Talk:William Bentvena

Introduction
Image:175px-0321051henryhill1.jpg

Why do people keep reverting the introductory paragraph from this article. I'm reinstating it. Could an explanation be given before removing it again. Arthur Holland 13:06, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Misleading info
"Devino had not seen DeSimone since both men were teenagers"... how can Devino and DeSimone both be teenagers when Devino's b-year is 1921 & DeSimone's is 1950?

Surviving relatives
Anyone got any info on Billy's relatives or family, when was he reported missing or things like that, I'm a total Batts and DeSimone fanatic.

Mugshot
I was wondering if you knew how to access the NYPD files because we could probably get a mugshot of Batts when he was arrested for drug dealing. Have you guys heard that in the court trial of James Burke FBI Agent McDonald actually dug up the land where Batts was buried. Any reference other than Goodfellas on the line "and yelled 'shine these f***ing shoes' "?

Batts Info
Could Arthur Holland please contact me and tell me where he got all of the info on Batts, I've tried Wiseguy, the internet, Gangsters and GoodFellas and I've even asked the NYPD for info on him. But I can't even get a mugshot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JBAK (talk • contribs)


 * I know my name is the first one on the article history, but that's only because I copied across a mis-named existing article which had Batts' real name as "William Jerothe" (if memory serves). The only info I have on Batts is from Pileggi's Wiseguy. Arthur Holland 12:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks Arthur. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JBAK (talk • contribs)


 * Sorry to be critical, but I don't think the changes JBAK has made are suitable for Wikipedia. They are narative in style, contain levels of detail which cannot be verified this far after the event, and use idiomatic language. I don't want to impose my opinion however, so would ask what others think. Thoughts anyone? Arthur Holland 11:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

ArthurHolland's Critical Stance
I do see your point, however, I did look it up from possibly the only person still alive who has information relating to Billy Batts. I do agree however and as such I put a paragraph at the bottom informing readers about the only surviving witness being so unpredictable.

I respect others on Wikipedia and if I'm voted out to change it, then if it's editted I won't re-instate it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JBAK (talk • contribs)

When Bılly was Kılled
Although ın the fılm GoodFellas ıt reads that Bılly was kılled on June 11th 1970 I was readıng Wıseguy and ın the book Henry Hıll says that Batts was kılled shortly after hıs arrest, ın January of 1968, for assaultıng a man whom he belıeved was sexually ınsultıng hıs wıfe Karen Hıll.

The Devino name
How does Arthur Holland know that Devino is Batts' real name because I don't recall a reference to it in Wiseguy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.20.2.175 (talk • contribs)


 * I got the name from existing articles on Wikipedia. The Article was originally entitled Willam Devino. I know this contradicts my earlier statement on this talk page, but if you look at the article history, you will see that the remark attached to my first version of the article is that I copied it across from the misnamed "Willam" Devino article. I assumed it was wrong as the text of the article referred several times to "William" Devino. Elsewhere in Wikipedia, there were references to Batts' real name being Jerothe and/or Devino. I presumed that the Jerothe reference was an error as it didn't sound (to me at least) at all Italian. Apologies if I got this wrong.


 * Also, for what it's worth, I will restate my opinion that this article is currently not in good shape at all: the language is far too flowery, POV and narrative in tone, and the level of detail is impossible to verify at this distance in time. I'm not inclined to make changes myself as the only people contributing to the page don't appear to agree with me - It's all yours; do what you want.


 * Furthermore, you might want to sign comments (you can do this by putting four ~ symbols at the end of your comment) otherwise the talk page gets rather confused. Arthur Holland 15:55, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Billy Batts
Could somebody please tell me which book/text they acquired the info on Batts' Date of Birth and his Induction into the Mafia. Also, if anyone knows why he was nicknamed Billy Batts could they please tell me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JBAK (talk • contribs)

I was wondering if a mistake may have been made on the real name of Batts, I saw a Gambino member in Gotti:Rise and Fall called Billy Battista, Battista into Batts seems more sensible that Devino into Batts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.69.176 (talk • contribs)

Arthur Holland
Could you please confirm where you found out that Batts' name was DeVino, if you do not then it will be reverted to Jerothe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JBAK (talk • contribs)


 * I confirmed it two days ago (see above). Please sign your comments. Arthur Holland 10:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Date of Birth
I am becoming quite annoyed at the fact that people are constantly changing Batts' Date of Birth from the 19th-14th-9th. Could this please either stop or an explanation be provided. JBAK 15:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

DeVino, DeVinno or Devino
Both DeVino and DeVinno, to my comprehension of Italian surname etymology, mean 'of wine', however Devino, spealt without making the V a capital letter, would mean 'divine', so could someone please tell me where they first saw the name and adjust the spelling as well. JBAK 15:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

List the info
Can someone please verify where the initial information on Batts was gotten from, i.e. the date of birth and information on his induction into the mafia because otherwise this page is at serious risk of being tagged for a lack of sources. Lots of people have worked very hard (including myself and Arthur Holland) on this page and we require that extra verification. JBAK 17:59, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

The Batts name
William Devino isn't Billy Batts, there, according to many sources, never really anyone called Billy Batts. Devino was a drunkard who used to hang around John Gotti's clubs, probably for legal reasons in the 1985 book, Wiseguy, they re-named Ronnie Jerothe as Billy Batts. Ronald Jerrothe was the made made who got battered in 1974, apparently the belief, upheld in Gangsters and GoodFellas, that Jerrothe was a different man to Batts is untrue.

I don't know if William Devino had a nickname, but no-one had ever heard of a guy named Billy Batts until Wiseguy came out and then GoodFellas was released. Perhaps this entire page should be merged with the Ronald Jerothe page.

This information was obtained from www.goodfellahenryhill.com/socialclub

NO RONALD JEROTHE
There was noone named Ronald Jerothe. First of all, someone with this name could not have been made, because it is not an Italian name. Second William "Billy Batts" DeVino was very real.

Who left this message.

By the way I've never seen a book referring to anyone by the name of William Devino, I've read a few books, including Gangsters and GoodFellas and The Heist, mentioning a guy named Ronald 'Foxy' Jerrothe and whoever says he couldn't be made is wrong, it's an Italian name, pronounced JER-O-TEE. JBAK 19:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

wHEN HE WENT TO JAIL
According to the book, The Mafia's Greatest Hits Billy Batts went to jail for 8 years, not 6, meaning he was imprisoned in 1962 and not 1964 in order to have been released by May of 1970.

Also, can someone please put where they got the initial information, on his Date of birth and when he got made, even if the only information is that you know the Devino family or have read it on the internet.

Thanks, —Preceding unsigned comment added by JBAK (talk • contribs)

Ronnie Jerrothe
I've read all of John Gotti's biographies and it never mentions William Devino once, if were a 'life-long' friend it would surely mention him. Whereas it repeatedly mentions Ronald Jerrothe, it seems reasonable that in fact the Billy Batts nickname was created for Wiseguy, and was used in Gangsters and GoodFellas, GoodFellas (film} and Joe Dogs: The Life and Crimes of a Mobster.

In essence it seems reasonable that Ronald 'Foxy' Jerrothe was in fact Billy Batts, if there's no replies to this, proving that William Devino is definitely Billy Batts I'll soon be merging Ronald Jerrothe into this page. So it's required that someone give some evidence, soon. JBAK 21:08, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Billy Batts
An FBI agent who dealt with the case of Billy Batts said that his real name was Billy Batts, not Jerrothe or Devino and that it was a possibility that he was made despite being a non-Italian, as were Junior Gotti and Harvey 'Christopher' Rosenberg.

It's believed he may have been a member of the Jewish mob or the Westies Alliance, an Irish gang.

NO RONALD JEROTHE
There is no J in Italian. Jerothe is not an Italian name. There was no Ronald Jerothe, William DeVino was Billy Batts.

Jacopo? Ajaccio? Juventus? Mpaniello (talk) 16:24, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Ron Jerrothe
Okay, I'll concede that, but could you tell me which book you found out about Devino from so that I can put it in the References section.

If you read the book Gangsters and Goodfellas, by Henry Hill, it has a chapter about the motivation of the Billy Batts murder. In this section it mentions that his birth name was William Paul DeVino. This exact quote is "Batts' real name was William Paul DeVino. He was born in Brooklyn on the same block as me on January 19, 1921. Tommy got rid of him on my 27th birthday."

THANKS
Thanks man, I really have to thank you, but I've got Gangsters and GoodFellas and it just calls him Billy Batts, is there another edition or something. Where did you buy your copy because I'll buy one from there and get the info.

I bought it on amazon.

So did I, do you mean Amazon.com

yes amazon.com, it was used

Thanks, because the one I've got just says 'Billy was from the same neighbourhood as me but he was in a different family. He was the Gambinos'.

Billy Batts
I'm curious, does anyone know why they called William DeVino Billy Batts, I mean I can understand the Billy part, but Batts, it seems pretty random.

He was called Billy Batts because he once beat up a cop using one baseball bat in each hand.

Not to impose a personal opinion, but he sounds like he had being vicously murdered coming to him, if you ask me. I'm very sorry to press you on the issue, but could the person who gave the info on the Batts name please confirm where he found it out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JBAK (talk • contribs)

Getting Made
I was just curious but does Gangsters and GoodFellas also detail when he got made, also there's a descrepancy in the article. It says he became a 'member' in 1959 and got made in 1961, I thought being a member and getting made meant the same thing.

Also if he was called Batts because he battered a cop with a baseball bat, wouldn't he be Billy Bats, without the double t.

Becoming a member just means he was an associate, being made meant he became a soldier for the family.

Being a “Member” doesn’t mean an “Associate”. It refers to a person that was inducted (Made) into the family as a “Member” of that family. Patriotpride16t (talk) 04:49, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Billy's Life
Does anyone know anything else about Batts, I mean who were his family, was he in WW2, had he been to jail before things like that which add to an article.

Misleading portrayal
From all the information we seem to have at our disposal the murder of DeVino was the only one Hill bore witness to, directly, and it's brutality has been emphasised in all writings and other representations of the killing, however, it's highly likely that many other murders were equally brutal (people struggling for their lives while being strangled, shot, bludgeoned to death, punched e.t.c., won't be a pleasant site in most cases), but because informants with the 'artisitc flair for reality' didn't see them they're portrayed in a clinical way, this article could follow that example.

JBAK88 10:17, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Ronald Jerothe/Billy Batts
In response to the person earlier who needed evidence that Ronald Jerothe and Billy Batts were not the same person, Jerothe was shot to death in his apartment. There was a crime scene and a body, he definitely existed.

Billy Batts, or William Devino or whoever he really was, is an entirely separate person. Unfortunately the NYPD is probably the worst agency to try and get any records from so that route, particularly without a case number or even concrete identifying details, is a dead end. The FBI debriefed Hill, and at least temporarily conducted an investigation into the Billy Batts murder, so that might be a possible way to find out more. Aside from that, unless someone can pinpoint a specific case file with the Attorney's Offices in New York, or perhaps if someone can figure out which Federal prison Billy Batts served his drug sentence at it is likely going to be very difficult to find anything meaningful on him to add on to Hill's account. Dugrad 11:38, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Mention of "Wiseguy" without introduction
Needs to be fixed. Ryoung 122 06:27, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Completely wrong person
The “photo” that has “William Devino’s name is incorrect. It’s actually Pat “The Cat” Spuritto (spelling?) Patriotpride16t (talk) 04:41, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Pasquale “Pat the cat” Spirito is how it is spelled. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/157870533/pasquale-a_-spirito — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.224.163.71 (talk) 11:29, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Birth Year?
There's a NY Times article from 1962 detailing the trial and conviction of Bentvena along with other mobsters, and his age is given as 26, meaning he would've been born in 1936 or 1937. Is there reliable documentation, such as a birth certificate, supporting his birth year being 1921?

https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1962/06/26/82048459.html?pageNumber=65

Mpaniello (talk) 17:38, 23 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I think you’re good to go to implement that change. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 03:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Well, that would require some major changes throughout the article as well, at least with some of the biographical details, and I'm not knowledgeable enough about the subject to be qualified to make such a major revision, so I'll leave it to those better-equipped. Mpaniello (talk) 04:44, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * is there a web archive link you can link to not behind a paywall? Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 00:55, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, there doesn't seem to be an archived version. I would upload a screenshot but you have to state that it's your own work, unfortunately. Mpaniello (talk) 03:46, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I implemented the change. Can you let me know if the ages for Mirra and Galante appear correct when you check their wikis against the NY Times article? Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 16:13, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, didn't see this earlier, . I don't see any ages given for Mirra or Galante in the body of the edited Wiki article. In the Times article, Galante's age is given as 32 and curiously no age is given for Mirra. Mpaniello (talk) 21:52, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Mirra was given as 32 years old in in 1962? That would put his birth year at 1929/30 not 1927 as in the wiki article. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 04:45, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I meant Galante! I fixed my post. Mpaniello (talk) 12:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Galante at 32??? That would put his birth year at 1930 even though he was born in 1910 and that is more traceable given his marriage etc. This makes me question the validity of this article even though it is the Times. Hmm <b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★ 18:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)