Template talk:Infobox time zone UTC

Vandalism
User:LightandDark2000 and User:Materialscientist vandalised, I reverted: 77.191.39.83 (talk) 22:56, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) Sorting by time:
 * 22:55, 9 May 2019 diff hist -1‎  Template:Infobox time zone UTC/utc-meridian-west ‎ vandal // Undid revision 896352302 by LightandDark2000 (talk) current Tags: Undo, Non-autoconfirmed user rapidly reverting edits
 * 22:55, 9 May 2019 diff hist 0‎  Template:Infobox time zone UTC/utc-meridian-east ‎ vandal // Undid revision 896352085 by LightandDark2000 (talk) current Tag: Undo
 * 1) Correct reference
 * 22:55, 9 May 2019 diff hist +20‎  Template:Infobox time zone UTC/doc ‎ vandal // Undid revision 896353679 by Materialscientist (talk) current Tag: Undo
 * 1) Design
 * 22:54, 9 May 2019 diff hist +374‎  Template:Infobox time zone UTC ‎ vandal // Undid revision 896353673 by Materialscientist (talk) current Tag: Undo

The reason why we should return to the older version as consensus
I think we should return to the older version as consensus because the new version has time zones that are currently not being used. The time zones that are currently not being used on the time zone list. These time zones are UTC+01:30, UTC+02:30 and UTC+08:30. Lachlb (talk) 09:14, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
 * If a time zone isn't being used, then there's no reason it cannot be removed, but if we have an article on it we might as well have it in. However, the more important thing (from my perspective) is that you keep breaking the template when you make changes. Please use the /sandbox and /testcases to make changes and test them out before "going live" with the main template! Primefac (talk) 11:22, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi Primefac, I have made my proposed changes to this article on my sandbox. I have removed time zones UTC+01:30, UTC+02:30 and UTC+08:30 because these time zones are not being used. I made these changes to improve the article. Lachlb (talk) 23:07, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
 * , you made the change to the template. I disagree with the changes you made because it makes the infobox huge with little overall change. You need to sandbox changes and get consensus that they're good changes. Primefac (talk) 13:25, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Primefac, The reason why I made it larger so it is easier for people to click on and why I removed UTC+01:30, UTC+02:30 and UTC+08:30 because these three time zones are not being used by any country and I'm trying to improve the article and tested my changes on the sandbox without breaking anything. I really hope you agree with my changes because I took my time to edit this time and I didn't copy an old revision. Thank you so much for helping me with my proposed changes to this article. Lachlb (talk) 07:50, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

Lachlb: 77.191.124.226 (talk) 13:26, 28 May 2019 (UTC) 77.13.90.69 (talk) 19:56, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
 * inserting redirects
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=UTC%2B08:30&diff=896545213&oldid=896499492
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=UTC%2B10:00&diff=896546193&oldid=896498636
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=UTC%E2%88%9205:00&diff=896543041&oldid=896498484
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=UTC%2B08:00&diff=896546033&oldid=896498745
 * ... and 38 others...
 * removing categories, interwikis, references
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=UTC%2B08:30&diff=898558341&oldid=896545213
 * removing infobox and images
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=UTC%2B11%3A30&type=revision&diff=891443938&oldid=852308528

Show image for specific UTC offset before map of all of them?
Currently almost (?) all "UTC±nn:mm" articles (which seem to be [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Infobox_time_zone_UTC&limit=500&hidelinks=1 the only ones that call this template]) display an image for a single, specific timezone (namely, the one that is the subject of each article) immediately below the call to this template. I'm about to change that so the more specific image comes before the more general one provided by this template (because the multicolored map of all timezones/offsets is very difficult to understand on first glance, and is therefore not very helpful in illustrating any particular UTC offset), but I'm wondering if the functionality to show an offset-specific image should actually be added to this template. Opinions? - dcljr (talk) 08:29, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I've just fully-locked the template to avoid an edit war on an unrelated issue. Feel free to sandbox your changes to demonstrate what you mean. Primefac (talk) 10:43, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Why we should get rid of time zones not being used
I think we should get rid of time zones not currently being used because it makes no sense to have them because the picture showing the time zones of the world has only the ones that are currently being used and the time zones not currently in use are UTC-04:30, UTC+00:30, UTC+01:30, UTC+02:30, UTC+08:30 and UTC+11:30. I think these time zones should be removed because they are not currently being used and the picture showing the world time zones does not show these time zones. Lachlb (talk)
 * But they do (or did) exist at one point, and we have articles on them. If a time zone is not currently in use, then maybe when listing it there just should not be a colour (and/or have a key saying " are no longer used"). UTC time offsets does this by italicizing the defunct zones. Primefac (talk) 12:37, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: I've added the list of defunct time zones below and whether or not they are includedin this template. The 30s and 45s could easily be added in to the existing structure, but for the "odd" times we might need to add another row of grayed-out values. Primefac (talk) 15:04, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

30-minute offsets 45-minute offsets "Odd" offsets
 * −10:30
 * −08:30
 * −04:30 ✅
 * +00:30 ✅
 * +01:30 ✅
 * +02:30 ✅
 * +07:30
 * +08:30 ✅
 * +11:30 ✅
 * +08:45 ✅
 * +09:45
 * −00:44
 * −00:25:21
 * +00:20
 * +01:24
 * +04:51
 * +05:40
 * +07:20

Hi Primefac I think this will be a great idea because it will make the template make more sense by showing the colours of used time zones only and the time zones no longer being used showing would make more sense so the colours and time zones won’t be confusing. Lachlb (talk) 13:10, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

Split proposal
At the risk of fragmenting discussion even further, I'd like to propose that this template be split into two different templates based on the two different types of information it's trying to display: Unfortunately, I do not have the time at this particular moment to create sample templates illustrating this idea. Maybe tomorrow… - dcljr (talk) 05:49, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) One template would present the information specific to a particular UTC offset (i.e., the subject of the article calling the template, based on  detection), as is done in the bottom half of this template's output. This would still be a "sidebar" style infobox (i.e., floated right and shown at the top of the article), as this template currently is. The information shown would include the "Current time", "Meridians", and "Date-time group" information (whatever that is), as well as a map (at the top of the infobox) highlighting where the particular offset is (/was) used in the world, as I have suggested previously.
 * 2) A separate template would show the world map and "clickable" list of "all" UTC offsets, as is currently shown in the top half of this template's output, but it would be formatted as a centered, "horizontally oriented" navbox instead of a right-floated sidebar. This would allow that information to be presented in a much larger format (bigger image, presumably, and a wider box), which should improve both the visual appearance and the "usability" of that information (both aspects have been cited in the recent disagreements about this template).
 * It's a reasonable idea, but in that case it would probably make more sense to just have the image chucked into UTC time offsets. Primefac (talk) 13:08, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi Dcljr and Primefac, I think this is a great idea because it will provide more information on the time zones and show all the UTC time offsets. Lachlb (talk) 13:02, 22 June 2019 (UTC)


 * You're right, the "all time offsets" features of this template are largely redundant with Template:UTC time offsets. Since both templates are being used in the individual time-offset articles, it makes sense to merge that aspect of this template into the other. Unfortunately, simply "chucking" the image into that other template is not a good idea. For the map to be effective (which I don't believe it currently is), proper perception of the colors is crucial, since the colors are the only way of associating regions on the map to the linked time offsets listed below. This clearly runs counter to WP:COLOR. (And even with perfect color vision, I find it almost impossible to reliably tell which are "base" colors indicating that DST is not used, which are "darker" indicating that DST is used, and which are simply different colors indicating that a half-hour or quarter-hour offset is being used.) The situation could be greatly improved if the links were moved into the image itself by using a clickable image map. (The time offsets would still be listed in plain text separate from the map because that's how they're already presented in Template:UTC time offsets.) Alternatively, File:Worldwide Time Zones (including DST).png could be used instead of the one we're currently using (along with an image map), since it contains the time offsets in text on the map itself. Obviously I am not spending a lot of time on this right now (2 weeks since I said I might do something "tomorrow"), but if no one beats me to it, I plan to mock up something "soon" to see how the "split" and updating of Template:UTC time offsets could actually work. - dcljr (talk) 22:17, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Note that the offset-specific part of this proposed "split" (item #1 above) is, in effect, now being discussed at Templates for discussion/Log/2019 June 29. - dcljr (talk) 00:46, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Why we should make the box larger as it used to be to?
The reason why we should make the box larger as well as getting rid of time zone should not used like we used to have because it will make more sense by making it look better by people being able to see it more and click on the time zones more. Lachlb (talk) 08:16, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Why we should also unlock the template as we used to?
The reason why we should unlock the template as we used to because I accidentally used edit warring when I didn’t know that I was so I’m really sorry that I used edit warring, what I should have said instead when trying to fix something is in an edit summary is earlier version, return to earlier version or return to earlier version as consensus or wrote a message on the talk page. I promise that I will not use edit warring when I try to fix something. Lachlb (talk) 08:25, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 24 June 2019
I think the time zones no longer being used should go onto a separate template and should not have a colour or have a key saying " are no longer because I think if we do these ideas the colours and time zones won’t be a little confusing. I think we should have the split proposal as Dcljr suggested because it will provide more information about the time zones and the meridan of them and it will show a map of all the UTC time offsets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lachlb (talk • contribs) 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Requested unlock 26 June 2019
The reason why we should unlock the template as we used to on August 1 this year because I accidentally used edit warring when I didn’t know that I was so I’m really sorry that I used edit warring, what I should have said instead when trying to fix something is in an edit summary is earlier version, return to earlier version or return to earlier version as consensus or wrote a message on the talk page. I promise that I will not use edit warring when I try to fix something. My changes will be made consensus and will not get into a situation that led to the initial lock on the page. Lachlb (talk) 13:42, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Merge
Interested parties, take note: Now that the discussion about merging this template into Template:Infobox time zone has been closed (as merge) and it has been listed at Templates for discussion/Holding cell, someone needs to figure out how the merge will actually be accomplished. - dcljr (talk) 23:10, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I'll probably take care of that this weekend. Primefac (talk) 12:01, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The merge has been completed. Please see Template talk:Infobox time zone. - dcljr (talk) 04:44, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

is there something left to do that is preventing this from being redirected? --Gonnym (talk) 15:15, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I turned it into a wrapper so that the novel UTC param could be implemented. I guess since no one has found issue it can be subst'd and redirected. Primefac (talk) 18:31, 17 December 2019 (UTC)