Template talk:English football updater

Updating
Now that this is almost universally rolled out, I've been giving some thought as to how we update this at the end of the season. For the national divisions, this should be fairly straightforward – perhaps one update on the final day of the season, then another one after the play-offs.

The issue comes once we get into the regionalised leagues, as it won't be known which division clubs are in until the FA have announced their step 2-4 allocations in mid-May. The risk is that the finishing positions are updated for the 2016–17 season, but the league transfers are missed because people assume that if it says 2016–17 in a line, it's already been fully updated.

The risk is even bigger for leagues at step 5 and below, as some league line-ups are not finalised until league AGMs well into June, and unlike the 2-4 allocations which are done centrally by the FA, they all happen on different dates.

One option is to avoid updating the template for regionalised leagues until the 2017–18 allocations are announced, although this would probably frustrate some readers who want it updated the minute the season finishes.

The alternative is to update the finishing positions, and then come back to update the new league allocations. This will be more beneficial to readers but carries the risks of missing updates. Perhaps if we go down this route, we should have a rule that: We could also put a marker against leagues where only the finishing positions have been updated (perhaps ) and then remove this once the allocations are made.
 * 1) Only the finishing position is updated on the final day of the season/after the play-offs and we do not start moving clubs around on the template at that point, and then
 * 2) The new season's league/division is only updated after the FA allocations/league AGMs.

Thoughts? Pinging as you guys commented on the original discussion at WP:FOOTY. Cheers, Number   5  7  20:11, 18 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I go along with pretty well all you say. Regarding the regionalised leagues, I'd certainly recommend something along the lines of your suggested alternative, i.e. updating the season and position information as soon as the final matches of each division are played, and then updating them further after play-offs are complete. If this season and position information is not done promptly, then I can see many readers making their own amendments to the club articles, removing the templates in the process. I agree also that, for step 5 downwards, the new line-ups are not introduced until confirmed by the leagues (generally at their AGMs, but sometimes before). However, for a large number of leagues, it doesn't end with the AGM; changes are very often made long afterwards, sometimes even after first fixtures have been announced. So we need to keep a watch on all relevant leagues for any such changes, and make arrangements for the updater to be amended following each.


 * I like the idea of having a marker indicating Finishing positions updated only; it would certainly be of help to anyone involved in the updating of the template. Drawoh46 (talk) 10:15, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree that positions should be updated straight away, along with the new leagues for Levels 1–5. The regional divisions we usually need to wait until it is confirmed by the league committees. Best policy ultimately is to use common sense and in some cases it will be easier to simply update rather than argue. For example, if Blyth Spartans get promoted from the NPL, there is no way they will be placed into National League South. Vice versa with Truro City in the SFL.  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  16:30, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree with the above too. As mentioned, what we want to avoid is people over-typing the template with "free text" information, as then we're right back to square one..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 06:37, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 29 November 2016
Edd of Mercia (talk) 14:06, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Primefac (talk) 14:26, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 18 February 2017
Clay Cross Town F.C. of the Central Midlands League need their division changing from South Division to North Division, as they switched back for the 16/17 season, i.e. ClayCroT = North Division -  Chrism  would like to hear from you 18:57, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅. I've also removed a copyright violation from Clay Cross Town F.C.. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:46, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Requested edit
Please can someone update Forest Green Rovers? They were promoted to League Two today. Cheers,  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  16:08, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Done. Number   5  7  17:31, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Updating
I used to update the positions and leagues the old way, now this is not possible it appears. However, Merstham in the Isthmian Premier have been deducted points post season, but now nearly a month has passed and no one has updated the English football updater.

Secondly, it appears numerous clubs in the Isthmian 1 South haven't had the updater added to their individual club pages which obviously means their positions are not correct. I thought I could copy from another club but because each club has individual shortened codes I have no way of knowing what these are to be able to update them.

Both these issues need addressing but I have no knowledge of how this can be corrected, can someone please look into this.
 * I've updated the Isthmian Premier finishing positions. I'll also go through all its clubs and add the updater. Cheers, Number   5  7  19:47, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * All done now. Let me know if there are any other errors. Cheers, Number   5  7  20:08, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Why need XXyy of ZZ?
Why do we need to write the "of", like 1st of 20, 2nd of 24, etc.? Before last season (until 2015–16) this is not the way it was written. Previously it was written 1st, 2nd, etc. like in other leagues? Just asking, because it is kind of annoying and IMO, there is no need to write the amount of clubs in the league. – Flix11 (talk) 14:03, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Because finishing 13th of 24 is very different to finishing 13th of 13. It gives context to the finishing position. Number   5  7  17:04, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Updating
Liverpool are crown champions already; it's mathematically impossible for another club to overtake them on the table. Even though the season isn't over, do you think this means we should update it now? GOLDIEM J (talk) 17:51, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * In the first section on this talk page there was consensus that updates should only happen after the final match of the league season. We don't want to end up in a situation where some clubs have one season listed in their infobox and others have another. Number   5  7  18:56, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2021
Can we add Hilltop FC to the Middlesex County League. Ayaslem (talk) 18:44, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I'mn afraid not – as there is no article on Hilltop, it's not necessary. I see there is one in draftspace, but it fails the generally accepted notability guidelines for English football clubs (having played at step 6 or in the FA Cup/Trophy/Vase. Number   5  7  20:54, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Names/code names for clubs
Is there a list of the code names for the clubs somewhere? For instance, Brentford is "Brentfor". Beatpoet (talk) 11:45, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * No; the way the codes are made is:
 * Single name clubs: First eight letters of the club's name – e.g. Brentfor (Brentford) or Southamp (Southampton).
 * Clubs with more than one word: X letters of the first word plus the initials of the second/third part of the name; X would be 7 for clubs with two words (ManchesU or WolverhW), six for clubs with three etc (PrestoNE, QueensPR). If the first part of a clubs name is less than the number of letters, the rest is filled out with letters from the second/third names (WestHamU, CreweAle).
 * Number  5  7  12:02, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Cheers. What is Stoke City for example? I've tried every combination under the sun and can't get it to work. StokeCit doesn't work. Beatpoet (talk) 18:37, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Hmm, for some reason that is actually StokeCty. You can see what the codes are if you open the template for editing – the clubs are arranged by league and alphabetical order. You can also open the club article for editing and see the code used in the infobox. Number   5  7  19:32, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 July 2022
Hilltop Football Club has been promoted to Combined Counties League Premier Division North. Ayaslem (talk) 14:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. MadGuy7023 (talk) 14:18, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 January 2023
Hereford finished 12th in the 2021–22 National League North and not 11th.

Change Pascopedral (talk) 10:08, 30 January 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ after checking sources. Swapped 11th/12th with Southport. Gricehead (talk) 11:30, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

2023–24 leagues
I've updated steps 1–6 in Template:English football updater/sandbox. Should we wait until all the Premier League / EFL promotions/relegations are complete before updating? Also, does anyone know when step 7 allocations are confirmed? This year there were a lot of clubs relegated from step 6 as the FA has successfully filled up the pyramid. Cheers, Number   5  7  19:49, 16 May 2023 (UTC)


 * I've created a page for Copthorne F.C. who's just been promoted into the Southern Combination Football League Division One for the first time. Just realised that they haven't been included into the updater just yet. Would it be possible to add them in the current list? EddersGTI (talk) 22:34, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
 * They are in the one in the sandbox (as are all the other clubs just promoted to step 6). I'm happy to move the draft across if people think it's ok to update all the non-league divisions. Cheers, Number   5  7  08:06, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 May 2023
Please could you update the North Bucks League for Stony Stratford Town to reflect that they were in the Premier Division in season 2022/23 season and that they were 1st of 10 teams in that division. https://fulltime.thefa.com/index.html?league=1224533 84.70.185.162 (talk) 05:36, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Have updated the league for 2022–23. Finishing positions for this season are in the bulk update planned in Template:English football updater/sandbox. Will be done on Monday when all the leagues are complete. Cheers, Number   5  7  07:51, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 November 2023
StowmarT3 should be 7th of 20, not 74th of 20. Dean25 (talk) 13:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorted. Thanks! Number   5  7  15:53, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Team abbreviations
Cool template. Where do I find the list of team abbreviations? Also, when will these update for the 2024-25 season? I'm assuming in June? Froglife94 (talk) 14:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There is no list but you should be able to work it out from the eight letters used. It will be updated after the Championship play-off final, as that will be the final piece of the jigsaw as far as promotions/relegations are concerned. Cheers, Number   5  7  01:07, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Cheers. I'm updating this template in the EPL, starting with the relegated clubs. Froglife94 (talk) 14:25, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You can start updating the version in the sandbox, which might help avoid any duplication of effort. Number   5  7  22:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I have prepped all the changes required in the sandbox; just need the Championship play-off final result. Number   5  7  03:09, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Team abbreviations
Hello everyone. I am trying to create a wiki page for Easton F.C in Norfolk, UK, but I am unsure what the abbreviation would be for a club with less than eight letters. They play in the Anglian Combination league. What would be the correct abbreviation to use to update the league section of a wiki page I aim to make for Easton F.C. Any advice would be great. Thank you. Norfolktallent (talk) 20:10, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Clubs at that level aren't notable and an article on them would almost certainly be deleted. Number   5  7  21:45, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There are teams from lower tiers of the same league system who also have a Wikipedia page with clubs in the same tier of the English football league who also have Wikipedia pages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Combination_Football_League Norfolktallent (talk) 18:03, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The clubs in the Anglian Combination with articles previously played at a higher level. Number   5  7  22:05, 19 June 2024 (UTC)