a suggestion to move that page to its proper title.

then with the edit summary: "fix opera title per spelling in Grove". Apart from the fact that Grove is not infallible, in this particular case I find that, despite Nrswanson's assertion, they partially support my finding. The article on Udo Zimmermann at Oxford Music Online uses "Weisse Rose" twice, and the page there on Zimmermann's works does. too — their erroneous usage of "ss" notwithstanding. I did notice that the Grove list of Zimmermann's works uses Die Weisse Rose for the first version, but that is trumped in my opinion by the publisher's use of the title without "Die" and Grove's own use on Zimmermann's page. At any rate, the second version is the one which is now performed.

I suggest Nrswanson revert the title to its proper version. Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:21, 26 January 2009 (UTC) 


 * I completely agree with Michael Bednarek. Grove may be the best overall opera reference book around but it is not Holy Writ. The publisher's title should trump them, particularly for a 20th century opera, and particularly when Grove itself is inconsistent on the issue. (I'm copying this comment to Talk:Die weiße Rose (opera)). Voceditenore (talk) 08:18, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm... it seems odd to me that there would be such a consistant error across numerous sources. However, given that the actual recording of the work is titled "Weiße Rose", I too am now persuaded to change the title per Michael's suggestion. On a side note, I think it may be possible that the original version may have been titled "Die weiße Rose" but the revised version was renamed just "Weiße Rose". I recall reading something like that somewhere but for the life of me I can't remember now where it was (if I remember correctly it was an article in German). If that's the case it certainly would explain why several different sources have used Die weiße Rose and others just Weiße Rose.Nrswanson (talk) 21:10, 26 January 2009 (UTC)