Talk:Wali Sanga

comments
Wali Sanga are the reputed founders of Islam in Java- the importance on a cultural basis is one of over 400 years of traditions arising from their activities. The low importance is not understanding of javanesse culture or its components SatuSuro 06:59, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

The low importance is a reflection of low recognition, meaning that this is actually an obscure term outside of Indonesia except for academics and mystics. Martindo (talk) 00:25, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Ancestral Genealogy
There is no references to tell Wali Songo are chinese descendants, although one of them might have that maternally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Buhadram (talk • contribs) 02:03, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I have removed the following from the article text because it is simply commentary about speculation. Discussion of authenticity of sources should be here in Talk, not in the article.

References stating allegations that Walisongo derived from or Chinese descent can only be tested through its academic sources, which referring to the article of Onggang Mangaraja Parlindungan, which then refers to a person named Resident Poortman. However, Resident Poortman until now have not been able to be identified as well as its credibility as a historian, for example, when compared with Snouck Hurgronje and L.W.C van den Berg. Dutch historians today that had been reviewing a lot of history of Islam in Indonesia, namely Martin van Bruinessen, which is well recognized by his very detailed and widely used as a reference, was never even once mentioned the name of Resident Poortman in his books.

Martindo (talk) 10:49, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Text from wali songo article
The nine walis were Sufi teachers who spread Islam and did all variety of powerful and unusual acts across Java. The histories of these men are not always clear. In fact, if you try to count all of them, you will end up with more than nine. Some sources say that there was more than one group of nine. The most probable explanation is that there was a loose council of nine religious leaders, and that as older members retired or passed away, new members were brought into this council.

Symbolically, for later rulers on Java, the wali songo provided a link between the rulers of Majapahit or earlier kingdoms, and the rulers of Mataram, and eventually the Sultans of Yogya and Surakarta. They were both links in the dynastic family trees and cultural links, as they adapted the old arts and traditions to the new Islamic reality.

In spite of the confusion, and some of the legends told about them, these were real men, and some of them such as Gunungjati or Kalijogo (Kali Jaga) were important figures who helped create the Java -- and the Indonesia -- that we know today.

Here is an incomplete (or maybe too complete!) list of the Wali Songo. Most of them did their work in the late 1400s to mid-1500s C.E.:


 * Please feel free to incorporate any part of this text or not! SatuSuro 22:58, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The text is very sketchy. I will add some from Stephen Headley and Martin van Bruinessen. Headley suggested that Wali Songo were *invited* to Java by Muslims already present. Van Bruinessen discusses Banten especially Sunan Gunung Jati. Martindo (talk) 00:25, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

The section Names of the Walisongo is derived from individual WP pages dedicated to each of them with supporting evidence of chronology. Please do not modify this section without accessing the link provided with each name. Modifications of this section should be made consistent with necessary changes in the individual pages.Martindo (talk) 11:43, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Grave Locations / Family Relationships / Silsila
The section titled "Grave Locations" primarily lists a set of wali songo and only mentions a few of their graves. It would be more useful to readers to devote this section to summarizing the inter-relationships among the wali songo, perhaps displaying the list as a chart. Dates of births and deaths (where available, or at least estimated) should be included in order to clarify the fact that some wali taught others. Grave sites should be retained in the section, but presented as auxiliary info subordinate to a new title such as "Relationships among the Wali Songo". There is good reason for considering them as a set, which is not stated clearly here. If anything, the mention of additional wali suggests that the association is almost arbitrary. Martindo (talk) 05:30, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Genealogy
(Note:This section was removed as there is no WP:RS to accompany it, and parts are in indonesian and not enlgish - and is practically meaningless to the average reader SatuSuro 13:45, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Geneaology
The Wali Sanga (also transcribed as Wali Songo) are revered saints of Islam in Indonesia was a descendant of Abd al-Malik al-Azmatkhan also known as Azmatkhan family with his genealogy :


 * Maulana Malik Ibrahim Maulana Malik Ibrahim bin Barakat Zaynal 'Alam bin Husain Jamaluddin al-Akbar bin Ahmad Syah Jalal bin Abdullah Khan bin Abdul Malik Azmatkhan al-Husaini


 * Sunan Ampel Maulana Ahmad Rahmatullah bin Ibrahim Zainuddin Akbar As-Samarqand bin Husain Jamaluddin al-Akbar bin Ahmad Syah Jalal bin Abdullah Khan bin Abdul Malik Azmatkhan al-Husaini


 * Sunan Giri Maulana 'Ainul Yaqin bin Ishaq bin Ibrahim Zainuddin Akbar As-Samarqand bin Husain Jamaluddin al-Akbar bin Ahmad Syah Jalal bin Abdullah Khan bin Abdul Malik Azmatkhan al-Husaini


 * Sunan Bonang Maulana Makdum Ibrahim bin Ahmad Rahmatullah bin Ibrahim Zainuddin al-Akbar As-Samarqand bin Husain Jamaluddin al-Akbar bin Ahmad Syah Jalal bin Abdullah Khan bin Abdul Malik Azmatkhan al-Husaini


 * Sunan Drajat Maulana Qasim bin Ahmad Rahmatullah bin Ibrahim Zainuddin Akbar As-Samarqand bin Husain Jamaluddin al-Akbar bin Ahmad Syah Jalal bin Abdullah Khan bin Abdul Malik Azmatkhan al-Husaini


 * Sunan Kudus Maulana Jakfar Shadiq bin Usman Haji bin Fadhal Ali Al-Murthada bin Ibrahim Zainuddin Akbar As-Samarqand bin Husain Jamaluddin al-Akbar bin Ahmad Syah Jalal bin Abdullah Khan bin Abdul Malik Azmatkhan al-Husaini


 * Sunan Kalijaga Maulana Abdus Syahid bin Ahmad alias Raden Sahur alias Tumenggung Wilatikta (Tuban) bin Syekh Subakir alias Muhammad Al-Baqir alias Mansur (Mansur nama yg trcatat di alawiyyah) bin Ali Nuruddin bin Husain Jamaluddin al-Akbar bin Ahmad Syah Jalal bin Abdullah Khan bin Abdul Malik Azmatkhan al-Husaini


 * Sunan Muria Maulana Umar Said bin Abdus Syahid bin Ahmad a.k.a Raden Sahur a.k.a Tumenggung Wilatikta (Tuban) bin Syekh Subakir a.k.a Muhammad Al-Baqir a.k.a Mansur bin Ali Nuruddin bin Husain Jamaluddin al-Akbar bin Ahmad Syah Jalal bin Abdullah Khan bin Abdul Malik Azmatkhan al-Husaini


 * Sunan Gunung Jati Maulana Hidayatullah bin Abdullah 'Umdatuddin bin Ali nuril Alam bin Ibrahim Zainuddin Akbar As-Samarqand bin Husain Jamaluddin al-Akbar bin Ahmad Syah Jalal bin Abdullah Khan bin Abdul Malik Azmatkhan al-Husaini

Chinese names of the wali songo
http://books.google.com/books?id=vIUmU2ytmIIC&pg=PA239#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 20:15, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Other Sufi figures
Other Sufi saints and missionaries of Java that came before the Wali Songo, from Suryono (2014), Atlas Wali Songo. The Indonesian Wikipedia already has articles on some of them. See also id:Kategori:Tokoh penyebar Islam di Indonesia.


 * Fatimah Binti Maimun. Buried in Dusun Leran, Desa Pesucian, Kecamatan Manyar, Kabupaten Gresik (p.51).
 * Syaikh Syamsuddin al-Wasil. From Abarkuh, Persia. Buried in the Setana Gedong grave complex of Kediri (p.56).
 * Syaikh (Sultan) Malik ash-Shalih. King of Pasai buried in Kecamatan Samudera, Aceh (p.61). Grave is similar to that of Queen Nahrisyah.
 * Syaikh Maulana Malik Ibrahim (from Kashan, Persia; p.66). Buried in kampung Gapura, Gresik, Jawa Timur.
 * Syaikh Jumadil Kubra. Buried in Tralaya, Mojokerto, Jawa Timur (p.69). / Syekh Jumadil Qubro
 * Syaikh Ibrahim as-Samarkandi (Tyulen, Mangystau Region > Samarqand > Champa > Palembang > Tuban; p.75). Buried in Desa Gisikharjo, Kecamatan Palang, Kabupaten Tuban (p.72).
 * Syaikh Hasanuddin "Quro" Karawang (Champa > Karawang > Melaka > Karawang; p.80). Buried in Dusun Pulobata, Desa Pulokalapa, Kecamatan Lemahabang, Kabupaten Karawang (p.78). / Syekh Quro
 * Syaikh Datuk Kahfi. Buried in Gunung Jati, Cirebon (p.82). / Syekh Datuk Kahfi
 * Ario Abdillah Palembang (Ario Damar). Buried in Kebun Sahang KM 4, in front of the Palembang Heroes Cemetery (Makam Pahlawan Palembang) (p.86).

Others:
 * Putri Champa. Buried in Dusun Unggah-unggahan, Desa Trowulan, Kecamatan Trowulan (p.49).
 * Kubur Pitu (Grave 7) in the Tralaya Grave Complex, Dukuh Sidodadi, Desa Sentonorejo, Kecamatan Trowulan, about 750 meters south of Candi Kedaton and Sumur Upas (p.49).
 * Sunan Bungkul. Buried in Surabaya (p.50).
 * Sunan Pandaranan. Buried in Semarang (p.89).

Majapahit figures and grave sites:
 * Arya Menak Koncar, a noble of Lumajang. Buried in Desa Kutorenon, Kecamatan Sukodono, Lumajang. (p.95)
 * Makam Raden Bondan Kejawan, about 10 km south of Purwodadi in Dusun Barahan, Desa Tarub, Kecamatan Tawangharjo, Kabupaten Grobogan (p.95).
 * Makam Batoro Katong in Ponorogo.

&mdash; Stevey7788 (talk) 16:45, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Contradicting dates
This article, at this stage (9 May 2016), contains some contradicting years, especially regarding of Maulana Malik Ibrahim. Moreover, the writing style needs further editing.Kembangraps (talk) 14:40, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Emergence and Conversion
The Dha'wah section is full of POV (e.g., asserts that Majapahit had class structure but subsequent Muslim societies did not), reads like original research (long and rambling with lots of interpretations and very few references), and is insulting ("Javanese were arrogant"). I recommend deleting this entire section, and moving it to Spread of Islam page. Martindo (talk) 11:06, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

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Primary and Secondary Sources
Most secondary sources point back to legends, which makes verification difficult for this article. Some of the recent sources are either echoic or strongly POV. Note that both Marco Polo and Cheng Ho supposedly used the same phrase to describe the "ignorant" local inhabitants: "worshipped trees, rocks, and spirits." The reference attributing this phrase to Cheng Ho is from an NU publication, which appears to be a medium for proselytizing. Thus, although NU is "reliable" in the sense of deserving respect and having a large organization, its inevitable POV on religion make its publications less "reliable". Martindo (talk) 13:22, 26 September 2022 (UTC)