Talk:Wii/Archive 14

August archive
I've created the August archive and removed any discussions not posted to in the last week. Hope I didn't cut out anything too important. --Stratadrake 12:12, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't you mean "Nintendo Wii"?
If anyone is going to ask this question, we've discussed this aspect of the article several times. See the Talk archives (pages 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11) and the "Move to Nintendo Wii" survey for all the gory details. It is just "Wii", and "Wii" alone. --Stratadrake 06:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Discussion about Wee (urine) refrence
I think it is best to discuss if there should be a reference to urine in the critisim section. Can people please share their thoughts on this issue. 67.71.78.172 06:56, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Build a Criticism section and post it here, if it is good and neutral enough, it could be inserted. Just remember not linking to urine, as it is not correct per WP:CONTEXT. -- ReyBrujo 06:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * There is one already. I remember refrences to urine were removed in the past so my goal is find out what the current consensus on the issue is. Sorry for not making that clear. To clearify I do not plan to do anything to the section until a consensus if formed. 67.71.78.172 07:06, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It is my opinion this section should be removed completely. Yeah people didnt like the name very much, but oh woopty doo.  Unless there is a solid reference stating lots of critisims that were received, not just what people observed themselves.Sir hugo 11:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I wasn't just "what people observed." There were quite a few articles within the gaming community bemoaning the choice of name. Ladlergo 17:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The urine reference was removed a long time ago, after someone who had also added a toilet (or was it urinal) as an image to this article had tried to keep it there by reverting people's removal of the reference all the time. Who added it back, and why is it still there? --Ritarri 12:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It was added back in a few days ago, people who have more time in this article edited that section around it and left it so until today I left it as well. But today I commented it out for the time being.Sir hugo 13:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If people are divided over whether to explain why it was considered an unfortunate choice of name, I suggest adding a selection of references (IGN, Gamespot, etc) that elaborate. Ladlergo 17:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but i always thught Wii sounded like a euphemism for penis, not urine... hence the "playing with your Wii" jokes. 69.19.14.38 03:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Strange association to make. Is that everyone's or just yours? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.217.44.35 (talk • contribs).
 * No, it showed up in a few articles. Slang: wee-wee. Ladlergo 13:10, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No, that's just stupid, and irrelivant. Sc7 14:28, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Potty humor about Wii is just plain stupid. Link 486 16:15, 27 August, 2006
 * If Wikipedia is going to become more respected, we have to keep stupid references like this out of articles. If you looked up the French word "oui" online or in a physical reference book, you would not find a blurb referencing bodily functions or anatomy.  For future reference, if it doesn't have anything technical to do with the article, leave it out.  Destrado Zero  16:27, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Wii as in wee means urine in just one culture so it should not be included. Like they said, most languages in the world can easily pronounce it. The US is not the only market they aim at. The article should have nothing to do with it. Wikipedia is international

This has been discussed before, consensus was to leave it out. Havok (T/C/c) 16:23, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Expected launch titles sources
The citations are all outdated, and the games remain unsourced. I think it would be better if a source was included along side each one. Oh, and are their any reliable sources for the System 3 games coming out on the Wii on launch day? 74.137.230.39 20:41, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Outdated means nothing if there are no new stories to cite. dposse 21:37, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The point being that the outdated information doesn't match the information in the article. Clearly, the editors were using other citations. And still has System 3 announced that their games was coming to Wii on launch day. Otherwise it belongs in the reported for launch. 74.137.230.39 21:52, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Reliable websites have said System 3 announced them as launch games, I can't seem to find their website(if they have one). TJ Spyke 22:37, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * An anonymous user has just claimed that none of the launch titles will have online play. There is no reference to back this up. Should it be removed? Aaron McDaid (talk - contribs) 15:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes it should be removed, right now it's nothing more than a rumor. TJ Spyke 20:40, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It can be sourced, see http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=10627 -- ReyBrujo 21:02, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * So? I can find links for almost every rumor. That doesn't mean it's true, this is still just a rumor. TJ Spyke 21:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * As long as information comes from a reliable news outlet, and is clearly marked as being a "widely-reported rumour", there shouldn't be a problem including it in this article at the moment. When information firms up - and this article ceases to have a big "It may contain unverified or unreliable information" disclaimer at the top - rumours can most likely be replaced with facts, one way or the other. But at the moment, I think they're worth including as they can be informative. Dpmarshall 21:50, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * TJ Spyke, please read verifiability and reliable source, especially we don't care if it is true or a rumour, as long as it can be sourced. -- ReyBrujo 00:30, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, and secondly it is not meant for indefinite info. Every rumor should not be on here. Lots of rumors end up in respectable news sources, but that doesn't make them true.  On the System 3,  I saw their webpage the other day so I'll try to find it again. It wasn't of much use though.  74.137.230.39 22:26, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The crystal ball clause does not apply here. The event is going to happen in two, three or four months, and we have sources for the speculation. What we are not allowed is to include our speculation. If Gamasutra, IGN or GameSpot want to speculate, we can include that information if it enhances the article. -- ReyBrujo 00:30, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Adding the following titles to the confirmed launch chart. "In fact, the publisher's Activision Value label is already preparing a pair of Wii launch titles: Rapala Tournament Fishing and World Series of Poker. --The Viper 03:19, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Call of Duty 3 Reportly Delayed Into 2007
Hey guys, I just recieved word that Call of Duty 3 has been delayed into 2007. This comes from EDGE Magazine. However, Nintendo Power will have new information on CoD 3 soon, so keep an eye on that.

Not a confirmed delay, but keep an eye out guys!

--72.134.47.212 22:02, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I've seen the same thing, i've had to revert some edits until we have official word from Activision or Nintendo. TJ Spyke 23:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I know some guys working on the title at Treyarch and if they are delaying they title, not even they know about it yet. I just asked my staff and none of them knew the source of the rumor so unfortunately I can't track it down for confirmation tomorrow.  Thanks for the heads up though.--The Viper 04:43, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Nintendo Power just confirmed it for launch. I will add it back to the list.--The Viper 13:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Dragon Ball Z Tenkaichi 2
Do not add this game to the rumored lauch list. Here is an article stating so. --DivineShadow218 15:26, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's the JAPANESE launch, the link even says they don't know how it will affect the US date, so it stays in for now. TJ Spyke 20:39, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thats ALL launches....--DivineShadow218 00:00, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Rumoured EA Launch titles
Hiere is an article stating that The Godfather, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2007, Madden NFL 2007, Need for Speed: Carbon, Harry Potter and SSX 5 are in lauch window and not at launch. 
 * Technically the launch window includes the launch, and it's almost guaranteed that Madden will be a launch game. TJ Spyke 00:06, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Technically no the launch is the day of the launch... Launch window is after launch. --DivineShadow218 00:06, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Technically YES, the launch window includes the launch date as well, so those games haven't been confirmed as NOT being launch games either. TJ Spyke 00:09, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but it's a list of confirmed launch games, not a list of games that haven't been confirmed to be not for launch. --Maxamegalon2000 00:11, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's why they are in the "Reported for launch" section and not the "Confirmed for launch" section. TJ Spyke 00:12, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No it does not...Launch is Launch... not launch window... if Launch window is launch then why not at Mario Galaxy to the list too... oh wait... we decided not to b/c it is in the launch window.--DivineShadow218 00:13, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * We don't know if Super Mario Galaxy is in the launch window, all we know is it will come out within 6 months. TJ Spyke 00:15, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * They said Launch window --DivineShadow218 00:20, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I have never seen Nintendo say "launch window" for it, link please. TJ Spyke 00:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Show me a link where launch window includes launch.--DivineShadow218 00:32, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * "Launch window" means the first 90 days(about, some companies have it shorter or longer) of the systems life. TJ Spyke 00:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Rumored leak of reggies presentation
Expect a huge edit war in the near future over this crap. remember Nintendo Go and nintendo ON?

http://alnk.org/violentcode

Zazaban 01:05, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That is so obviously fake, but yeah I think some people will try to add it in to the Wii article. TJ Spyke 01:12, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Isn't Photoshop fun? -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 01:15, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up. Too many things already prove how false it is.  An internal document would not have the consumer hotline listed as public relations. I know Reggies extension and I'm not media on the same level as IGN and if the maker of the document doesn't know any of the internal numbers, it's an obvious fake.  Sales figures are also way off. I could continue on to prove the matter but I think we can all agree it's fake and has no warrant for inclusion on the Wii page.--The Viper 04:20, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, it's referred to as "Nintendo Wii" rather than just "Wii" :) Not to mention the contradiction when "he" talks about the Blue Ocean strategy - not lashing out at competitors - and then "he" starts lashing out in the very next paragraph. Ritarri 13:28, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

MiB vs. MB for the flash memory
Which is more appropriate? I know that Nintendo uses MB, but Sony and Microsoft were overriden in the Xbox 360 / PS3 articles because MiB is technically more correct. That was in reference to system RAM though, which is definately measured in MiB. But what about this flash memory? I think it's possibly properly measured in MiB, but I have no real solid knowledge. It's also good to note that we don't know exactly what type of flash memory is being used; I have no idea if the standard for measurement changes between varieties. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 07:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, I mostly bring this up because an anony has tried changing it twice. It deserves talkin' about rather than just repeatedly reverting it. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 07:31, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * This comes from wii.nintendo.com(Nintenod's official website for the Wii): The Specs: Wii boasts 512 megabytes of internal flash memory, TJ Spyke 07:38, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes but, as I said, Microsoft and Sony use megabytes instead of mebibytes too. Their usage of that unit is incorrect though, so they're overriden in the appropriate articles. The Manual of Style has a section on binary prefixes, and encourages using MiB/etc. where correct. Basically, MB should techically refer to a decimal unit (1000 KB), whereas MiB is binary (1024 KiB). System memory uses MiB (even if it refers to it as MB), hard drives and DVDs use MB. Personally, I'd rather leave it as MB as I don't know which way this type of media goes, but that's why I asked the question here. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 07:50, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The distinction between MB and MiB is a recent invention (dating only to 1998), and is not widely used in industry (indeed, derided by many as a sop to hard disk manufacturers who were only aiming to deceive) despite the strong support of IEC, IEEE, NIST, etc. However, as Wikipedia has a great need to disambiguate, and has a reliable rule on how it should be communicated, I believe "industry's numbers" should be translated into the unambiguous terminology when reported in an article. As previous posters suspected, yes, flash (as with main memory) is all power-of-two based. So, it's fine as it is, but would be equally correct as MiB. Dpmarshall 10:40, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I for one HATE MiB. MB refers to Megabyte which is properly 1024 kB it is only because some people use the 10^6 bytes version of this that MiB had to be established for the non computer people to deciver what it really means.  When I see MB I assume 2^20 unless it is in marketing material (HD space, flash drive size, etc.).  This is the reason why when you buy a 200GB HD your OS reports it as being smaller the manufactuer is using 10^6 vs the 2^20 where the OS uses the proper conversion.  RAM though is different it is marketed as being exactly what it is.  I would say then that in the case of flash memory any numbers put out will be in 10^6 not 2^20 to make the flash drive seem larger then it atually is.Sir hugo 13:21, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Because flash drive manufacturers tend also to be memory manufacturers, they appear to be keeping it honest. Also the nature of flash memory addressing means it *has* to be power-of-two based really. The snag comes when you put a filesystem on a flash drive - and lose a whole chunk of available space there and then. Flash drives tend to be marketed as 512meg, 1gig, etc. and will have a real unformatted capacity of 536,870,912 bytes, 1,073,741,824 bytes, etc. The only time to be skeptical is if you see someone claiming a flash drive capacity that isn't a power of two (or a clean multiple of one) - then they're most likely trying the same trick as HD manufacturers. 536meg flash drive, anyone? Dpmarshall 13:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't you notice those little disclaimers on hard drive boxes and hard drive MP3 players and such that say, specifically, that they're using a power of 10 instead of 2? I realize that this would be fine either as MB or MiB because of the ambiguity, but the Manual of Style does now say that MiB should be used in all cases where it's a binary (^2) unit. The Wikipedia tries to keep things as standard as possible across articles. -- Consumed Crustacean | Talk | 01:51, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Then use MiB for this article if that is policy. By the way, I have actually only ever bought one hard drive that didnt come with my computer and I bought that off the net so I didnt pay attention to the box as I already knew about this marketing scheme.Sir hugo 13:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Sensor Bar
There is some new information on the sensor bar from the Leipzig Games Convention (from a German article on Heise-Newsticker: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/77260 ). The sensor bar is approximately 30cm long (instead of the 20cm mentioned in the article), and contains 8 IR (infrared) LEDs that are used by the controller to guage direction and distance to the display. This is easily visible on a digital camera picture. This also means that the controller needs line-of-sight to the sensor bar to use the pointer-functionality. Now, I was unsure on how add this information to the article as I couldn't figure out how to source the article.... :) &#91;maven] 09:34, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The information isn't actually new. I believe 30cm was length was the length previously used, before IGN published their "Unlocking the Secrets" article ( http://wii.ign.com/articles/718/718946p1.html ), which stated 20cm. The presence of 8 IR LEDs is also not new, dating back to E3 ( http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3386246&postcount=69 ). I believe this was also noted in the article once, but the IGN article stated that the sensor bar featured two sensors on each end. I have my opinions on what information can be trusted by whom, but there are disagreements. Dancter 14:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

LOZ release date hint?
Someone want to check out this website: |sears wishlist Google snapshot This page has since expired. Since the Google snapshot data claims that the picture was taken in July '06, the 2005 date is presumably wrong. So, possibility of a slight 5-6 typo.

However, this does not really add any significant information; all the dates on this wiki page are before the 14th anyways. However, this acknowledges the fact that LOZ, and therefore the Wii, will be available before November 14. - oobugtalk/contrib 23:18, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * This is confirmation of nothing. All major online retailers use 'placeholder' dates.  Go to EB online, Best Buy and others and you'll get varying release dates.  It's a public relations move as it looks better to have a fake date that can be changed instead of listing it as TBA/TBD or having no date at all.--The Viper 23:54, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The original release date was in November 2005, and I think it was the 14th, so it's quite possible that this is simply a very old page that was only removed recently. I think it's the July '06 date that's misleading. Karaken12 13:14, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Smash Bros
It was mentioned that Smash Bros Brawl has been announced by nintendo as being a first party game. I am wondering about that because I have not heard anything about that and the Smash Bros Brawl page lists the developer as unknown and does not state anything to that effect. It seems odd that this page would have this info and the page for the game would not. Can someone please post a link showing where they got this info from. --Edgelord 02:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Its status is disputed. This page just hasn't been updated to reflect that. Jaxad0127 02:53, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I made the change. My sources are as follows. http://cube.ign.com/articles/673/673312p1.html  http://wii.ign.com/objects/748/748545.html  http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/news.html?sid=6140706  http://videogames.yahoo.com/newsarticle?eid=462446&page=0  http://wii.advancedmn.com/game.php?gameid=1468  http://games.ign.com/objects/025/025047.html  http://wii.qj.net/Super-Mario-Galaxy-Team-Announced/pg/49/aid/38177  Or how about right here on Wiki, HAL_Laboratory  --The Viper 03:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the dispute was that we don't know if HAL is the developer for SSBB since Sakurai formed a new team for it and Sakurai is at Sora now and not HAL. TJ Spyke 03:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sakurai is head of a new EAD team at EAD Tokyo. Hal is not developeing this title.  I can contact them later for direct proof if need be but I don't know how official that would still be unless I posted it on my site and that's not really news worthy in itself (which is probably why it's tough to validate).--The Viper 03:34, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I also believe that would not be acceptable under WP:OR. --My old username 00:39, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The official site says it's part of a new Nintendo-owned studio. Right now it's called "The Studio" until they can think of a better name. --141.117.176.198 14:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Tecmo games on Virtual Console rumour
Apparently, Tecmo classics may appear in the Virtual Console ( http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2006/08/29/tecmo-games-to-appear-on-virtual-console/ ). This is by no means confirmed. I tried reading the briefing (found here ) but it is too technical for my level. Just pointing out in case someone with a better japanese understanding can find any hint in the company's documentation. -- ReyBrujo 02:19, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Not a rumor.  --The Viper 03:19, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Added my blog
Hello everyone. I really felt that I should add my blog, since the article also links to The Wiire. I am a German television news editor and often have insider info on all things Wii which I share on my blog. My page impressions (well above a million clicks since June 2005) do show that it is one of the most popular and reputable sites for Wii information. So I believe that noone will object if I add it to the list. I am confident that my blog is easily as good a resource as The Wiire (who I respect, of course). Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.208.208.15 (talk • contribs).


 * Hello! In Wikipedia we look for consensus. In other words, in this article before adding an external link, it is discussed to see if the link should or should not be added to the article. I suggest waiting for others to say what they think about it before adding it. Thanks. -- ReyBrujo 12:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. Sorry for adding the link too soon. I have received a message from someone saying my link had to be removed because private blogs are not allowed as external links. I do have to insist, though, that my site is as professional as The Wiire and Cubed 3, if not more so. I am a professional games journalist working for German tv and use the site as an outlet for the insider information I gather. The Wiire and Cubed 3 are no more professional in the sense that they do not earn any money with their site (not much anyway). So I would ask you all to have a look at my site again, please and either add it to the list or remove the other two sites as well. Sorry to insist, thanks for your time.
 * Insist all you like. Although that's not typically the best way to accomplish things. Nandesuka 13:06, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your answer. Just to clarify: I don´t mean to kick up a fuss. I am just kindly asking you all to consider adding my site. Because what is the difference between it and Cubed 3? Is it the fact that mine is hosted by Blogger.com and uses their templates? That is the only difference I see. In terms of professionality, I do have to point out that I have been to every E3 since 2000, interviewed Miyamoto and Iwata numerous times and just got back from the Games Convention in Leipzig. I also played Red Steel in early April (just after Game Informer and well before IGN even got to see the game) and will be attending the NOE event on the 15th, so I really do see myself on one level with sites like Wiire or Cubed3. Please just have a look at my site and judge for yourself. It really is a professional site, since I am an industry professional. Thanks for your attention.
 * We have had these kinds of discussions before, in example, Talk:Wii/archive10. Your link will be proposed, and we will see what others editors think. Note that we are deliberately trying to keep as few non official links as possible per External links suggestions. -- ReyBrujo 13:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks. Sorry if I´m not familiar with the usual protocol. I have never edited anything on Wikipedia before. So, again, sorry for simply adding my link and thanks for considering my site. If anyone would like me to provide any kind of credentials (press card, testimonials by Nintendo or the like) just drop me a line at andreas.garbe@rtl.de, which is my work mail.

Now that the administration stuff is out of the way. What does everyone think about this site, keeping in mind the following: Is the information covered in our other links? Is the information sourced to reliable sources or is it just heresay? Is the writer verifiable to be who he says he is? Etc. Sir hugo 16:17, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you nailed one of the biggest reasons why it should not be included; redundancy. A majority news of the information contained in your blog can already be found at the other sites already listed.  I also noted many times you use the first person perspective as in writing an editorial or rebuttal (I did note the mass of commentary pieces) instead of news.  It would seem that the problem is a combination of redundant information already offered in the other links and format.  Just for the record, we get over 1.5 million monthly page views as well and I don't even consider our site (we're in your list for Nintendo News sites of which we appreciate) for inclusion based on the fact that what we report is mostly already getting reported at the big sites (IGN/Gamespot) and they get far more exclusive news than anyone.--The Viper 17:07, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments, but I really don´t think you´re being fair. Almost none of my posts are commentaries only. 99% are exclusives, news or rumours. I always separate commentary from factual information (which hardly any other sites does). Also, out of my last ten posts, six were based on exclusive information (conservatively speaking). That is more than half. I hardly think that can be called redundancy. I hope I can get you to reconsider your opinion.
 * I thank you for your attempts to help improve wikipedia, however you may not add your own blog due to Wp:or. Also, I would ask that you refrain from advocating the inclusion of your blog as it compromises WP:NPOV. Thank you for your contributions to wikipedia, and I hope that you continue to contribute constructively in the future. Altair 19:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for linking to those rules. As I said, I am not too familiar with Wikipedia and the rules governing it. However, allow me to point out that I am not in any way conducting original research. I call people up or interview them and quote them on my page. So although a lot of this stuff is exclusive, I always cite tangible sources. And also, I am a professional journalist. So my work necessitates that I write without bias. If I did exhibit any kind of preference for Nintendo products, my contacts at Sony or Microsoft would not like it one single bit. I understand you don´t want a link list that is a mile long, but I think - and please don´t misunderstand me, I´m only trying to point this out from a user´s perspective - you are also being a little too bureaucratic about including links. Anyway, being linked here is really not that important to me. There are other sites - like Codenamerevolution.com or GoNintendo.com - that should be linked to rather than my site.

Size of list of games
Hi. I'm visiting here from WikiProject Laundromat, a project to reduce the number of laundry lists in articles that are hurt by them. The list of third party games looks a bit unbalanced to me -- it's large, and likely to grow larger. I'd like to help develop a consensus as to what size this list shoudl be capped off at. Since there's already a link there to List of Wii games, it seems to me that 8 titles would be plenty; that would put it in balance with the first party titles, which is visually pleasing, and would reduce the temptation for everyone in the world to add "just one more title!" because their favorite game isn't listed. What do people think? Nandesuka 12:46, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * An arbitrary number of list titles wouldn't eliminate the "just one more title" syndrome. Since there is already a list of expected launch titles and a seperate list of Wii games, why not just cut the whole section? ˉˉanetode╦╩ 12:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think a small "Examples" section is needed with a link to the main list. These should include the top X games from each category based on discussion on the talk page.  Yes it wont eliminate the tendancy of people adding one more but we would have justification to revert it till it was discussed.Sir hugo 16:20, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with this. Only listing the major game(s) in each category would keep the list small and give a good representation of the types of games the console will have. Jaxad0127 18:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Every console will have roughly the same games: there'll be RPGs, Sports games, platformers, FPS'ers, etc. A small list would by no means be comprehensive, but it would definitely be subjective and prescribe to someone's POV. On the other hand, anyone can get a great idea of the games available for the Wii by checking out the list of Wii games. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 23:39, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with Sir hugo on this, that there should be a list but should not exceed notable titles. Do we have to vote on the list and what games get added?--DivineShadow218 05:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh God, I hope not. --Maxamegalon2000 05:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * How are these titles "notable"? Sales data would be one neutral gauge, but hey, no Wii titles have even shipped yet! People will simply make a list of personal faves and argue and revert each contested title. Please comment on why there is a need for a duplicate of list of Wii games, or at least define what makes these not-yet-released titles so "notable". ˉˉanetode╦╩ 11:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I am not saying all of the titles are notable, I would definitely remove some of them from the list. But games that are part of a notable franchise, which in fact the list was of and not of notable games, should just be added to the list. When you think of Nintendo you think Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Metroid, Supper Smash Bros. and so on. When you think Football you think Madden. When you think survival horror you think Resident evil. These are all notable franchises and should be kept (or brought back to form a list) in the list. And I do not mind at all the notable new titles that was above the list section. I do admit that the 3rd party list was getting quite long but, in my eyes, that is no reason to delete the whole section. I say bring the section of NOTABLE FRANCISES back.--DivineShadow218 02:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I invite people working on this article to have a look at Talk:Xbox 360, where a similar matter is being discussed. Since it may be possible to apply the solution achieved by consensus there to any console article, it would be interesting if you could voice your opinion as well. Thanks. -- ReyBrujo 02:55, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I do like that Idea, but it would have to be modified to fit the problems that we have with the list. Since we are doing franchises and linking it to the game for the wii, that has to be implemented into it. --DivineShadow218 17:42, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * You could add franchises to the Xbox 360 poll, explain your side, and get the time extended. -- ReyBrujo 18:32, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

First vs Second Party of Super Smash Bros.
Since there is a budding revert war going on I wanted to start a discussion on whether this is a first or second party title. It seems to me that the source given shows it is/was being developed by a division of Nintendo therefore it is a first party title.Sir hugo 18:39, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it's second party. The previous two titles were second party, and the debate about who is making it on the Brawl page was between HAL and Sora.Tuesday42 18:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it was when I wrote that.Tuesday42 15:38, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Second party, see the discussion on the brawl page. Someone found a source that clearly states that it is a second party title. Altair 19:10, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I checked that page, it even says that Nintendo is creating the game with this passage. " It turned out that Nintendo would build a new team around me in Tokyo. In other words, we would create a new studio."
 * This corroborates the story from IGN that says the game is being developed in Tokyo at a new Nintendo studio. --The Viper 22:07, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Why are we even bothering with who's developing the titles? The section is for franchises. Just go by whoever controls the franchise, which in this case would be Nintendo. Just put it under first-party. Dancter 22:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Common sense would agree with you, and I support you. Someone will just revert it though, but I won't. TJ Spyke 08:53, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * If we dont bother with the developers then why have first, second, and third party subsections at all. The reason why we have them is so it more informative. and to quote the source text to prove it should be in the second party title section are, 'Nintendo has enlisted outside help for the development' and 'Development on Smash Bros. Revolution won't be taking place at Nintendo's Kyoto headquarters.'--DivineShadow218 15:14, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Just becuase its not at their headquarters doesn't mean its not first party. If you take a look at this page (the story behind the making of the game, on the official site) in the third bold area, it says "Nintendo would build a new team around me in Tokyo." Nintendo setup the team making the game. And if you read the next line, it says in a new studio. This is a first party game. Jaxad0127 18:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Divine, I don't think anybody refers to a game as second party. That would be like saying the Project Gotham Racing games aren't first party because they are developed by Bizarre Creations(which is not owned by Microsoft) or that the SOCOM games were second party because they were developed by Zipper Interactive. TJ Spyke 19:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * See Second-party_developer If the developer is not the company that is publishing, then it can be refered to as second party. Altair 20:16, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I meant games aren't referred to as second party. Nobody called SOCOM a second party game because it was developed by a second party developer(although the developer has since been bought by Sony). Just like Star Fox Assault would be called a first party game even though Namco developed it. I say we get rid of the "Second Party games" section since I have never heard anybody call a game a "second party game".
 * That is exactly what a second party game is. --DivineShadow218 04:53, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * There is no such thing as a second party game. Nintendo 100% owns both the Nintendo/Battalion Wars and Super Smash Bros franchises, making them first party games. TJ Spyke 05:22, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

MrVoluntarist's spiel: I've always had trouble with the gaming use of the term "second party". By the usual convention, a company (first party) sells to a customer (second party) and a third party, who is neither of these, may be involved somehow -- as arbitrator, insurer, or, in this case, accessory seller. "Second party" for me thus connotes the gamer, who buys the Nintendo product. A "second party game" would imply a fan-made game. But whatever. MrVoluntarist 03:26, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Just because Nintendo owns the franchise it doesn't mean it's not a game made by a Second Party Developer. Some of you are confusing what a video game developer status is with what a Nintendo franchise is. My example will be Rare, Rare is a second-party devloper, they've made games for multiple consoles but a majority of their shares was bought out by Nintendo to produce games for them primarily. So Nintendo gave Rare the Donkey Kong franchise, which is a Nintendo Franchise, and Rare made notable Donkey Kong games during their contract with Nintendo. Now when Nintendo put Rare up for sale, a 'lil company called Microsoft (sarcasm) came along and purchased the rights for the company and their licensed franchises, hence making Rare a Second-Party Developer for Microsoft. The Nintendo franchise Donkey Kong stays with Nintendo, but franchises like Perfect Dark and Banjo-Kazooie was licensed to Rare so it goes to Microsoft now. This is all a big game of licenses and ownership, you should look at a Second-Party Developer as a company on the side that developes games primarily for their majority share owner, but has the option to create a larger portfolio for other companies. They also need the a owner to help fund their projects. Even though Microsoft owns the majority of shares on Rare, Rare still produces games on the GBA and Nintendo DS. Ok but back to the matter at hand, is Super Smash Bros. Brawl a First or Second Party developed game? Well Hal Laoratory has so far developed both Smash Bros. games. Hal Laboratory is a Second Party Developer, but was given the rights to produce the game by Nintendo. They were there to help Nintendo like a Second Party Developer should, so if it is released that Hal Laboratory is developing this game we will have our answer. Hope this helped some of you, the term Second Party Developer has been around a long time I think now that some of you are getting interested in editing for Wikipedia it now is being introduced to you for the first time. If I missed something or didn't explain something properly please say so and I'll try this again. --LinkBoz84 23:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Rare is a first party developer for Microsoft since MS 100% owns them. Microsoft allows them to develop GBA and DS games because MS doesn't consider the handhelds competition to them. TJ Spyke 23:33, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the entire concept of "second party developer" is slightly esoteric, and only of interest to hardcore gamers. From the perspective of a reader of a general-purpose encyclopedia, I think it's an unnecessarily confusing element, and can (and should) be safely omitted. Nandesuka 23:18, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah, TJ Spyke is correct my apologies, take what I said about the franchises and hold it to heart but disregard Rare being a Second-Party Developer anymore, I completely forgot about the Stamper Brothers. --LinkBoz84 23:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

SSBB is a first party title. Nintendo EAD Tokyo has created a new team around former Hal Laboratory employee and Smash Brothers series creator Sakurai. For more proof, check these,, , , , , , and Wiki as well, HAL_Laboratory and the Spanish version of the Smash Brothers page http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Brawl  Look at the story from series creator Sakurai, the articles, the game info boxes at IGN and Gamespot, Wiki itself....what else do we need before it is accepted as a first party Wii title?--The Viper 00:51, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok while I was trying to explain what constitutes a Second Party Developer, the Viper has proof right here showing that Nintendo created this and not Hal Laboratories. Looks like First Party Developer to me. Just curious who exactly are we waiting for to make the final decision on this matter? Is there going to be a poll here soon? --LinkBoz84 01:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Vote
Is SSBB First or Second? Sir hugo 13:35, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

First Read Viper's links, Nintendo is forming a new studio under their full control.Sir hugo 13:35, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Second Quote from Smashbros.com (the OFFICAIL site) The topics that have come up from time to time in column-me going into solitary to write the design document, founding my own company, Sora Ltd., moving, and getting sick from overworking were all related to my development of the new Smash Bros. game. Yes I admit that workers from HAL Laboratories are working on this game but for Sora Ltd. which is a company not owned by Nintendo.--DivineShadow218 17:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

First This is also from SmashBros.com, "It turned out that Nintendo would build a new team around me in Tokyo. In other words, we would create a new studio." Read the entire article please.--The Viper 18:04, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Irrelevant. Until the debate over games lists in console articles is settled, this doesn't even matter. This debate belongs on the SSBB talk page, anyway. Move it there, and add a link to it here. Even if it is agreed that a games list should be re-added to this article, if it's going to be called a "Popular franchises" list like it was before, it is misleading to organize the list items like individual games. As a franchise, Super Smash Bros. is best considered first-party. Yes, the items link to individual games, but they're still franchise listings. Dancter 18:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Based on this, since it is actually the best idea I am closing this vote. If someone from the SSBB community wants to move this vote over there feel free but otherwise lets forget about it here.Sir hugo 18:34, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Bump mapping.
Has "bump mapping" as a graphical technique for the Wii actually been confirmed yet? If not, it appears that Isuse 8 of the British Official Nintendo Magazine may have done so: on page 40, during a preview of Battalion Wars 2, under a picture of a tank a caption stated that "The bump-mapped vehicles looked terrific". --Zooba 12:28, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

The Gamecube supported bump mapping: Therefore it was already a given that the Wii supports it as well. Awk 20:42, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Read any review for Star Fox Adventures and the reviewer will most likely marvel at the brilliant use of bump mapping (and complain about how rigid the game is also) JayKeaton 11:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Every GPU after NV2x does NOT support bump mapping "by itself", it supports a more general shader architecture which can also be used to do bump mapping. You will never see a GPU or a console sporting 'bumpmapping support' but rather a much greater functionality superset like "Shader model 3.0" for example. In this specific case, I would expect at least at least an X1800 based chip with toned down pixel pipes to handle the less demanding resolution. Information on Hollywood seems to be rather scarce so take this as a personal opinion.

 MaxDZ8 talk  08:39, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Wii page has most interest
The Wii page has over 10,000 revisions, making it the highest ranking (ranked 11) revision game related page, compared to the next highest game related page, PS3, which has under 9,000 revisions and only ranks number 19. Obviously this can't be put in the article, but I thought it was very interesting JayKeaton 10:25, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Not surprising to me given the immense amount of slashdot hype that has been going on. Anyway, I've always thought that the article looks really good - kudos to the editors. RN 11:42, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Ha ha, Wii is more popular than Canada... well not really, but "Wii've" got 7 more revisions. Sadly it seems like a lot of that comes from people being overly excited and using unreliable sources, then having it reverted back... ah well, in a month or two there will probably be half as many revisions per day, when the real deal is out. --Twile 15:17, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I also think that initial negative reactions to the name and people making urine references were also largely responsible. There were also edit wars over whether to use Wii or Nintendo Wii. It was so bad at one point the title had be protected from being moved for about a week. --My old username 03:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * As they say, no news is bad news, but it makes perfecte sense, tell people a really out there name like 7 months before it's release, it gives people time to obsess about it, talk about it with their friends, get everyone talking about Wii, and also enough time for it to grow in people. Nintendo haven't done anything that smart since the snes. Assuming they meant to do it of course ;) JayKeaton 10:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Slightly pedantic issue: 3 Ubisoft titles were known about all along
Hi everyone. Sorry to be a little pedantic, but the following is an error nonetheless (though almost everyone got this wrong). Under the heading Developer support the current article reads: "Ubisoft has upped their number of titles in development for Wii to 8 (7 of which are to be launch games and only 2 of which were previously known about)." This is wrong. Nintendo´s press server (, registration required) offers a list of Wii games, published on May 9th, which clearly states that Ubisoft was developing three games: Open Season, Rayman Raving Rabbids and RED STEEL. If you do not have access to that server, there is a copy of that list on my blog, here:. The article should be changed to: "... and only 3 of which were previously known about." Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Falafelkid (talk • contribs) 10:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for catching that. I've made the change. I left you a message with some links to help you out as a new registered user. Again, welcome! Dancter 13:19, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If you fnd other errors like that, just fix them and add a link for verification (not your own site as that's against the Wiki TOS though the press page from Nintendo will do).--The Viper 14:31, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Take it easy on the new kid. The user very well may have gone right ahead and fixed it directly, if the article wasn't semi-protected. And I think the reason they offered their blog was because the article is on the NOA press site is not currently accessible to the public. Dancter 17:23, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Madden 07 Wii not developed by Tiburon
It's developed by EA Canada. Source (IGN) --66.138.57.136 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Changed, thank you. - E  meZxX  12:40, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Straw poll - Games/Franchise list
This straw poll is to flesh out some consensus on the debate over whether to include a list of games (or what kind of list to include) for the console. See Talk:Xbox_360 for concurrent discussion and further examples.

Please sign your name using four tildes ( ~ ) under the position you support, preferably adding a brief comment. If you are happy with more than one possibility, you may wish to sign your names to more than one place. Extended commentary should be placed below, in the section marked "Discussion", though brief commentary can be interspersed.


 * Include list of "some popular games"


 * Include list of "some popular franchises" as before the list was removed
 * DivineShadow218 19:49, 5 September 2006 (UTC) I would like to see this but with the 3rd party shaved down a lot. We only need a handful of popular franchises that would link to the game stated for release on the Wii


 * Drop list, use link to full list and short paragraph
 * The Viper 20:00, 5 September 2006 (UTC)Probably the best option of all 3.
 * This would improve the readability of the article substantially. Nandesuka 20:10, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Ladlergo 20:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC) I like this option the best. Doesn't take up too much space, limits amount of bias (ex: top three selling/reviewed franchises to lessen fanboy edit warring), links to most important list.
 * ˉˉanetode╦╩ 21:08, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Seeing as how there is already a List of Wii games, it would be redundant to include one in the article as well. All that's needed is the list of launch titles, which will probably dissappear once the system and games come out.  -SaturnYoshi 21:36, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
''Discussion resulting from the survey would go here. If there were a significant amount, it might be moved to a talk page instead.''


 * Include list of "some popular games"
 * The Viper 20:00, 5 September 2006 (UTC)Some titles that have not yet been made into a long running franchise would get left out if it were franchise only.


 * Include list of "some popular franchises" as before the list was removed
 * The Viper 20:00, 5 September 2006 (UTC)If the title is part of a franchise, make it noted as such. If it is not, just list the single games title. Ex:
 * The legend of Zelda series
 * Red Steel
 * Thats why we also had notable new titles. --DivineShadow218 21:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Drop list, use link to full list and short paragraph
 * the full list is obviously much bigger and less informative. The paragraph might turn out to be a huge run on sentance of uncatagorized games. --DivineShadow218 03:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

"Name" section
Just a quick thought, shouldn't this be somewhere near the top instead of stuffed away at the bottom? DevAnubis 10:57, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

tidy?
Too many references, release date and price section messy, too long. Far too many simple terms linked in blue.????

Protection
Why is this article still protected? Can we remove the protection?Sir hugo 20:14, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * A) Because this target is rather popular (top 10 on the whole WP I believe) and sometimes a target for vandalism and other unvarafied info from anons. B) Yes - it may have died down now; there's really no sure way to find out unless you try it. RN 20:28, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, it is in 12th place. It was in 11th but Canada overtook it. --My old username 20:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Wii unconfirmed launch date
well, i was looking online and found this nice little web site: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060725-7349.html and basically, it says that the games for all sorts of nintendo systems, such as gamecube and ds, are comming out in intervals of one week, starting october 27th. then, if you work your way back one week at a time, you get to october second as being the day without a launch. now, it could be november 27th, but thats black friday. or mabey the 20th. no, thats the ps3's launch. wich only leaves october second. call me crazy, but ill have my money and tent ready for a camp out!72.58.29.218 21:39, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Ugh, October 2 is a TUESDAY, Nintendo usually launches their systems on SUNDAYS. That damn joke Nintendo sent out is causing so much annoyance because people assume they are launching the Wii on that date. TJ Spyke 21:42, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think we can assume anything about launch day if they're aiming for a simultaneous or near-simultaneous launch day. It's Fridays in the UK, Sundays in the US, etc. Absolutely anything could happen this time round. Dpmarshall 22:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not coming out on the same day though, all we know is they plan on releasing it worldwide within a 14 week period. That means one region could get it 2 months after another. I just don't like people assuming October 2nd is the release date because of a JOKE from Nintendo. TJ Spyke 22:33, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * We don't know for sure that they're not aiming for a near-simultaneous launch in North America, US and Japan. Given the relatively limited possible launch window, it's not that unlikely. However, my main point was that just because Nintendo's past consoles have launched on a Sunday in the US, it doesn't mean that's logistically advisable or possible this time around. Dpmarshall 22:43, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

1T-SRAM GPU memory only?
I read the MoSys press release [34] and noticed an interesting thing: "The newest 1T-SRAM implementations embedded within the Wii console are fabricated using NEC Electronics' advanced 90nm CMOS-compatible embedded DRAM process technology. These high speed and ultra low latency memories are used as the main embedded memory on the graphics chip and in an additional external memory chip."

1. additional extra memory - CPU memory? (as stated on here on Wikipedia) But "Available in densities up to 600Mbits" => 75 MB If this is CPU memory it is very small... (It could be some kind of programmable cashe, if so it will be integrated with the CPU it fits an a reasonably sized ASIC). My guess is that this really is GPU memory.

Update: found this pressrelease from NEC So it is not 1T that makes this extra memory - it can be a lot bigger than their largest...

2. It is surely used as GPU memory "... 1T-SRAM technology to implement the very high performance memory within the Wii console's graphics system."

RogerJL 21:47, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * and the t1-SRAM on the GPU is the onboard buffer, same as flipper had. to the best of my knowledge there will be a main Wii ram consisting of T1-SRAM, as with GameCube, and then probably a further DRAM segment (again as with gamecube). It's interesting to know that the capacity of one chip is limited to 75Mb, and that Wii may possibly only be using one of those chips, but still it is not entirely relevant to the article as it is unconfirmed by Nintendo. DevAnubis 12:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Failure?
Sorry Sir hugo for not knowing how to use the "Discussion" part of Wiki until 2 seconds ago....

Guys, I'm trying to add a section onto the Wii page to highlight that it will be using the Friend Codes and other features that could kill the system. There was an article about this stuff that made a little internet hit a month ago but seems to have been forgotten about. So, by adding its information to Wiki, I'm hoping to alert folks (Nintendo) that we (the public) know they have some potentially dire problems coming.

Here's the info, which I originally had as a section between "Name" and "See Also" on the page:

An article on Gaming Nexus --the citation when on the main article links to http://www.gamingnexus.com/Default.aspx?Section=Article&I=1150 --posits the five reasons the Wii could fail:


 * Innovation: Small probability of disaster
 * Virtual Console: Medium probability of disaster
 * Third-party support: Small probability of disaster
 * Nintendo Wifi Connection: High probability of disaster, especially caused by Nintendo's "stifling" and "suffocating" Friend Codes system, in comparison to standard game-search browsers such as Gamespy and Battle.net.
 * Marketing: High probability of disaster

What is the best way to incorporate this info onto the article? I had it on in complete form, which Sir hugo correctly removed for being point of view, so I added it to See Also, which he did likewise. Suggestions?

with late added timestamp of Keithustus 16:50, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It's all point of view and no facts. It really doesn't belong on Wiki to be honest.--The Viper 16:45, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * there is no point to add it b/c it is personal speculation and only your point of view.--DivineShadow218 16:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Again, sign your comments with tides !! and I agree, it is opinion, not encyclopedia material. And it hasn't been confirmed HOW the friend coded will operate. They may be unique to each Wii-mote, instead of games. And we're not certain you won't be able to play other (non-friends) in games. DevAnubis 16:50, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Fact 1: Wii will use same Friend Code system as NDS.  Fact 2: Friend Code system does not allow user search or game search as we are used to doing on any PC, PS2, XBL game.  Fact 3: Game search limitations degrade the online experience.  Inference: Wii will not enable traditional online game searching, and be as restrictive as NDS.  Conclusion: Wii will be a restrictive and degraded online experience. Keithustus 16:55, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Read of the suckiness at http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/wii/e306-wii-wifi-to-use-those-stupid-ing-friend-codes-173327.php Keithustus 16:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Two things, 1. We don't add personal opinion and point of view. Though it may suck, we cannot say it sucks.  2. That's only part of the story.  Considering the interface is up to developers, it can still be very detailed and with the possible user profiles, Wii Messaging system and more, the interaction won't be as stifled as the DS.  Relax.  This isn't the place to discuss news and considering what that article focuses on is nothing but a reaction or point of view, it has no place here.--The Viper 17:04, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Obviouslyt, no variations on the word "suck" should ever appear in an encyclopedia entry. I'm not trying to point out that the Friend Code system sucks (which everyone knows).  So far, NO reference on the Wii entry refers to Friend Codes, even though at least one Nintendo developer said in May that the Wii would use them in the same way as on the NDS.  This information needs to spread...with hopes with backlack for improvement.  True, there might be Wii Messaging and all sorts of other mumbo-jumbo, but so long as we know that the only way to find games online is either by knowing someone's friend code or random pairing, I'm not really looking forward to the online portion of gameplaying the Wii, and I doubt many others would either.Keithustus 17:13, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I think perhaps you should consider your motives regarding this inclusion, and whether they are compatible with Wikipedia's encyclopedic goal. You say that you are "hoping to alert folks (Nintendo) that we (the public) know they have some potentially dire problems coming" and that "This information needs to spread...with hopes with backlack for improvement."  This sounds to me like your goal is to effect change rather than to create an encylopedia entry.  Wikipedia articles don't try to change the world; they try to provide neutral and encyclopedic information. --Maxamegalon2000 17:18, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * And Fox News is fair and balanced. Look, true, I want the information to spread that from what we know, from what has been in interviews and leaked (also see http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/TheFeed/post/618959/Secret_Wii_Details_Revealed.html ), the Wii will have the same crippling matchmaking service as the DS.  Does my wanting people to know that mean that it shouldn't be in Wiki?  The information, regardless of how I would prefer people to react to it--it's not MY information after all--is irrelevant to its accuracy.  To fit on the page, though, it must simply be added in the right way, in the right place.  Suggestions?Keithustus 17:25, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Adding this article in anyway, even the last time you added it is against WP:NPOV. Since I have already reverted this three times I can not revert it any more today and I hope someone else will.  Please don't use WP to bash or praise anything.  This article should remain completely accurate and proven with no opinions.Sir hugo 18:16, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The current text is as accurate as public knowledge. One link was used by another wikipedian and another is an interview with a Nintendo office head.  Perhaps the third is not relevant to the site, but the base text is accurate, unless someone can find a press release or something to contradict the developer and the backed-up Nintendo website?  --Keithustus 18:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I've removed 2 of the links. The statemnt about using friend codes remains but goes no further.--The Viper 18:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Let it go. If you don't like the way the system handles online play and nintendo has second thoughts, then there's always the possibility of a firmware upgrade via wiiconnect24 to better support it. It would also be possible to impliment such a system into the DS. I mean, Wii-to-DS connectivity is confirmed, so something downloaded from wiiconnect24 is easily transmissable. You know, just like what everyone has been saying.
 * Regardless, Wikipedia is not the place for advertising what you believe and the article, speculative at best, does not belong. If it did, then just imagine what "libelous" claims would be made in, say, the article on Jack Thompson. Make another edit to the article and you'll likely hear about it from a moderator. -Super Genus 22:26, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah yes sorry I've angered the Wikelite by adding the documented beginnings of a criticism section. It's a good thing not-yet-released systems like the Playstation 3 can't have a criticism secti.....wait, oh, ...we'd better go delete that one for being speculative too, huh?  --Keithustus 23:29, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Criticism based on facts is fine but criticism based on speculation is not.--The Viper 01:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Not all of the online DS games require the friend code system. I don't know how it works, but I think the only game where you could go online only with friend code friends is Animal Crossing. I could be wrong though. This is definately nothing you can base a criticism section on. Once something is released, don't they usually get a "Reception" section?Tuesday42 01:13, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe Friend Codes will strike a chord with people, like sharing your mobile number or myspace username, it could be just what people are looking for. Personally I think Nintendo would have spent A LOT more time and money thinking over the subject of the onlin system than you have, I mean there are billions of dollars riding on this for them so they would have picked whatever they thought would be the best option. Wheras for you the decision is relatively risk free, at under 200 quid it wouldn't be a big loss to you if the online system was awkward. In fact it wouldn't be a loss at all if the Wii still rocks your socks JayKeaton 17:09, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * In addition to violating NPOV, drawing conclusions or inferences from a cited source qualifies as original research, and Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought or speculation. That's why the argument against Friend Code-based online play can't be allowed in Wikipedia, as it violates at least three of the fundamental wikipolicies.

On a related note, however, regarding the Friend Code system -- didn't we already cover that in the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection article? Limitations on how well a player can "search" depend upon the game and how it is designed. Many DS games allow the user to search for matches on a worldwide or regional basis. I heard that the Tony Hawk DS allows users to search for players who have the same Friends registered in their own lists (aka the "friend of a friend" search), and Metroid Prime Hunters has a "Rivals" option allowing two players to 'tag' each other for rematches after a round.. So while the Friend Code system is indeed quite limited (it's designed for people that you know in real life), other search options will vary depending on how the developers make each game, so drawing conclusions based upon the announcement that the Wii system will use Friend Codes somehow is still just guesswork at best. We'll all just have to wait and se. --Stratadrake 00:28, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

WII = Piss
Why is this hard hitting serious discussion being avoid in the article?
 * SIGN YOUR POSTS WITH FOUR TIDES (~) !!! And it isn't relevant. The name refers to "we", as in you, I and everyone. and FYI, this has already been discussed erlier in the talk page :p. DevAnubis 13:53, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes it has been discussed on multiple occasions and the consenus was that it did not belong in the article. It was not avoided and is not even close to being hard hitting. --My old username 20:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright. I went through all the pages of archives looking for these naming disputes, and I found them remarkably inconclusive, i.e. no consensus was reached. Please show me a place where everyone agreed, and if they did, why has it repeatedly come up again? Clearly not everyone agrees. There was plenty of arguing about whether "we" sounds like "wee" sounds like "wii" sounds like "oui" and other such nonsense, but it didn't feel like anything was really resolved. So here's what I think.


 * I think that the slang references should be included. I mean, the article already has a name section, and it mentions "the suitability of the final name" but doesn't list any reasons why there is any question or doubt in people's minds. It has a vague (but true!) statement about it being the subject of debate by consumers and industry experts, no citations given, but it's not allowed to have things like "because Wii sounds like 'wee', which is slang for...". By doing this we're either saying that "wee" isn't slang for anything or that nobody has made the connection yet. I mean, do we have to wait for an independent survey group to call up 1000 people and ask them what the word "Wii" (spoken, not spelled) brings to their minds before we can say "Some people find the name questionable because the similarly pronounced 'wee' can refer to either urine or the penis"? Do we need to cite instances where "some people" do think these things, such as VG cats ("Avoiding Penis Jokes"), 9w YouTube comments ("Come and play with my Wii"), and Wiilog ("I wonder if we'll be seeing "streaming content"..."), or the countless other sites and actual news articles questioning the suitability of the name? I've seen some bad reasons to not include the slang reference, such as "Everybody already knows that it sounds like 'wee'" (while at the same time, everybody already knows that Cheese is a solid food, yet the Wikipedia article feels it should include that factoid) or the opposite "That never even occured to me" (and shouldn't we be educating people on what they don't know, as well?), from "I'm sure only you made the connection between Wii and penis" (which is why so many sites are mentioning it, right?) to "Inappropriate and unrelated" (which I'm also inclined to disagree with, given that Wikipedia is not censored and consumer reactions are very important to a product). Overall I haven't seen one solid reason why discussing the reasons behind the reaction to the name is a no-go zone. --Twile 21:16, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I personally think that we should go with the general consensus against incliuding it. Alsothe sites you mention would not be allowed uder WP:V and WP:RS. Blogs and user comments are not often used for enclopedic articles and I don't see anything that would make this different. --My old username 23:18, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I can't believ we even need to discuss this. People making urine and penis jokes have the maturity of 4 year olds. They are probably the same people who laugh when they meet someone who's name is "Dick" or "Johnson". TJ Spyke 23:27, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * There you go, trying to sidestep the issue. THIS IS NOT MAKING URINE AND PENIS JOKES. Just because we post something that is true doesn't mean we're making the joke, and doesn't make us less mature or professional. Please, make an argument or don't say anything. Unlike people in the past, I'm not willing to give up just because someone whines about maturity. --Twile 23:43, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Adding in these pre-school jokes does nothing to help the article and actually makes it worse. That is why I am against adding in that stuff. TJ Spyke 23:45, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If they're pre-school jokes, then there must be a lot of pre-schoolers with net connections and typing skills. Please note that the humor doesn't die with age, people just tend to use it less. However when it's thrust in their face in the form of a product name, it's rather hard to ignore. And please clarify, how does lacking completeness hurt the article? --Twile
 * I said they are people with the MATURITY of pre-schoolrs. It's not lacking completness, that's like saying that any article on someone who's name is "Dick" is incomplete if it doesn't mention that their name is also the name of a male genitalia. TJ Spyke 00:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * And if that person was infamous for being called that jokingly, it would be appropriate to put that in. Consider Dick Army, in which they reference the Family Guy episode where Peter makes fun of his name, and SNL skits where they parody him as "Penis Navy". Is it mature? No. But it is notable. --Twile 01:06, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * While I can appreciate the need for verifiable information and statements from reputable sources, that doesn't change a thing. Even if we can't use news sources like Forbes (who said, "Forums and Nintendo's own message boards are teeming with ideas for clever slogans to go with the new moniker. 'Eat, Sleep and Wii,' for instance, is one of many stabs at toilet humoresque catchphrases."), we shouldn't have to. All over the web, people are or have been making jokes about the Wii name, and all one needs to back that up is a sampling of those jokes, where they were posted. This isn't some detailed research or statistics that need to be cited by a reputable source, this is just saying "Many people, especially those on forums and internet circles, have noted that the name Wii sounds like the English slang for 'wee' which means 'urine' or 'penis', possibly diminishing its suitability as a final name." and providing a link or two to articles or comments which deal with precisely that. When the Wii has been out for months or years and someone does a study on how the name impacts consumer decision to get it or not, then we can cite that; until then, there's no reason to leave out the first impression that comes to many people's minds when you say "I want a Wii". --Twile 23:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Is this a really hard hitting issue? No. Should this be put in the article? No way. Did Nintendo purposefully name it this because they found the "private part" pun funny? No. Are we (sensible Wikipedians) constantly debating this stupid issue for absolutely no reason at all? Yes. Have we done this to the point of being included in among the lamest edit wars of Wikipedia? Yes.--Signor 00:50, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd also like to say it's not my fault you guys couldn't sensibly resolve this before, and that it turned into an edit war. Note that I'm not editing the article so this isn't part of an edit war, rather it's trying to decide whether something makes sense to be in the article or not usign the talk section. --Twile 01:08, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's just so silly and pointless (and I know silly) to the point that some anon IP can come in here, say that Wii=Piss, leave, and we consistently make a huge debate on this. Listen people, please, no urine reference. Can someone please put up a warning similar to the also much debated over "Dontcha mean Nintendo Wii?" issue?--Signor 01:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No, that won't do. You didn't vote on leaving the urine reference out, you didn't come to any sort of consensus. People kept on popping up and saying "Why is this relevant piece of information being left out?" If this hadn't been asked, I would have asked it myself, having just read the article. Yet again, you guys provide absolutely no reasoning as to why the reference should be left out, other than side-stepping the issue, and then trying to wave away the issue as having already been addressed. Let's hear some reasoning. --Twile 01:31, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * There actually has not been a serious edit war in months. There have been the occasional time that someone put it back in but that has been mostly speardic and removed each time. Also in the last discussion there was no one arguing that it should be let in so I have no idea where you get the idea that there was no consensus. It was reached a long time ago. A few random people putting it back in does not equal a lack of consenus. You need a better argument than that. --My old username 02:13, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't you dare talk to me about needing a better argument. I've been saying for several posts now that I'd like to see an argument that YOU guys have. Can you come up with ONE SOLID REASON why it should be left out other than "mumble mumble I think we decided this already"? I read the posts. I saw no vote. And as I currently disagree, there is again no consensus. So let's do this. You convince me why there shouldn't be a Wii section. And please, take heed of my earlier post about Dick Army before you say anything, I'd hate to have to repeat myself so soon. --Twile 02:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * We've given good reasons, YOU have yet to proove how saying that some people have made bathroom jokes about the name benefits the article in any way. TJ Spyke 02:29, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No, no, do it right here, right now. I went through ten massive archive pages looking for your arguments and didn't find anything worthwhile. You seem so familiar with the issue, due me a big favor and recap it for me. And you want to know why this is important to the article? Because it's a public reaction. The PS3 Controller article can talk about the negative public reaction to its controller, and the only difference here is you can't get past the fact that it sounds like bathroom humor. --Twile 02:43, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * As I have stated some time ago, it is valid to have a section about all the stuff surrounding the machine name. However, most times people come here and say "Wii is a slang for urine" without giving sources a) that it is an accepted slang for urine and b) who compared Wii with urine. Links to forums, blogs, etc, are not reliable sources. I tried searching for good references for the section, but I realized most serious sites I use as reference expressed a disgust for the name, but most times sidestepped the "issue". And when found, people here decided not to use them, and since I did not want to write the section myself (can't remember why), I let the issue drop. -- ReyBrujo 02:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Finally, someone who seems sensible. I'm willing to address both of these things. Checking Wiktionary or Dictionary.com (assuming your common sense doesn't speak up before) will reveal that "wee" is slang for urine or urinating. You want those cited? I'll do that. And finding good places which mention the Wii as a joking name? I'll find those too, though really any place which mentions that is an example of people who are making that mental connection. Really though, this seems like dancing through red tape to try and post something that is clearly truthful and even verifiable. Does Wii sound like we/wee? Yes. Is wee slang for urine? Yes. Have people made large numbers of jokes about it? Yes. Is the social perception of an object an important thing to put in an encyclopedia entry about it? Yes. If Nintendo had decided to call it the "Shite" (pronounced "shitty") rather than the "Wii", you'd be quite hard pressed to argue against this, even though it's still just common slang terminology. --Twile 02:39, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The homophonic properties of slang words are not worth including unless they are intended. As per Wiki disambiguation as in not including unintentional homophones for every wikipage that has one, I do not support the notion of including a Wii=urine reference. --The Viper 02:31, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not just included because it's an unintentional homophone. It would be included because of the number of people who have noticed and taken issue with that homophone. --Twile 02:38, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * You do realize that it has been a while since the name has been ridiculed, when it was first reveales, it was mercilessly mocked and questioned. Now, it's acceptable to type the name withought an (ugh, hate that name). I haven't seen any bashing of the Wii name in Gamespot (online gaming site) recently, not even in the notorious system wars. The users in SW bash it because of the "lack of 3rd party support" or "the horrendous graphics". They don't even bother debating of the name.--Signor 03:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Nobody can deny the name was mocked. Now, we need to find reliable sources for that. And remember what and when to link. In other words, don't wikilink urine. -- ReyBrujo 03:21, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point about System Wars. I haven't seen anyone make an issue of this for some time. Neither System Wars or Next-Gen Gaming (a similar board on Gamefaqs) have brought this issue up for some time. It simply is not that big an issue anymore so I don't see why we would need to include it now. Also I don't believe that we have to have a poll to show consensus, the fact that no one else seams to argee that this should be added is a good indication though I wouldn't have any problems if someone decided to do make one. --My old username 03:28, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I still have a problem with the phrase from the article, "The suitability of the final name has been a subject of debate among some consumers and industry members". It's like saying "Some people didn't like that movie" in that it doesn't describe what people's specific complaints were. As it seemed to me, most of the stuff people talked about stemmed from two things; first, people seemed to think "Revolution" sounded better than "Wii", and second people poked fun at the name for all the things you could say which sounded strange. So I'm still left wondering why none of this is mentioned in the article, just that the suitability of the name was a subject of debate. Does the following really sound so bad?
 * "The console was known by the codename of "Revolution" until immediately prior to E3 2006. The suitability of the final name has been a subject of debate among some consumers and industry members, due both to the similarity with the slang word wee and to the popularity of the then-accepted codename "Revolution"."
 * I like it for two reasons. First, I don't think that focuses too strongly on the urine relation. And second, it it gives some support to the preceding statement about why people might think it unsuitable. I think that, with some sources, that would work... do people here still have a huge problem with the proposed revision? --Twile 03:57, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Prior to E3, everyone knew close to squat about the console, ninty let the name out early (2 weeks prior I recall) to get all the "omfg wii-wii" and "bad moves from Nintendo~stuffy analyst" out of the way and get people used to it, they didn't want the name to detract from E3 2006 presentations. Overall, E3 was a major success for Ninty, and criticism of it evaporated quickly, with the focus of said criticism instead being directed towards Sony's subpar and shocking conference presentation (price). So all criticism was in between the revealing of the name and the E3 conference. From the analyst's reports at Gamespot that are usually published, no mention of the way the name will affect things are present, because analysts have more to analyze than just a silly name and a strange controller.--Signor 04:21, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

You know... "box" can also mean "vagina". So does that mean that it should be noted on the Xbox page?? -SaturnYoshi 06:31, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I have a 22,000 member gaming community. The Wii=pee jokes ended before E3 even happened.  The people that made the jokes the most were biased to Nintendo to begin with.  As for news of the console, I don't think I ever once remember reading about the homophentic properties at any site.  By the way, has the vibrator jokes about the Rumble pak and GC microphone been noted in their Wiki articles?  I didn't think so.  Does the oft-abbreviated Microsoft "MS" have a section for the M$ notations by those with a MS bias in its article?  Does Virgin Atlantic/Records/Galatic have  comments regarding the jokes of their name as well?  Wiki requests a form of disambiguity in that what is done with most articles is done with the others as well.  Because other articles do not have notations regarding said jokes about their names, neither should the Wii article.--The Viper 03:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Besides, how many people actually think piss right off the bat when they hear "Wii"? -SaturnYoshi 17:50, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Why don't we just end this stupid argument once and for all and just vote on it. What are the odds of the slang even winning?--Uturnaroun 01:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Probably slim, considering that only one person was arguing about it. -SaturnYoshi 01:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I would say it was less than slim due to the fact that the orginal argurer has not had anyone supporting their position in over two days. If there were enough of them to form a consesus to add urine references some of them would have posted by now. --My old username 01:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Jeez, things move fast on here. I go away for a weekend to get caught up on work and I come back with everyone thinking and hoping I've dropped off the face of the planet. Reason the Xbox doesn't mention vagina, and none of the other examples listed mention their respective nicknames? Because, so far as I know, nobody really makes or made those jokes. If they did, and it's verifiable and notable, as is with the Wii, then sure--put it in there. People making the jokes being biased? Hardly, I've got money set aside for a Wii, I've been looking at every scrap of info I can get about it (why the hell else would I be watching this talk page?), same with all of my friends, and they all think the same thing. Now I'm going to ask this again: Why does the article say "The suitability of the final name has been a subject of debate among some consumers and industry members" and stop there? WHY did people question the suitability? There's a loose end hanging there. *checks article* Ah wait, I see. That part has been taken out (courtesty of KingBabi, who didn't do a description of his/her edit). Then I have to ask why that is, too. Can it not be said that although there was initially some questioning about the name, it seems to have been generally accepted? Or are we just going to pretend that everyone said "Wii. Yeah, that sounds like a good name" the first time they heard it? Come on people, I love the Wii as much as anyone else, but I still don't get why people want to act like the name was automatically and universally loved by everyone. Let's face it, it wasn't, and there are ample sources of evidence to support this. --Twile 17:51, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Vote
If you think some form of a reference to urine is needed on this article vote Yes if you think it shouldnt be included vote No

Yes
Votes for referencing the urine jokes go here.

No
Votes against referencing these jokes go here.

No This is childish humor that should not be included in WP. I consider it vandalism and stupid, it hurts the article more then helps it. By the way, this can be four year old humor even if an adult finds it funny, it just means that adult has the sense of humor of a child which alot of men do.Sir hugo 19:51, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

No way. This is utterly stupid. It's not notable enough that a few people thought it was funny bathroom humor (primarily Wikipedia vandals.) SaturnYoshi has the best points up above. Grand master  ka  19:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * By the way, can we agree to unprotect the page when this discussion is finished? It doesn't seem warranted anymore and that semi-protected notice at the top is annoying. Grand  master  ka  22:37, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The protection tag was up before this started. I think it has to do with with lists of games. I am not sure if that was resolved. --70.48.172.72 03:38, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

No. Don't be ridiculous. "Hehe, that sounds a bit like a rude word" does not belong in Wikipedia. Dpmarshall 20:01, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

No per almost all discussion on this. Jaxad0127 21:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

No, It's just childish and not something that should be in an encyclopedia. TJ Spyke 21:32, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

No. Now then, let's put this lame debate to rest. (Can we archive this discussion and put that warning up top like "Nintendo Wii?")--Signor 22:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

No, just no. JQF 23:28, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

No, its only ok to state what Nintendo thinks of the name. FullMetal Falcon 23:54, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

No, Urine does not come to mind when I hear "Wii". -SaturnYoshi 00:02, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

No, It's noted that there was debate but the details of the debate are not needed nor are they verifiable without personal research.--The Viper 01:21, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Vote Closed
Since this is an overwhelming majority for the Negative then it is concluded that NO references to urine should be made in this article.Sir hugo 11:58, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Wii UK release+price
Confirmed! http://www.mcvuk.com/newsitem.php?id=24356 I added it in. Hope that's not a problem. PureLegend 18:40, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * We'll need a better source than the one you provided if we're going to say it's confirmed. According to the linked page, the price is MCV's own assertion, and not Nintendo's. Dancter 18:59, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, the news was refuted earlier today by Nintendo UK. -- ReyBrujo 19:04, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you think it's worth keeping then, with the refutation added? I'm thinking this should probably be deleted as just another space-wasting rumor. Dancter 19:26, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No need for that, as it has been refuted. The casual user comes here looking for information about date and price, and a paragraph saying something like "MCV stated the item will be priced 179 pounds, but later Nintendo refuted" isn't really worth. I may have vouched to keep that in a "Rumours" paragraph, but since we are supposed to be getting more information next week, it can stay out. -- ReyBrujo 21:09, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Thats dumb. The statement Nintendo UK put out said they were NOT FAR OFF. It is therefore clear that the false dates of October 2 and Late September that ARE on the site are in fact not correct, further confusing those "casual users" you just mentioned. Thanks Omega21 23:10, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * "Not far off" could mean a month. We already know it's not coming out in September, but an October release is still possible. Also, all the release dates on the main page are for the North American launch. Europe will more than likely get it after us. TJ Spyke 23:16, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

wii spec rumors or real?
http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=8802 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Atlfalcons866 (talk • contribs) 03:54, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed your text and replaced it with a link. Please don't cut and paste large amounts of text into the talk page that could just as effectively be linked to. It wastes space. The Maxconsole specs have been discussed before. It was generally agreed that they weren't reliable enough to go in the article. Jon Hannibal made a pretty convincing argument why the specs are just well-crafted speculation. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060802-7407.html Dancter 04:07, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Supposed Wii European Launch Date and Price
IGN has reported that the games industry trade magazine MCV has stated that the Wii will be released by 24 November for £149 (about $278) here. But, of course, I can't add that to the page yet, because I just registered. Suaveslav 20:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Read above, Nintendo of Europe has already said that magazine is wrong. TJ Spyke 20:23, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, they never said the magazine was wrong, just that there would be a lot of speculation.

Suaveslav 00:18, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * "They're definitely not right," sounds like they are saying the magazine is wrong. TJ Spyke 00:39, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Possible Cost andDate
After Research I have found out the Wii could be out by October 2 and before November 24 and that the Wii should cost between $140-$200.This is not confirmed but is very likely.Salokin 02:12, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Your "research" probably consisted of reading rumors. TJ Spyke 02:25, 10 September 2006 (UTC)