Talk:Urbanization/Archive 1

Archive 1

Delisted GA

The lead is too long, generally, a lead is about 3 to five paragraphs, and only around five for exceptionally expansive articles, of which this is not one. Also, "examples" is where the real background behind this effect should be, but just listing a few examples isn't much of a detailed explanation, it needs some history or something down there describing things in more detail, so it's not sufficiently broad. Finally, the references are a bit odd, because you've mentioned them directly in the article, which isn't really a proper way of referencing things and takes away from the article being well-written by concentrating on minutia in people's select works, and it would help if somebody could make them into inline citations. Homestarmy 01:02, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

we have a serious issue of vandalism in this article, let's please restore the content to it's original state, and crack down on unjustified deletions and inappropriate behavior. 24.82.82.18 06:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

other definition

'Urbanisation' also refers to the movement of a specific population (a particular ethnic minority, for example) from rural to urban areas. This might not significantly affect the population or ethnic makeup of the cities but will be significant to that people. For example: 'In the mid 20th century the Maori people became increasingly urbanised, leading to significant cultural change'. I think there should be a section on this; at the moment the focus is on the growth of cities rather than the transfer of population, and urbanisation (as I understand it, anyway) is both. --Helenalex 00:24, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Recording

I've removed the audio recording because the page has changed so drastically. I'm pretty upset over it. The page has evolved backwards IMO from what it was. From an urban planning background, I just don't understand how some of the material is being addressed. Urbanization has been fleshed out far too extensively from scholar works to various magazines and newspapers discussing the effects of such, there is really not that much controversy or gray area to dabble over. Please help improve this article so that it can at least be GA status again. .:DavuMaya:. 19:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Off

This article brings up some good aspects. However, may things are off. Wording is wrong, flow is off, there's no timeline, wrong words are used and the description is not proper. There was no mention of economies moving out of being being agrarian.

Examples: (1)The urbanization of New Mexico City is called immaculate. Even if you are to consider it an immaculate city. That is not an accurate description of any type of urbanization.

(2) A caption for a picture shows LA as an example of urbanization. Wrong. Urbanization is a process. LA is an example of an urbanized area. If a before picture, from a century ago, of desert or irrigated farms of LA was shown also, then that description could be used.

(3) The bullet point sentences have no lead-in and are disconnected.

In general, poorly written. Sorry to be so non-generous with the comments. I should write an article myself. I am studying for a Master's in Urban Planning. If I write something of significance, I would take the time to do it right. Only so much time and priorities. 68.180.38.31 (talk) 06:07, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Article focus, cleanup

I just noticed now an IP address noted they were simplifying the intro summary. However the new edit drastically changed the focus which made me realize that perhaps not everyone is on the same page. Here is what urban planners know and what the United Nations state that urbanization is:

• Growth of existing urban areas into rural areas

Here is what the IP edit suggested:

• Movement from rural into urban areas

The key difference between these two is that movement itself from a rural to an urban area is NOT urbanization. Many cities and especially ones that were depleted in the 1960s on can support quite a larger population than they do now. Even though they are absorbing more people, we do not call this urbanizing nor urbanization. Urbanization is specifically a physical expansion of the urban area that comes with associated effects of population growth. It's a very distinct technicality that describes a phenomenon of essentially overnight urban growth but on a massive scale not seen before. Chicago for example has pretty much reached an expanded level of physical growth but it continues to grow in population size, thus it would be considered in redevelopment, reclamation, or revitalization, not urbanization. For a source of what I mean by this click here [1] .:davumaya:. 11:14, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Second thought, while I'm not keen to refocus the article (the proper term is urban migration), I'll add it as a secondary definition, the UN does somewhat use urbanization in terms of "people urbanizing" that is saying they are now living in an urbanized area. The MOVEMENT itself though is more properly addressed as migration. .:davumaya:. 11:43, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Urbanization has been given two definitions. There is however also the article Rural-urban migration. Would someone consider separating the two issues better, or is a merge preferable? Gabriel Kielland (talk) 14:33, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I think they should be combined in order to present a better picture of both topics. Rural-urban migration accounts for most of urbanization and urbanization in turn plans FOR in-migration. And then of course the second definition being urbanization "as movement" meaning people who are rural-urban migrants are essentially "urbanizing." And the term "urbanization" means to move from rural to urban. I think this is a bit of a stretch to apply this definition (urban planners do not really consider this second definition). Even though the UN does, the UN's take is new in the scope of the term historically (per WEIGHT). A merge would adequately present both topics and explain each other. .:davumaya:. 16:55, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Point of View?

I have issues with a few paragraphs here:

"These conditions are heightened during times of change from a pre-industrial society to an industrial one. It is at this time that many new commercial enterprises are made possible, thus creating new jobs in cities. It is also a result of industrialisation that farms become more mechanised, putting many labourers out of work. This is currently occurring fastest in India."

There is no reference for this statement. Moreover, modern scholars are not in agreement that the movement from pre-industrial to industrial societies will be identical for third world nations today compared to Europe and America in the 18th and 19th centuries. This paragraph implies that urbanisation creates jobs, which is not necessarily agreed to by sociologists and economists.

"Urbanization is often viewed as a negative trend, but in fact, it occurs naturally from individual and corporate efforts to reduce expense in commuting and transportation while improving opportunities for jobs, education, housing, and transportation. Living in cities permits individuals and families to take advantage of the opportunities of proximity, diversity, and marketplace competition."

This paragraph is certainly expressing a particular point of view and once again with no citations. Urbanisation occurs "naturally?" According to whom?

In his book Whole Earth Discipline, Stewart Brand argues that the effects of urbanization are on the overall positive for the environment. Firstly, the birth rate of new urban dwellers falls immediately to replacement rate, and keeps falling. This can prevent overpopulation in the future. Secondly, it puts a stop to destructive subsistence farming techniques, like slash and burn agriculture. Finally, it minimizes land use by humans, leaving more for nature.[12]

I have no problem with expressing this opinion of Mr. Brand. It might be wise to consider including a few counterpoints. I would be surprised if Mr. Brand's theory holds water in say, the slums of Lagos or Accra. I am unsure what the mainstream enivoronmentalist views would be, but this seems to also be a non-neutral point of view.

Urbanization in the United States never reached the Rocky Mountains in locations such as Jackson Hole, Wyoming; Telluride, Colorado; Taos, New Mexico; Douglas County, Colorado and Aspen, Colorado. The state of Vermont has also been affected, as has the coast of Florida, the Birmingham-Jefferson County, AL area, the Pacific Northwest and the barrier islands of North Carolina.

In the United Kingdom, two major examples of new urbanization can be seen in Swindon, Wiltshire and Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire[7]. These two towns show some of the quickest growth rates in Europe.

Are these examples relevant to the article? They seem oddly out of place.

--Octavian2009 (talk) 15:55, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

urbanization

I want to know about urban story from beginning to end? Why urban causes, how developed, who help them. please help me on this topic —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.62.220 (talk) 10:01, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

urbanization-challenge for public health203.196.136.198 (talk) 08:25, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

i need comments n questions related to this topic. please help me out.

are there any differences between urbanization and urban development? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.44.161.241 (talk) 06:10, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Environmental Effects - NPOV

I'd like to see a more NPOV in the discussion about environmental effects. Stewart Brand is strongly pro-urbanisation, but some of the points attributed to him are questionable. Subsistence farming, including slash and burn farming, is not necessarily environmentally destructive (see for example P.Richards 'Indigenous Agricultural Revolution') and in any case very few people now migrating to cities were formerly slash and burn farmers. Nor does urbanisation necessarily minimise human land use - cities are fed by industrial-scale farming in rural areas, and because they're relatively wealthy (and people move to them in order to become more wealthy) they often tend to have a larger ecological footprint than rural areas ("Whereas most of the people may have moved elsewhere, rural lands and ecosystem functions are being exploited more intensely than ever in the service of newly urbanized human populations" W.Rees & M.Wackernagel 'Urban ecological footprints: why cities cannot be sustainable' Environmental Impact Assessment 16 (1996): 223-248 p.236). For balance, I think such environmental negatives ought to get a mention in this section of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PitchforkRebel (talk • contribs) 19:59, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

There is too much glib jargon in this article to the detriment of population and economic factors

The movement section totally ignores family size issues and inheritance practices that lead to landless children who have to leave home in search of support. This is especially important once the demographic transition gets into full swing and more children survive early childhood. In ecology this is called a density dependent effect. In geography it might be called a push factor. In demography it is called surplus population. There is also no history. Urbanization as a process began thousands of years ago, not in the last few decades, so there is a lot of material missing on how and when and where and why people started to move to urban areas and what they did there.

146.226.30.27 (talk) 20:19, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Historical graph needed

We really need a graph showing urbanization in the light of centuries or millenia, to demonstrate that only recently most of the world was urbanized. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:42, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

RP vs. GA

Per WP:RETAIN (part of the more general guideline on which national variety of English to use in an article): "When no English variety has been established and discussion cannot resolve the issue, the variety used in the first non-stub revision is considered the default." One of the earliest versions employed British English with "-ize" (Oxford spelling) (see WP:IZE). I am goint to makes changes in accordance with WP:RETAIN and WP:CONSISTENCY. I am also going to add a 'Use British (Oxford) English' language tag to the article. --Omnipaedista (talk) 22:04, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Definition

I feel the term needs a reliably sourced definition. I've made an attempt at one [2], based on the corresponding Medical Subject Heading, which is one possible reliable source used in life sciences. However, I think the sentence could almost certainly be improved. 109.157.83.50 (talk) 10:52, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Dr. Henderson's comment on this article

Dr. Henderson has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:

OK, but short (dated) on the economics perspective and issues for cities in developing countries

We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.

Dr. Henderson has published scholarly research which seems to be relevant to this Wikipedia article:

• Reference : Henderson, J Vernon & Venables, Anthony J, 2004. "The Dynamics of City Formation: Finance and Governance," CEPR Discussion Papers 4638, C.E.P.R. Discussion Papers.

ExpertIdeasBot (talk) 12:45, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Demographics Section

A section on demographics relating to Urbanization would be a good addition to the page. It could be broken down country-by-country or as larger identifiable trends. Guyarv (talk) 20:38, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Formatting Under "Economic Effect"

In the beginning when referencing Eric Hobsbawm's book and taking a direct quote from it, shouldn't that be better cited using Wikipedia's already built-in citing system? And also, shouldn't there be no direct quote at all, rather it should just be a statement and cited?GrantDrum (talk) 04:25, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Dominant Conurbation

The paragraph on dominant conurbation doesn't give a definition of the term, and it doesn't give any information to tie it into the topic of urbanization. Without either of these, it doesn't seem to be adding to the article at all. NiciaD (talk) 18:35, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

General Notes

Not everything is relevant in the article. When listing negative effects of urbanization, the author claims the urbanization in Thailand has resulted obesity. The author doesn't support their claim in the least, and there is no obvious correlation between urbanization and obesity. This is why this article is not very good. It has vague statements that aren't illustrated with analysis. There is little fluency in the type of writing, as ideas aren't connected. Stylistically, the whole writing style is choppy and stagnant AFHW (talk) 01:43, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Historical Content and Information

There needs to be more information added to the historical section of this page. There is more information and examples of large cities and city centers across the world, especially in Asia, Africa, and the Americas. The author just mentions Mesopotamia and Egypt but there is much more to it than that. The author should provide more sources when referring to historical facts about urbanization. How important are the historical facts of urbanization? Does an adequate background of the history of urbanization help us grasp the emergence of the modern form of urbanization?

--Yussef13 (talk) 19:41, 24 January 2018 (UTC) Yussef

Urbanization and Mental Health

Looking to start a section on urbanization's effects on mental health under the "Health and social effects". Will add more once I get more concrete sources and information sorted out from my sandbox. Gracelagasse (talk) 17:17, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Urbanization and the Environment

Interested in adding more information on how urbanization can contribute to habitat loss and the extinction of species (Atopperaa (talk) 11:53, 16 October 2018 (UTC))

Food Waste

I think it's great that food waste was included in this article as a contributor to environmental effects. I'd like to see more on how food waste is being dealt with moving forward as this section is underrepresented.Pjbpdx (talk) 20:47, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Urbanization map: color scheme update proposal

I'd like to propose a change to the color scheme of the urbanization map. See here Genetics4good (talk) 16:37, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

The WP:RFC process is not intended to be used to publicise a discussion that is taking place elsewhere. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:02, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Noise pollution

Interweaving the issues of noise pollution would also be good for this article. Jamzze (talk) 07:35, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Suggestions for Improvement

There appears to be many high quality references noted at the end of the article. However, there is a lack of in-text citations given in several key places such as the third paragraph of the lead-in to the article as well as the third paragraph of the history section and in numerous places throughout the changing forms section. Another issue is that the history section ends with a mention of how Yale is using its Urbanization data to make videos about the history of Urbanization. This doesn't seem to fit since until this point this section has only talked about the history of Urbanization not about how the history is being used and presented by an institution such as Yale. Caleb26 (talk) 04:01, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

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Coronavirus

The article says "Differences in mortality from contagious diseases vary depending on the particular disease and location." I don't see how that can be a reasonable characterization of the problem. When it comes to Coronavirus, all of the rapid-spread, high-mortality areas are dense, urbanized areas. At minimum, this prominent example should be mentioned. In Wikipedia "anyone can add to the article". But I suspect that the problem here is not that nobody thought of this.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.185.180.195 (talk) 21:25, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Good west and poor east

Hobsbawm’s point was explained by the wind in Lewis Mumford’s The culture of cities, as quoted by Pekka Haavisto in his 2017 book Lippunosto; see also Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2006_July_22#European_cities_and_towns:_good_west_end_and_poor_east_end. Kaihsu (talk) 19:58, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

What's the importance of urbanization in small town??

. 2402:3A80:1869:BDEC:23E8:8F4E:7ED1:3E23 (talk) 15:16, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Urbanization in small town will definitely help to increase population in metro nopolitan city . If we develop infrastructure and gives career opportunities to the youth they will stay at their native placea and these will reduce the migration of people from rural to urban area. 103.167.245.188 (talk) 04:40, 20 March 2023 (UTC)