Template:Did you know nominations/Artists with the most number-ones on the U.S. Mainstream Top 40 chart


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by sst✈ 11:20, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

First hook promoted with image

Artists with the most number-ones on the U.S. Mainstream Top 40 chart

 * ... that Mariah Carey was the first singer to supplant herself at number-one on the United States' Pop Songs chart in 1995 ?


 * ALT1:... that Katy Perry has spent 46 weeks at number-one on the United States' Pop Songs chart, more than any other artist?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Al-Ma'arri
 * Comment: Depending on which one is preferred, a picture can be added for either Carey or Perry.

Created by Calvin999 (talk). Self-nominated at 16:26, 4 August 2015 (UTC).


 * Symbol possible vote.svg There are a few issues with this nomination:


 * There are large portions of unsourced text in the article. Specifically, the paragraphs about Justin Timberlake and Taylor Swift have no references at all. Nor did I see any sources in the article that said these were the artists who have the most number-one hits on the mainstream top 40.
 * These were not added by me. I'm removed them. — Calvin999  20:05, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Although the format you have chosen for this list complies with MOS:LIST, most lists on Wikipedia use "bulleted" or "numbered" list. I think you likely chose this format to accommodate the large paragraphs of text, but you also have section headings without text. I am worried that this may violate the manual of style. MOS:PARAGRAPHS states "[s]hort paragraphs and single sentences generally do not warrant their own subheading; in such circumstances, it may be preferable to use bullet points." If a subheading contains no text, then I certainly think a bulleted list would be preferable.
 * I disagree, paragraphs are fine. The sections without text are just ones I haven't got to yet. — Calvin999  20:05, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I think there may also be an issue with some of your references. For many of the songs mentioned in the article, you say X song spent Y number of weeks on the chart, and then you support that assertion by citing the charts for week 1, week 2, and week 3, etc. However, this does not show that these were the only weeks on which the songs appeared on the charts. To show why this is problematic, imagine I made the claim that "there are three people with red shirts in New York," and I supported this assertion by showing three different pictures of people wearing red shirts.
 * That's the best I can do with that. If you want to see who was number one before and after, just click on the dates. It also says in their first week the position it was the week before and it's peak until that point. — Calvin999  20:05, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * For Katy Perry and Maraiah Carey, you make claims about songs that were their "first" on the chart ("Hot n Cold" and "Dreamlover," respectively). To support these claims, you cite the charts for September 4, 1993 and November 29, 2008. However, these sources only show that they had songs on the chart at those times, not that they were the first of their songs to appear on the charts. How do we know they didn't have other songs on the chart earlier than that?
 * I've added citations to their Pop Songs chart history, which accounts their peaks in order of appearance. — Calvin999  20:05, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The main hook is not supported by the source cited in the article. According to the source, Mariah Carey was the first solo female artist to supplant herself on the chart, but the source suggests there may have been other singers who did so earlier in history (I did a quick google search but I couldn't find who they were). If you really want to keep the primary hook, I would suggest changing the word "singer" to "solo female artist." I would also remove the words "in 1995," because right now, it is not clear to the casual reader whether Carey was the first to supplant herself in 1995 (but not earlier years) or the first to supplant herself ever.
 * The source says "Mariah Carey first switched out songs at the summit with "Fantasy" and "One Sweet Day" (with Boyz II Men) in 1995.". I don't see how it's not supported? The source also says "the third act to replace herself at No. 1 in the chart's 21-year", meaning Outkast did so in 2003 and Iggy Azalea the third to do so in 2014. So not really sure what point you're trying to make here. It's in all in that source, not sure why you're googling it elsewhere. It couldn't be more clear that Mariah was the first, as I demonstrated with the direct quotes from the source just now. — Calvin999  20:05, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I reread the source, and it looks like you are correct. When I originally read the article, I made the mistake of assuming the Mainstream Top 40 Chart and the Rhythmic Songs Chart were the same. My apologies for the error on my part; the main hook is indeed supported by an appropriate citation. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 20:20, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I struck my inaccurate statement above. However, I still recommend removing the words "in 1995" at the end of the sentence to resolve potential ambiguity. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 00:48, 5 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The good news is that ALT1 is substantiated by an in-line citation, article was created on July 30, article is long enough, hook is interesting, and QPQ is satisfied. I'd be happy to review this again if these issues are addressed, but unfortunately I can't pass this nomination at this time. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 06:17, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Please re-read the sources to amend some of your points. — Calvin999  20:05, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg I know I said I would review this again, but I am still concerned that this article may have some issues with regard to formatting and references. Large portions of text includes assertions that are not supported by sources (see WP:CITE, WP:OR, and WP:SYNTH). Specifically, SYNTH states that articles should not "reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources". More significantly, I still don't see any sources that shows these are the artists who have had the most #1 hits on the chart. Therefore, I think it would be helpful to have another editor give this a look with a fresh set of eyes. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 20:32, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Source 5 says who had the most as of September 16, and it has little changed since then. — Calvin999  21:58, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I see now that the information is listed in that source. Nevertheless, I would add a footnote in the lead section to the source to support the assertion that these are, indeed, the artists with the most #1 hits on the chart (per the guidelines in WP:LEADCITE). As it is written now, readers likely won't realize that the information is listed in the source listed at fn.5, so I would provide a direct citation in the introduction. Thanks so much for clarifying this citation issue. However, I still have concerns about WP:OR, WP:SYNTH, and section headings without text, so I still think it is best to have another editor review this nomination. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 00:45, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree. Section headings without prose makes the article look incomplete. sovereign°sentinel (contribs) 05:48, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Well it hasn't been an issue before. An article doesn't need to be complete to submit for DYK. — Calvin999</b>  08:42, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, the supplemental rules (specifically D7) state otherwise: "There is a reasonable expectation that an article—even a short one—that is to appear on the front page should appear to be complete and not some sort of work in progress. Therefore, articles which include unexpanded headers are likely to be rejected." -- Notecardforfree (talk) 15:25, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Why not just put the list of names into a table and then combine the text about individual achievements into a single section? The header can be something like "Individual achievements." I also want to take this opportunity to encourage you to remove portions of the article that discuss the length of time individual songs spent at #1 of the chart. You derive these conclusions from a limited data-set, which may be incomplete. Even if the data set is complete, you are still synthesizing data in an inappropriate manner. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 15:59, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg Calvin999, last call. The WP:DYKSG issue is compelling; as the article stands now, with empty section headers, it will not pass DYK. If no progress is made by the end of the month, the nomination will regretfully be closed as unsuccessful. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:34, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
 * So do you just want the sections filled in by Wednesday?  — <b style="color:#595454">Calvin999</b>  17:39, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Calvin999, you'd need sourced material in all of the empty sections, yes. At that point, I'd want to call for a new reviewer to look at the synthesis issues raised above, since Notecardforfree wanted someone else to check them. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:46, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The article will be completed by midnight tomorrow night. I've already started.  — <b style="color:#595454">Calvin999</b>  20:14, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

I've tried to complete it, and I've expanded it a lot, but not enough to be re-reviewed. So you can close this. — <b style="color:#595454">Calvin999</b> 21:13, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Calvin999, it looks to me like you've made significant progress in improving the article and addressing the issues raised above. If you need another few days to get all the way there, that won't be an issue. As I said above, "if no progress is made by the end of the month" we'd have to close it, but as long as you're continuing your work to improve it, we're happy to keep it open. However, if you want to withdraw the nomination now, we can certainly do so. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:17, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh okay, thanks. Yes I would really like to see this hook promoted. I think it's a really good one. 07:17, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg It looks like this is ready for a new full review, now that the issues mentioned above appear to have been solved. (Former reviewer Notecardforfree requested a reviewer at WT:DYK.) BlueMoonset (talk) 03:31, 4 October 2015 (UTC)


 * ALT1 Symbol confirmed.svg. New enough when nominated. Long enough at 10,119 characters. Article generally presents facts and is therefore neutral, and cites sources with inline citations. Copyvios confidence 16.7%. Hooks are short enough, neutral and interesting, but unless I am missing something obvious, the first hook does not have a source. The second hook, however, is verified to the online source provided. The nominator seems to want to use an image with this hook, so please fill in a main page image template for each approved hook, and allow reviewers to review the image. QPQ done. sst✈ 12:05, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Eh, the first hook about her replacing herself at number-one is sourced and that is my preferred hook. It's in reference 22. — <b style="color:#595454">Calvin999</b>  19:21, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
 * If you do go with the first hook, please consider deleting the words "in 1995" (alternatively you can move this to the beginning of the sentence). As it is written now, the hook is ambiguous. It is not clear whether Carey was the first to supplant herself ever or the first to do so in 1995. In any case, thank you very much for the hard work improving this article. It is a great addition to the encyclopedia and I happy to see that it will be approved for DYK. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 22:08, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, remember that if you want to use an image with the hook, the image has to exist in the article. Right now the article only has images of Rihanna and Katy Perry. sst✈ 05:22, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I've added a photo of Carey, <S>but "1995" doesn't exist in the prose, so I'm not sure why you're saying to remove it. I thought you meant in her section, not the lead. — <b style="color:#595454">Calvin999</b>  08:11, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I still think that the main (Mariah Carey) hook has WP:SYNTH issues. sst✈ 09:39, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The source says "Mariah Carey first switched out songs at the summit with "Fantasy" and "One Sweet Day" (with Boyz II Men) in 1995." Please explain how I am synthesizing information. I removed all of the weekly charts sources for each week each song was at number-one. Anything in this article now is coming directly from a written article by a writer at Billboard. — <b style="color:#595454">Calvin999</b>  09:43, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I would recommend you to add the citation for this right after the mention of "1995" in the article, if you really want to use the first hook. sst✈ 14:07, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Not for the lead, no. Lead is a summary of the main body and is meant to be citation free. It's written, sourced and cited in Carey's paragraph. — <b style="color:#595454">Calvin999</b>  18:36, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I struck the portion of the primary hook that I found problematic (i.e. was she the first person to do it in 1995 or the first person to do it ever?). Calvin is correct, however, that the assertion in the primary hook is supported directly by an inline citation. The article says, "'One Sweet Day' replaced 'Fantasy' at number-one, making Carey the first artist to replace herself since the charts inception on October 3, 1992." This assertion is supported by this source, which says "[Iggy] Azalea becomes the just the third act to replace herself at No. 1 in the chart's 21-year history – and the first to do so with her first two chart entries. OutKast reigned in succession with "Hey Ya!" and "The Way You Move" (featuring Sleepy Brown) in 2003-04. Mariah Carey first switched out songs at the summit with "Fantasy" and "One Sweet Day" (with Boyz II Men) in 1995." -- Notecardforfree (talk) 00:00, 6 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Modified first hook is Symbol confirmed.svg now good to go. sst✈ 04:00, 6 October 2015 (UTC)