Talk:White stork

Picture
I have taken a "real picture" of the White Stork.

Can be seen on the danish wiki http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hvid_stork

BrianHansen 17:06 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Thank you Brian, it's always better to have photos, jimfbleak 07:45 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

White Stork in The Netherlands
The data of number of breeding storks in The Netherlands is outdated, according to the Dutch Centre of Field Ornithology (www.sovon.nl) there are roughly 350 breeding pairs. 145.97.215.13 (talk)
 * Can you find an appropriate reference? Only one I could find quickly was 273 breeding pairs in 1998 . If you have appropriate source, please update article and add link to the source as well. DLX 18:32, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't give a reference but having just seen more storks in a single field than wikipedia says are in the whole of nl, I can certainly say that the cirrenb figure is wrong and needs removing if noone can improve on it.--94.157.243.176 (talk) 16:02, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I think it says something about the quality of this page that the data has not been updated in 15 years.(2A02:A440:948D:1:C1C8:9D22:E0CC:C32A (talk) 16:59, 1 May 2021 (UTC))
 * Well, you can complain about it, or you can provide a reference and update it! I suppose it's easier to just complain. MeegsC (talk) 20:01, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

White storks in Burgenland, Austria
Neusiedlersee (New Settlers Lake) in Burgenland, Austria has a sizable white stork community. In fact many of the cities surrounding this lake RELY on the nesting storks for tourism. It would be nice to see Austria included as one of the european countries that 'hosts' the migrating and nesting storks. Sadly I am just a visitor to the region at the moment, so I cannot provide numbers or cites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Belindalibrarian (talk • contribs) 10:17, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

White Stork is the collaboration for December 2010
Nominated November 30 2010;
 * 1) Support: -Shyamal (talk) 04:33, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) Maias (talk) 05:02, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * 3) Sabine's Sunbird   talk  08:24, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * 4) -- Kim van der Linde at venus 00:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Very high visibility bird (responsible for bringing babies in much of Europe!), with considerable published research and article in rather poor shape. Shyamal (talk) 04:33, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * And I want to add, the baby-stork story has more truth to it then people think, not that they bring babies, but that storks are generally more common in areas that also carry larger families. This is because of a correlation between the fertility of the ground that makes both higher stock populations and bigger families possible. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 00:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Lead pic
File:Ciconia_ciconia_(aka).jpg Should we replace the current taxobox pic (which is an immature bird, as the dusky tip on the bill and duller legs indicate) with a picture of an adult? Or is that not important? There's a pretty good pic of an adult (see right), but it's a captive bird with the requisite band. MeegsC | Talk 15:56, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The new infobox image is a clear image of a zoo bird. Snowman (talk) 17:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Infobox legend
In the infobox, why is 'migration routes' larger than the other items in the legend? — focus 17:17, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't know, not sure how to fix either colour

Images and refs
 Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  15:20, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I've checked the licensing of all the images and tweaked the captions where necessary
 * I've had a couple of runs through the refs, added one for arrow-stork, but taken two dead links out and replaced with cite tags. I've tidied up the refs to be of consistent style (no full stop after initials, abstracts linked only from doi/pmid, one subscription only tag added etc) The journals aren't all spelt out in full
 * Not sure that the Ukrainian and Polish refs in last section bear close scrutiny

Some refs about Stork in Culture
Hi, Found some refs but too busy to do anything with them anytime soon. Perhaps someone would like to trawl them for linking the White Stork back to Pythagoras etc.


 * http://storks.poland.pl/interesting_facts/article,Stork_in_beliefs_culture_and_history,id,88382.htm


 * http://books.google.co.in/books?id=SzEIAQAAIAAJ&ots=IF6oNSO5Rv&vq=stork%20Pythagoras&dq=White%20Stork%20Pythagoras&lr&pg=PA8#v=snippet&q=stork%20Pythagoras&f=false


 * http://books.google.co.in/books?hl=en&lr=&id=9v567GJJuKgC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&ots=kyTQ1ZFIZf&sig=Ep1si7sdCpX3S_eUKHjE9m-6z2E#v=onepage&q=stork&f=false - Aristotles History of Animals in Ten Books, Author Richard Cresswell, Publisher READ BOOKS, 2008, ISBN 1409782468, 9781409782469, Length 340 page.

The Wordsworth Dictionary of Phrase and Fable - Wordsworth Reference Series, Author Ebenezer Cobham Brewer, Publisher Wordsworth Editions, 2001, ISBN 1840223103, 9781840223101, Length 1158 pages.
 * http://books.google.co.in/books?hl=en&lr=&id=IgjAJazrBWwC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=Stork+Pythagoras&ots=bph9a6WgPE&sig=p0SCMNwDCqejMeKLqfci2P2WHZc#v=onepage&q=stork&f=false


 * http://books.google.co.in/books?id=VD1jAAAAMAAJ&pg=PT787&lpg=PT787&dq=Stork+Pythagoras&source=bl&ots=f1A7AFiv_3&sig=csxQ3gc41cegrUAFZA18utOYZBg&hl=en&ei=t-D7TKL_G8XVrQeJmLGSCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Stork%20Pythagoras&f=false A general biographical dictionary, Volume 2, A General Biographical Dictionary, John Gorton, Author John Gorton, Publisher Whittaker and co., 1838, Original from the University of Michigan.

AshLin (talk) 05:19, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems that past versions of this article had referenced facts which can be retrieved as also the past and present versions of Mythology in Stork. AshLin (talk) 05:29, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
 * And a couple of images that need more background for inclusion. Shyamal (talk) 14:27, 28 December 2010 (UTC)


 * The Hans Christian Anderson illustration can be included, since it can go on the English Wikipedia, though not on Commons; I've nominated it for deletion on Commons. &mdash;innotata 00:24, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Might the one on the left refer to cranes? (I remember reading in a book on bird names about battles between cranes and pygmies recurring in ancient literature.) &mdash;innotata 00:27, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * That's book 3 of the Iliad. One translation is at s:The Iliad (Murray)/Book III. You're right, though; it's cranes, not storks. Ucucha 20:46, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Buzzard
At the moment, buzzard in the Culture section goes to a disamb page, should it be pointed to Turkey Vulture?  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  12:37, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd say yes. That's what most non-birding Americans are referring to when they say "buzzard".  Just wondering if that would be considered "OR" by the OR police.  It might be worth a footnote, with a reference.  MeegsC | Talk 14:21, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't see fixing a disamb as OR, but I take your point. Added ref for name  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  15:32, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

To do?
Apart from the lead, which I assume will come last, I think the content is now pretty comprehensive. Is anything missing? We don't have any predators, but I suspect a bird this big has few natural enemies, nice if we could get a source that says that.
 * I think I have a source for that. I can still think of a few things we could add:


 * Territoriality? Site fidelity, etc. (apparently, this is more important than mate)
 * Social behaviours, including courtship.
 * The cultural section is completely Euro-centric. Is there nothing from India or Africa?
 * Probably incomplete as per European culture is concerned too. AshLin (talk) 05:23, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Although we don't want this section to get too unwieldy, or might need to hive off as separate article. Islam is not primarily a European religion.  Jimfbleak  -  talk to me?  07:32, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess also trying to enusre general stork material goes to that page, and just keep cultural material specific to the species here. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:56, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Ditto for the population and conservation section.
 * We should put a hidden message in the "External links" section, telling people NOT to add nestcams to the article. MeegsC | Talk 18:36, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the map legend looks strange, with the long red line. Is there any way to make it the same length as the color boxes? — focus 20:46, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It can be included in the map if need be, but I think in recent times the de facto norm has been to have external legends, one option is to skip the red line and caption the map appropriately. Shyamal (talk) 02:14, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying we should have the legend in the image, just that the red line is a bit long and it looks somewhat strange. — focus 02:33, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * After muddling with the legend template I think the problem is that the line is made to appear at mid height by altering the font size and that means that alignment is not scale free. The only way seems to be to us a table to align the legend and text blocks but I have posted a fix request for the legend alignment.


 * There are long term population charts for some sites and it may be nice to have one to illustrate population changes and the country estimates would perhaps be nicer in a table. Shyamal (talk) 02:14, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll have a go at making the population data into a table when I get time. — focus 02:33, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Now that I think about it, a table with the populations and population trends for each country would be pretty long. Perhaps there's a better way. Is the population for every country necessary to include in the prose? — focus 14:59, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * would agree with a trim, perhaps to totals of the western and eastern population from the most recent "International White Stork census". Is the Alsace-Lorraine decline particularly important ? Shyamal (talk) 05:10, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * No more than any other decline. It looks like someone added the information after reading a newspaper article. MeegsC | Talk 13:53, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Art
I am not sure where to put the art pictures showing storks, especially as one is very tall. I have put them in a gallery at the bottom of the page for the moment temporally, and put relevant photographs with the text. Comments welcome on any of the illustrations. The tall picture could be sized with an image width of about 100 to 120 px, which is smaller than for a normal shaped image, and put in the text. Snowman (talk) 20:38, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that the images should be removed altogether, or somehow incorporated into the article. I like the idea of making the tall painting smaller. Care to try it? — focus 03:59, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Flocks in Africa
Re: File:Ciconia ciconia -Serengeti National Park, Tanzania -flock-8.jpg. Is there any literature on large flocks in Africa? Snowman (talk) 17:02, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Birds of the Western Palearctic says that the storks are "highly gregarious" in their wintering quarters (as well as on migration and at concentrations of food), congregating in flocks of "hundreds or even thousands". Most of Europe's White Storks overwinter in savanna from Kenya and Uganda south to the Cape Province of South Africa.
 * Ummm...know which page? Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:59, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 328 for the bit about being gregarious, 331 for the bit about where they overwinter. MeegsC | Talk 03:51, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * terrific/thanks/added. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:00, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I have placed the image on the page, but I have not got the image placement right yet and the caption could be better. The text needs a bit more detail about the flocking behaviour in the article. Do they gather to feed or roost or both? Presumably they are wading in the water shown in the image looking for food? Are these water pools/lakes a source of food? and if so what food is found there? Snowman (talk) 12:05, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If you look at the feeding section, frogs are a major food item  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  12:21, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, the photographer disturbed the flock, because all of them look like they are walking away from the camera, and it does do not look like they are looking for food. Snowman (talk) 16:03, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

migration
I've tidied migration. The original text gave the impression that one reason storks crossed at the Bosphorus and Gibraltar was to avoid the desert. In fact, soaring birds cross there to minimise the distance over the thermal-free Med. Many non-soaring birds cross the Med and Sahara on a broad front, and if the map is correct, North African storks also cross the desert  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  17:49, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Migrating birds are also seen on Cyprus, in the middle of the Mediterranean. It is a rare breeding bird there. From book; "Breeding Birds of Cyprus". There is not much detail in my book, and other books could be a better reference, if it is important. Snowman (talk) 16:43, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Some birds go astray, like those turning up in the UK, and especially the Madeira vagrant, so it's not surprising that some migrants turn up on Med islands, and even stay to breed. I don't think you need much detail, since it's pretty minor compared to the huge numbers through the Bosphorus  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  17:40, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Distribution
A distribution section should probably be included, most of the information in the conservation status can be difficult to understand without historic distribution information. Have added a record of breeding from Scotland 1416 but this needs to move into a more comprehensive distribution section. Shyamal (talk) 14:23, 28 December 2010 (UTC) asiatica seems to have a deficit - would someone with access to - Ming Ma and Cai Dai. 2002. The fate of the White Stork (Ciconia ciconia asiatica) in Xinjiang, China. Abstract Volume. 23rd International Ornithological Congress, Beijing, August 11-17,2002, p.352 - add more ? Shyamal (talk) 15:42, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Article status?
The month's almost over, so I'm wondering what else needs to be done on this article. Perhaps it should be taken to GA nominations? — focus 23:58, 24 December 2010 (UTC)


 * This species will have loads of material - I guess the first thing to think of is there anything else a layperson might want to know about it which is currently missing? (i.e. comprehensiveness) Once done, then checking refs and copyedit and nominate at GAN. Anyone is welcome to jot their opinions below: Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:49, 25 December 2010 (UTC)


 * It's pretty good, not far off GA,  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  07:42, 26 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Who is going to take it to GAN? Main editors are MeegsC (90), Jimfbleak (83), Snowmanradio (57), Shyamal (52), Focus (35), Casliber (16). Meegs is the obvious nominator, I can't do it anyway because of forthcomming RL commitments that will lead to an extended wikibreak <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:58, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I would agree that the article seems not far off GA, but there may be omissions and MoS issues. I have been mainly concentrating on some MoS formatting, illustrations, and captions. I have not got the necessary books or easy library access to take it to GAN. Snowman (talk) 11:55, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It is easy to make it a multiple-nominator GA of the top four or five contributors as it is a collaboration. Can anyone see some obvious bits missing? Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:01, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Can it be nominated by unspecified collaborators and mention "WP Birds collaboration of the month" instead of users names? Snowman (talk) 22:49, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see why we wouldn't be able to do that, but it will be listed on WP:GAN as the user who added the template to the talk page, since it's updated by a bot.— focus 23:09, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Look it doesn't matter as we can easily fiddle around to add some nominators. The problem with labelling the nominator "WP Birds collaboration of the month" is it is unclear to a reviewer (I guess) who is going to respond to issues raised. It's no big deal though. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:10, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree, one nom, MeegsC if willing, if not I'd suggest Cas &mdash; although a relatively minor contributor to this article, he has bags of experience at GAN and FAC <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  07:34, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Happy to take it to GAN, but I too may be unreachable for a while in Jan-Feb. I've got 4 weeks of field work coming up, and will be in areas with unreliable internet access.  Will there be others who can help if I'm not responding? MeegsC | Talk 01:58, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Great - what I was suggesting is that a few editors are listed (actually it doesn't matter really as no-one is keeping tabs) - I'll be around to help out with issues addressed, and some other editors will chip in too I guess. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:14, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * update - I added us all - I am sure any/all of us will try to fix problems - we're all active and chipping in. Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:27, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Palestine?
In the behavior section, where it lists Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and Palestine as making up the Levant, Palestine currently links to here, which mainly describes to the historical usage of the word 'Palestine'. This definition includes Israel, and much of Syria and Lebanon, so those countries could technically be removed from the list. Otherwise, Palestine should link to Palestinian territories or State of Palestine. I wanted to check in here before changing it, because this could be inaccurate or potentially controversial. — focus 15:30, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * suggest replacing with "eastern Mediterranean" to avoid waking the Israel/Palestine zealots <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  17:45, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I noticed that the description of the Levant was removed entirely, that probably is fine. — focus 17:49, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Greeting display
Can someone add information on the greetind display where the head is thrown back. Perhaps in this http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0310.1972.tb00852.x/abstract - not accessible to me. Shyamal (talk) 10:09, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Added a note from HBW Shyamal (talk) 11:48, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Bird article improvement programme
The 7th Basic Ornithology Course, Pune run by Ela Foundation and Abasaheb Garware College of Arts and Sciences has committed to improving bird articles on occasion of the Tenth Anniversary of Wikipedia. This is an experimental venture on behalf of the course. For more details about the project see this page. The edits of the Wikipedia article on White Stork by User:AshLin on 7th January from 17:53 to 18:26 have been carried out in conjunction with the Ornithology Course.

For any observations as regards the editing of White Stork by the course, please post on this page. Other queries may be put forth here.

AshLin (talk) 15:54, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I have examined the Pande et al. reference and it does not identify the subspecies. Ali & Ripley -Handbook 2nd Ed and Rasmussen both indicate that both asiatica and nominate populations are involved with the former probably being more prominent in the past. Only two German ring recoveries are mentioned in the Handbook while Whitehead notes that he saw large flocks of up to 200 birds flying north through the Kurram Valley - which are unlikely to have been anything other than asiatica. Have made the changes accordingly. Shyamal (talk) 02:12, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Wikiprojects
Why is this bird in WikiProject Egypt? According to the map the stork doesn't even have a population there. Plus, this means that every other country WikiProject in that area should be here. Focus (talk) 15:59, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It was added by a bot in 2009. No idea what it based that on, since other species that occur in the country don't show the project banner.  You could check with someone from the project, I suppose... MeegsC | Talk 17:02, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that it is because the stork was a hieroglyph in ancient Egypt and was important to the ancient Egyptians. Perhaps this should be included in the article. I think it was written in the article. Snowman (talk) 22:36, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yup, that's there in the Cultural associations section. Focus (talk) 23:02, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
 * But is it important enough? Many cultures have associations with animals, but they are rarely important. I added to that section on storks in Slavic mythology, but despite the brief mentions of various Slavic countries I'd not add this article to those wikiprojects. I'd support removing Egypt WikiProject from that page. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:59, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I attended a lecture on Ethno-ornithology by Dr Suruchi Pande yesterday and a passing reference in the overview to the perergrine falcon and stork in Pharoanic culture were mentioned. Its obvious that storks extended to Egypt in antiquity and it formed part of their cultural symbolism. Anyway, if you want to remove a WikiProject Banner, I would recommend that you discuss it on their talk page for concurrence, as they may not realise that the banner deletion is taking place. AshLin (talk) 06:34, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I left them a note. Barring no objections, I suggest we remove this template in a week or so. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 17:37, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Article re-organization
In the review pages I suggested that this article needs to be re-organized with the sub-headings to be more in tune with other animal articles that are featured on wikipedia. The following organization was proposed and generally accepted:

* 1 Description
 * 2 Taxonomy and evolution
 * 3 Ecology
 * 3.1 Distribution
 * 3.1.1 Habitat
 * 3.1.2 Migration
 * 3.2 Behaviour
 * 3.3 Feeding
 * 3.4 Breeding
 * 3.5 Parasitology
 * 4 Conservation Status

Is someone willing to take the lead on this? If not, I can do it - but it would be nice, as the reviewer, if I maintain arms length from making any significant contributions to the article that this would entail.Thompsma (talk) 18:29, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The article is already mostly in that structure, and anything further may be too much too soon. The Ecology section is not used like that on WP:Birds, and I am not keen on the level four headings on the listing above. See WikiProject_Birds and see level three heading on "Article sections". Snowman (talk) 19:13, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Ooops...I copied the wrong list!!


 * 1. Taxonomy and evolution
 * 2. Description
 * 3. Distribution and habitat
 * 3.1 Migration
 * 4. Behaviour and ecology
 * 4.1 Breeding
 * 4.2 Food and feeding
 * 4.3 Parasites and predators
 * 5. Conservation
 * 6. Cultural associationsThompsma (talk) 19:21, 21 January 2011 (UTC)


 * What a mess that accidental wrong listing seems to be. The discussion above on sub-heading has been superseded by discussion in GA1. Snowman (talk) 20:03, 21 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes...sorry for the mistake. I wasn't sure if I should post this in both locations, because it is also of a more general nature to the structure and arrangement of the article.Thompsma (talk) 21:26, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Taxobox image
I was musing on this - unfortunately there is no clear front-runner as far as choice. I was thinking of an adult stork facing to the left (into the article) and showing the plumage clearly. I guess my preference is for the first one slightly over the third one, but not by much. It'd be good to find a better one. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:03, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I slightly prefer the third over the first. The third one has a less "busy" background - while I agree that the nest is a nice aesthetic touch, in this case it distracts the eye from the bird itself. Being taken in a zoo is perhaps a slight detriment, but I feel it's evened out by the fact that the first photo has a leg-tag on the bird - so neither one is exactly entirely "natural". As far as the second and fourth are concerned, the second suffers from being a head-on shot (images taken in profile or three-quarters are much better for identification when non-human animals are concerned) along with having a tag just like #1, negating whatever "in the wild" authenticity it may otherwise possess. The fourth is slightly out of focus, with somewhat distracting lighting (it has the "5PM on a summer evening and everything's turning yellow" look to it, along with the pretty but distracting dots of sun coming through what I assume to be gaps in the trees above) - there's really nothing offered in #4 that #3 doesn't do as good or better. #3 and #1 are top, with a sizable dropoff between those and #4, with #2 unfortunately last in my book. Badger Drink (talk) 04:01, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Number 3, I think. As Snowman pointed out (weeks ago, when it was in the article), number 1's wings may have been clipped, as the flight feathers don't appear to be full length.  The presence of the nest isn't really a "bonus", since we have multiple nice shots of the nest.  I agree with Badger Drink about numbers 2 and 4.  And I agree with Casliber that it would be great to get a good shot taken in the wild! MeegsC | Talk 14:56, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the first is a little over-exposed, and while the composition is good (and the nest is a nice touch) the ruffled feathers aren't ideal. I think my preference is very slightly for the third, with the first second. The other two aren't really there as has already been said. J Milburn (talk) 23:03, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Seems to be a definite preference for #3, so I've stuck that in. That image could do with a bit of a crop. Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:05, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that image 3 does not need cropping. Snowman (talk) 11:26, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It's borderline, but I could understand doing a bit of cropping - nothing too tight, but reducing some of the dead space on the left/right would devote maximum space to the bird when thumbnailed, and the distance between the top of the bird and top of the frame is about twice that as the bottom of the bird and the bottom of the frame. I'll give it a shot storkly- er, shortly. Badger Drink (talk) 22:07, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Cropped vs. Uncropped
As promised/threatened... notice how much more detail comes through in thumbnails, thanks to the cropping. I think a bit more can be shaved off the bottom (or a bit more left on at the top), but it'll have to wait for now. Badger Drink (talk) 22:20, 12 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the cropping is a definite net positive, especially for a taxobox image. I thought the stork got a little lost in the uncropped version. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:51, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

"Wading" bird
I removed the qualifier "wading" from the lead because it is misleading. The storks do not wade much and the term "wading bird" on Wikipedia redirects to Wader, which the stork is not. Maias (talk) 04:31, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Pre-FAC comments

 * A comment on the lead - there is a large section on "threats", almost the entire third paragraph on the lead. It seems unbalanced, the species overall is not threatened, but this is not mentioned! Yes the species has some regional declines and suffers some human mortality, but it is not "threatened".
 * I have tried rejigging it, as I agree it looked like was threatened from how it was written.. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:47, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Younger birds - wouldn't this be better merged with the overall description (which isn't long) and the bit about age moved to breeding? Sabine's Sunbird  talk  02:53, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I added material on breeding age and lifespan to the breeding section and renamed it "breeding and lifespan" - not ideal but seems to be the best place for it. Finding a good place for one or two sentences on longevity is always a problem I find... Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:28, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Biologically speaking lifespan and breeding are treated as related as they are both aspects of life-history. I'm not sure the section needed renaming though. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  04:43, 7 March 2011 (UTC)


 * There is some redundancy about historical declines in Europe, which seems to be mentioned in the lead and under both distribution and conservation.
 * I agree it'd be nice to streamline here. Material in the lead by definition appears elsewhere in more detail in the article. This leaves us with trying to streamline the distribution and conservation sections. Looking at it, I am feeling a little uncertain how to proceed with this - I am tentatively thinking that paragraph 2 in the conservation section could be moved to the first paragraph of the distribution section - this might allow for a little streamlining. Is this what you had in mind? Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Having had another look at it I think it is probably unnecessary to change anything there. Some minor, unobtrusive, redundancy may not be a bad thing as an article grows in size and takes longer to read.  I do know what you mean about para 2 in Conservation - it is about demographics rather than strictly conservation - but it could go in either place.  Two possibilities - switch the second and third paras in Conservation, and change the header to "Conservation and population" (or similar), or (as you posit) move the second to "Distribution".  Then what... put a level 2 header in the expanded "Distribution" for "Habitat"?  Or maybe just leave all as is; tweaking in one place can have seismic effects elsewhere. Maias (talk) 05:29, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe the Migration section could be upgraded to a first-level header - I know it is related to distribution but there are some quite distinct issues involved. Maias (talk) 05:38, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I can see the reasoning in that, although I do like articles to have a mix of level 1 and 2 headers. I'll bow to consensus to that as that is a pretty quick and easy fix. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:38, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Part of the reason for my suggestion was that it would also upgrade the level 3 headers (under Migration) to level 2, rather than leaving them as the only level 3 headers in the article. However, I do not think it makes a huge amount of difference either way. Maias (talk) 05:03, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Casliber asked me to drop by. The refs needs some tidying up. I've gone through the first column only, but suspect there will be similar issues with the second column that could be pre-emptively cleaned up. I'll be back with comments on the content later. Sasata (talk) 15:51, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ref #2 Holmiae = modern Stockholm
 * shoulda figgered that one... Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:06, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #3 "&c Vol-ume" ce
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:44, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * web versions of print documents, and PDFs do not need retrieval dates
 * ref #6 (Simpson et al., 1989) needs page #
 * added Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:45, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #7 needs fullstop at end
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:44, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * note how in ref #4 there's a fullstop after the middle initial of the second author before the year, but this fullstop is missing in ref #9; need to check throughout to make consistent
 * got ref 9, will keep checking. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * there's a mixture of title case and sentence case in article titles
 *  working on converting all to title case (alot of them!!) think I got 'em all... Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:53, 11 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #12 - the "b" of cytochrome b needs to be italicized
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:44, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #13 - "American Museum noviciates" cap last word & fix spelling
 * fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #14 - be consistent on whether US state is given in location; compare "Princeton, New Jersey" vs. #5 "New York"
 * I think I've added larger locators to all. Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:42, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #18 (Van den Bossche 2002) is a 200-page PDF, you'll definitely need to specify page #'s
 * 'split and done'' Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:50, 11 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #24 there's a JSTOR link you could add
 * added fulltext link instead Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:36, 11 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #27 (Berthold 2001) there's a PDF available online
 * url fulltext link added Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:47, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #28 don't need to specify fulltext, as PDF is already indicated and fulltext is therefore assumed
 * ok Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:44, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #29 isbn?; and "eds" should be indicated
 * isbn fetched Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:20, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #33 "editors" vs. "eds" or "ed" in other instances
 * all now (ed) or (eds) Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:41, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #35 (Johst 2001) doi is broken
 * fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 10:40, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #38 needs doi
 * doi added Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:23, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #43 author separated by "&", which is inconsistent with the rest. Also needs publisher.
 * got it x 2 Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:44, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #45 add a JSTOR link
 * added link to article pdf instead. MeegsC | Talk 14:34, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #47 "Alexander, R Mcneill" fullstop after the R (there's other examples of this throughout, I'll stop mentioning them now), and check to see if that should be a capital N
 * got this one - will look for others Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:22, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * refs #49-51: all of a sudden the years are given in parentheses, contrary to prior instances
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #52 italicize binomial
 * ok Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:44, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #57 double comma, remove "fulltext" & retrieval date
 * ok Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:44, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #58 add JSTOR link
 * added Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:31, 11 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ref #60 note "and" given before last author
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:04, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * refs #66, 67 need issue #; latter needs full page range
 * issues added Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:12, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 71, 73 - fullstops after initials or not?
 * got 'em. pesky little critters aren't tehy? thought I got 'em all... Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:43, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 73 page #'s
 * 74 journal name is abbreviated (unlike others)
 * unabbrev'ed Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 77 "José I. Aguirre" is not consistent with last, full initial format elsewhere
 * must have missed that one. fixed now Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:23, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 78 (fulltext)
 * removed, and accessdate removed. Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:23, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 80 provide Jstor link
 * jstor added Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:26, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 81 "neerlandica" not capitalized?
 * Can you confirm that country adjectives should be capitalised in Dutch? Library of Congress uses lc. I know some languages like French use lc for adjectives (francais, not Francais), but I don't speak dutch <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:14, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I've capped it for now on a strong hunch based on Google search and knowledge of a cognate language, German. I'll ask Ucucha when he gets back to verify. Sasata (talk) 03:32, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 82 needs issue #
 * done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:49, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 83, 84, 90, 94, 96 missing fullstop after initial
 * done - damn, my browser keeps freezing when I use cntrl-F on edit page...????? Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:23, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 85 dump retrieval date
 * gone Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:17, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 86 "V6gel" should be umlauted or something?
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:53, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 87 add year
 * done, also other Bossche refs <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  14:54, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 88 add creation date, see bottom of page for recommended citation format
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:20, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 93 don't need month in the publication date, not given in other refs
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:07, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 97 unabbreviated journal title
 * Berliner und Munchener Tierarztliche Wochenschrift <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:07, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 99 there appear to be extra spaces before the semicolons
 * fixed Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:22, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 103 two et al. means author list needs fixin'
 * appears to have been fixed


 * 110 publisher/work?
 * pub added


 * 111, 112 remove (fulltext)
 * done x 2 Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 112 remove retrieval date
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:53, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 133 where is Wheaton?
 * Done <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  10:53, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 116 mention (eds); fix double fullstop; pages?
 * got (eds), can't see double fullstop - will chase person who added ref Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:28, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 117 specify Oxford, UK (to be consistent with others)
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:28, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 119 needs title case; Manchester, UK
 * done both Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:28, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 123 not a RS
 * rereffed to a Polish Govt site, should be adequate for this simple fact <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:38, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 124 title case
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:13, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 125 author format
 * DOne <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;"> Jimfbleak - </b> talk to me?  15:42, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 126 pages ?; Warszawa=Warsaw (English name); specify Polish language (?); formatting
 * formatted, I need to chase the submitter for page refs Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:28, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 130 title case; isbn?; (ed)
 * ttile case done + isbn added Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:50, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 131 New York, New York
 * done Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:50, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * 132 title case
 * got it Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Useful source for etymology
While looking up which works of Ovid the stork appears in (I think it is here when Antigone of Troy is turned into a stork by Juno in Metamorphoses, though I failed to locate the works of Horace the stork appears in), I came across this reference which may be useful: Thomas, Richard F. 1988. Vergil's "White Bird" and the Alexandrian reference (G. 2. 319-20). Classical Philology 83(3): 214-217. . That is available online here. Also, there seems to be some sort of link with the Thracian land of Cicones, though I'm not clear what exactly. Obviously that last bit can't be taken further without a source, and may be more appropriate for the Ciconia article. Carcharoth (talk) 08:32, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Rubber band conservation
Came across this article this morning and thought I would post the information here: http://www.conservationmagazine.org/2012/02/rubber-worms/ - White storks confuse rubber bands for worms. Not a good part of their diet. This information could be entered into the conservation section.Thompsma (talk) 20:10, 7 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Wow - yes fascinating and important - reminds me of sea turtles and their mistaking of plastic bags for jellyfish....Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:02, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Succession of breeding pairs
This sentence is unclear: "A succession of pairs have been observed occupying a nest for a few days before moving on, the reason for which is unclear." In the source we can read: "The first pair occupied the nest for 5-8 days, the second pair for one day, and probably only the third pair remained at the nest to actually breed" (here).

It didn't mention that the pairs, who occupying a nest for a few days are move on the nest. Please check out this note. 193.200.82.28 (talk) 12:30, 31 January 2013 (UTC) kuba
 * I have attempted a rewrite based on a re-reading of the paper. Hope it is clearer. Shyamal (talk) 16:45, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
 * now it looks better, thanks, 193.200.82.28 (talk) 09:38, 1 February 2013 (UTC) kuba

Dead link
Spaar, Reto; Bruderer, Bruno (1996). I found similar text the same authors: "Migration by Flapping or Soaring: Flight Strategies of Marsh, Montagu's and Pallid Harriers in Southern Israel" (text here), but i can't find there information about energetic difference beetwen flapping and soaring flight. Could anyone help? D kuba (talk) 15:21, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Culture/Beliefs
"Poles, Lithuanians and Ukrainians believe that storks bring harmony to a family on whose property they nest" - cited source didn't mention the Poles and Lithuanians, only "Ukrainian and other European folk". Anybody knows other, reliable source? D kuba (talk) 21:10, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Dead link
Hi, that link: |publisher= Naturschutzbund Deutschland (NABU) is dead. It is very important source. Anyone knows other site/source for this paragraph? D kuba (talk) 23:09, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The Web Timemachine/Wayback has a copy https://web.archive.org/web/20110812085950/http://bergenhusen.nabu.de/zensus/zensus2006/worldpopulation.pdf Shyamal (talk) 10:16, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I also found full pdf: http://bergenhusen.nabu.de/imperia/md/content/bergenhusen/130618-nabu-weissstorchenzensus.pdf D kuba (talk) 14:19, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Pfeilstorch, Pfeilstörche
The German plural of "Pfeilstorch" is "Pfeilstörche"; this should be used in an English language context too. However, when I corrected it, the link to the Wiki-Article "Pfeilstorch" didn't work anymore. Maybe someone more familiar with the technical aspects of WP could correct it. --62.46.241.243 (talk) 09:39, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Despite being ungrammatical in German, it seems like English users would be happy to make it Pfeilstorchs! Have made the correction suggested though. Shyamal (talk) 13:11, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Range maps
The range map at the top doesn't seem to square with the breeding census map in the conservation area, based upon which a number of countries should be at least hash shaded in green to indicate minor breeding populations, no? Akerbeltz (talk) 17:17, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Average Lifespan Not Given
I came here to learn the average lifespan, but could not find it on the page. Maximum lifespans were given but I didn't find average/common.foobar (talk) 19:19, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Haven't been able to find it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:43, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

educational video about White Stork
Hi guys, I found a youtube channel with educational videos about birds, one of them is about White Stork, here it is - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfs3T1Nd40E Great recording, and useful facts about the bird. Maybe we can add it to wikipedia page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mark.barkan (talk • contribs) 10:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

peace symbol on first russian PostEurop 1995 stamp
in the White_stork section I think it might be nice to talk about the first Russian postage stamp for PostEurop, dated 1995, when the theme was "peace and freedom"; shows the white stork:




 * The White Stork – An International Symbol of Peace?
 * gmgreencity.com/the-white-stork/

and that on the PostEurop stamps of 2019, when the theme was "national bird", the white stork was on the postage stamps of Belarus and Ukraine:





who knows if making these things better known, through wikipedia, could also help these peoples to see again each other as friends, with the same aspirations for peace and freedom (next year, 2023, the theme of European emissions will be "PEACE - the highest value of humanity" www.posteurop.org/EUROPA%20Stamps )

--151.44.32.191 (talk) 22:06, 14 September 2022 (UTC)