Talk:Winton Motor Carriage Company

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There is a discrepency as to the first auto purchased in the United States. The Duryea Comapny was formed to build and sell gasoline powered automobiles in June or July 1895. The first auto race in the US was held on November 28, 1895 and was won by a Duyrea racing model. In 1896 the company manufactured and sold 13 vehicles to the public two years before Winton's first sale according to the current article. These differed somewhat from the previous winning vehicle. In addition, Henry Ford built his Quadricycle in 1896 and sold this almost immediately for $200. The Stanley Steam Car Company produced their first car in 1897. "The new mechanical wagon with the awful name automobile has come to stay..." New York Times (1897 article).

This does not even take into account the product of the European manufacturers whose product was imported into the US. [url]http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aaautomobilenameorigin.htm[/url]

There are articles which state that Winton sold the first US vehicle, however Duryea was in production in 1896, it would be hard to believe they didn't sell any in 2.5 years. In addition Ford sold his first vehicle the Quadricycle. Ransome E Olds was making steam, electric and gas powered vehicles since 1890. It would be hard to believe he didn't sell any before he started a company to produce autos in quantity.

Wired Magazine article claims Winton had first automobile advertisement.Samatva (talk) 03:45, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Fact check
A user (72.152.187.33) added this comment: "This may be questionable in that it is noted that the first automobile advertisement was in Scientific American for the Winton Automobile dated July 30, 1898." in regard to this statement in the 1898 section:
 * On March 24, 1898 Robert Allison of Port Carbon, Pennsylvania became one of the first persons to buy an American-built automobile when he bought a Winton after seeing an advertisement in Scientific American.

I think his point is that this page Wired Magazine article says the first auto ad was in july, but the 1898 section claims that a car was purchased as a result of an ad in march. Something isn't quite right. I added a citation needed tag to the fact on the page. HornColumbia (talk) 04:21, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

There are self serving claims by Winton that he sold the first gasoline powere automobile including a letter dated 1911 from Mr. Allison stating that he bought the first Winton and was the first auto buyer(by a few hours), however;

In March 1896, Charles and Frank Duryea offered for sale the first commercial automobile, the Duryea motor wagon. Two months later, New York City motorist Henry Wells hit a bicyclist with his new Duryea. The rider suffered a broken leg, Wells spent a night in jail and the nation's first traffic accident was recorded.

citation: http://inventors.about.com/od/dstartinventors/a/DuryeaBrothers.htm there are numerous subtatntiations of the Duryea claim.

It would be impossible for Winton to have made the first auto, started the first auto company, won the first auto race or sold the first gasoline or any other type of automobile as he was preceded and documented by a number of people on each count. Baronvon (talk) 18:37, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Revised 1898 article to more neutral and cited claim. Saved deleted reference for 1898 claim: That is true if you don't count the 13 vehicles produced and sold in 1896 along with an unknown number in 1897 by the Duryea Motor Car Company, the first Quadricycle produced by Henry Ford in 1896 sold for $200 in 1896 to Charles Ainsley, some of the 200 Stanley Steam vehicles produced in 1897 and 1898 by the Stanley twins, The Haynes vehicles sold in 1896 and 1897, the vehicles manufactured by Ransom E Olds before starting his formal car comapany along with several other manufacturers, making Robert Allison the 20th or more purchaser of a United States manufactured automobile in March of 1898. Baronvon (talk) 15:13, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Regardless of any facts, the 1898 section now seems to be arguing with itself. We need to apply a neutral tone there. HornColumbia  talk  04:35, 30 April 2012 (UTC)