Template talk:Netflix

Lilyhammer
Lilyhammer is not included on the list of original programs distributed by Netflix so for consistency I think it should be removed from this template as well. 81.230.184.49 (talk) 13:54, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Observation
This template seems less and less useful as time goes on and the list of original programming becomes longer and longer. Could the programming be split by genre, or form (film v. movie)?-MainlyTwelve (talk) 05:00, 20 December 2015 (UTC)


 * This template is getting huge and if Netflix keeps original programming it will become monstrous in a couple of years. I'm not saying something should be done right now, but soon, in a year maybe. There's got to be a way to make it more compact. -Hypree (talk) 14:42, 29 February 2016 (UTC) Edit: I moved my comment here under this topic. -Hypree (talk) 14:46, 29 February 2016 (UTC)


 * I think it just needs to go, it no longer seems useful. Hard to find anything in the mess of links, and there's already a category. -Fandraltastic (talk) 00:31, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

River
The show was originally produced by BBC, but as far as anywhere outside the UK is concerned - it's a Netflix show. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 22:28, 8 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Here is a list of a whole bunch of exclusive distribution shows and River is just one of them.–Dark Cocoa Frosting (talk) 22:37, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
 * If "Netflix lists them as Netflix originals", we should too. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 22:42, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
 * On the UK's Netflix Scream (TV series) is listed as a Netflix Original, See here. Although it originates on MTV in the US. If we are to list every show in this table that Netflix lists as an original anywhere in the world we will have a very long list. Although in some countries some shows (Such as The River in the US and Scream in the UK) may be listed as Netflix Originals they are not because they have aired on a different broadcaster in the show's original country. The River is not a netflix original because it aired in the UK a month before it was added to Netlix elsewhere. 12bigbrother12 (talk) 19:43, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I thought we operated on the verifiability, not truth principle. We don't get to decide what constitutes original prog%ramming, Netflix does. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 23:09, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Netflix has publicly acknowledged that these kinds of shows are not actually Netflix Originals even though they carry the logo; "A spokesperson for the streaming company has told us that the show is not a Netflix original, but the series carries a Netflix original logo on its official page on in its opening credits."


 * I think we must be cautious of conflating Netflix's original programming and programming that is merely broadcast there first in one or more countries.12bigbrother12 (talk) 10:38, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * In that case, can we create a new category within the template? We cannot just leave these programs out, considering that - as I previously mentioned - they are branded by Netflix as Netflix originals. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 13:23, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * No, as we should only be including shows in the network it was originally produced for. River would belong in a template for the BBC only, and not in that of foreign broadcasters.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 11:57, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Are you going to keep ignoring WP:V in conjunction with the fact that Netflix lists these shows as Netflix originals? Who decided that "we should only be including shows in the network it was originally produced for"? EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 13:37, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
 * It is verifiable that this is NOT a Netflix-produced show. Also note that Netflix itself is a WP:PRIMARY source.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:49, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
 * All things Netflix are defined only by Netflix. You can't dispute a Netflix label by citing a secondary source, because the label is defined only by Netflix. We go by what they say. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 02:07, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * No we don't - as explained to you here and on your talk page. --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:50, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Netflix supercedes your logic, and mine for that matter. "How can River be a Netflix original?" is answered simply thus: "Netflix labeled the show as a Netflix original". I thought WP:NOR was one of the unbreakable rules around here. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 12:39, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * "Because they said so" is not a logical argument. The fact is that it is not produced by or for Netflix, a fact which is easily backed up with sources.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:42, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, please stop continually re-adding the link. This was added, removed, now being discussed correctly per WP:BRD.  There needs to be consensus for addition, which is so far 3-1 against.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:47, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Who is the third editor? It's you and 12bigbrother12. And your facts are misrepresented - it was remove (you), revert removal=readd (me). Your move was bold, mine was revert. I also began this discussion. You made 5 reverts during our encounter, 4 of which were AFTER the discussion which was initiated by ME, not you or 12bigbrother12. As far as the topic here - we have a duty to relay exact information to our readers. A production company, in this case Netflix, makes its own rules. We merely pass the information to the general public. Your attempt to discredit them as the primary source is invalid in this case. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 12:56, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * The third is Dark Cocoa Frosting. The removal wasn't the bold move, the addition was.  The template should remain at the status quo (without the addition of a non-Netflix produced series) until there is consensus to add it.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:58, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, we are not Netflix's press office. We do not pass on whatever they say to the general public.  That's the problem with a WP:PRIMARYSOURCE.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:00, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Then you're kind of missing the point of this template: it's exactly that. This is the list of what Netflix calls original programming. Secondary sources can help elaborate, but never discredit the original. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 13:18, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * No, it isn't a list of what Netflix calls original programming, it's a navigation template designed to help readers navigate between various TV series and films that were produced by or for Netflix. --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:21, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Now this isn't a discussion about River but about what the template should be: a navigation panel of all "Netflix Originals" or a navigation panel of programs originally produced (in part) by Netflix. (Potentially one could add in English-speaking countries as this is the English Wikipedia.) Unfortunately, those two are not the same due to a language chosen by Netflix – if they had asked me I would have called them "Netflix Exclusives". I am fine with either choice for this template as long as it is consistent (and consensus), and that was what I wanted to point out. –Dark Cocoa Frosting (talk) 14:16, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. To follow established conventions, these "exclusives" need to continue to be excluded here, the same way that we don't show HBO or Showtime shows that are broadcast in the UK exclusively on Sky Atlantic in the Sky Atlantic template, etc, etc.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 14:22, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, at WP:TVINTL it states "Shows should be categorized by original broadcasters but not by other ones.". I think the spirit of this applies equally for navboxes per WP:NOTTVGUIDE.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:32, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Actually, I looked at the end credits of River on Netflix and it says "Kudos / Endemol Shine Group / in association with Netflix / for BBC / (c) Kudos Film & Television Limited 2015". Can anyone decipher this for me?–Dark Cocoa Frosting (talk) 17:44, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Haha, yeah, complicated to decipher this - if this is true, then maybe it belongs in the List of original programs distributed by Netflix section, and therefore it would belong in the navbox. Depends on the extent of their involvement I guess.  I wonder if there are any sources out there that give us more information.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:54, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Amazing... both Netflix and the show itself are telling you straight forward that it's a Netflix show, but somehow you find it indecipherable and need more proof. Do you need their CEOs to come down to your house and tell you in person? EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 10:56, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * This is new evidence. Let's see what secondary sources say about it.  Everything else so far seems to indicate no direct involvement from Netflix until after BBC transmission.  And no, it isn't "telling [us] straight forward that it's a Netflix show", it's more complicated than that.  And don't forget that CEOs of companies involved would be a WP:PRIMARY source.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:30, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree this looks complicated because it doesn't say "for BBC and Netflix" but it says "for BBC". I also wonder if this screen was added in the Netflix or was already present in the BBC broadcast but I have no way to check this right now.–Dark Cocoa Frosting (talk) 13:24, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * My first thought also. I'll see if it's still on BBC iPlayer later... --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:26, 13 January 2016 (UTC)


 * As for original broadcasters: in case of River, BBC is the original broadcaster only in the UK, while Netflix is still the original broadcaster worldwide outside the UK. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 10:59, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * You don't understand what original broadcaster means do you? --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:18, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * You know there is a world of viewers outside the UK, don't you? EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 12:20, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * River is clearly not original netflix programming and should not be included in this template (per 1, 2 and 3), unless we retitle the navbox to something other than "Netflix original programming" and then include all the other series they're showing but not producing.  Nik the  stunned  13:43, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Real Rob
For those interested, I've started a discussion at Talk:List of original programs distributed by Netflix as to whether this counts as a Netflix series or not, the outcome there should determine its inclusion here. --Rob Sinden (talk) 14:34, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Split or collapse?
This navbox is quite large. I wonder if there are ways to split or collapse the content? --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:17, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * User:Another Believer, split is probably the better option, but for now, I collapsed the sections. Frietjes (talk) 18:29, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
 * or, just delete the whole thing as "way too big" and redundant to Category:Netflix original programming and List of original programs distributed by Netflix. Frietjes (talk) 18:32, 27 January 2017 (UTC)


 * A change might help. On the similiar list for CBS we do not list Gilligan's Island. -Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 18:06, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I vote to split. At least crate navbox just for films (current and upcoming) IndexAccount (talk) 11:47, 9 April 2017 (UTC)