Talk:Xbox 360/Archive 7

Rumors
There is a rumor saying that Epic persuaded Microsoft to double the total system RAM from 256 to 512, is that real? Wikipedialista 22:08, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=148029 seems to confirm that. I'm not if this sort of trivia belongs in a Wikipedia article though...? Adw2000 14:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Isn't the main picture too amateur?
I mean, the carpet, the quality... etc It's too amateur for being displayed as the main one... we should get another with more quality.
 * Agreed.

--189.135.61.213 04:06, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the image is perfect. Its very simplicity makes the viewer focus immediately on the console instead of the glare from glass case or some messy kiosk.  Most importantly, the image's copyrights are very clear.--Kenn Caesius 19:51, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The picture needs to be photoshoped or something. It needs to be more professional in some way, even though it doesnt match up to the PS3's image. FullMetal Falcon 02:24, 17 October 2006 (UTC)




 * There already is one. Image:Xbox 360 white background.jpg Dancter 18:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, just remove that carpet so as to have a nice background. --148.241.71.47 18:32, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

While I don't mind the original, I think Dancter's image is much better. Since the consensus seems to be to change it, I've gone ahead and done so. Koweja 19:01, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks sort of obviously cut out. Let me have a second with it before you put it in. --gatoatigrado 02:24, 22 October 2006 (UTC)




 * that took a long time, and it's not that much better. Someone needs to take a better picture. Without the remote control. --gatoatigrado 05:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Anyway put that one in while we get another one, it's better than the one with the carpet --189.135.66.229 05:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Below is another version with different shadows. Shawnc 18:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)



I think we should put the microsoft media remote in instead of a third-party remote. Neodarksaver 03:36, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't understand you mean. What third-party remote? Dancter 03:56, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Theres definitely something wrong about the main picture. It does seem amateur-ish.

I like the "Xbox 360 white background 1" the best. the shadows in the other two make the croppings look out of place. I say it should be changed to that one. --Msc44 23:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Wireless controllers as a standard?
I have removed the claim that the Xbox 360 is "the first console to provide wireless controllers as a standard" twice, but User:74.33.2.89 (talk • contribs) keeps adding the statement back. Since the Core System comes with a wired controller, I don't think one can claim that wireless controllers are standard.  Pagra shtak  04:09, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The Xbox 360 includes them as standard, a 1st party bundle designed for people who don't want to pay full rpice doesn't include them. Saying it doesn't include them as standard is a lack of undestanding of Microsoft's retail configurations. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.33.2.89 (talk • contribs).
 * By that logic, would it not be equally correct to say that the Xbox 360 provides wired controllers as a standard then? The sentence as it stands is misleading.  Pagra shtak  04:50, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The core isn't the full console, the Xbox 360 contains wireless controllers as standard.
 * Wireless is the standard, as all Xbox 360 consoles can use them, and furthermore, the maximum ammount of controllers CANNOT be acheived with the base hardware availible. I'd do research on who you are to deterine fanboyship, but you look good will, and I'm lazy right now. I say follow a simplify philosphy (or however thats spelled), and take it out under the premise that it is unnecissary information, consitering that it doesn't really matter. - 68.228.33.74 06:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that it needs to make more clear that wireless controllers do not always come with the Xbox 360, and that's when purchasing a Microsoft pack. I've adjusted the wording to give more an impression of wireless controller compatability instead. Mewcenary 08:57, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I've tweaked it to say the first to provide wireless controller support at launch, which should clear up the confusion.  Pagra shtak  14:43, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

pov statements

 * this removal has been consistently reverted without discussion., , , , , . Please discuss changes on the talk page before you revert . --gatoatigrado 09:58, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

"The Xbox 360 has an extensive amount of bandwidth in comparison to its competition". 

I hate to sound like a fanboy. I have an Xbox 360 "premium", so don't say anything. But on another level technical incorrectness and distortion is just wrong. --gatoatigrado 17:37, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * 1) The article linked to is the "Microsoft Competitive Comparison". Guaranteed to be pov.
 * 2) The cell has good experimental bandwidth (Wikipeida's previous version ).
 * 3) this Microsoft propaganda is **** ****. This is the main point in the ref. They are counting the "memory performance" of the eDram on the GPU. This is like counting the 51 GB/s on all of the Cell's Local Stores, and adding them up (the number is 357, equally irrelevant). The eDram is specialized memory, as my article revision more accurately shows.


 * would someone make a reference out of this article? or find one from a better source? thanks. this is in regard to the antialiasing comments. diff. reference. --24.7.86.143 01:19, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

It's a relevant factual comment from a reliable source, there is no need to discuss it's inclusion. Your other comment is already in the GPU section. (inserted by gatoatigrado from 70.101.200.243's edit summary)


 * "Your other comment is already in the GPU section." I'm sorry, you're right. It is from a "reliable" but highly biased source (Microsoft). That is not IGN's words, they are providing a copy of Microsoft's "competitive comparison" document. It is not the purpose of this article to spread Microsoft propaganda. Please reply on the talk page. Your edit summaries are good so I won't complain yet. --gatoatigrado 05:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

All specifications are from the company that makes the products, Microsoft releasing it doens't make it POV. All the numbers there are factual. The bandwidth conclusion was drawn by IGN (pg 3) (inserted by gatoatigrado from 70.101.200.243's edit summary)


 * On page 3, this (below) is Microsoft's. The information below the horizontal line, as I am interpreting it, is IGN's comments. --gatoatigrado 05:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

CONCLUSION When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.

However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games—by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services—will outperform the PlayStation 3.


 * This is what appears to be IGN's comments, below the horizontal line. --gatoatigrado 05:58, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Lastly, we were sent updated spec numbers on the Xbox's numbers, and we spoke with Microsoft's Vice President of hardware, Todd Holmdahl, about the Xbox 360's final transistor count.

Another bit of information sent our way is the final transistor count for Xbox 360's graphics subset. The GPU totals 332 million transistors, which is spit between the two separate dies that make up the part. The parent die is the "main" piece of the GPU, handling the large bulk of the graphics rendering, and is comprised of 232 million transistors. The daughter die contains the system's 10MB of embedded DRAM and its logic chip, which is capable of some additional 3D math. The daughter die totals an even 100 million transistors, bringing the total transistor count for the GPU to 232 million.

So, that's Microsoft's analysis. What do you make of it? Tell us what you think on the boards.


 * Information coming from a reliable source does not remove it from discussion. I would argue that articles such as http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,25689-2371220,00.html, which are obviously from reliable sources, are biased and conflict with other opinions. The criticism for lack of surface level innovation is one thing, but the "lack of wow factor" because many games are extensions to series started on the PlayStation 2 has been criticized by other users. Indeed, this link is still in the PlayStation 3 article, but it demonstrates how this can be controversial. --gatoatigrado 06:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I am removing this again. I do not want to get into a revert war. The person who made this edit was undoubtedly aware of the conflict, because it has of the exact same wording as before. . --gatoatigrado 09:44, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

100GB HDD Announced
A 100GB HDD was announced at X06 in Korea and was reported first onEngadget. How are we going to incorporate this into the article? I don't want to make any changes right now, as I want some sort of consensus about what to do about the announcement. --CanesOL79 16:18, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Eventually it should be listed in Xbox 360 components and accessories, but I wouldn't bother just yet. We may as well wait until their is more information - at least a release time frame and/or price. Koweja 16:28, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that sounds good to me. I didn't want to bother adding it into the article because it's unnecessary right now, as nothing is set in stone or finalized. --CanesOL79 18:15, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, just mention that it was announced, it's somewhat important. No extra details are necessary' --189.135.69.96 03:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, Microsoft has denied all claims of a 100GB Hard Drive. 71.163.110.222

Its the dev kit pack currently. And as long as Microsoft doesn't speak about its plans for a larger HD, we should. - Thekittenofterra 01:45, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Clock speed for Xbox 360
There seems to be some confusion of CS on the page concerning the 360 and its processors. Its 3.2GHz for each core,not total.

The PowerPc products page for example state "Microsoft's Xbox 360 console, available now, includes a 3.2 GHz custom IBM PowerPC chip with three symmetrical cores..." when it should have been 9.6GHz...same as with Intel's adverts stating "Pentium D processer at 3GHz".The 3 Ghz was the combined speed of the 2 cores.


 * uh, maybe you should read the hertz and dual core articles. you can't add clock cycles. it means multiple operations are being done per clock. --24.7.86.143 02:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


 * A clock speed is a clock speed. Memory will go at a specified clock speed, cores at another, other I/O at another.  To say "You have two cores going at 3 GHz, so it's really 6 GHz," doesn't work.  You may as well say, "We have around 2 million latches each operating at 3 GHz, so it's really going 6 million GHz."  Obviously, this is not correct.  It's like you clapping your hands once every second, then having a friend do the same.  You aren't both clapping your hands twice a second each; you're still just clapping your hands once a second.  Hope this has cleared some things up. Zebov (talk 06:19, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

GA on hold
The article, while good, doesn't meet a few points of WP:WIAGA:


 * 1b - I feel the lead, for such an indepth article, could be longer. It could perhaps include the games launched with Xbox 360 and initial consumer reaction. I should be able to gather the key information about the console from reading the lead, and at the moment it mostly tells me about the launch.
 * Slightly expanded, by a sentence or two.70.101.196.236 04:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * 2 - Development is fairly unreferenced (along with some other sections). For example, the development names should be cited, and how do I know that this happened?:

"In February of 2003 planning for the Xenon software platform began."
 * The book were the entire section was referanced from was removed because someone though it unneeded, readding a ref version of it to cite everything in there. Care to point out what other than that needs cited?74.33.13.26 00:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Cited now.74.33.13.26 03:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * 6a - there's no fair use rationale for most of the images! This is quite crucial.
 * All images that contain rational are deleted, the only way to get an image on this page is to have in not tagged on rationaled. :-/74.33.13.26 00:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Added rational that I saw on other similar images to the one that were fair-use.70.101.196.236 04:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Other than those points, I feel it's a good article (I learnt a lot reading it). Leave me a note on my talk page when you feel you've acted suffuciently on these points :) CloudNine 18:19, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Is "die" meant to be in it?
Is the word die meant to be in the caption for the picture in the "Graphics processing unit" section?58.106.37.243 08:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. "Die" is a term used to refer to Integrated circuit chips. Koweja 18:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

xbox 360 watts
should we change the 360 watts of up to 600 watts since 120 volts*5 amps=600watts? or is it different because the brick changes the current to D/C?


 * It simply doesn't use the entire amount of power that the power supply is able to supply. The same flawed argument (no offense) was put against the PlayStation 3, claiming it consumed 380 watts. People have measured the Xbox 360 at 160 watts. --gatoatigrado 11:49, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


 * how do they measure it?

Remember this is AC so 120 Volts * 5 Amps = 600 VoltAmps. On DC volts*amps=watts, but on AC volts*amps*power factor=watts or voltamps*power factor=watts.

Note: Original Post had a + instead of * this was fixed Rmcferren 21:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)Rmcferren 14 November 2006

Xbox Live Video
I'm sure everyone's on top of it, but Engadget's reporting that the TV/movie download service for Xbox 360 through Xbox Live is a go, and Ryan Block is even providing some details. I would add it myself, but my connection is pretty poor. http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/06/microsofts-xbox-live-video-hdtv-and-hd-movie-downloads-for-you/ Dancter 03:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Quick writeup, would go into more detail in main article, heres a summary that can be used in this one.123wiki123 05:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

On November 22, 2006 Microsoft launched Xbox Live Video, an exclusive video store accesable through the console. Both standard and high definition videos are avalible. At launch the service offered 800 hours of standard footage, and 200 hours of high definition. Both TV shows and movies are able for download, as are short streamable clips. Movies are rentable only, with an unlimited number of views in the first 24 hours after download. Television episodes are fully purchasable and are transferable to an unlimited number of consoles. Downloaded files use 5.1 surround audio and are encoded using VC-1 for video at 720p, with a bitrate of 6.8Mbps. Content is offered from MTV, VH1, Comedy Central, Turner Entertainment, CBS for television; and Warner Bros, Paramount for movies along others.

Don't want to add it until an official announcment, rumors look terrible in articles and it would be best to add the section once official information is released.123wiki123 05:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I've added the section above into the main article, in hidden comment form, to show users this is known of, but until things are official, it would be nice to keep it out of the visible article.123wiki123 05:13, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You can uncomment it now. This should be official enough. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/news/2006/20061106-moviestv.htm Dancter 06:30, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That was faster than expected. o.O70.101.196.236 12:40, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Is there a montly / yearly price added to Gold for these television services ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.33.98 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Live is still the same cost, the service itself adds nothing to price. The content on the service will cost though.123wiki123 00:07, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

vandals
Please add tag to the top.

Because of recent vandalism or other disruption, editing of this article by unregistered or newly registered users is currently disabled. Such users may discuss changes, request unprotection, or create an account.

Thank You —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.33.98 (talk • contribs) 16:26, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * should this article page have a locked status (like the playstation 3)?

MHz and GHz
I changed Mhz and Ghz to MHz and GHz and they were changed back? Isn't Hz the proper format?--Darin-0 13:24, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, Hz is correct. Koweja 13:45, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, remember Hz, kHz, MHz, GHz. And remember that kilo is lowercase. Rmcferren 17:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

1080i/p frequencies
Just a heads up and a real warning to people, the Xbox 360 Hi-Def output is *only* at 60Hz (NTSC style HD) not 50Hz (PAL B/G/M). This means that HDTV is more often not actually available on New Zealand, Australian, UK, etc HDTVs that generally only support 50Hz. I know that this has caught out many non US people, especially considering that some games *only* run at 60Hz, while others will run at either 60Hz or 50Hz.

Vote for removal of game library
I feel that the game section should be cleaned up like the ps3 (playstation 3) It's adding alot to the article, sure but ps3 has a seperate wiki for launch titles. This should be mainly about the hardware, not the software being played on it, ofcourse aside from xbox live. Remember this is an article, like an encylopedia, it shouldn't be used for promotional purposes or viral marketing. --64.231.255.85 10:41, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

GA passed
Sorry for the delay in rereviewing the article! I've passed it - my only tips are to split the lead into two paragraphs and make it more concise, and align the table to the right in the Retail Configurations section (change the notes to footnotes). Otherwise, it's good work! CloudNine 21:26, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Edit request
Could an administrator add a Czech interwiki link Xbox 360 to the article? Thanks. --Radek Bartoš 20:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. — TKD::Talk 20:58, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Further Edit Requests
A user uploaded a higher resolution logo of the original, but didn't change it here, so due to size constraints it was replaced with the current. Requesting it be changed back.

Current
 * logo = [[Image:360logo.jpg|250px|center|Xbox 360 logo]]

Original/Proper
 * logo =[[Image:X360_Logo.png|250px|Xbox 360 logo]]

67.138.78.50 21:20, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * 360Zine Free downloadable magazine

Site added without discussion, requesting removal. 67.138.78.50 21:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

What is wrong with that site addition? I would have thought the first, free XBox 360 magazine, created by actual journalists would warrant a place on the external links page for the XBox 360. OK, maybe I am naive, but I think that's pretty relevant. CranberryPub 00:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

7 GB changed to 9.4 GB

Referance for original number.

67.138.78.50 21:33, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Xbox games on Xbox 360

 * You are able to play normal Xbox games on Xbox 360 right?

You can play games that have backwards compatibility profiles if you have a hard drive.DeathSeeker 23:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Energy consumption??
This Topic should be included. It directly relates to environmental issues and the costs of operation.--Nemissimo II 20:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Added what I think you want.70.101.196.236 00:31, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Article lead
I've removed the following text from the article lead as presenting too much detail for an introduction to the topic:

The system contains a 3.2 GHz tri-core PowerPC based CPU and a 500 MHz GPU. Its Xbox Live service allows gamers to compete online, download games and additional content. Microsoft believes that its push towards high-definition gaming, year-early head start and its Xbox Live online gaming service will help the console be successful.

Deathseeker/76.210.226.142/123wiki123 disagrees with that removal, and we are currently going back and forth over it. I'd like to ask for input from other uninvolved editors as to whether they think this material belongs in the introductory paragraph, or is more appropriate further down in the article. Thanks, Nandesuka 06:06, 20 November 2006 (UTC) Unrelated note, you copied the URL of the wrong user, it's User:70.101.196.236 not User:76.210.226.142.

Lead section

The lead section or introduction paragraph (colloquially, "intro 'graf") of a Wikipedia article is the section before the first headline. The table of contents, if displayed, appears between the lead section and the first headline.

The lead should be capable of standing alone as a concise overview of the article, establishing context, explaining why the subject is interesting or notable, and describing its notable controversies, if there are any. It should be between one and four paragraphs long, should be carefully sourced as appropriate, and should be written in a clear and accessible style so that the reader is encouraged to read the rest of the article.

Is it that hard to follow wiki guidelines?123wiki123 07:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The lead is already a third the size it should be.123wiki123 07:13, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

"In the lead try to have a sentence, clause, or at least a word devoted to each of the main headlines in the article. "

1 Overview 
 * 1.1 Development
 * 1.2 Launch
 * 1.3 Retail configurations

Lead gets this section down pretty good, no mention of configurations though.

''The Xbox 360 is the successor to Microsoft's Xbox video game console, developed in cooperation with IBM, ATI, Samsung and SiS. Information on the console first came through viral marketing campaigns and it was officially unveiled on MTV on May 12, 2005, with detailed launch and game information divulged later that month at the prominent Electronic Entertainment Expo. The Xbox 360 is the first console to have a simultaneous launch across the three major regions, and the first to provide wireless controller support at launch.''

2 Xbox Live 
 * 2.1 Marketplace
 * 2.2 Arcade
 * 2.3 Video

Large enough section that it would merit an entire paragraph in the lead, current contains a single sentence.

''Its Xbox Live service allows gamers to compete online, download games and additional content. ''

3 Software 
 * 3.1 Dashboard
 * 3.2 Microsoft XNA
 * 3.3 Backward compatibility
 * 3.4 Game library

Not mentioned at all in the lead.

4 Hardware 
 * 4.1 Central processing unit
 * 4.2 Graphics processing unit
 * 4.3 Memory and system bandwidth
 * 4.4 Audio and video
 * 4.5 Storage
 * 4.6 Components and accessories
 * 4.7 Form factor

Large enough section that it would merit an entire paragraph in the lead, current contains a single sentence.

The system contains a 3.2 GHz tri-core PowerPC based CPU and a 500 MHz GPU.

 5 Sales 

Initial and total sales should cover this.

The console sold out completely at release and has since sold 6 million consoles worldwide.

Following the 3-4 paragraph policy for an article this size the lead should be expanded to something like this.
 * Paragraph 1 - Overview/Sales summary.
 * Paragraph 2 - Live in relation to the 360 summary.
 * Paragraph 3 - Software summary.
 * Paragraph 4 - Hardware summary.

Also note, the GA review stated lead expansion was needed.123wiki123 07:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Agree with Nandesuka ... although now I've "involved" myself by editing. The lead para may or may not need expansion, but it's no reason to stick stuff in there that doesn't belong.  I left the XBox Live mention, but left out the bit about MS "believing" yadda-yadda. - (Nuggetboy) (talk) (contribs) 17:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * 123, what policy states to include that piece of information? You keep claiming "policy", but all you're quoting is this WP:LEAD thing, which is a guideline.  Let me repeat, it's a style GUIDELINE; it's not a violation of anything if there is not exactly X words in the intro.  While the GA review may have stated that lead expansion was needed, you've got two editors here who feel that this piece of information does not belong.  If you insist on a fatter intro, find something wotrthy of the intro, something with which a layman could be drawn into the article. "The system contains a 3.2 GHz tri-core PowerPC based CPU and a 500 MHz GPU" is not it. To respond to your arrogant edit summary, "There is no argument to be made, policy states to include it, it's included", if other editors disagree with your edits, there IS argument to be made.  Stop thinking you WP:OWN this article and play nice with others. - (Nuggetboy) (talk) (contribs) 04:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Best-selling game?
The article still lists Call of Duty 2 as the best-selling Xbox 360 game to date. Surely that's changed by now. The source listed is from 2005, and the Oblivion article claims that Oblivion is the best-selling 360 game so far (at 1.7 million copies). Can we get some up-to-date information on this?TheWarlock 19:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * COD2 has sold 1.4 million for the 360. Oblivion has sold 1.7 million copies for both PC and 360. The Oblivion article is misquoting things.123wiki123 23:28, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Nonetheless, we need up-to-date sources on such things. VGCharts was last updated in March, and the market progresses more rapidly than that. I would not be surprised if Oblivion, GRAW, or Gears of War were currently the best-selling title. It's been a long time since launch. We don't want Wikipedia to be out of date, do we?TheWarlock 20:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * We don't care about up to date information, we care about verifiability. If reliable sources are not found, then we will keep the information, even if already outdated. -- ReyBrujo 20:46, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Modifications
Some Fans converted the 360 into a topnotch watercooled laptop with highres display -> Totalconversion to laptop.

The German Hacking Group Chaos Computer Club puplished 17 Mistakes Microsoft Made in the Xbox Security System & Xbox 360 Hacking  showing a possible future roadmap to Linux on the 360 during its 22nd Chaos Communication Congress. --Nemissimo II 21:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

split to Xbox 360 Hardware article?
This article is getting too long, and per WP:SIZE should be split soon in order to increase readability and relevance to readers. I feel that the best section to split would be Xbox 360 Hardware, as it is very specific and could be confusing to some readers anyway. Splitting that out would significantly decrease the size problem while making the topic easier to follow. - Mamyles 22:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Two things. First, if a user finds something confusing, don't remove it. Briefly explain it to them and be sure to wikilink anything the average user may not understand.. Second, read what's counted in size

"Readable prose" is the main body of the text, excluding sections such as:


 * Footnotes and reference sections ("see also", "external links", footnotes, bibliography, etc) Bulk of the article size
 * Diagrams and images
 * Tables and lists
 * Wikilinks and external URLs
 * Formatting and mark-up.

Excluding those the article is ~4,500 words. 75% the  beginning of an article to long warning. As articles up to 10,000 words are considered acceptable. This page if less than half the length needed for major splits.123wiki123 23:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think a split would be reasonable, although not strictly necessary. Alternatively, I've long supported trimming down the hardware section: we're an encyclopedia, not a spec shet. Nandesuka 23:38, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't just basing the suggestion on how many KB there were, or only on that the hardware section is confusing. As Nandesuka said, the hardware section is a bit too much. Splitting would trim it down, and there would be a link to the xbox hardware article for interested users. Also, I wouldn't consider it a major split. If the hardware section constitutes as major, then it really must be a problem. - Mamyles 03:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

If a user here doesn't want to read it they won't. If a user wanted to read it, they would. There's no reason to content fork for the sake of the section being "a bit to much". The majority of that section is already split into four other seperate article. Additional splits would just be a headache.123wiki123 03:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Original Xbox year one sales numbers
Can anyone find the sale number for the original Xbox for it's first year? It's be an interesting comparison note between the 360 and it's predecessor to place into the sales section. Which is fairly small in regards to post-launch information.123wiki123 06:10, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Found a source for 9.5 million sales a year and a half into the original xbox's life. Still can't find anything for plain year one sales.


 * Interesting note: The original xbox sold 13.7sales six months slower than than microsoft expects for the Xbox 360.123wiki123 06:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * 3.9 million for first end of july
 * In comparison, the 360 sold 5 million this far into it's life, 25%+ sales increase.
 * 8 million sold year one

Anyone know of a more reliable sources?

Protected
I have protected this article due to edit warring, any admin should feel free to unprotect it if protection is not required. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€  13:38, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Should someone who spells 'Leave me a message' ' £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ ' really be allowed to protect pages? 82.32.8.6 21:41, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * PinchasC is an admin and therefore carries the rights (and the duty) to protect pages when the need arises. His signature style is irrelevant. - (Nuggetboy) (talk) (contribs) 03:04, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Model numbers and model changes.
The console model does change or at least the number changes. Small differences in manufacturing process and different components make the console units different. I'd like to see a list of console models, when they were released and what the changes might have been. I am holding off buying an xbox 360 until I can confirm they released a new model. I am not speaking of something like the differences between a ps ps1 or ps2 and ps2 slim. I've known so many people that have broken xbox 360's I do not want invest any money in a product that has a high potential of breaking in one year or less.


 * Hum....getting too used to the PS/PS2-scheme huh? Xbox has always been the same from the beginning to the end, functionality-wise.  There's no cost cutting stuff like removing the firewire port, and cutting output connectors, unlike that of the PS/PS2.  There will be a new model with 65nm CPU, but that's not going to change anything in terms of functionality.  In reality the faulty models are well exagerated, and they don't really break if it isn't faulty to begin with.  On the other hand, how many of the 100ks of PS/PS2s belong to the same owners? I've known people who bought 2, 3, 4, 5, even 6 PSs, and yet they complain nothing. I can't tell you what went wrong with those "borken" 360s, but all I can say is that the cause was found monthes ago and things are fine now. Kenimaru 09:05, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Broken 360's are a joke. Anyways, Microsoft will generally fix yours for $150-free depending on whats wrong with it. If its their fault its usually free. Anyways, if your willing to hold off buying, wait till spring next year. There will be a price drop. Thekittenofterra 01:54, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Y Is this page fully protected? t
Why i s this page fully protected? I can find mistakes in the article that need to be revised/

i wish to correct 2999$ in Brazil to 299$
 * Can you find a reference for this price? Is that in dollars or reals? -- ReyBrujo 03:23, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Correct RRP for Ireland for premium to 409.99€ per -  Рэд хот (t • c • e) 16:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. -- ReyBrujo 03:19, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Consoles sold
says that the Xbox 360 has sold 7,400,666 consoles. I wasn’t sure this was ‘official’ so I didn’t add it in.
 * No, it is not. Although you could use a proxy article (that is, an article from a notable site quoting this one). -- ReyBrujo 18:15, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I think we should mention nextgenwars, I mean they take their info from fiscal reports so it is PRETTY accurate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Elven6 (talk • contribs).
 * We can quote the fiscal reports directly. What makes them unreliable is that they basically say that, if a console sold 1 unit per second during the past week, it will sell 1 unit per second during the next week. -- ReyBrujo 04:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

usb devices
I would be nice if the article said what type of usb devices are supported - for instance can an external usb hard drive or memory stick be used to save games. Does the system os support any other type of usb device other than keyboards and mouse? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.100.138.7 (talk • contribs).


 * The trouble is that such a list could easly get out of hand. Loosly it supports UMS (usb mass storage, i.e. 99.99% of flash and hdd storage), HID keyboards, cameras (UMS, and PTP), and music devices (UMS, MTP, and iPod). In fact about the only device it doesn't support is a mouse :) Note that ONLY Microsoft certificed devices can be used to store savegames/demos/etc...vortex 00:44, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * So basically everything except printers/scanners. You must be joking about the mouse? - I can understand it not being supported by most games (using a mouse in fps is cheating..) but in general they are invaluble. (what about the home developement kits that are supposed to be coming available - surely they would need a mouse)


 * Yep, no mouse... It will power up etc but there is no support in the dashboard nor any currently released game. That may well change, but I wouldn't bet on it. The Home development Kit is a SDK for the PC, the compiled game is then transfered to the xbox after. vortex 03:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * But if only certified devices can be used for game storage that should be mentioned I think.. Even if it is a bit of a kick in the face from microsoft/83.100.138.7 00:52, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Not really sure why it should be put in per say. Thre is lots of details that are not included in this artical, it's a general overview, not a tech spec. It's also fairly commonaly known info, MS has been upfront about it since before the release of the console. vortex 03:45, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If it's common info shouldn't it be in the article - in the same way that say - the Xbox plays DVD, ouputs hidef graphics etc are..(Apologies but this came as news to me)87.102.20.219 17:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Slighly different, playing DVDs, Hi-def, etc... are all features that are core to the Xbox 360 being a Xbox 360. Being able to use UMS for saved games is an assumption (incorrectly and on no grounds) of a feature and if all of those were listed the artical would be at least 10x longer :) The Xbox Memmory cards are not UMS (different plug, extra ICs), and never were sold as such so there is no reason why a UMS device could be used in their place (though I would like it if I could).


 * The place to talk about accessories is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_components_and_accessories artical anyhow. That artical is all about things you can add to the Xbox 360 and UMS would fit into that category. At this point it only includes Microsoft accessories but I see no reason why generic information about UMS can't be added. vortex 22:52, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd certainly appreciate a link to a list of microsoft certified devices on the page - can anyone provide one?87.102.12.129 16:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * How about the link in the "Components and accessories"? vortex 03:45, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you mean link 54 -to microsofts own tech page? - that doesn't mention that only microsoft certified devices can be used to same gaves or give a list of certified devices - have I missed something?87.102.20.219 16:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The link to this artical http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_components_and_accessories which has a list of all Microsoft add-ons. It doesn't state that UMS can't be used for saves, but they are not Microsoft components so they are not talked about at all. If you wanted to add that info, that would be the place to do it. vortex 22:52, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help.

Form Factor/Technical Problems
Why is the text for 'technical problems' tucked away under form factor? Hempeater 20:51, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Dashboard Update
Dashboard Version 2.0.4548 was released, so I updated that section, but I can't find what exactly was changed. Somebody want to take a look at that?

Jump In
No mention of the marketing campaign featuring the tagline 'Jump In'. Maybe worth a mention? Steven 19:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Maybe this should be cleaned up.
I see too much useless information in this article. Jmacns 23:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I tend to agree, but I've already made one pass slashing it down. Can you be more specific?  What in particular do you think is excess? Nandesuka 23:32, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

"Old" Media Remote.
This item is included as part of the non-core 360 pack instead of the Xbox Live Headset in Australia and New Zealand(Oceania) since Live simply isn't as popular over here where-as the DVD remote was a good seller for the original Xbox in this region. I don't know why it was changed, as it is clearly still avliable... I've since put the info that was removed back into the article, I see no reason why it should not be there. BrotherEstapol 02:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

xbox 360 what do i need
Hi new to xbox need to know what i need to go gaming online so many packages out there I gues I should go for the 360 premimum just dont know what else is req any hints and help much apriciated —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.58.233.129 (talk) 18:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC).
 * The information should be in the article. Remember that this is not a gaming forum, you should ask this kind of question at GameFAQs or NeoGAF, as we use these pages to talk about the article, not the topic. Thanks. -- ReyBrujo 18:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Next Generation reporting updated
Next Generation recently reported NPD total US sales of the 360 at 3.8 million. However, a search of monthly press releases puts the total at 3.4 million. While NPD could have updated its numbers, there is, at the very least, no press accounting of this happening.

Furthermore, since the article was posted as a source, it was updated to say:

"[Update] The NPD Group has informed Next-Gen that some of the historical figures that it released last night are incorrect. November results, however, are accurate. The historical errors affect forecasts, including Frazier's $13 billion-plus prediction for the full year, as well as percentage changes and year-to-date figures. The NPD apologizes and Next-Gen will update with corrections when the NPD releases the updated figures." -- Sequentialorg 18:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I received a response from the editors at Next Generation. They expect an update from NPD tomorrow.  According to the editors "All information outside of the italicized phrases are correct, according to NPD."  Considering that the 3.8 million number is in italics, this makes the source currently unreliable. -- Sequentialorg 18:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Remember that mailing a magazine or site asking for clarification is considered original research. Also, while the article is reliable because the source is reliable, the information may or may not be correct, which is something different. However, until there is an official clarification, the original article is correct. The task of journalists is to get information straight from primary sources, confirm it and publish it. Our task as editors is to find the different articles created by journalists and use them as source. Whenever we begin getting information from primary sources, confirming and publishing it ourselves, we turn into journalists, which is useful for Wikinews, but not Wikipedia. -- ReyBrujo 20:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The updated Next Generation article states clearly "Figures in question have been italicized." Therefore, though the source is reliable, the source is saying the specific numbers quoted in the Wikipedia article are not.  My original research amounts to nothing more than the editor paraphrasing what is actually in the article.


 * A Gamasutra article from December 4, 2006 states that according to Wedbush Morgan, analysts who are regularly quoted in NPD press accounts, "...NPD data shows that Xbox 360 hardware sales in the U.S. were 2.9 million units [through October NPD data]"


 * According to the linked Next Generation article, and all other available press accounts of the November NPD data, the 360 sold 511k units in November. If you add 2.9 million and 511k, you get approximately 3.4 million, not 3.8 million.  So, the information in the Wikipedia article regarding 360 US sales is admittedly and demonstrably wrong.  Is it the policy of Wikipedia editors to allow factually inaccurate data to remain in articles? -- Sequentialorg 20:45, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

The source used in the Wikipedia article has been updated. It now states "Xbox 360 was next, with 511,000 units sold, bringing life-to-date US sales to 3.4 million units." Please correct the information in the article. - Sequentialorg 16:43, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I have now fixed it. Dionyseus 16:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Correction Needed for Marketplace Video section
This line is incorrect, "Movies are available for rental, with an unlimited number of views in the first 24 hours after download."

How it works is you download the movie in which you have 14 days before it expires. Once you start watching it, you have 24 to view it as many times as you wish before it expires.

The marketplace page correctly lists "TV shows will be saved permanently while movies are only "rentals"; they will become unwatchable 24 hours after initial viewing or 14 days after purchase." although the wording of that is a bit confusing.70.225.164.9 21:13, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Outdated numbers
"has since sold 6 million consoles worldwide", in the opening paragraph, is no longer accurate. If you don't want to use reputable estimates like the 8.4 million reported by www.nexgenwars.com, at least say "well over 6 million".
 * Sorry, all information must be verifiable, thus we cannot use nexgenwars as a source. Dionyseus 02:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, I don't think you can call NGW "reputable" in any meaningful sense here. The numbers on NGW are based on a linear equation that adds N consoles per minute based on previous official numbers and analyst estimates.  Not to mention, we're about a month away from official numbers from Microsoft. -- Sequentialorg 02:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

The 360 has now sold over 10 million consoles and is expected to hit 11 million by the end of 2006. The numbers should be updated if they are to be there

http://www.cnet.com.au/games/xbox360/0,239035744,240055502,00.htm

Braumin 04:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * A better source will be needed before that claim can be in the article. If you read carefully, Moore's comment was a prediction, made before the console was even released. Dancter 04:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Top Game Sale
It isn't COD 2 it's Gears of war 2 million copies sold worldwide ;D Soruce : http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=151984&skip=yes

Picture virus?
Has anybody else noticed something strange about the Xbox 360 page? I just visited it and directly under the photo of the console, there was an image of a man holding his penis. However, I refreshed the page and it was gone but I also discovered yesterday that there is a similar picture on baseball player Keith Kernandez's page. However, it appears these pictures appear only from time to time on the page and the history makes no mention of an image even being there! Are specific pages on Wikipedia under fire from hackers or virus makers?

Scooter8913 19:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)I have also noticed these photos on the xbox 360 and Keith Hernandez articles. Please take these concerns seriously.

Reading Speed of PS3
The reading speed of PS3's blu-ray drive should be 9 MB/s instead of 4.5 MB/s displayed in the article. Can someone correct that? The error is found under "Storage" where it says "The Xbox 360 is equipped with a 12x DVD drive, capable of a maximum read rate of 16.0 MB/s, compared to Playstation 3's 4.5 MB/s." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lonegun (talk • contribs) 09:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

I agree, fixed that and updated the DVD read speed numbers, both sourced. Vash63 07:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Xbox on the PC
Is it possible to play Xbox 360 gmaes on the PC since you are able to insert the controller into the PC? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Scccscout (talk • contribs).


 * NoBrooza 19:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Controllers
"Up to four controllers are supported by the Xbox 360, in either wired or wireless forms." I can swear that this is not true. Only 3 wired controllers are supported on the Xbox 360, unless anyone else has a different Xbox 360 from me. Could someone check, clarify and change accordingly?--Nighthawkzx 06:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Apparently, a USB hub can be used to provide the extra port for a fourth wired controller. Dancter 17:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Yea, your right, but i think that the previous sentence structure was far too misleading anyway.--Nighthawkzx 18:49, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Immidieately protect this article
I cannot stand anonymous users vandalizing the page. It has gone long enough. Ihave to protect this article. Even though some of the anonymous users don't vandalize the page, We still need to protect it. Professional Gamer 14:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)