User talk:Arilang1234/Archive 3

公即為漢傢傳人，華夏子民，孫先生擁護者， 何不思光復華夏文明，反認同蒙元滿清為中國耶？ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.204.2.166 (talk) 03:06, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * A translation, for the sake of transparency (nothing against you Arilang: I know you didn't write this):

You are a child of the Huaxia people and a supporter of Mr. Sun Yat-sen: why not consider restoring Huaxia civilization by objecting to recognizing the Mongol Yuan Dynasty and the Manchu Qing Dynasty as "China"?


 * This message was written in classical Chinese to make it more difficult to read for machines or for those whose Chinese is not so good. Anyway, this kind of political motivation for editing would clash directly with the spirit of Wikipedia. Sincere cheers to you, Arilang, for not falling for it. Madalibi (talk) 03:46, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for you complimentary comment Madalibi. Well, according to Hua-Yi distinction, we really have no choice. My argument is, if we reject Mongols and Manchus, and kick them out of the Chinese formula, we should then also kick Tang Dynasty out, because of their Xianpei stock, kick Ming Dynasty out, because they were a bunch of Hui muslim. What have we got left?  Arilang  talk  06:54, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, I DO generally disagree with people who say that the Yuan and Qing dynasties were "China" in the same sense as the Han, Tang, Song, or Ming. The Qing, for example, was much more of a multi-ethnic empire than the Ming, because Manchu rulers governed large regions of their empire in clearly different ways. And depending who they were talking to, the Qing emperors were also Khans of the Mongols, reincarnations of Buddhas, etc. I just don't take this kind of observation in the spirit of "restoring Chinese civilization to its lost grandeur," as the anonymous poster seemed to imply. I wish I had time to integrate all these views on the Qing dynasty wiki... Anyway, talk to you later! Madalibi (talk) 08:04, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * There's no proof that zhu yuanzhang was a muslims, stop slandering people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.83.136.147 (talk) 22:12, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * THe mongol and manchu rulers had no chinese blood. Tang emperors did and so did ming. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.83.136.147 (talk) 22:14, 13 March 2009 (UTC)



Arilang, you said Tang's emperors are Xianbei origin, it's not totally true. I know Li Shiming has Xianbei blood, but only one of his ancestors was Xianbei, and was a matriachal ancestor. okay, if Li Shimin's mother is Xianbei, he is 1/2 xianbei, is his grand-mother is xianbei, li is 1/4 xianbei, 1/8.1/16 and so on. So, li's xianbei origin is minim. You know, a ethnic origin is marked on Y chromosome, so we herited our ethnic origin from our father. Li's father is Han, so in theory, Li is a Han. And you can see Li speak Han language, wear Hanfu, have Han customs... All this told us that we can consider Li is a Han, not really Xianbei.

Zhu Yuanzhang, the first emperor of Ming, is a real Han, not Hui muslim. Zhu is Hui, is only a rumour, certain persons told this because only Zhu has constructed some muslim 'churches' for Hui peoples, according to this logic, you can also say Zhu is a european, because he has also constructed some catholic churches pour europeans who came to China!

I'm a Han, and I'm often disappointed and frustreted when I see some chinese of other ethnic groups insulted Han people by using violent actions and nasty words, and the most of Han don't rebut them. And the gouverment traits us as second-rank people, just because we are numerous. And some Han don't know the real history, they said like, 'our hero Gengis Khan is a great king, blabla...' They ignore that Gengis khan killed so many innocent Han people! I'm not against mongols who like their heros, but for us, he's only a atrocious butcher. And in the history books used by school, they said almost all that mongols et manchus invaders are our heros, and Yue Fei is a flunky who disturbed relations between peoples! Whose fault, dusting the eyes of ignorant Han? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.204.2.166 (talk) 01:52, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I wish you could understand my explanations. (oh, my poor english) 67.204.2.166 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.204.2.166 (talk) 01:33, 14 March 2009 (UTC)


 * My answer is please read Hua-Yi distinction, that is all I can say  Arilang  talk  01:59, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Archives
Fixed it a bit for you. --  李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 10:24, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks again.  Arilang  talk  10:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Hu Jintao is A LOT Better than Wang Mang
He got his position Legitmately. And he ruled a lot better than Wang Mang who wanted to restore feudalism.Teeninvestor (talk) 19:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Hu and others were able to handle the 2008 Sichuan earthquake situation fairly well (although it revealed corruption such as many buildings not being built according to professional standards and thus collapsed). Compare this to Wang Mang's inability to handle the crisis of the flooding of the Yellow River. However, he shouldn't be entirely blamed for this, since he did make efforts to dam the river. In any case, thanks for giving me the link to the article.-- Pericles of Athens  Talk 20:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks to Teen and PoA, it is a very common practice among Chinese historians to compare contemporary rulers with historical rulers, and of course, no rulers would be happy when their names were put alongside killers or mass murderers, which is what Wang Mangs name conveyed. Chinese like to classify the rulers as 仁君 or 暴君, my impression on Wang Mang 王莽 is that he was a killer, a 暴君, am I correct in saying so? Have to sign off for now.  Arilang   talk  23:49, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Wang Mang was not a 暴君. He was a reformer who wanted to restore feudalism of Zhou dynasty. He failed and was kicked out by baixing who restored Han.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:23, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Wang Mang on Baidu Baike
王莽还想借对外战争来缓和国内的矛眉，这一来又引起了匈奴、西域、西南各部族的反对. 王莽又征用民夫，加重捐税，纵容残酷的官吏，对老百姓加重刑罚. 这样，就逼得农民不得不起来反抗.
 * 1) 从历史的惯性来说，胡温之后很可能出现王莽类型的乱世：随着中央权威因丧失公义而衰落，各路想当皇帝的人就会陆续粉末登场，于是中国进入轮回的乱世. I kind of agree with this comment, beside using para-military police to squash all the anti-government protests, the Hu/Wen government do not know how to deal with the people.

In the light of the most recent USA ocean survey ship incident, when Chinese fishing vessels were harassing unarmed USA ships, seems to reflect 借对外战争来缓和国内的矛盾, meaning creating international crisis to cover up domestic troubles, is the real reason and motive behind this Boxun article. May be we shall be seeing a more aggressive China in the near future?  Arilang   talk  12:57, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) The Boxun article using Wang Mang to compare Hu/Wen government, seem to imply that China may be facing popular uprising from the Baixing
 * 2) 由于他看不起边疆藩属，削王为侯，不断挑起对匈奴和东北、西南各族的战争.

I doubt it VERY HEAVILY. If anything, its more likely the US Empire will crumble than the Chinese. Hu/Wen are able rulers. Under them and their successors, following Deng's path, China will eventually be restored to her ancient glory. You may not like the CPC of Mao, but I can assure you the CPC Of Deng is 100X better. Also, note China is the least aggressive of the great powers.Teeninvestor (talk)


 * Oh ya, and you need to go to some neutral forums. Boxun.com is not neutral. In fact, I suspect they may be funded by the US(aka dissidents).Teeninvestor (talk) 20:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

"kind of agree with this comment, beside using para-military police to squash all the anti-government protests, the Hu/Wen government do not know how to deal with the people." At least China isn't in a deflationary spiral + hyperinflation, like much of the west will soon be in. Complaints aside, no Chinese today would think of bearing arms against the government.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:46, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

AfD
What's the best way to counter an AfD? Should I add more English sources to Zhang Ya? --  李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 11:37, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Issues with the CPC
Just wondering what issues do you have with the current CPC that you think are so bad that the CPC will collapse later????

Deng's reforms have improved Chinese lives in this way: 1. China now has the biggest industrial sector in the world. China produces the most ships, cars, steel, and others. 2. Chinese are more prosperous than ever before. Average wage has risen 24k Yuan, inflation is under control. 3. Hu/Wen government has introduced reforms to help the people(Some of which I didn't like very much, but we'll get to that point).

So what's the problem???? Teeninvestor (talk) 20:58, 13 Marc亦h 2009 (UTC)


 * the problem is that the stupid CCP bulldozed the entrances to beijing's underground bunkers, and refuses to build further bunkers and fortifications to protect the chinese people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 23:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

You are too young
185px|thumb|I believe that many CPC CEO have ''secret agenda, not unlike that of Dr. Fu Manchu
 * 1) You may have done a lot of research works on Han, Tang, Song, Yuan history, but how much history of the CPC you have read? The current form of government is a mutant(a mix of Oriental and West), because the real functioning is inside a black box, the decision makers, or CEO, are a bunch of mysterious Dr. Fu Manchu kind of characters. How much do we know of Hu Jintao? Wen Jiabao? Xi Jinping? How much do we know of 太子党? 古語:水能載舟,亦能覆舟, if a regime is hated and fear by it's Baixing, and only use para-military to squash any kind of protest, what will happen if Baixing begin to act like 陳胜吳廣?
 * 2) Under the present form of government, China will never reach Han/Tang glory, because China is lack of Soft Power, because none of it's core,核心, or CEO, are of world leader quality. Back in the ancient time, the whole world went to China to study, to learn, to clone it's system. Now, Teen, you tell me, what has China got to offer to the world? Secret police? Nuclear bombs? Corrupted officials? Polluted air, water, and soil? Millions and millions of workers who are paid US$ 10 per month? poison milk?dead students? The list is very long.  Arilang  talk  22:06, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

China has a lot to offer the world. The world'd biggest factory????? China produces steel, cars, ships, planes, and other things for the world. The world loves CHinese products. That's why they're produced everywhere. -   - And no you cannot get workers in China for $10 USD per month. The average wage for rural workers in China is about 20,000 yuan which is about 3300 USD per year. That's more than 200 USD per month. That's not a lot, but its respectable. -   - "#Under the present form of government, China will never reach Han/Tang glory, because China is lack of Soft Power, because none of it's core,核心, or CEO, are of world leader quality." -   - And you tell me the US, who is going bankrupt and going to hyperinflation on a bullet, has that quality of "world leader". The country who has subsidized its industries for 30 years, whose bullets reduce millions of souls to earth, has that "quality". -   - And besides, with the way CPC is going, China wont have this form of government in 10-20 years. CPC has already allowed elections at county level, and county comissars now directly elect city comissars, and so on. There are some very encouraging developments.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * "if a regime is hated and fear by it's Baixing, and only use para-military to squash any kind of protest, what will happen if Baixing begin to act like 陳胜吳廣? "

I can assure CPC is not nearly as hated as you think. Minyuen is hated much more, for selling out China.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:33, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Arilang, without nuclear bombs, russia and india will find it easy to bully china. and its exactly why hu jintao is so weak of a leader, that he has TOO MUCH soft power and not enough "hard power". even with nukes, the way jiang zemin folded to the russians show how easily they can be bullied. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 23:32, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * @ user 162.84.129.45, you make me laugh! Just look at New Star ship incident, in front of Russians, all the Chinese leaders act like little children, or to be precise, like small pussy cats, mieo mieo mieo.  Arilang  talk  11:02, 31 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Not taking any sides but in regards to this - "And no you cannot get workers in China for $10 USD per month. The average wage for rural workers in China is about 20,000 yuan which is about 3300 USD per year. That's more than 200 USD per month. That's not a lot, but its respectable." Most (not all) things are made in China because they are cheap and fast but what happens when their wages start to rise say at an exponential rate? You can only devalue the yuan so much as well. What happens when said workers start to demand benefits and other worker privileges, as their standard of living increases so do their expectations. This really is a curious question on my behalf.

Please answer my questions one by one
Teen, I still say your China impression is extremely one-sided, or POV, to borrow a wiki term. Now I shall list my questions one by one: Teen, to convince me, or to win me over, you need to present a reasonable answer to all of the above questions. Can you do that?  Arilang  talk  22:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Secret police?
 * 2) Nuclear bombs?
 * 3) Corrupted officials?
 * 4) Polluted air, water, and soil?
 * 5) poison milk?
 * 6) dead students?
 * 7) Black kiln slaves?
 * 8) Illegal harvesting of body organs?
 * 9) Why put Hu Jia in jail?

3-7 is the natural development of capitalism. Evolving a country from agarian roots to industrial superpower is no piece of cake. And besides, most of these are getting better, not worse. West had it worse during their development, I assure.

Hu Jia/secret police is also a natural development. Chinese government's first priority is to maintain order- many countries have collapsed during the transition.

Hu Jia I have no sympthay for. You can complain, but don't collude with foreigners!!!! "Using a web camera, Hu participated in a European parliamentary hearing in Brussels in November 2007 about human rights in China. At the hearing he said: “It is ironic that one of the people in charge of organizing the Olympic Games is the head of the Bureau of Public Security, which is responsible for so many human rights violations. It is very serious that the official promises are not being kept before the games.”[3]" This guy is being a propanganda tool by the Western countries, AGAINST China.

"# Illegal harvesting of body organs?" BS. That is FLG propanganda.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:09, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, your answers are not specific enough, or rather, your answers cannot be called answer, because you are simply avoiding a main issue. What is the main issue? The main issue here still is the relationship between Rulers and the ruled 君 and 民, or 君民关係. In the past,there were very few 仁君, when 仁君 came along, then there was 天下太平 peace under the heaven, everybody happy, because the rulers were 愛民如子. The opposite is 暴君, whose policy is 暴政, they treated people as 草民,蚁民,賤民, and you and me know that, 暴君 would most often got overthrown by the revolting Baixing, if not, they normally would have a lot of ugly words associated with them in the book of history. In fact, Wen Jiabao openly said a few times, he would like to go down in history as a 清官, as is apparent in his quoting of poem:春?到死絲方儘, 蠟燭成灰淚始乾. But no matter how hard he tried, there are accusing fingers pointing at his wife and his son(who were reputed to have changed his name to avoid being detected as Wen's son). Teen, nearly all the communist government officials are heavily corrupted, including the sons of Hu/Wen. This is unprecedented and unheard of in all the Tang, Yuan, Ming Qing history. PRC government would have to be ranked the most corrupted government in the world. PRC officials are like clowns and stooges standing in front of Han/Tang golden eras.  Arilang  talk  00:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

CPC has heavy corruption, but I would argue Late Han, Tang, and Ming were just as corrupt. Remember, none of these dynasties had to deal with the problem that the HUA XIA WERE ACTUALLY BACKWARDS FOR ONCE. Also remember CPC may be corrupt, but so is the west; all their politicians are funded by "campaign contributions" which is just legalized bribery in my opinion. I mean look at GWB and Enron.Also, you forgot Ming was a golden era as well. Anyways, my opinion is that DEVELOPMENT IS RELATIVE. Look at western history from 1800 to 1900 and you will know what I am talking about. The west sure didn't have any qualms in doing things CPC would be overthrown for.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Also, you forget one thing. PRC IS THE ONLY CHANCE CHINA HAS OF REVIVING ITSELF. The last 150-ish years, 350 if you count Manchu Qing dynasty, have been one of the most darkest eras in Chinese history. Only the PRC can take China out of this period. And right now if CPC can survive the challenge of holding a country together, they will be positioned perfectly to overtake other countries after this depression. For the sake of the Huaxia, I would support the PRC.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:56, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I think you are wrong, Teen. CCP do not have the 天命 Mandate of Heaven anymore, soon will be game over. From historical point of view, PRC is 苛政, or 暴政. and soon there will be 官逼民反, there is noway that this PRC shall last very long in its present formation.  Arilang  talk  01:28, 14 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Ahh... sorry to butt in and be all rude... couldn't help but to make a statement. Regarding corruption, back during the 1931-1949 era, the KMT was just as corrupt. I personally view that both the CCP and KMT are neither "the perfect party", however the CCP was the lesser of two evils, to a point. Before the end of the Civil War, the KMT was so corrupt that even Truman had trouble trusting Chiang Kai Shek.

Had Chiang Kai-shek actually fulfilled the San-Min Zhu-Yi (Three Principles of the People)? No. People still lived in poverty. The KMT had the support of the upper class, why should they help the poor? They opposed the CCP becuase they promised land reform for the peasants. Overall, the evils of the KMT outweigh the evils of the CCP. Sure, neither were good, but can you honestly say the KMT were better? They did not reunify China. They gave autonomy to the warlords. The CCP shot all the landlords, on the other hand. The CCP did not introduce democracy, but neither did the KMT. Chiang's regime was still a dictatorship.
 * 1) KMT did little to fight against the invading Japanese. They were more worried in killing communists. They could not place all their effort on the war with Japan; while some generals fought the Imperial Japanese, others openly avoided combat, to "sell space for time", hoping that the Allies would finish Japan so that there were enough men to fight the CCP.
 * 2) The Communists engaged in guerilla warfare against the KMT and Japanese, and did so well, that some US generals questioned the strength of the KMT. The US saw that corrupt KMT officials were selling US-donated weaponry on the black market.
 * 3) The modern view on "reds" and "commies" is due to McCarthyism, this plays a major factor in all our points of view.
 * 4) KMT was supported by the rich, so they helped the rich.
 * 5) CCP introduced Land reform, industrialization measures, reunified China and shot the landlords to their graves, and treated their troops with respect. The KMT army was made of conscripts who were poorly treated and beaten by their officers. The CCP did not maltreat the peasants like the KMT.
 * 6) After nationwide control, yes, there was the Great Leap Forward, and the Cultural Revolution. This was only because of one thing: Mao. Now, I never said that all Chinese loved Mao, did I?
 * 7) Chiang was a dictator, was he not? The ROC only obtained democracy in the early 1990s, and that was in TAIWAN only.
 * 8) KMT was corrupt - during WW2, for every 10 million USD of aid given to purchase weapons from the US, only one million made it into the army as proper weapons. Officers pocketed the money for themselves.
 * 9) "Red" China is now open, rich, and prosperous, is it not? 2nd largest GDP (PPP) in the world, is it not? This is all thanks to the venerable Deng Xiaoping.
 * 10) Think about it. If Sun Yat-Sen were alive today, would he rather see a dictatorship under Chiang? I'd doubt that, if the KMT had won the war, that Greater China would be democratic today. Taiwan is small and naturally rich, it would be much more difficult even for the KMT after 100 or even 200 years to introduce democracy in all of China. There is a vast countryside of poverty. With poverty comes hardship, with hardship comes corruption. With area comes military might.

What happened later, on the other hand, was the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, which completely ruined China. However this happened much afterwards, after the era of KMT/CCP struggle. Not forgetting the White Terrors of the KMT on Taiwan, such as the 228 Incident, the KMT still clung to their authoritarian ways.

My conclusion: The death of Sun Yat-sen resulted in the harsh reign of Chiang Kai-shek, destroying the people of China. The rule of Mao over the CCP caused economic and social destruction. If Sun had never died, China probably would have never been on its knees as a Republic. Probably. Sun Yat Sen loved China, we can all see that, for he wrote the San Min Zhu Yi and was concerned with the plight of the people. Chiang didn't give a damn about the people, Mao never gave a damn about proper governance. Now, regarding the modern era, can you honestly state that you are absolutely sure that the KMT would do a better job? --  李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 12:46, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

@李博杰, I think it is wrong to talk about what if, it is useless, and pointless, since nobody can go back in time and wind back the clock. That said, we should all look to the future, and try to guess what future historians might write about 21 century Chinese history, and try to guess what kind of yard sticks, or norm, the future historians might use. For me, if I am still alive, say 100 years from now, I would use 孟子 as my norm, my yard stick.
 * 1) 民为贵，社稷次之，君为轻 Translation:Baixing is paramount, is top; the country, or the society, come second; rulers, King or emperor, come last. If I am to put forward this question to Hu/Wen during their internet video chat, I seriously doubt that I would get an answer.  Arilang  talk  13:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

name one period in last 350 years better than current period & one leader better than deng xiaoping
Arilang, Name ONCE in the past 350 years of Chinese history that is better than now. Name ONCE. NAME ONE RULER THAT WAS BETTER THAN DENG in the last 350 years. Tell me Who will overthrow the CPC???? The workers whose wages rise day by day??? the capitalists who just earned their wealth due to CPC???? the students whose education is subsidized by the CPC???. NO CHINESE, IN HIS SANE MIND, would choose an american-dominated Mingyuen government over the CPC! Unless you want to hand all of China's freedom and wealth to the anglo-saxons, go ahead, try to overthrow the CPC. Thanks to Deng Xiaoping, CHina is now a major power and back to recovery. That is supported by every worthy Chinese. The first duty of every Chinese as a citizen is to hope for the motherland.

As to KMT's point I believe Chiang might have ruled better but since CPC won, we should stick with it. Under the venerable Deng Xiaoping, CPC has changed to a good government(compared to Manchu, Republic, and Mao).Teeninvestor (talk) 23:25, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Tragedy portrayed in folk song 鐵石心腸
@Teen, when I was listening to this song, tears just would not stop surging out, possibly this is the saddest, and hopeless song I ever heard, so I decided to do a translation. You know what, I could not stop weeping while I was working on it. 1994 Karamay fire

A popular Chinese folk singer (周雲蓬) has compiled a list of Chinese man-made disasters and turned it into a song, and the Karamay fire incident was mentioned in the song, so was the internet catch phrase: 讓領導先走 (translit. Let the leaders walk out first.)

不要做中國人的孩子 不要做克拉瑪依的孩子，火燒痛皮膚讓親娘心焦 不要做沙蘭鎮的孩子，水底下漆黑他睡不著 不要做成都人的孩子，吸毒的媽媽七天七夜不回家 不要做河南人的孩子，愛滋病在血液裡哈哈的笑 不要做山西人的孩子，爸爸變成了一筐煤，你別再想見到他 不要做中國人的孩子，餓極了他們會把你吃掉 還不如曠野中的老山羊，為保護小羊而目露兇光 不要做中國人的孩子，爸爸媽媽都是些怯懦的人 為證明他們的鐵石心腸，死到臨頭讓領導先走

English translation: <p style="text-indent:150px">Don't want to be Chinese's children Don't want to be the children of Karamay, the fire that burn their skin also scorch mother's heart Don't want to be Salan town's children, under the water so dark, he can't sleep Don't want to be the children of Chendu, drug addicted mother seven days seven nights no come home Don't want to be Henanese's chidren, HIV virus is laughing HaHaHa in his blood Don't want to be Shanxi's children, father's body is covered by black coal dust Don't want to be Chinese's children, you will be turned into food during famine Even old goats in the wild, will send eyes of staggers when their young were being hurt Don't want to be Chinese's children, Papa Mama are a bunch of cowards With heart made of iron and stone, shouting let the leaders walk out first when their children were burnt alive.

In Chinese:盲人歌手周雲蓬《不要做中國人的孩子》Translation:Chinese folk song:Don't want to be Chinese's children

The west went through the same thing durign development
???? West is not exactly perfect. Drugs and AIDS is much more prelevant there. Government taxes are so much more heavy than China. Corporations regularly make the people pay money into their pockets. THe money supply is privatized.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:31, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Arilang1234, I think your fundamental problem is that you don't realize all comparisons are RELATIVE. YES PRIMITIVE ACCUMULATION OF CAPITALISM IS BAD. BUT EVERYONE HAS TO GO THROUGH IT. IT is like you have cancer. You don't want to go through chemotherpay. But you have to, or else you die. Which one is better????Teeninvestor (talk) 23:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, please cool down, you seems to be working for the China Ministry of propanganda. What is wrong with you?

 <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  01:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources
 * 2) Wiki editors should stick to NPOV
 * 3) Wiki editors should be like 司馬遷
 * 4) 《孟子·滕文公下》：富貴不能淫，貧賤不能移，威武不能屈，此之謂大丈夫, Teen, I may not be 大丈夫, but at least I would try to be one.
 * 5) 战国时代的孟子，有几句很好的话：“富贵不能淫，贫贱不能移，威武不能屈，此之谓大丈夫. ”意思是说，高官厚禄收买不了，贫穷困苦折磨不了，强暴武力威胁 不了，这就是所谓大丈夫. 大丈夫的这种种行为，表现出了英雄气概，我们今天就叫做有骨气. http://zhidao.baidu.com /question/15926049.html

For readers who cannot read Chinese

 * 富贵不能淫 Translation:When I am rich and famous, I would still keep my conduct clean.
 * 贫贱不能移 Translation:When I am down and out, I would still keep my principle.
 * 威武不能屈 Translation:When I am facing brute force, I would not bend down and kiss ass. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  03:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

王何必曰利？亦有仁義而已矣.
《孟子》 梁惠王章句上·第一章 孟子见梁惠王. 王曰，「叟，不远千里而来，亦将有以利吾国乎？」 孟子对曰，「王何必曰利？亦有仁义而已矣. 」

@Teen, I know you are angry, but you need to cool down first. 仁義道德 is the fundamental of any Han Chinese society. When Chinese society disregard 仁義道德, according to Hua-Yi distinction, the whole society would become Barbarian, the obvious explanation is that Chinese society is not governed by Rule of law, because Chinese society do not have Ten Commandments, until the Han Chinese culture incorporate the western idea Rule of law into it's core value, Chinese society would simply turn into a barbarian society, regardless of who the rulers were, CCP or KMT, or even the Pope of Vetican, is of no use. I am not particularly pro-KMT or pro-CCP, I am using 仁義道德 as a yardstick, as simple as that. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  04:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

CPC Propanganda???
Terribly ineffective in China. In fact, none of us here on wikipedia love the CPC, you should realize that. But What will replace the CPC??? you tell me. Would you rather guys like Liu Xiaobo, who don't have 1/30 of Deng's skill and who want China to go through "colonizatioN" to be in charge???Teeninvestor (talk) 15:49, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

仁義道德 & rule of law is much more respected in China than west. Yes, invading Iraq is rule of law. Taking the Americas/killing all of its population is rule of law. Shipping OPIUM to China is rule of law. Burning all Roman books(Christianity's greatest feat) is rule of law. As far as I can see, Westerners need rule of law just as much, if not more. YOu still haven't answered my question. What will replace CPC???? Will China not be world superpower, when it has largest GDP & most competitive industries??? Is that not what China is aiming for???? Basically, what part of China as of now is worse than West was during the industrial revolution???Teeninvestor (talk) 15:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

"Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources Wiki editors should stick to NPOV " Exactly. Then please show me why you think rule of law & ten commandants is more beneficial to Chinese& Chinese are now "barbarians".Teeninvestor (talk) 15:59, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Love for the PRC does not necessarily equate to love for the CCP. One can support China and not be a communist. Personally, my heritage is from Beijing. I am usually seen as the "typical Northerner", I've come across southerners complaining about my Northeastern accent. Northerners are stereotypically loud, aggressive, and, for some reason, stereotypically communist. In the eyes of many Hongkongers that is all we are, however, I never stated that I was a "red" in the first place (I am not, anyway). I don't see that supporting the PRC instantly makes you a cheerleader or a propaganda machine of communism. -- <font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;"> 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 05:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Should put PRC, Qing Dynasty Ming, Song, Yuan on the same platform
Teen, I know the West had done heaps of terrible things to others, but it is a very poor excuse to be used to justify whatever mistakes, or social evils, that are being created onto Chinese society in general. And these social evils are created by Super Greed (暴利), or Super Profit. To me, this is one of the main cause of majority of the China's social evil.
 * 1) Historians when talking, or writing about Qing Ming Song Yuan, would simply say which emperor say what or did what, and the consequence was what and what. I have yet to read proper history books, which are written just to find excuses for some emperors, to justify whatever evil things they did, saying it's OK, some body else did more nasty things. We are not that nasty yet.
 * 2) When doing comparison between Yuan, Ming, Qing, we not only focus on nasty things, we should also focus on Good things. Just read all the articles written by PoA, all those featured articles. Nearly 100% of the content is about the Good of the Han Chinese culture. Now, PoA is a Westerner, a bright American university student, who will be a great sinologist, give him some time. Souldn't you learn something from him?
 * 3) I know for 350 years China had suffered a lot, but the backwardness was not caused by the West, to be fair. Not even by Qing Dynasty, as proposed by you and your internet blogging friends. Some historians point the fingers at Confucianism, I kind of agree with this kind of explanation. For example:劳心者治人,劳力者治於人, basically, the people is being divided into 2 classes: the rulers and those being ruled. Another example is 成王敗寇, an extreme form of them and us.
 * 4) We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang   talk  16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Can you find a way to skip this stage???
There's something called Capitalism, remember??? Put it this way. Can you find a way to skip this stage."We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)"

This is the solution. Its called free market capitalism.Teeninvestor (talk) 19:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

"Now, as children of Hua Xia, shouldn't we feel sad about the children of children of poorer Chinese, who have no choice but to stay back to live among all those poison, after all, they are just like us, children of Hua Xia. "

Well, I'm sorry. But the point is, its better than starvation(which would be the result of their unemployment).Oh ya, and please read Du Zhebie's stuff and you realize what I am talking about. Qing/Mao is two causes of China's Backwardness. I would rather have some social problems than starve(which is the ultimate evil)Teeninvestor (talk) 19:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

The evil of Super Profit 暴利
Teen, please check E-waste village, an article I created. Now, you and me, plus other editors, we all live happily(hopefully) in the West, in a relatively cleaner enviorment. Now, as children of Hua Xia, shouldn't we feel sad about the children of children of poorer Chinese, who have no choice but to stay back to live among all those poison, after all, they are just like us, children of Hua Xia. 孟子:人皆有側隱之心. Teen, where is you 側隱之心? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  17:25, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

"Now, you and me, plus other editors, we all live happily(hopefully) in the West, in a relatively cleaner enviorment. " I live in the west but my relatives in China, as far as I can see, is not less comfortable.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

@Teen, whatever system, or political agenda you believe in, 民为贵，社稷次之，君为轻 remains my motto. I hope you will agree with me one day. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  20:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

That's exactly why we must have free-market capitalism, as Deng Xiaoping has instituted.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

@Arilang, i suggest you try cleaning up every piece of grabadge in china. you should blame it on the people who are picking up the e waste and melting them down. those villagers are as stupid as they were 500 years ago, blame everything on heaven, and got lead poisoned.

@teeninvestor, free market capitalism blows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 22:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

First you call me a communist and now this. The point is, guys, you have to go through this "five-year old coal miners, lead poisoning" stage to get to the fruit of developed capitalism. That will be the Hua Xia's destiny. i am confident when historians look back they will say "Oh, Qing and after was just a tiny dark age of China's history(like North & south dynasties) and Deng Xiaoping revived Hua Xia, now its great again."Teeninvestor (talk) 23:00, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of E-waste village
I have nominated E-waste village, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/E-waste village. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Killiondude (talk) 09:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Warning
stop pushing pro cantonese POV. cantonese are not the "only" chinese descended from the "oiriginal" han people. Min-nan, wenzhou, xian, other dialects have even closer connection to middle chinese than cantonese, and are ethnically closer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 22:55, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Inner Asia during the Tang dynasty
Tag team of biased editors trying to delete the article. Please take a look and help me argue them off.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:20, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the invitation Teen, I would try to understand the cause of the problem then I will help you. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  00:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Mediation

 * I plan to withdraw from WP:3RR because it is ineffective and no uninvolved editor has shown the willingness and temerity in wading into this escalating dispute.


 * Instead, the dispute resolution processes of formal mediation are necessary. If that fails, the resort to arbitration may prove helpful.


 * We appear to confront a small scale replica of what has occurred in other, wider disputes. In my view, the the words and actions of what Teeninvestor wrongly characterizes as a "tag team" have been consistently informed by a four-prong examination at each and every point of this escalating drama:
 * 1. What is the quality of the sources used by both sides in the dispute?
 * 2. What is the consensus of scholars in the field; and does the source reflect that consensus?
 * 3. Are the sources actually supporting the assertions for which they are cited?
 * 4. Are unsourced assertions being used?
 * As others will know better than me, these four points are, unsurprisingly, at the center of most protracted disputes and are all violations of our core content policies, e.g., verifiability, no original research and neutrality.


 * As I see it, your participation has not been reliably focused on aspects of Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty which would lead to a stable, credible article.


 * What seems to be missing is a method by which a determination on whether content policies are being followed can be made authoritatively. Mediation may help resolve the issues which mark this minor article as a battlefield. --Tenmei (talk) 15:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

This guy is out of control, man.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


 * The mediation process is explained at WP:Mediation. I will initiate the process at Requests for mediation.  As you may know, your participation is voluntary; and in fact, you can thwart the process by refusing to agree to mediation or by withdrawing at any point afterwards.  If you prefer, I will not include your name in this reasonable next step. --Tenmei (talk) 15:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Tenmei is out of control. He filed for WP:ARBRITRATION in an attempt to one-up me. Can you help me?Teeninvestor (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

What is WP:ARBRITRATION?
I shall be quite busy in real life for the next few days, so could not afford to be on-line for long time, please explain the argument to me. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  01:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC) Just go to the link I provide here: You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Arbitration/Requests/Case and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.

Thanks, and make your comments about inner asia during the Tang dynasty. Tenmei is out of control; he hopes high-level wikipedia admins can help him revive his cause. Your statement, I'm sure, will clear up the matter.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Good News!
User:Teeninvestor/sandbox/Economic history of China is almost complete. We finished all premodern sections except Han, Song and Qing which Madalibi and Pericles Agreed to do. Why not take a look?Teeninvestor (talk) 11:18, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Also, Ran Min article shows why he had to kill all the Hu in that era. Teeninvestor (talk) 11:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

By the way, some more good news- Chinese auto production is scheduled to surpass American this year. If this comes true, this will join ships, steel and other commodities in which China now produces several times. China's steel prdocution is 5X that of US.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Government
Government of the Han Dynasty. Check it out.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 08:07, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Plasma Economy
The bbc article clearly blames the removal of socialism (effectively, communism), for the massive corruption and AIDS epidemic in Henan. seeing as your anti communist, you are owning yourself with the article!

Wow, This is such a biased article. Arilang1234, please correct the POV and bias in this article. What, so we need to reverse Deng's reforms and have socialism?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Teen for removing the biased comment from the article. Though I 100% agree with Deng's reform and the open door policy, but still we cannot ignore problems such as E-waste village, because the home of Hua Xia is damaged beyond repair, then Han civilization will be baseless, and Han Chinese will be homeless, which is a very serious consequence. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang   talk  01:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

AIDS epidemic is caused by capitalist reforms and open door policy
{removed} troll nonsense. Hope you don't mind.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:00, 24 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Editors using one BBC article to prove that communism is good for China, whereas I can show you thousands of articles to prove that communism is bad for China. And stop using child like logic:"Arilang clearly wants all chinese to die of AIDS by removing communism." Don't make me laugh. And don't forget, Arilang is also a Chinese. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  17:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Teen for your support. But may be it is against wiki rule to remove comments on talk page, please check. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  03:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Hello
Thanks for sharing these articles. I just took the time to read all three, so I apologize for putting them off until now. It took much longer for me to read the Chinese language ones (about an hour), as I am still only a 3rd-year speaker. Lol. As for Wang's article, he only allows enough space to mention sweeping generalizations about CCP's goals and their connection to policies of previous Chinese regimes. His overall point that the current CCP wants to build a safe, harmonious state (as opposed to an unsafe, discordant state? lol!) like those in the past should be a given, along with the global demands placed on China (another obvious point). Maybe if he allowed himself to write a larger article, then he could better explain himself; otherwise, it's just sweeping generalizations.

Oh, and by the way, check out the main page for Han Dynasty.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 15:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Another great article this Han Dynasty. May be a bit more elabolation of Soft power of the Han/Tang golden age? Or little bit of comparison between Han Dynasty and other civilizations/empires of those times? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  20:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm...I don't think there is sufficient enough space allowed in wiki articles such as the main Han Dynasty article to make any coherent or well-thought analysis of its similarities to later dynasties like Tang or to other civilizations. There is that Comparison between Han and Rome article that Teeninvestor worked very hard on. I'll at least provide a link to that in the main Han article. I think your suggestion is a good one for another article altogether, but Han Dynasty as it stands is perhaps large enough. Although I like to "democratize" and disseminate knowledge to all through a medium like Wiki, I'm tired of doing so much work and research for Wikipedia! Lol. I think I've given the laymen's world a most expansive contribution of scholarly knowledge for the ages. I'll continue to edit Wiki, but I don't think I'll ever tackle a subject as large as an entire dynasty ever again. Hopefully someone else can pick up the ball where I left off and rewrite Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty, etc.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 20:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, your hard earned royal title Tian Kehan does not come easy, that is for sure. Jokes aside, my humble request is to leave Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty to other editors, what about a complete rewrite of Qing Dynasty, tilt just a little bit more towards the conflict and tension between the rulers(Manchus) and the be-ruled(Han Chinese)? I think Teeninvestor will be happy to work alongside you on this project? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I could tidy it up a bit, but to be honest, tackling another dynasty article would be very time-consuming, and these days I shouldn't be wasting so much time on Wiki.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 01:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I do agree with you, there are more important things in life beside wiki editing. The problem of Qing at the moment is too much info on the ruler side, nearly nothing on the be-ruled side. But then there is no hurry, just take it easy. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  03:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

You can outdo Wang
@PoA
 * 1) If you have read up the 君臣父子 relationship used by all the past empire states rulers, you probably would have found out that 君臣父子 is the basic 儒家 ideology used to maintain effective management of the relationship between the rulers and the be-ruled. Any Chinese regime, if it abandoned this basic rule, would have a hard time trying to achieve harmonious state.
 * Yes, we had a conversation about this before, including the very dark side of this type of rule. Then again, that goes with the territory (i.e. near absolute rule by one individual).-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)


 * 1) Without Soft power, the 大國 dream will just be a dream .The Han/Tang Golden Age 漢唐盛世 was much more than the sum of military might plus the total amount of silver(or gold) <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  19:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. One can continually bully and batter other states into submission or to raid their stores of supplies, but this eventually drains one's own resources and leads to decline, or worse, demise. There is a wealth of good examples where Han, Tang, Song, etc. mastered the art of diplomacy for the benefit of China, but just as many examples where this was lacking.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Economics is the basis of everything. As long as China has economic/military strength, along with cultural cohesion, she'll do fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


 * @Teen


 * 1) I have made a suggestion to PoA, you and him together do something to Qing, add a bit more info on the conflict between Manchu and Han Chinese, what do you think?
 * 2) On the subject of reviving the Han/Tang Golden age, please have a look at Soft power. Do you think a super-super-power can do without a Soft power? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  01:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Article comparing Mao to Yongzheng.
I find it a bit interesting, however, I must put out some similiarities and differences. Mao was insane, crazy for power. He just wanted power. He wasn't a real communist, or socialist. He wanted to be emperor and supreme ruler. And when Deng, Liu Shaoqi saw communism wasn't working, wanted to start reforms, Mao launched Cultural revolution just to seize power. He didn't care about the country's development; he just wanted to seize power.

This is similar to Manchu Emperors- they didn't care about China. They cared only about their own thrones/Manchu exploition, so they stagnated China. In this way they are similar. However, Manchu did not go to extremes of Mao to keep on power(and good for China they didnt).

The key thing, I think ancient Chinese were in some ways better then they are now. Modern Hua Xia should not think all ancients are fools, like what Bo Yang thinks. people should not think they know everything; for example, those students in 1989 thought they knew everything and Deng Xiaoping was old, senile. It turns out they were wrong.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

@Teen, I am glad you do like this article. May be we write a wiki based on this theme? Like I have said before, the 文字獄 cases, every single case should be developed into a wiki. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  20:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can find at least one other article which makes the exact same comparison, then the creation of an article might be warranted. Remember, in order to create an article, something has to be given significant attention first by either credible scholars or mainstream media sources.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 20:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Comparison of Mao to past emperors
@PoA, that is not a problem, Mao himself did mention many past emperors, and even wrote poems to compare himself with big name emperors such as 唐太宗, 漢武帝.

北国风光，千里冰封，万里雪飘. 望长城内外，惟余莽莽；大河上下，顿失滔滔. 山舞银蛇，原驰蜡象，欲与天公试比高. 须晴日，看红妆素裹，分外妖娆. 江山如此多娇，引无数英雄竞折腰. 惜秦皇汉武，略输文采；唐宗宋祖，稍逊风骚. 一代天骄，成吉思汗，只识弯弓射大雕. 俱往矣，数风流人物，还看今朝. ——毛泽东《沁园春·雪》

秦 皇汉武，略输文采 Mao commented on 秦始皇 and 汉武帝, saying that they could not write poems like Mao did, in fact a lot of Mao's poems were co-written with other writers.

唐宗宋祖，稍逊风骚. 风骚 is very difficult to translate, is actually a low kind of words, mainly used to describe sexy or loose kind of females. Mao used 风骚 on 唐太宗 Tian Kehan 宋太祖 is very inappropiate.

成吉思汗，只识弯弓射大雕 Mao said 成吉思汗 only knows how to shoot arrows, shows that Mao was both arrogant and igorant, 成吉思汗 was ten times better than Mao in the conquest of the Mongol empire.

Many be we can use this famous Mao poem as the basic of a new wiki, then elabolate into the comparison of Mao and various Manchu emperors? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

@PoA, the author of the Boxun article 毛泽东的“文革”取法于雍正的“文字狱”/刘梦溪 is infact a big name Chinese scholar 刘梦溪, in this case the comparison of Mao article may be have a better chance to stand on it's own? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  21:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Confucianism responsible for China's decline?
I've heard this theory on websites, however I dont think its true. From the perspective of businessmen(pre-Qing) China is a way better place than Europe; its more developed, and the philosophy of Chinese is very reasonable. on the other hand, the religion of hte west, Christianity, was very anti-usury and very irrational. So I disagree with this theory.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:28, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

@Teen, one of the dark side of Con teaching is 君欲臣死, 臣不得不死;父欲子亡, 子不得不亡. This saying was used especially by Manchu rulers to kill people. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Joel Fitzgibbon article
Please do not add speculative and potentially defamatory content to Wikipedia like you did in this article. Nick-D (talk) 06:58, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've just reverted your addition of further innuendo about Ms Liu. You additions to this article are clear violations of WP:BLP as they are cherry-pick selected negative claims about her and you will be blocked if they continue. Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I know you are admin, but do not abuse your power, as there are other admins around, and you are not the only one. That aside, please answer my question: when major media can report Ms Liu's connections with high Chinese government officials, why not wikipedia? Or are you treating wikipedia as your personal blog? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  08:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

@ Nick-D, please discuss at Joel Fitzgibbon talk page because that seems to be the right place. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  09:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text  below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first.

Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
Hi. Since you are currently blocked, I'm duplicating my response to you here. I'll be watchlisting your talk page, in case you'd like to discuss the matter further. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:33, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.


 * General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.


 * When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)


 * I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


 * @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.


 * 1) I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
 * 2) I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
 * 3) I will not try to  restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
 * 4) I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang   talk  13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)


 * What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty
An Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Hello again
In regards to Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國, I'll see what I can do. :) Right now I'm answering interview questions for the Wikipedia Signpost (Wiki's own newspaper), but I'll get on this as soon as I can, and as soon as I gather sources for it.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 00:54, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
 * 1) Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
 * 2) PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
 * 3) PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping
 * 4) PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization. It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

我操！！！
Articles for deletion/Baidu 10 Mythical Creatures -- <font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;"> 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Helen Liu
I suggest you create the page, and if people want to bring up WP:ONEEVENT for a reason for deletion through AfD they will have a hard time proving it. It seems clear there is enough reliable sources for her, and it seems clear (to me) that she meets WP:BIO which is the only guideline a BLP needs to meet for WP:N. — <i style="color:#6600FF;">raeky</i> ( talk 15:36, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. <em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS Italic;"> Wacko Jack <strong style="color:#D2B48C;">O   14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Notability.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits. That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Roving ambassador

 * PoA,


 * 1) I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
 * 2) I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
 * 3) At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
 * PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!
please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC) User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.

Thank you. I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): : "The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining."Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
 * Han- 25%
 * Tang- 27%
 * Song- 50%+
 * Ming- 31%
 * Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
 * ROC(1913)- 9%
 * ROC(1949)- 5%
 * PRC(1959)- 6-7%
 * PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
 * PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)

70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

New article finished
Naming Laws in the People's Republic of China please check, thanks. -- <font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;"> 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

New section Anti-Korean sentiment created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- <font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;"> 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Classical Chinese
Found it interesting updating/editing these. Perhaps you should try? -- <font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;"> 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
 * http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
 * http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4

Classical Chinese grammar
Created new article. -- <font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;"> 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Plasma Economy round 2
I saw this in your edit summary: "The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)". What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

List of offenses
Hah! It looks like it could be promising, once you've compiled the list. However, don't forget to name the exact names of scholars or credible commentators who say that the QUOTE: "People's Republic of China judicial system, can be described as harsh and brutal when compared to the Western judicial system." For any statements like these, you definitely need citations on who holds such an opinion (preferably someone who is a renowned authority on law in the People's Republic). Ah, "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), that phrase tickles me into laughter. :) Cheers.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 16:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire

User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
Interesting concept for an article. It's a controversial topic and something that will probably become a target for POV-pushing and vandalism, so I will definitely try to help out with maintaining it. By the way, a few months ago I worked extensively on the Re-education through labor article, so you might find some useful info and sources there (if RTL falls under "jail terms" as defined in your own article...and even if it doesn't, some of the sources in that article, like the US Department of State one, also cover laogai and other detention systems). Laogai is still on my long-term to-do list, but I haven't had time to do any major editing there yet. <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 17:57, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

"vague accusations such as 'anti-revolution' (反革命), 'capitalist roader' (走資本主義路線), 'running dog of the imperialist ' (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad."

First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

"I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again"

Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
 Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude ( talk ) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it.  Thanks...  ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I moved the discussion of the image to Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude  ( talk ) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Fair use non free law?
User Ttonybl, what about Fair use, isn't cover the use of the image? And user Skier Dude is a admin, may be we ask his advice. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang   talk  15:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Junmin Shenfenzheng
You can kinda guess. I've had plenty of free time lately to write, write, write. -- <font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;"> 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 14:52, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * What about Sun Dongdong, Tianchao Daguo, your don't like these kind of titles? User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China would be also very interesting, if more content is added.

 <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  15:10, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

File:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Skier Dude ( talk ) 20:54, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Han Dynasty is featured
Check out Han Dynasty now. It is a featured article (notice the bronze star at the top right corner of the article? Plus, look at the talk page). This is great news! Soon enough, you might see Han Dynasty on Wikipedia's main page.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 19:14, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

我虽死去
Thanks for informing me about this video, but please be careful about posting it across multiple user's talk pages; some people might consider that spam. It's one thing to inform people at a specific article of a new source that they might find useful for improving the article, but posting a video to this many people just seems like promotion. Thanks, <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 09:41, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your comment, I only post it on the talk page of editors who have regular communication with me.  <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  10:16, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Cultural revolution is shame of China, courtesy of Mao. He is worst Chinese ruler(if you do not count Manchus, Mongols, and Wu Hu). One of Deng's greatest actions is to undo cultural revolution's damage(plus make China a free market economy, even more so than west). It's pretty amazing how fast the Hua Xia recovered from Mao's destruction, which rivalled Manchu book-burning and Mongol rule.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:05, 30 April 2009 (UTC)


 * By the way, are you going to testify against Tenmei's bad behaviour and edit-warring(removing sourced material) at this page Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Look how many people have testified against Tenmei, showing how much damage he has done. Just talk about his conduct at Tang dynasty and removing sourced materials.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:08, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

List of offences that attract jail terms in China
You may want to narrow it to "list of political offences that attract jail terms" as it doesn't seem like you want to document murder, rape, etc... Also, I moved several of the sections dealing with counter-revolution to the right section(they were under class enemy).

I have dealt with some of the POV statements in the article("Communist government", for example; China's more free market now) and removed a lot of the bias, corrected errors. It looks okay now; I think we can take out a lot fo the tags.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:49, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

How come the falun gong link is there? Falun gong is a cult(and its leader is in bed with CIA),so persecution of them is not really "political persecution". Teeninvestor (talk) 01:12, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks Teen, do you like the article Nucai ? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  03:30, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

It looks okay to me.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:55, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

GDP Figures for China(as share of world)
Chinese ancient GDP Figures are much higher than stated, due to higher agricultural productivity not being taken into account. For example, I think you would be surprised to know that the Seed drill, iron plow, and intesnive cultivation were all used by Chinese since Han dynasty, while not adopted in Europe until the 18th century. Chinese agricultural output was miles ahead of others, along with industrial output. Too bad the Little Ice Age hit at the wrong time and the Manchus conquered China. (Song's bad military policy also contributed).Teeninvestor (talk) 23:58, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * In future history, I think PRC will be viewed as a period of recovery for Hua Xia, just like Sui Wen Ti and Zhu Yuanzhang.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:02, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, Sorry for not being able to reply sooner, my computer was down for a few days, hopefully OK before weekend. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  07:33, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Black jails
Re: User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Black jails You might wish to consult China Human Rights Defenders' reports on black jails from 2008 and 2007. Lawyer Xu Zhiyong also had coverage (in translation here and here) on his trip to a Beijing black jail. (Wish I had more time to devote to wiki right now to help.. 2009 is a busy year at work and our research and translation work is insane. hope to be more active again soon!) L talk 03:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks Alainna for your info. I still think the Letters and Visits should use the Chinese pingyin Xinfang, because the name Letters and Visits is very odd, to say the least. What you think? Let me know what you think of Nucai, I think it shall look good if expanded properly. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  05:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It should be Petitioning, which is what it is commonly called in English, rather than either Letters and Visits or Xinfang. L talk 03:08, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, nucai would be better off being a part of the Jackie Chan article or a wiktionary article, IMHO.... L talk 03:10, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I would disagree with you on Nucai, I think it can be expanded into a much broader article. Just watch the CCTV Manchu dramas, you can see so many Nucai abound. Also 奴才思想 is very deep among Confucius educated people, because it originated from 忠君思想, and 奴才 would be the most loyal person, that is why all Chinese rulers loved Nucai. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  03:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, NuCai is loved by Manchu. Remember, you even sent me an article talking about all the ways Manchus love NuCai. IT is not something that Chinese like. For example, Ming officials definitely are not NuCai. 奴才思想 does not exist in Chinese history except in Qing. Confucianism was high on loyalty, but I would argue Confucianism was an anti-authoritorian ideology(Ming and Song, confucianism's height had emperors were very weak). Confucianism wanted a good emperor who would rule the people well. Teeninvestor (talk) 19:34, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Teen:

Manchu love to have Nucai, because Manchu/Jurchen was not far from slave society, the proof is in these terms: Booi aha, booi niru, Booi guanlin, Booi amban.

Slavery in seventeenth-century China

Pamela Kyle Crossley wrote in her book, Orphan Warriors, "The Mongol is the slave of his sovereign. He is never free. His sovereign is his benefactor; [the Mongol] does not serve him for money." This Mongolian traditional model of slave to owner was taken up by the Manchu during the development of Eight Banner Army."

Crossley gave the definition of Manchu: "A Manchu was, moreover, a man who used his skills exclusively to serve the sovereign....banners as institutions were derived from Turkic and Mongolian forms of military servitude, all enrolled under the banners considered themselves slaves of the emperor and called themselves so(aha, Chinese:奴才, pinyin:nucai) when addressing him..."

In fact, many Chinese internet bloggers(including 杜車别) stated that during the 260 years of Manchu rule, Han Chinese were just slaves of the barbaric nomads/pig farmers. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  22:41, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Harry Wu
The Minyun just shows it is a dog of the Americans;see this article: http://club.backchina.com/main/viewthread.php?tid=764543. It is shameful how shameless and traitorous these men are to the Hua Xia, and how much of a loyal dog they are to the Americans. If the Minyun relied on themselves, then they could be respected for some of their ideas. But if they sell out China to get money from their masters, then they deserve no respect.

I respect many people who believed CPC should have been gotten rid of in 1989(because China was very backwards then, but the last 20 years have proved Deng Xiaoping is right and they are wrong. Teeninvestor (talk) 17:34, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Teen, are you sure Harry Wu is not 冤枉? Another thing, we should not hate USA so much, remember Russia had done greater damage to Huaxia. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  17:53, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Russia is not really a threat(Russian economic capacity is only about a quarter of China. If CHina is to become a superpower the Anglo-Saxons are the first to oppose it. If you invested in the US stock market like me, you will know how crooked that country is. First of all, check out this Plunge Protection Team. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:01, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * International finance is beyound me, there are too many highly speciallised terms which are too difficult to understand. That said, I thought Ronald Reagan was the most respected USA president? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  23:56, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

And they call China socialist. China is the true free market country here.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:58, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Use of "dictator" in People's Republic of China
I believe you should disengage from this for now. People's Democratic dicatorship is a marxist term, and is outdated in regard to modern China.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:05, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Are you sure? Who in the world would invent such a term? It reminds me of a dish called Bomb Alaska, when ice cream was mixed with alcohol and then everything is burned in flame. That said, this term is still written in the Chinese constitution, why it is out of date? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  00:14, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Quote:Furthermore, the single-party system is heavily associated with dictatorship. As there is only one party, political power tends to be concentrated solely within the ruling party. As a result it is usually easy for the party in power to disregard previous laws or the constitution of the state, creating a dictatorship consisting of the party.Unquoted

Single-party state <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  00:34, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletariat" see this article for more details.Teeninvestor (talk) 02:33, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, China adopt Free for all on the economic front, but the political infrastructure remains mostly unchange since Mao's time, many internet bloggers begin to compare the similarity between present China and Nazi Germany under Hiltler, as both regime advocate ultra-nationalism. If this kind of trend just go on and on, it is no good for Huaxia, what you think? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  02:59, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily; the current Chinese situation is very different from Germany. In Nazi Germany, the government engaged in many campaigns(like Maoist era, where they had great leap forward, crush counterrevolutionaries, etc....) which interfered in society. Today's CPC is largely non-interfering in economy and society. The current nationalism is grassroots rediscovered pride in the Huaxia culture, not in any way inspired from the government. This is due to CHina's massive achievements under Deng Xiaoping.Teeninvestor (talk) 13:46, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, Hu Jintao is no Deng, and God knows who would be the next China's Paramount leader, everything will be different again. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  14:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hu is no Deng, but he's nept enough to keep on the right course. By now, China's leaders do not have enough power so that they can fundamentally change the system, like Mao or Deng.

If there's no mistake, China's next paramount leader should be Xi Jinping.

And besides, right now China's a lot better managed than the kleptocracy that is the United Socialist States of Goldman Sachs Teeninvestor (talk) 14:15, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Confused
Replied.  &eta;oian  &Dagger;orever &eta;ew &Dagger;rontiers  22:56, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Since you have given me many articles, I will give you one to. This article may describe US a few years from now:Teeninvestor (talk) 23:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks Teen, however, democracy is better than dictatorship.

Do you like my new article Lin Biao Diary? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  06:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I already edited it.

Actually, when a country is developing, a strong state may be better than a weak state. Take the example of China and India. In 1978, China had only 50% of India's per capita income. NOw China's per capita income is four times that of India. A strong state can help enforce and protect markets and spur development(because it can use it's power to make sure there is more land, capital, etc.. for the markets).

When US and Britain was developing, they weren't exactly democracies either. For example, during the British Industrial revolution, the British government expropriated all the land of the peasants, sent them to the cities to become industrial workers(effectively slave labor) and sold all the land to capitalists. However, when the country is more developed, it will naturally transition to a democracy.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:25, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

License tagging for File:KMT official web site image.jpg
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List of Chinese flags
SVG flag images are not ordinarily replaced by GIF and JPEG images. if you feel there are inaccuracies in the SVGs, the best course of action is to fix the SVGs, or request help in fixing the SVGs. Also, the most common spelling in English in Sun Yat-sen... AnonMoos (talk) 14:41, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks user AnonMoos, I seems to be going nowhere. The problem is very simple, if you read User talk:Zscout370, admin Zscout370 seems to have problems to fix whatever errors, and this problem just drag on and on, because back in 2008 November I had pointed out the differences in the color Blue.
 * The point is, I do not know anything about SVG, though I am willing to learn, just in case same problem would pop up again in the future.


 * More discussion here:talk:Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg Well, I hope you can step in, and offer you help. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang   talk  16:22, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

First off, you should understand that RGB colors as used in GIF and SVG image files are monitor-dependent, lighting-dependent, etc. Context-independent colors are specified using systems such as Pantone and CIELAB, not RGB. This is part of the reason why sometimes it can be impossible to find RGB color values for a flag etc. which satisfy everyone.

However, if I understand you, you want "#082567" in files such as File:Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg replaced by "#0000AA" (i.e. RGB 0,0,170). That would be easy enough to do technically, but page Commons:File:Flag of the Republic of China.svg is protected, and I gather the matter has been controversial in past... AnonMoos (talk) 23:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC) - OK, I uploaded File:Flag of the Republic of China.svg, which at this point is highly preferable to using GIFs... AnonMoos (talk) 23:22, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks AnonMoos again.


 * 1) You have guessed it right, it looks like more of a political issue than a simple color issue, PRC VS ROC.
 * 2) Yes, "#082567" looks near black, "#0000AA" is better, or something even lighter.
 * 3) Yes, Commons:File:Flag of the Republic of China.svg is being  protected, but there are two more files we can work on(please show me how to do, so that next time same problem pop up again I would know what to do). Commons:File:Republic of China Army Flag.svg and Commons:File:Emblem of the Kuomintang.svg
 * 4) Do I need to install software such as SVG viewer, or something like that?
 * 5) I am very happy at last someone come to help me, many thanks again <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang   talk  23:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Alternate blue is great
Thanks for your alternate blue, could you do the same thing to the other two commons file? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  23:32, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Fair use images
In the above section User_talk:Arilang1234 I changed the non free image into a link. Non free images cannot be placed on a User talk page.--Rockfang (talk) 04:20, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Mao
You should know that I am not a fan of Mao. His power-grabbing brought China to the trough- perhaps its worst trough in history. He opposed free markets, didn't give the people a living, and destroyed the culture of the Hua Xia. However, wikipedia is not a debate forum. The section on Mao is not very well written(it consists of translations) and is not cited. That is why I removed it.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:17, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Teen, citing is no problem, especially the Chiang's comment, is taken from his diary, which is partially open to the public. I feel that Chiang Kai-shek had been demonized for too long. If you are interested in Chiang's diary, you can google it, may be another wiki article? Whatever, historically, Chiang was 抗日英雄, Mao is ranked the world's second most notorious killer/monster, behind Josep Stalin. No 3 is Adolf Hilter. See Democide. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  01:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Mao is worse than either Stalin or Hitler. Hitler- developed the country into superpower. Stalin- developed the country into superpower. Mao did not yet he did more damage. Also, I have looked at Pi Do rally and made a few changes.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:50, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Teen, it is better to keep the Pi Dou pinyin, my reasons:
 * Pi Dou is Chinese, as you know Chinese words carry much more info than english word. Struggle is just not powerfull enough.
 * Session is too weak, Mass rally is better, because 批鬥大會 was always violent and noisy, chaotic, many people shouting slogans, beating drums, and often ended in mass exceution, lots of blood, Session is just too tame.
 * More and more people are learning 漢字
 * Many Chinese words are already being accepted into mainstream English dictionary, words like, Kowtow 叩頭, Chengguan 城管, plus many others. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  02:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I read in a book somewhere that "struggle session" was the most common name for this kind of persecutin.Teeninvestor (talk) 12:53, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * "Struggle session" is the most common name used in English -- I dare say that it is the only name used in English -- for this persecution. The article should be renamed as such. L talk 11:51, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Teen, the full name is 批判鬥爭大會, struggle session is not ferocious and violence enough to convey the full impact of the phrase.

Happy to see you have finished the Econony article, I will have a look soon. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  17:09, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Ta Da
I present to you Economic history of China which is finished!!! Okay, if you want to help, here's the to-do list: 1. add more citations 2. Expand Ming, Qing, ROC, PRC sections(Which were a bit rushed) 3. Get pictures. Teeninvestor (talk) 13:42, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Worst than Wu Hu
Teen, please have a look when you have time: User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Cannibolism in modern China. You think Maoist communists worst than Wu Hu ? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  21:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Wu Hu is worse. Maoists are power-grabbing, so it only lasted a few years. Wu Hu's goal was to destroy Hua Xia- to destroy civilization and replace it with savagery. It's a completely different way of life. Even Manchus and Mongols didn't want to destroy Chinese civilization(they just hampered it through their ignorant rule).Teeninvestor (talk) 21:47, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Take a look at Economic history of China. I have expanded the Ming, Qing, ROC sections. Now it's time to expand Deng Xiaoping Era sections.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:48, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Teen, I put in some links at Economic history of China, I think this article:
 * cover too vast a time span
 * Like PoA said, to go into any details you need to branch out and create more articles
 * I think there are still a lot of stuff there need to be taken off, because they deal more with history and politic than Economy
 * I do admire your ambition and stamina to handle such a complex article

Carry on the good work. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  22:38, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Politics is interconnected with economics too much, unfortunately for the market.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I left comment about 屯田, which is a very important agriculture system, hope you have a look. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  22:52, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Shu Fan
A tag has been placed on User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Shu Fan requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a blatant copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words.

If the external website belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the external website but have permission from that owner, see Requesting copyright permission. You might want to look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. <span style="padding:2px;background: #cccccc; color: #0000cc; BORDER-RIGHT: #6699cc 3px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #6699cc 3px solid;"> 7   talk   23:04, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Four occupations
Yes, I created the page four occupations and added most of its material. It failed a Good Article test, though. However, I've been editing it recently. I see you have as well, changing the characters to the four different characters for each "occupation" of ancient people.

I would agree with your stance that the government's oppressive taxes and regulations imposed on the merchant class hampered the rise of capitalism, but so did many other features of premodern Chinese civilization. The birth of modern capitalism required the rise of a savvy upper-middle class which could invest capital in new technologies which allowed for a greater, more efficient production of goods. Even though premodern Chinese cities grew incredibly large and had large merchant communities and markets, Chinese civilization was still far to agrarian-based even into the early 19th century. Production was still limited largely to handicrafts produced by artisans or clothing woven at home by women. People became content with age-old methods of production and divisions of labor instead of taking interest in new technical processes and ways to organize labor. There was little incentive to do so and no real market for mass produced goods. Most people in China were poor, rural farmers who made most of their own goods and did not require standardized products and commodities manufactured in mills, factories, manufactories, workshops, etc. The nobility, although wealthy and prestigious, was quite small as a social group and desired specialty luxury items crafted by professional master craftsmen, not goods produced en masse on an assembly line. Even if the nobility was a large social group and required mass-produced goods, the urban workforce was simply not large enough to build a modern capitalist system (like I said above, most people still lived out in the country and were farmers). Europe's Industrial Revolution really gained speed only after a large amount of people from the rural countryside migrated to the cities looking for work in factories. Anyways, thanks for taking interest in the article.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 23:43, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * PoA,

This four occupations is a very important Chinese social concept, I see that you fully understand its immense implications. Plus the concept of 君臣父子 I mentioned before, these two combine, more or less you understand the Chinese social and political system, even up to today. For thousands of years, Chinese society got stuck in this time warp, there seems to be no way out. And the Marxist ideology only make it worst. Anyway, I think this information revolution internet things would bring good to Huaxia.

You are not interested in modern Chinese history? It is much more interesting than ancient history, that is my opinion, of course. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  00:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I disagree completely about this notion. China was by no means stuck in a "time warp". From roughly the Warring states to the Qing, China lead the world in development of both innovations and the market. The Market economy doesn't happen overnight, you know.

I would think that the Song and Ming Dynasties were very close examples of capitalist societies. While most of China's population still remained on the countryside, they had became an integral part of the market economy by the Song(they produced for the market and purchased most of their goods over it). Large enterprises with several million taels had emerged for a long time, and in terms of trade Ming China was far more friendly to it than Europe(who had adopted a mercantilist stance). Chinese factories were able to turn out large amounts of products for a massive market. Examples of this can be seen in Song and Ming porcelain factories(hundreds of thousands turned out) or in flower prices in Luoyang in the 11th century(reached 15,000 coins there). Technologically wise, production per capita was always improving. This can be seen in that throughout Han, Tang Song and Ming, agricultural techniques were always improving in some way or another. The urban population was by no means small; Ming urban population was in the range of 20 to 30 percent, and a large number of merchants and workers were the basis of huge industries. In terms of taxes of regulations, China's merchants were subject to far less than European countries(Tax per capita). The rural market was by no means small; due to advances already made during earlier dynasties, farmers usually were able to procure a surplus of food for themselves and thus had quite a bit of purchasing power. The real reason capitalism didn't develop was the suppression of it after the takeover by the Manchus in the 17 th century which marked the beginning of China's decline.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:50, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

For years in China the reason why China could not develop capitalism was given Marxist dogmatic explanations which were fundamentally traced back to the prejudiced and ignorant model of the so-called "oriental despotism", where the "servile orientals" could not develop their own. More or less, these academics had an answer in mind, and were trying to justify that answer through finding evidence. It's like having a conclusion before making up your hypothesis.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:57, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, rural farmers became heavily engaged in trading at urban markets where they would periodically travel to sell goods they produced on the farm. And yes, some rural farmers did purchase luxury items crafted by artisans in the cities. On the point of the "urbanization" of rural farmers' culture, Timothy Brook makes this abundantly clear in his The Confusions of Pleasure: Commerce and Culture in Ming China (1998), a wonderful book if you ever get a chance to read it. However, farmers did not purchase "most of their goods" from the market. Aside from buying metal farming tools which the peasants couldn't produce unless they operated their own blast furnace, the peasants pretty much produced all of life's necessities on their patch of land from local resources of timber, stone, earth, etc. This is pretty much identical to commercial interactions between the cities and countryside in premodern Europe, before the Industrial Revolution. As impressive as the Ming and early Qing era porcelain factories were in regards to scale of production (which would simply rival if not surpass any of the greatest European industries at the time), think about the limited market of people who actually bought luxury porcelain items. And was production of porcelain—as a luxury commodity sold to a limited amount of people—really the driving engine for drawing a mass of rural farmers from the countryside to the city for work in factories? Hardly so.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 02:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * "The real reason capitalism didn't develop was the suppression of it after the takeover by the Manchus in the 17 th century which marked the beginning of China's decline." But the suppression of the merchant middle class was nothing new to the Qing period. The Qing court's strict regulations and limitation of foreign maritime trade to only a handful of seaports were major policies of the previous Ming Dynasty (although repealed in the mid 16th century). In both Ming and Qing, the imperial court was convinced that the Middle Kingdom itself produced nearly everything that the Middle Kingdom would ever need.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 02:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Suppression had been on for 3000 years

 * Teen, PoA is right, you must learn from him. No matter what Internet bloggers said about Ming/Song dynasty this and that, Chinese emperors never ever once like to have strong and rich merchants sleeping beside them, because the most fundamental characteristic is 皇權统治, and 君臣父子. The emperors will always want to control Baixing forever, so Baixing will always be 民, when good, they are 良民, when bad, they are 草民, or 暴民, China has never ever evolve the citizens class like in the West, this is why even today, the Chinese government still treat Baixing as 賤民, because this is how Chinese Baixing had been treated for thousands of years. Agree? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang   talk  03:09, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't really think so. In terms of rule by the emperor, Europe's kings was not much better(perhaps even worse) than the Song/Ming Dynasties. In terms of maltreatment, any state will abuse its citizens quite badly; the only difference is how much. That is why usually most people will advocate the market over state control.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:58, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Need more editors like you
Teen, it is very good to see editors like you working on wikipedia, and I wish there are hundres, or thousands like you around, may be then Huaxia would have hope. But first of all you have to agree that Marxist ideology had driven Huaxia backward by hundreds of years, the only way to catch up is to completely discard Marxist ideology, you agree? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  01:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I was never a fan of marxism anyways. See my user page.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Major revamp of Economic history of China
Basically, this is what happened: Economic history of China had about 30-40kb of excess info removed and the rest was split up into two articles, Economic history of China (Pre-1911) and Economic history of Modern China. This way, the first article only has about 114kb of info, so it is managable. Take a look at both articles.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Teen, this is better, when you have time, may be another article like The comparison of Ming/Qing economy ? For example, Ming expanded the Great Wall in a massive scale, like how did they funded the project? How much silver was used? Also the building of Forbidden City was done by Ming, like where the money came from? Using pure economic point of view. Then you look at Qing, like have they done any major public projects in 263 years, apart from all those Manchu City? Once we do the comparison, we can find out a lot of different things. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  21:54, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I think the pre 1910 article can be splited further, it is still too big, very easy got lost and be confused, and is not user friendly, because there is no room to add any finer details. Talk to PoA, he is the expert. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  22:09, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, the pre 1911 article is about 91 kb so there is room for 9kb of more details. As It stands, the pre 1911 article is detailed enough; it's the post 1911 article that needs attention.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:13, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, WP:SIZE says an article should be no more than 100 KB of prose text, but it strongly suggests that an article with more than 60 KB of prose text should be broken up or reduced in size. 91 KB is really, really pushing it, so take your pick between these two options.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 23:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Well it's a broad topic.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:54, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Wu Hu uprising
I am thinking about starting a stub for this article and finishing it tomorrow. Probably will take half an hour at most.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:30, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, ancient history is OK, what about modern history, like Anti-Bolshevik League incidence, many Red Guards were just as bad as WU Hu, may be even worst. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  23:43, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Check out new stubs Wei-Jie war and Wu Hu uprising.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:44, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

See also: Liu Yu's expeditions.Teeninvestor (talk) 02:05, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Pictures, pictures, get your pictures here
I recently downloaded these pictures to Wikimedia Commons. The first four are Tang, the bottom two are Ming. They exude pure awesomeness. Bask in their glory! Lol. Enjoy.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 02:18, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks PoA. What about 虎符, I believe it is a very important item in ancient Chinese history, a symbol of the Supreme Commander and Absolute Power of the Emperors, until Qing, when it was taken away by Zeng Guofan, when he started the Tuanlian.  <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  02:32, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean you want me to upload a picture of a hufu 虎符? Ann Paludan's book (1998) has a picture of a tiger tally from the Qin Dynasty. Unfortunately I cannot scan and upload it, since it is a three-dimensional object from a book. Such objects are considered creative works of the photographer, unlike flat images like paintings which are considered uncreative works of the photographer and hence public domain. What I can tell you though, Arilang, is that I swear to Shangdi that if I ever see a hufu 虎符 in a museum somewhere, you will most certainly see a picture of it downloaded to Wikimedia Commons. I'd like to get a picture for a possible future article on the Tiger Tally as well.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 02:45, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * PoA, when I was on commons, I did a search on Chinese history or something like that. I remember seeing a gallery by a American professor, there was a picture of a 虎符, and he did stated that he had gave you the permission to use all his images, that is why I memtion 虎符 to you. I forget what his name was, give me some time, I go search on commons, and shall come back with his name.

虎符 or not, I think an article like History of Chinese military would be good, what you think?


 * PoA, was it Professor Gary Lee Todd? I am not very sure.


 * The image I saw was similar to this one

 <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  03:15, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah! I'm in correspondence with Gary Lee Todd. I often upload images from his site, as he has given me explicit permission and worked this out with Wikimedia to create an OTRS license for all his images. I've never uploaded a Tiger Tally image from his site, but if I find one I certainly will upload it. I'll consider working on Military history of China, which is an already existent article on the subject you want to see.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 04:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Aha! I found the image at Gary's site and have uploaded it. Check out File:Tiger Tally.JPG. Cheers.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 23:15, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Tiger Tally

 * PoA, thanks for uploading to commons, but to my understandig, the professor's statement:"were used to validate the entry and exit of official visitors to the palaces of kings and emperors." is a bit doubtfull. As far as I understand:


 * 虎符, sometimes was called 兵符.
 * No one is allowed to go near emperors without the escort of eunuchs or palace imperial guards, not even emperor's own brothers or parent, in fear of plots. One of the reasons why emperors often called themselves 孤家寡人, the lonely one.
 * Tiger Tally's main purpose is to command the movement of troops on sighting of the Tally. Tiger Tally existed in the form of two equal halfs, one half is in the hand of the emperor, the other half in the hand of the field commander. During peace time, the field military commander has no power to move troops under his command. So whenever the emperor wanted to move the troops(to start a war or something), he would send his half of the Tally to the military commander, together with detail instruction on a 聖旨. Whenever the field commander lose the trust of the emperor, then he has to return his half Tally to the emperor, signalling the lost of power of the field commander, resulting in either death and/or exile.
 * Tiger Tally is the symbol of the status of Commander in chief of the emperor, only changed during late Qing Dynasty.
 * In modern days, PLA is controlled by Chinese communist party, so we can say CCP is kind of "Emperor of China".
 * Thanks for pointing that out! I have fixed the caption.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 23:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Military history of China
I just have a rough look at Military history of China, I feel that the main theme has not been mentioned, what I mean is the Commander in chief theme, like who actually command the army, sort of things. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  08:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'll see what I can do. Right now I'm trying to pass List of Emperors of the Han Dynasty as a featured list article, though.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 08:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I just revamped the Economic history of China article. Don't feel like working on the military one. Right now I am making a few articles dealing with the Wu Hu and Northern & Southern dynasties. The Deng Yujia incident is the incident of a petty criminal(its not like prostitution was ever illegal in China anyways). Unfortunately, it got the attention of the populists.Teeninvestor (talk) 12:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Mao's poem on support Deng Yujiao T-shirt.jpg
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Man, this is weird
Check this out (color footage from WWII, German soldiers being escorted out of Italy by US troops BEFORE the war's end):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kowbXGifALU

Granted, the war is about to end a couple weeks after this, but still, it is very strange to watch these two sides sitting around, chatting, directing traffic together while the war is still going on.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 20:32, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Deng Yujiao incident
I think this is nothing more than a typical murder case, no need of this populist anger. It is similar to the Yang Jia case- it is a shame when the Hua Xia supports a mentally ill person who murdered six polic officiers. Granted, I hate government officials and bureaucrats, but not to that point! It is obvious that he should have been shot for this crime. Similarly, right now there is no proof the three people who Deng Yujiao attacked with a knife were about to rape/murder her, so her killing one and wounding another is not justified.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * In terms of the sex industry, I condone it. Whenever there is a supply and demand, and it doesn't cause harm to others(like drugs or unlimited credit), the state should not interfere. Teeninvestor (talk) 21:04, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, it is wrong to support those thug like actions of county bureaucrats, if you read all the reports, and watch all those youtube videos, I believe you would change your mind. I know you support the economic development of China, but there is a limit to it, there is still something call human decency, or human value, otherwise we might as well become barbarians. I shall revert your edit, and paste this disscusion on talk page:Deng Yujiao incident, and we can continue our discussion on that talk page. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  21:22, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Hyperpower
I inserted a sourced reference into the article, which was reverted. Please help.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:12, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, I see what I can do. May be PoA is a better person, as he read a lot of books. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  22:16, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Resolved.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:22, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, comment like :"I'm watching the page for a few days to make sure my edit isn't reverted. it better not be." does not look good on wiki, it is a sign of immaturity, we are here to work together with each other, not to start a war. I hope you understand. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  22:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Rape of Nanjing video
Hi Arilang. I enjoyed watching the video, the footage was very good, even though much of it was very sad and heartbreaking. The total carnage of this event is kind of hard to fathom...even after one has seen the pictures. This subject is obviously still an open wound for the Chinese, one that will not be healed and reconciled perhaps even in this generation. In regards to the video commentary, though, some of it was highly questionable. For example, the Tanaka Memorial was mentioned in the video, but the narrator Rhawn Joseph (his Ph.D. was in...???) made no mention that the memorial is considered by the majority of present-day historians to be a forgery. The Japanese Empire's goal certainly became one of domination over East Asia and of course they did bomb American soil and send spies into the USA, along with Japanese and German submarines that skirted across both coasts of the USA. But after the war, no Japanese documents were found by Allied forces which suggested that their goal was total world domination, despite actions (especially in Korea!) that one could associate with the German lebensraum. In any case, I'm glad that the page for Rape of Nanjing has received a good deal of attention here at the English-speaking Wiki. It could use a bit more work, though. Regards.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 14:18, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * PoA, I am glad to hear your positive comments about the video, while knowing that war is always a savage and sad story, especially regarding the barbarian  Japan Imperial Army.


 * 1) If you read Hua-Yi distinction, Japan is one of the three main nations (China, Japan, Korea) benefited from Confucianism, and Hua and Yi argument was successfully used by the Japanese to start war against China, evidence: Imjin War, First Sino-Japanese war, 满洲國.
 * 2) Japanese as an island nation, has always deep fear of earthquake, tsunami, sinking into the bottom of the sea, etc. In short, Japanese had always dreamed of finding a continent to call home.
 * 3) Not to be mistaken, Japanese in real life are gentle people, as all the Confucius-influenced people are gentle. Some Chinese historians said that because of their island mentality, they tend to become savage and animal during the process of conquering the mainland people.
 * 4) If you are going to work on Military history of China, Sino-Japan war is a must. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang   talk  02:56, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree. The first and second Sino-Japanese Wars should receive a great amount of attention in Military history of China. Btw, have you had a chance to look at my user page lately? User:PericlesofAthens.

I took the liberty to change the Yongle image, and hope you don't mind.

I am witnessing a great Chinese historian, and a great Sinologist in the making. Like an old Chinese saying, 學而优則仕: translation: when you have achieve excellence in your study, then naturally you would become a government official. I hope one day you would become a 仕, a 爱民之官, a person that will give voice to the Baixing <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  10:33, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Second Sino-Japanese War
Hi Arilang, some people are vandalizing the Second Sino-Japanese War article. One tries to add all the individual foreign countries, the other tries to add a POV tag on top without providing any specific reasons. If you can please take a look, thanks. Blueshirts (talk) 14:49, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use Image:Martin Jahnke.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Martin Jahnke.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:


 * 1) Go to the media description page and edit it to add, without deleting the original replaceable fair use template.
 * 2) On the image discussion page, write the reason why this image is not replaceable at all.

Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or similar) media under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself.

If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Peripitus (Talk) 12:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, thanks for informing me on the uploaded file. To tell the truth, I still not fully understand all these wiki rules, I just upload them and hope that no mistake has been made. Please feel free to point out my error. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang   talk  12:37, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi yourself. Not fully understanding is normal; The rules are complicated, often hidden and sometimes counter-intuitive. What the non-free (copyright) image rules are seeking is that, where possible, wikipedia does not host the images or, again if possible, finds a free alternative (text or a different image). These non-free images, like the one you've uploaded, must in essense significantly add to reader's understanding of the article's topic, in a way that a piece of text or another image could not approach. In this case Martin Jahnke is still alive, hence a new (and free) image could be taken of him, uploaded here and used where needed. It is usually always deemed possible to take a photo of a living person, with a very few exceptions. On a side note I find it most amusing that while Jahnke shoeing Wen would would help the cause of democracy in China, he didn't practice throwing straight ! - Peripitus (Talk) 21:38, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


 * For one thing I quite agree with you, on him missing the stationary target; if his aim was to be more accurate, such an incident would have became a hot topic in Chinese blogosphere for at least months, at the same time, would go down history for sure, as never before any Chinese Head of State, nor emperor, had been hit by a flying shoe.

That said, I shall create Martin Jahnke when I got some free time, as I believe he is already being considered a hero by many Chinese dissidents. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang   talk  22:03, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

???? If these dissidents respect this guy I will not have respect for him. He is probably just an attention-deficit disorder case.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Martin Jahnke
Teen, I am glad you joint the discussion. However, I believe Martin Jahnke can become a role model for Chinese 憤青(angry young men)
 * He reminds me of this guy that try to kill 秦始皇
 * Too many Chinese have been Nucai for too long, it is time the Chinese behaving a bit like rebels
 * There is social reasons why Yang Jia, now Deng Yujiao incident are supported by majority of Chinese netizens(300 millions, and increasing by the days). Teen, in nuclear science, there is a term called critical mass, I mean when the number of Chinese netizens reach a critical mass, I wonder what might happen. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  02:00, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Martin Jahnke is not a hero. He's a shoe thrower. And he wasn't even the first person to throw the shoe. The iraqi journalist threw the shoe because Bush invaded Iraq and killed 1 million Iraqis. Jahnke has no reason to throw the shoe. He threw it cause he wanted to get attention. That is all.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:29, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Contains Chinese text
Just out of curiosity, why do you keep lowering or removing and  tags? I have noticed this trend in your editing for several months, and today I had to revert it twice, so I'm wondering what your rationale is. <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 03:28, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

@user Rianag, well, I just thought these tags kind of look out of place if they are placed on top of the page, that is why I try to put them at the bottom. No other reasons. As regard the Petition article, I just forgot to put it back, that is all.

There is a question I like to have your opinion, articles like Futian incident, New Fourth Army Incident, Shu Fan movement, Zhen Fan, Anti-Bolshevik League incident,  Pi Dou mass rally,  List of political offences that attract jail terms in China, they all have something in common:
 * 1) Chinese communist movement
 * 2) Mass exceution of Chinese
 * 3) Mosty under the order of Mao
 * 4) Unprecedent in Chinese history, far outdo what the Manchu rulers have done in Qing dynasty, may be comparable to Wu Hu

I would like to have a special template made, something like Communist Chinese atrocity, or something like that. Please let me know your opinion. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  07:37, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

K, the Qing were much worse than the CPC. At least the CPC under Deng Xiaoping developed China from complete ruin to biggest industrial base now. Qing= 300 year stagnation. Wu Hu is even worse. Last time I checked, 70% of China's population didnt die even in the worst times of the Maoist era. Maoist era is the worse  Chinese era, but the barbarian rule is worse than Mao era.Also, as to the article, I wouldn't believe anything the epoch times have to say; they said that 700 million people died in the cultural revolution. It's complete bogus. And besides, it's not like Chinese economy needs a lot of investment. China's industries are already the biggest in the world, dwarfing the United States and rivalled only by Japan. Withdrawl of foreign capital could be followed by CHinese firms buying back what they sold, which would actually be good.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * And if you think the CPC lies, wait til you see the US government. Not one US statistic is reliable; in April, they said "only" 500,000 jobs were lost, and then later they "revised" it to 700,000. The US economy is still in a death spiral. Teeninvestor (talk) 11:26, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

70 million, not 700 million
Teen, 何清漣 is a reputable scholar, and Epochtimes claimed 70 millions dead, not 700 millions. So you do agree with like Wu Hu>>Mao>>Qing comparison, so within 3000 years of Chinese history, Wu Hu plus Mao plus Qing together would be the darkest period of Chinese history, are they any scholary source that make this claim? If there is reliable source, may be can ask PoA to help create a new Wiki? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  19:37, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Mao Era is very dark, but probably not as dark as Wu Hu or Early Qing or Yuan eras(when chinese were treated like slaves & 10-50% of the population died). After all, mao era was a period of native rule, even if by China's worst despot.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:25, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

郎咸平
I can only laugh at this guy's views. Obviously, this guy has never been to the west. He thinks the Anglo-Saxon race is perfect, apparently. The Chinese are much more adept at capitalism than them, I can assure you. Put it this way: Whoever thinks China's inferiority in modern times is because of culture is either ignorant or a bullshitter who knows nothing. And besides, this guy is a socialist. Didn't you hear what he was saying, defending state ownership? That's a terrible idea. China needs to maintain the current free market structure. Teeninvestor (talk) 01:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, 郎咸平 is from Taiwan, he is big time in China, at one time he had his own TV program, I quite agree with some of his view point. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  03:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Qianlong Era
Qianlong's rule was not a golden age; that's like saying 1950's Mao Era was a golden age. It was the better part of a dark age for China. Income in Qing dynasty was maybe half, perhaps a third of that in the Ming Era. The Manchu rule was many times worse than Mao, and on par with the devastation of Mongols. China had the highest GDP per capita til the 17 th century.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty
This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above.

is topic-banned from Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty for a period of six months. He is permitted to comment on the talkpage, provided that he does so in a civil fashion. He is instructed not to interact with or comment with regard to or  on any page of Wikipedia (except in the course of legitimate dispute resolution initiated by others or his mentors). Tenmei shall also be assigned one or more volunteer mentors. Other remedies also apply.

The parties are instructed to carefully review the principles and findings contained in this decision. Each of the parties is strongly urged to conform his or her future behavior to the principles set forth in this decision. Should the remedies fail to improve the situation described in this decision, after a reasonable time, an application may be made to reopen the case and impose other remedies as may be necessary.

- For the Committee, Mailer Diablo 22:46, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Teen, it is good news to hear the decision made on user Tenmei, it's about time he stop harassing people. At last, justic is done.

New wiki, The black or blue of KMT emblem
However, when you have time, please go to wikicommons and register an account there. A very interesting argument had developed, you probably would have a good laugh out of it. But I would be very happy if you and PoA would go there and add some supportive comments on my side, at the moment I am the only one doing the fighting! A lone fight.commons:File talk:Flag of the Republic of China.svg <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  23:05, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Tenmei is now banned from the article, and from contacting me or Caspian. He is also under supervision. Good for now, I guess.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:13, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Ten, I think Tenmei is a nut case, coconut. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  23:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Teen, many thanks for your supportive comment on commons.

Anyone, as long as he/she is not blind can see that those people is trying to push wikicommons into a ridiculous situation, by calling Black a Blue, make me think of 指鹿為馬. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  01:31, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Ridiculous argument
Thanks, I did need a good giggle today. :) L talk 01:27, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment Alainna. Those editors pushing hard trying to turn the ROC flag into a Black color flag have forgotton two basic facts:
 * 1) The official name of the flag is 青天白日旗.
 * 2) They used a small web-based image(could be put there by someone who hated Kuomintang) and insert sapphire color #082567 into all six or seven files that are related to the Blue Sky White Sun(青天白日旗), and sucessfully turned all the ROC flags into a Black flag. The end result is:

Now I like to know is, at the end of the day, who is going to follow who, would KMT also use sapphire color #082567 embeded on their party logo? I wonder. If that ever come true, then the official name Blue Sky White Sun(青天白日旗) would have to change to something like Black Sky White Sun(黑天白日旗), and Sun Yat-sen would sit up in his tomb, so to speak. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  01:56, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

File:Flying Tiger 50th anniversary stamp.JPG listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Flying Tiger 50th anniversary stamp.JPG, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Peripitus (Talk) 21:48, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Yang Jia
Hi, and thanks for your interesting contributions to Yang Jia. Please do not add links to Youtube videos to the article. This is not allowed per WP:YT because these videos are copyright violations, and it is also not appropriate because this is the English language Wikipedia, and its readership is unlikely to understand videos in Chinese. Thanks!  Sandstein  21:13, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi, about these Chinese sources: Chinese sources are fine as references in citations (footnotes) to support a specific fact in the article, if no equivalent English source is available (see WP:VUE). But what we should not do is just put external links to Internet stories (in Chinese or English) into the article if they do not serve as a reference for the article, because per WP:ELNO we should not link to "any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a featured article." Thanks,  Sandstein   05:54, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your comment. Well I know we have to adhere to wiki rules, but sometimes I am just too lazy to read and understand all these many rules, so I just do it until someone point out my errors, which I am sure there are many many of them. Thanks for pointing out where I went wrong, you have to be patient with me because sometimes I keep on doing the same unintentional mistakes, and no evil intentions, if you understand.
 * Of course!  Sandstein   06:50, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Regarding internet video, are all of youtube video have copy-right problems? What about Chinese video sites? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  06:19, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Most likely yes. WP:YT says that "Many YouTube videos of newscasts, shows or other content of interest to Wikipedia visitors are copyright violations. Each such link must be evaluated for inclusion with due care on a case-by-case basis." In general, we must assume a YouTube video to be a copyright violation if there is not indication that the copyright owner (the TV station) agrees with uploading its videos to YouTube. This applies to Chinese TV stations or video sites in the same way as to other TV stations or sites, because the PRC also has copyright laws.  Sandstein   06:50, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes I agree with you on those video sites. I shall be carefull in future. Another thing I would like to learn a bit more is None Free fair use, which I find it very usefull at times, because a picture says a thousand words. But sometimes my uploads got deleted, I still find it hard to understand. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  07:00, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

To make a political point
User Sandstein and Peripitus, please have a look:http://www.flickr.com/photos/32687447@N07/3633262837/

I would like to use None free fair use template to upload to Blue Sky with White Sun and/or Chinese Taipei to drive home a political message, please advice. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  07:16, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Arilang. Apart from thinking that it's a poor idea to use the site for political messages (unless I've misconstrued your thoughts), the image is not a good one to host here for copyright reasons. Looking through the uploads of the linked flickr user, they certainly don't have the rights to release many of the images under the CC licences used and almost certainly don't have the rights to many more. Many of the images, such as this one, appear to be taken from other sites and which are correctly licensed is a guessing game. I would say that as there is no clear copyright holder for the image, and the license is suspect, we should not host the image here - Peripitus (Talk) 22:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * @user Peripitus, thanks for you prompt reply.

Or, any chance of it being accepted by commons? <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  02:26, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) In regard to your comment:to use the site for political messages, I would sort of obejct to it, simply because Blue Sky with White Sun in itself is highly political, I mean the article is about a revolutionary emblem, everything about it is about politic.
 * 2) Regarding image http://www.flickr.com/photos/32687447@N07/3633262837/, what about the use of ?

Incidents in China
Things like Deng Yujiao incident and the Xu Yuangao incident have been occuring. While it is always good for citizens to limit state power, it is worrying to see a bunch of Maoist/socialist scum try to exploit it and blaming China's problems on "capitalism". In reality, most of these social problems/incidents. are because of corrupt officials who have too much power. In other words, there should be more capitalism not less. When China's government has only 10% of GDP to spend, these officials will have no power.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:22, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Teen, I quite agree with you. Just look at Xu Yuangao incident, a cook' dead body, and end up ordering 30,000 para-military police to grab the dead body, isn't ridiculous? Go to the talk page, there is some very interesting video clips.

Like I said before, never before in Huaxia 3000 years of written history, Baixing had suffered so much, may be only Wuhu times? Have a look at 2008 Guizhou riot, wouldn't it make you angry?

Have a look at http://news.boxun.com/news/gb/china/2009/06/200906212333.shtml, if what is being reported is true facts, then Wen Jiabao is not bad, after all. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  22:01, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

"'Like I said before, never before in Huaxia 3000 years of written history, Baixing had suffered so much, may be only Wuhu times? Have a look at 2008 Guizhou riot, wouldn't it make you angry?'"

This is way too extreme.Right now is a very good time for baixing, i Can safely say that as of 2009, the living standards of the hua xia is the highest in history of China. However, that doesn't mean that things shouldn't be improved. Teeninvestor (talk) 01:54, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Voting on color soon
Teen, looks like there is going to be a consensus voting on the color of ROC flag:commons:File talk:Flag of the Republic of China.svg, please go there and voice your opinion. <font style="color:white;background:#008000;"> Arilang  talk  23:01, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

shades of blue vote
I've actually refrained from expressing an opinion on the best color to be used... AnonMoos (talk) 23:24, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * May I ask why? Qiute a few users are picking the pure blue version, I think we would win this time, <font style="color:white;background:#0000CD;"> Arilang  talk  01:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Because I have no special knowledge or expertise in this particular sub-area, other than owning a few "Flags of the World" type books (which can't be strongly relied on for exact shades of color). AnonMoos (talk) 04:24, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I have voiced my opinion on the matter in the section "Why is it ROC flags must have #082567". If it comes down to a vote, I'll vote accordingly.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 01:05, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks PoA for your support. <font style="color:white;background:#0000FF;"> Arilang  talk  02:52, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

File:517 anti-Ma Yingjeou protester kicking 5 star red flag.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:517 anti-Ma Yingjeou protester kicking 5 star red flag.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Peripitus (Talk) 06:25, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

@User Peripitus, I have no objection of both images being deleted, but if I use Photoscape software to further trim away most part of the image, and retain the central part, where the foot and the 5 stars are, would then be OK? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  08:15, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The main issue is that the images are copyrighted (though they do not belong to the flickr user you got them from) and I cannot see how they can be said to meet the non-free content criteria, particularly the requirement that they significantly increase reader's understanding. if you used photoshop on them, they would still retain their original copyright as a derivative work and would fall into the same problem area as the originals. - Peripitus (Talk) 10:16, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Pictures I've downloaded recently
For your amusement, here are some lovely images I've uploaded to Wiki recently.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 12:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * PoA, your immense interest in ancient Chinese culture make me wonder, may be you were really the Tian Kehan in your past lifes? or perhaps one of the sons of Genghis Khan? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  20:45, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't there be a better comparison? Genghis Khan and his sons were brutal barbarians and destroyers of Chinese(and indeed, all civilized culture).Teeninvestor (talk) 23:18, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry PoA for compare you with Genghis Khan, I withdraw my wrong suggestion. What about Chiang Kai-shek? He is a real Hero of Huaxia, (1) He was anti-communist (2) He was the commander-in-chief of China theatre of 2nd world war (3) He had four wifes, one is Soong Mei-ling, together they were the rich and famous in their times (4) He was the one that brought ancient China into one of the four founding members of United Nations. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  00:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry, no offense
Hahaha! Genghis Khan. To me, the comparison is more humorous than insulting, Arilang. I don't think that I should be compared to someone as great as Chiang Kai-shek, a paragon of all that is Hua Xia. Who knows, if reincarnation is truly real, then I was perhaps a Chinese court historian in ages past (Sima Guang maybe? Lol). I'm glad that you treasure the newly-uploaded artwork. Well if you liked that, then you'll love this (which I just nominated at Featured picture candidates).

Along the River During the Qingming Festival, meet your Rival
All your base are belong to this painting. It simply competes with Along the River During the Qingming Festival.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 10:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Great picture
Thanks PoA for the picture, I can spend hours just looking at it.
 * Any reason why there is no images of fire-arms?
 * I did not know elephants were used in Ming dynasty, always thought only 雲南, or Vietnam use elephants at war.
 * 清明上河圖 is about civilian life, this one is about royal family. However, both are national treasure. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  21:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the elephants in the painting are not exactly being put to a military use, but yes, China does have a sporadic history of using war elephants. I edited that article a long time ago to include info on China in several sections. Elephant cavalry were used in battle as late as the early Song Dynasty's efforts against Southern Han, and as early as the Western Wei period. As for firearms, this was still the 15th century; some Ming troops had firearms, but this was rare and they were only deployed in battle. As far as I know, there were no gun-wielding bodyguards who acted as escorts for the Ming emperors when they traveled outside of Beijing on imperial tours. I don't think troops specializing in firearms would be necessary for a simple trip from Beijing to the Ming Dynasty Tombs, which is what this painting portrays.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 22:56, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As for civilian versus royal, I do prefer paintings which portray normal, everyday life of the commoners, even if paintings of emperors usually have exciting and lavish scenes such as this. The historian can learn more about ancient China from a painting depicting a reclusive monk, or rural children playing, or scholars studying, or a street peddler selling goods than he can from a portrait painting of an emperor decked in his finest imperial robes and seated at a throne. That is not representative of how most people lived (let alone dressed!)-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 23:05, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Chiang Kai-shek, Genghis Khan, or Tian Kehan
Teen, if you look from a different angle, without Genghis Khan, the world would not be the same today. For example, the muslim world would be very different, you think ? Manchu Jurchen would have never made it, I am quite sure. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  00:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

History Without Genghis Khan
Without Genghis Khan the Song Dynasty would have never fallen, and would have eventually expelled Manchu Jur'chens. the 100 years of extra development would have seen Ming get industrial revolution by 1600, or if not, the Ming Dynasty would have been advanced enough to defeat Manchus despite the disastrous Little Ice Age. The birth of this man was a disaster for the Hua Xia.

However, Genghis Khan's birth was a great one for Europe. Without him, the Ottoman Empire would have arisen in 1300, and would have attacked Austria, crushing it. Western Europe would be a lot more vulnerable and weaker(without Mongols Europe has no gunpowder and stays feudal). Thus, no western civilizations Thus, in the year 2000 the hua xia is still the most powerful country, so no civil war, cultural revolution, etc...Teeninvestor (talk) 01:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Boxun article
I highly doubt that the Deng Yujiao incident showed that the PRC's central government is weakening. Indeed, the importance of the incident is overrated. Hu Jintao's rule is similar in a trend since Deng Xiaoping. The CPC's path today has been decided a long time ago by Deng Xiaoping; Jiang and Hu simply followed it. Chinese government has been growing more liberal, not less. If you compare the satisifaction with the current government in China you will find it is probably more rather than less compared with, say, Jiang Zemin's time.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, your understanding of Chinese communists in-fighting is shallow, to say the least. Please read *Shu Fan movement*Anti-Bolshevik League incident,* Pi Dou mass rally,* Zhen Fan. Maoist era was really the darkest era in Huaxia history. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  01:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Wu Hu and maybe early Manchu/Mongol eras are MUCH darker in Mao era. At least in Mao era 10 to 50% of the population did not die, and the hua xia were not slaves to a foreign conquerer. Mao era at least was an era of native rule(though by a terrible despot). I'm quite aware of CPC infighting; but that is insignificant. As long as the country is stable and China maintains current free market path, its dominance is inevitable. And besides, isn't our topic the impact of incidents like Deng Yujiao on the effectiveness of the rule of the PRC? My position is that those Mingyun can continue dreaming and mentally masturbating(意淫) but the possibility of them taking power is almost nil. Teeninvestor (talk) 01:33, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, I admire your deep understanding of ancient history, what about the Sino-Japan history? It seems Chinese historians have forgotton the great anti-Japanese war(抗日戰爭).

I agree with you that Mingyun(民運) has no hope of forming any government at all, but that doesn't mean that China should be under People's democratic dictatorship for ever, and every PC in China to have Green Dam Youth Escort installed, there should be a working opposition party in the parliament to see that things would not go terrible wrong, don't you think? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  02:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That's also what I think. If some nutjob takes control of the CPC we're all doomed.Teeninvestor (talk) 13:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Article on chimerica
The article is essentially correct. Where it is not correct is when it talks about social benefits. China must not have a welfare state. Welfare states corrupt and bankrupt the nation, and they damage China's competitiveness. The individual should be responsible for his own welfare, don't force it on other people. Wen Jiabao has already introduced too much welfare, it's time to stop.Teeninvestor (talk) 14:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Song Meiling videos
She was a very impressive woman. Very well-rounded, well spoken, graceful. Plus, what an absolute dish she was! Chiang Kai-shek was a lucky guy (wink, wink). Thanks for sharing these videos; they are invaluable.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 22:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way, I think you'll enjoy the new photos I uploaded and have added to the article Porcelain Tower of Nanjing. Enjoy!-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 22:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the video man. Blueshirts (talk) 00:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

PoA, yes, any hot-blood male would fall in love with both her grace and her voice; I my-self would simply enjoy her voice, her tone, her choice of words, and of all those photos I uploaded, I particularly like the sawing military uniform, and imagine my-self standing by her, watching her working the machine. She is the Ideal Chinese woman to me. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  02:22, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * She's awesome. She was at the front line cheering up troops during the Battle of Shanghai and her car got strafed by Japanese planes and she got broken arms as a result. No other first lady in the world ever got anywhere close to what she did. I don't like her family though. Blueshirts (talk) 03:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

@ Blueshirts, do you mean Soong Ching-ling or her brother 宋子文?
 * 1) I have read many bad reviews on Soong Ching-ling, saying she was a Russian communist spy, and why she instructed to be buried with her family instead of Sun Yat-sen.
 * 2) A lot of rumors are propaganda created by the communists like the corruption of 四大家族, and I have read some articles about Soong's family and they were not Super rich at all. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  04:07, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Soong Ching-ling just made the mistake to believe in the communists. TV Soong was alright too, because he did much to straighten the ROC finance. HH Kung also did a lot to attract foreign capital and aid. But the real corrupt people were Soong Ai-ling and the extended Kung family, ugh. And the problem is that Chiang himself was incorruptible, but he surrounded himself with these people. Good thing he got rid of them after he came to Taiwan. Blueshirts (talk) 04:29, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Nice photos, Arilang! We need more historical early-20th-century photos in general. Let alone of Song Meiling! I was going to post more photos I've uploaded onto your talk page, but I don't want to clog up your discussion here with a billion pictures. You can look at them all here. Cheers!-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 13:50, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks PoA for your photos. I think the subject of Sino-Japan war is facinating, for example, did you know that Chiang Kai-shek was the only Chinese 5-star general? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  20:32, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That I did not know, but I learn something new every day.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 23:22, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Good article
This is an article showing exactly how terrible state socialist power is and how often it's abused. Socialism as practiced by Mao was more or less slavery, even the booi aha of the manchu barbarians might have been better off. http://news.boxun.com/news/gb/z_special/2009/03/200903310417.shtml. Part of the reason the cultural revolution went off to a high start was the fact that people were angry at the abuses committed by the state officials. In a sense, many of those officials killed during the cultural revolution deserved it.

Also, what do you think of the Ughyur riots? These rioters are most likely spies, traitors to the huaxia. Since 156 people are dead, I say that three rioters must be shot for every death. Several hundred should be shot or else these pigs will not know the meaning of justice. The more of them are shot, the better it is. Teeninvestor (talk) 01:28, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Teen, I do not agree with you comment  or else these pigs will not know the meaning of justice, CCP see itself as a new Tianchao Daguo, the Beijing policy makers see themselves as China's new emperor, there is no chance that all those Ughyur or Tibetens would get any fair treatments from the PRC at all. Give it another 50 years, both Tibet and Sinkiang will have Han people as the majority people, and the Ughyur and Tibetens will be pushed aside, or may be completely annihilated. This is my guess. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  06:30, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


 * that's my guess as well. Ughyur and Tibetans will likely become minorities in 30 years. However, you are wrong on their treatment. The PRC gives them too much benefits(don't apply to one-child policy, extra points on Gaoqao, etc...) that actually discriminates against Han.Teeninvestor (talk) 12:45, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Large numbers of para-military police.jpg
Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:Large numbers of para-military police.jpg. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the file description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 20:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Qin Shi Huang
Check out my new article Qin Shi Huang's wars of unification.Teeninvestor (talk) 17:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, you need to add some Chinese names, otherwise it could be a bit confusing.

What you think the Rio Tinto spy case? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  04:30, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Economic history of China (Pre-1911) Promoted to good article
Soon to be featured.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:54, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hello? Are you there?Teeninvestor (talk) 23:12, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, congradulation to you on this grand project. Well done. From this article it is very clear that the Mongols and Manchus did the worst damage to Han Chinese civilization. I hope there will be more editors like you who can contribute to Wikipedia, so that the true color of Manchus and Mongols come out. By the way I have add some Chinese words for you. I bet your parents are mighty proud of you. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  00:50, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't forget that Wu Hu is also devastating to CHinese civilization, prevented development for 270 years! THe only reason Wu Hu did not do more damage is because of Battle of Fei, when 80,000 heroic chinese troops stopped a barbarian army of 300,000+.Teeninvestor (talk) 13:57, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, this is the origin of 投鞭断流, 草木皆兵, 凤声鶴唳  <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  16:50, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

File:Petition by Chau Liang.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Petition by Chau Liang.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 23:43, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Chinese Expeditionary Force
There is an article here Chinese Expeditionary Force in Burma. Blueshirts (talk) 00:11, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Blueshirts. Please have a look at 中國遠征軍. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  02:03, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi, you need me to translate?
Hi Arilang! 好久不見. 你好嗎?

I'm having a hard time making an exact English translation of the specific army unit "中國遠征軍", since a rough English translation would be something like "Chinese Long-distance Army Divisions". Yet the English version of this article is Chinese Expeditionary Force in Burma. Burma is obviously mentioned nowhere in the label "中國遠征軍", but the way these troops were used was the determining factor in the English article title "Chinese Expeditionary Force in Burma" (i.e. they were to specifically fight in Burma against the Japanese during WWII). I think "Chinese Long-distance Army Divisions" is a sensible translation, but don't take my word for it; try to find a credible published source which translates this phrase into English. There might be a standard translation of this phrase out there that is something other than "Chinese Expeditionary Force in Burma".-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 02:08, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

PoA, I agree with you the "Chinese Experitionary Force in Burma" is not good enough. Emperor Han Wu once said: 犯强汉者，虽远必诛. This 遠征軍 has similiar meanings. May be we should begin a naming consensus? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  02:45, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, only if that naming consensus is based on published sources, not just our opinions about how it should be named. I'll snoop around and try to find some sources in books and journal articles online; hopefully this subject won't be so obscure in English language sources that I don't find direct and explicit translations.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 02:58, 28 July 2009 (UTC)


 * My two cents here, I think "Chinese Expeditionary Force" is perfectly fine. I did a search using JSTOR and relevant results came up. I think the word "expeditionary" is appropriate here since the Chinese force was fighting on foreign soil, see Expeditionary warfare. But we have to differentiate between this and the China Expeditionary Army, which was the Japanese army operating in China. Blueshirts (talk) 03:04, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

X Force
Thanks to PoA and Blueshirts. Another name is X Force, shouldn't there be a better name? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang   talk  03:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Chinese armies (Pre-1911)
Revamped this article (was formerly military history of China). Come and look at it, maybe add a few pictures.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:42, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Please have a look Chinese Expeditionary Force中國远征軍.

 <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  22:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Ancient Egyptian literature
Hi Arilang, how's it going. Interested in seeing my latest project? Get a load of this: Ancient Egyptian literature. It has been months in the making on my private sandbox pages, but it is finally finished, and it looks beautiful. Please, have a look.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 09:12, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks PoA for your invitation on Ancient Egyptian things. I am afraid I know very little about Egyptian things, I better stick to things I know more, that is: Chinese history. Thanks anyway. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  09:40, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I didn't expect you to know much about ancient Egyptian literature; I just thought you might be interested in my latest work here. I do find it incredible that, in the early 2nd millennium BC, Egyptian scribes were writing fictional narrative tales like the Story of Sinuhe and Tale of the shipwrecked sailor. To make a comparison with the culture sphere that you and I are most interested in, it was not until the Han Dynasty that short-story fiction written for entertainment appears in Chinese literature.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 20:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It's a mystery why Egypt did not advance beyond these roots, despite a long head start. Egypt's palace economy and priest class, I suspect, hindered its development so that it was later surpassed by the Persians and Greeks. Indian development was a similar story. It was fortunate that lack of organized religion in China did not hinder its development so that China was the most advanced nation for 2,000 years, until the conquest of the Manchus.Teeninvestor (talk) 02:06, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, one could argue that there was no organized church for the Shang, Zhou, and Qin, and that China did not have a formal ideology which intertwined the ruler with natural cycles and will of heaven until the Han Dynasty and Dong Zhongshu's cosmology. The earliest organized, hierarchical church were the Daoist organizations of Eastern Han, which eventually became subversive and rebelled (and didn't last for long). However, you can't make the same argument for Chinese Buddhism, an organized religion which was in fact sponsored by the state and ruler. In fact, the Daoist church was sponsored by the state as well. These, of course, had little to do with the merchant sphere. I'd like to talk more, but I got to go! Cheers.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 02:28, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * You know what sounds awesome? The konghou 箜篌, if it is played right. Enjoy the video in that link; the lady musician in it, Liu Yaning, is very good at her craft!-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 20:27, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the video link on" Konghou", PoA, that music is great. But somehow I prefer "East meet West" music, like this one:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVMXEnL8liM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSnMxEnkfXg&feature=related This one even better PoA.

When Titanic the movie was first shown in China(about 10 years ago), it created a kind of "Culture shock", because ordinary Chineses were under communist indoctrination for too long, specially during the "Cultural Revolution" era, every Chinese was subjected to "Class struggle", and every Chinese was in the lookout for "Class enemy", and "Titanic the movie" was like a breath of fresh air into the then Chinese closed society.

女子十二樂坊 Twelve girls band. What I mean is, I would like if one day Chinese musical instruments can be used to paly classical music of Mozart, wouldn't it be nice? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  07:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi Arilang. Sorry, but I forgot about this post and did not check your user page until just now. Thanks for sharing those videos; beautiful music indeed. And on your other point, I think it would be awesome to hear Mozart on classical Chinese instruments. Which reminds me, have you ever seen this before? From Mao to Mozart: Isaac Stern in China (1981). It's a pretty cool documentary about the renewed acceptance and reintroduction of classical music in China during the late 70s, shortly after Mao's death.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 22:05, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * About Titanic the movie, I knew it was a huge blockbuster hit in China, but I was not aware that it was such a huge culture shock per say. Which makes me wonder why Kung Fu Panda was such a huge hit in China. I think it's pretty as a kids' movie and another Jack Black comedy, but was unprepared for the reaction within China about how all the producers and filmmakers need to rethink their whole craft and challenge the government censors who make things way too bland in regards to creative entertainment. The Chinese probably think the same why I do about "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," as in they thought "why the hell did this movie become so big in the States? It's really not that big of a deal here!" Lol. Cheers.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 22:10, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

From Titanic to Mozart
PoA, why Titanic was such a cultural shock in China: must watch video Do you agree? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  07:02, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Pure love story(more or less pure). In China(Maoist era), love was a dirty word. If a girl and a boy were from different classes (say one is a communist and the other is from KMT), then there shall be only hate, no love. The love between Jack and the Rose was like fresh air to the then Chinese.
 * 2) Life boat scene:Children and women first. That was a bit of shock to the Chinese, because traditionary, WOMAN was always second-class citizen, communist or no communist. Children, do not always enjoyed good life either. During Chinese famine(ancient or modern times), there was a tradition called 易子而食, that means if people were too hungry, they would exchange sons/daughters, then you know what happened. Even today, there are still Black kiln slaves in China, where children of all ages are kidnaped and kept in illegal kilns, and worked untill they die, communist government couldn't care less.
 * 3) Captain died with sinking ship. In communist China, that was a NoNo, the communist leader should stay alive to fight another battle, if he die first in the plot, who is going to carry on the revolution?
 * 4) Band played on until the final minute. Chinese would never understand this scene.

Tianchao Daguo
Merely what China deserves. As a nation that has led the world for 2,500 years, China's elevation to this position is merely a restoration of the historical trend. All that is needed is to continue and expand the free market policies of Deng Xiaoping(which Wen Jiabao reversed some of).Teeninvestor (talk) 14:36, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Teen, if you watch the Lateline video link, both Pual Monk and professor are highly critical of what PRC government is doing on the Stern Hu case. Before China can ever hope to become Tianchao Daguo again, they need to play the internation game acccording to the internation law, they cannot behave as if there is no law at all. What you think? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  19:51, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * What is international law? International Law is the law of the strong. The weak has no say in it. Was there International law when the British shipped opium to China? When Europe uses carbon taxes as protective tariffs? When the Americans subjugated Iraq and Afghanistan and killed over a million people? When the US denied CHina was a market economy? In international affairs, the only thing that counts is your strength. There is no law. Of course, I don't advocate an aggressive foreign policy(China should keep to her own affairs and develop), but when the west criticizes China of not respecting international law, they are blatant hypocrites.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:44, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * To a large extent, Teen makes a good point, and this reality becomes magnified and compounded during wartime. I'll tack on another example. Although the Japanese clearly violated international law during WWII, if not the rules of respecting common humanity, that still doesn't excuse the act of the Truman administration to deliberately target two heavily-populated civilian areas for total annihilation simply to put a fright into the Ruskies whose forces were at the time approaching from the west to face Japan. The imperial regime in Japan, lacking resources and even domestic morale (despite the belief that the emperor was a living god), was in its final death throws and would have collapsed under such huge pressure from both directions, the US and Russian fronts. For this it could be said that the atom bombs were dropped not to save American G.I.'s, but to make a point on the international stage. This is clearly supported by recorded testimony of Truman snidely remarking that he would no longer have to go overseas to make deals, the Russians would now have to come visit him in Washington. This for hundreds of thousands of innocent lives.
 * Still, I have to disagree with Teen about strength being the only factor which makes a country successful on the international stage, and we should also clarify types of strength instead of applying it vaguely. Teen mentions Afghanistan and Iraq, which are obviously examples of America's military strength, but what did my country's "preemptive strike" against Iraq provide the US with? Not only a tarnished reputation throughout much of the world, Islamic and non-Islamic included, but it arguably made the Russians that much bolder when invading Georgia last year (we'd be hypocrites to rail against them after what we had recently done). By default the U.S. continued to maintain economic primacy in world affairs, but Bush became so demonized overseas that he had very little political clout in getting the ball rolling for his geopolitical agenda. Many foreign leaders did not want to touch him with a ten foot pole, let alone stand in the same photo op. Yet the more serious, tangible effect of this was the very limited economic and military support given to Bush and now Obama for the war effort in Afghanistan and Iraq. Let's face it, the Coalition of the Willing is a tiny coalition indeed, fraught with many premature withdrawals, most notably Spain and Britain from Iraq. This is because at the end of the day, the leaders of Spain and Britain have to answer to their constituents, not the president of the United States. So even with all its military power, economic prowess, and international potential, by making a series of geopolitical blunders and ignoring international opinion, the U.S. now finds itself in the awkward position of slowly rebuilding the world's trust while having to manage two wars largely on its own (although Iraq seems to be simmering down as of late). On his domestic policies, especially economic, I have many bones to pick with Obama, but when it comes to the international game of building alliances and gaining the trust of even foreign constituents who then pressure their political leaders, Obama is turning out to be a successful president, even if he is one of a now downgraded U.S. empire. This has enormous consequences, especially in the Islamic world, where America is most hated (perhaps rightly so), but if Obama remains tough even with allies such as Israel and gets them to make substantial concessions to the Palestinians, it will be a truly lasting legacy.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 23:03, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Strength is not the only factor but my original point is that the concept of having to obey "international law" applies only to weak nations. The great powers never obey the "laws" they set. I've already provided an example above of the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, but I'll provide another example. Despite being a signatory of many free trade agreements and proclaiming itself the nation of liberalism, the U.S. engages in many destructive protectionist policies including agricultural subsidies, "Cap and trade", quotas for imports, and general tariffs. This is called "Just" for "preserving Jobs"(These guys obviously dont know what is good economics is). But if a small African country resorts to these policies, it is called protectionist and the country is boycotted or blockaded. The only hope for a uniform standard of "international law" is if statism is abolished and all states are restricted to their rightful function(providing defense, justice and maybe some public goods necessary for security), making all nations into liberal utopias. Only then will a satisfactory state of affairs prevail.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:15, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Once again you give good examples, but I don't think the solution has to be so drastic as abolishing statism in the hope of creating a utopia; I simply think that the superpowers ruling and leading other nations by tactics of persuasion instead of coercion is a better geopolitical model which gives the smaller players some dignity and reduces international tension. Protectionist policies are inherently coercive and don't play off the self interests of the foreign countries trying to do business, which would be a wiser approach.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 02:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * By statism I meant state interference in the economy, such as the welfare state, regulations and protectionist policies. I certainly am not an anarchist.Teeninvestor (talk) 13:38, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

仁政 or 暴政
If there is going to be a opinion poll (fair and square) to be conducted in PRC today, I am quite sure majority of the people would say that PRC nowaday is a 暴政, because the present rulers treat the Baixing like s***, everybody know that. Now, Teen, I would like to stress that, no matter how many innocent people the US did kill oversea, how many atom bombs they did drop on foreign soil, how many governmental heads did CIA murdered, the fundamental point is, the US government treat it's own citizens like human beings. This is the strength of America, and is the major reason why nearly all the communist Chinese leaders, either themself, or their children, they all have USA citizenship; if not, then Canadian citizenship, or British citizenship(at least Hong Kong passport). What I am saying, is, the official communist Chinese line is anti-USA, anti-France, anti-British, and now anti-Australia, but the communist themself, they(and their children) all try their best to obtain foreign passports, what a bunch of hypocrits!
 * 1) Teen, throughout ancient Chinese history, roughly there were only two kind of government:(1) 仁政 translation:kind to the Baixing and (2)暴政 translation: treat Baixing like dirt, like ants.
 * 1) It is wrong to cite British export opium and use it as a excuse to blame foreign imperialist for all the suffering of Chinese, because back then opium was not classified as a narcotic, it was a commonly used drug then, and the Manchu government itself was growing it in China, the only difference was the imported(or smuggled) had a better quality, that was why all the siver of Qing ended up in England. Teen, it is wrong to attach morality to Opium war, basically it was because the Qing had lost on the power of free market, because the imported opium was of a better grade than the local brand, that was all.
 * 2) Now we come back to Stern Hu case, again, the communist government did not play the free market economy game, by simply arrested (without charge) a high power officer of a multinational company Rio Tinto, comparable to Manchu rulers during Boxer rebellion. China is a regional power, at least in South East Asia, that means China can bully Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, to some extent, but to bully Australia? It is a bit far-out, don't you think? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang   talk  01:55, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Opium was definitely  NOT  a legal drug, and shipping it into a country is just plain wrong. The Qing Dynasty definitely did not make Opium, as Opium was  Prohibited  in China, even under the Manchus, under penalty of death. And as U.S. treating its own citizens better than the PRC treating its citizens? Look at the "relative" non-intereference the Chinese state has in economic affairs in one hand, and the massive intervention, robbery and taxes that the U.S. implemented. Taxation in the US is almost twice as heavy as China, and new taxes are being added(Such as "cap and trade"). Not only that, the US government wiretaps its citizens and install viruses on their computers. This is hardly "treating its citizens like human beings". Of course, the PRC government isn't benevolent as well, but calling the PRC 暴政 and the US 仁政 is hardly correct. The only 仁政 there can be is small government, like the Ming and Eastern Han. On a side note, Stern Hu was arrested because he is a  spy which would be arrested in any country. Teeninvestor (talk) 13:50, 12 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Teen, at least one thing you are wrong:Stern Hu is not a Spy.

BEIJING, China (CNN) -- Four employees of mining giant Rio Tinto have been formally arrested on charges of trade secrets infringement and bribery, China's state-run media reported Tuesday. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  20:48, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/08/11/china.riotinto/index.html

Cannibalism in modern China
Hi Arilang! Sorry that I didn't get back to you right away about this. If you are going to write an article about cannibalism in modern China, you should probably mention that famous work about cannibalism by the literary master Lu Xun (魯迅). As for encyclopedic tone and structure, you should not have sentences which pose questions for the reader or have question marks. Other than that it looks like the article is off to a good start. Oh, and by the way, Ancient Egyptian literature is now a featured article! Yippee! Cheers.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 20:28, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (File:Green Dam Youth Escort internet cartoon.jpg)
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New image
Hi Arilang. Thanks for sharing that image you've uploaded of an American fighter pilot about to sit down for dinner with some generous hosts during wartime. According to the image caption for the lead image in the article for blood chit, the Flying Tigers wore a blood chit with the Republic of China flag, being a private group working for the Republic of China Air Force. Cheers.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 16:46, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * PoA, I am glad you like it.

More images here: Blood chit. Among many Chinese netizens, USA was, and is Chinese's best friend because of USA's contributions towards China during the Second Sino-Japanese War. But the whole relationship was turned upside down when Mao Zedong came to power, and PRC began to behave like a robot controlled by Comintern, hence Moscow. This is the saddest chapter in 3000 years of Chinese history.  <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  20:10, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Arilang, please don't believe everything you read
You know I am no fan of socialism, but saying that US is China's best friend, Stalin set up the SSJW, and Mao was a robot of Stalin is just ridiculus. Mao= power hungry dictator, who wouldn't share power with anyone,  including Stalin. U.S. wasn't too great with China with interventions in 1860, 1927 and attempted subversion in 1989. Stalin didn't have time or energy to set up SSJW(he was busy shooting all his generals). By the way, I've nominated Economic history of China (pre-1911) for FA. Teeninvestor (talk) 13:09, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Jin Yong
I have commented at the article's talk page to show my outrage. Who can freckin' claim that the Qing was better than Ming? Sheesh.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:17, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Deng Xiaoping
What is your opinion on him? I am curious.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:16, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

commons:User:Arilang1234

Teen, my opinion: POSITIVE: NEGATIVE: Using the Open Door Policy to make his own family Super Rich, hence all the high ranking communist officials using Deng as a example, the result is today Chinese communist officials are the most corrupted government in the world. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  02:56, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) As a communist, Deng was better than Mao, Lin Biao, Zhou Enlai, and Liu Xiaoqi, as these four commies were very active in fighting each other during Cultural Revolution. Deng was more of a victim. That means he didn't do much evil.
 * 2) In the 50s-60s, Communist China was active in Exporting revolution, many agents were sent to South East Asia to stir up s**t. A special and powerfull short-wave broadcasting radio was set up in Yunnam(more powerfull than then Voice of America, as they tried to jam each other's signal), which was broadcasting propaganda stuff, 24-7, in all the Chinese dialects, mandarin, cantonese, hakka, hockkian, hainam, you name it, they have it.(One of the many reasons why South East Asian governments hate the local Chinese) Deng put a stop to it during his first visit to Singapore when Lee Kwangyew made a personal complaint. He also stopped sending and supporting agents in Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand.

I'd think Deng's main contribution is that he started the open door policy, which ENRICHED Chinese a lot. The corruption of his own family, I think, is a small price to pay for the prosperity resulting from that. He also reversed all of Mao's policies and put them in toilet(where they belong).Teeninvestor (talk) 12:20, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Hey Arilang! How's it going
Hah! I love that episode. The Simpsons is still sharp and funny after many years on the air. And thanks for wishing me good luck in my venture to China. It's about time that I went! Cheers.

P.S. Thanks for the Mao picture with all the lovely ladies surrounding him! Lol. Good stuff.-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 00:23, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

PoA, though you may not be another Marco Polo, once you are in China, and if you ever got into any debate about China-USA-USSR relationship discussion(more than likely you will), if you stress that you are from the land of Flying Tigers and The Hump, instantly you will have a lot of friends. Trust me. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  03:05, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Hey man, thanks for the links. I picked up "大江大海1949" when it came out and finished reading it. It's totally awesome! It's not just about mainlanders in Taiwan, but all those who were swept up in that great era. Blueshirts (talk) 01:28, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Things I don't like in the video

 * 1) Why Lung Yintai bowed so many times during the opening and closing of the video? She is a professor, there is absolutely no need to bow to her students, more over the bow was more than 90 degrees, her forehead almost touched the ground. I hate this bow, whatever it means.
 * 2) The quality of those student's questions are terrible, and shamefull. All the questions seem to cast doubt on her, and none of the questions even dare to touch the crucial elements, i.e., what did happen at 1949? Why were CCP soldiers killing all those KMT soldiers? More importantly, Chinese(where ever they may be, mainland, Taiwan, or oversea) should ask the question, OK, CCP came to power, by hook or by crook, fair enough, but then terrible things happened, the Mao started Zhen Fan, targeting ex-KMT members, god knows how many millions were massacred. Now PRC 60th birthday is approaching, Chinese(Mainland, Taiwan, Overseas) seem to prefer to ignore this part of history, it is very strange. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  05:06, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know man, I didn't watch the entire video, can you give me some examples on the students' questions? But I do believe most young people (our generation) aren't appreciative of what our previous generations went through. I think they tend to ask stupid questions, attempting to "discredit" Lung, because that's the easiest way to ask questions. "How do you prove it?" It would be hard to ask deep questions like what are the impacts on society, conflicts between various groups, and so forth. The book actually has many passages on communist war crimes, like the siege of Changchun, which killed about the same number as the Nanking Massacre (a fact the author emphasizes). She also mentioned several people who stayed behind were forced to work in reeducation camps. But I think the main focus of the book is on the people on both sides of the KMT-CCP conflict, the mainlanders' experience, and the culture shock between the mainlanders and the Taiwanese. That's why she did not dwell on Zhen Fong and the 30~70+ millions that the communists killed after it came to power. Blueshirts (talk) 06:06, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * 1) "the siege of Changchun", yes, only recently I read about it on internet forum. If there is no wiki yet on this topic, may be we should co-write one? User Teeninvestor would like to write on military theme too. Since you have the book at hand, you can cite the book easy.
 * 2) The real PLA's military history is not what they want us to believe to be, there were a lot of dirty things happen during the CCP-KMT civil war. Like 人海戰術, which was a very dirty tactic, usually the first wave would be war captives, women and children. Just consider this fact, during the whole SSJW, the Red Army suffered only ONE officer death on battle field, this could only means all the Red Army millitary commanders would stay away from the front-line during military clashes, that is if there was one.
 * 3) Recently I spend a fair bit of time on wikisource, s:zh:作者:中國共產黨中央委員會 and read a lot of SSJW CCP 宣言 and 告全體同胞書 . What I have found out is, to my astonishment, the CCP themself admited that the main goal of CCP, during the war(not before or after) was to fight the KMT, not to fight the Japanese too much.
 * 4) CCP planted a lot of spies in NRA, the main reason why NRA lost the civil war. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  07:53, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Re:
I've already seen My Chief and My Regiment a long while ago... ;D -- <font style="color:#FFFF00;background:red;"> 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email 12:11, 29 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the link, I did not know before. Please have a look:


 * China Burma India Theater of World War II
 * Sun Li-jen
 * China Expeditionary Force
 * Chinese Army in India
 * Salween River Bridge
 * Merrill's Marauders
 * Flying Tigers

May be a few more wiki on this theme need to be created? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  15:58, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * That show is awesome! I've never seen Chief. Then again, it is a new show. The production quality is excellent and the gunfights sound real. Thanks for sharing, Arilang. Cheers!-- Pericles of Athens  <font color="#0000CD">Talk 12:00, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks PoA for your comment. Please have a look:My Chief and My Regiment, if a team is created consists of you, Teen, Blueshirt, and Benlinsquare, plus others, I think we can work out a few wikis with this China-Burma-India Theatre background? You can be the team leader, or Master Chief(of Halo fame). On the subject of Video Game, quite a few battle scenes in My Chief and My Regiment make me think of video game graphic, you think so? By the way, for 60 years (since commie came to power in 1949), this is the first time ever that American GI is put in Postive Light in any Chinese movie and TV. This is definitly a major breakthrough.

 <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  12:20, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

ROC flags
Now that the color issues were solved, now I am going to redraw the flags not only with the new colors, but also with construction sheets, such as this one for the president. If you and others can help me find them, that would be good. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:17, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

hi
Hi Arilang, I don't know much about either topics, what's wrong with them? Blueshirts (talk) 05:33, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Nothing wrong, these 2 articles are both created by me, I thought you might be interested to add content, that is all.  <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  05:45, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Did you know?
Did you know that there was something here on WP called Did you know?

Check it out - these are little rewards for new articles and for work which substantially add to stubs. You create quite a few articles, and these DYKs are a bit like scouting badges you can collect. The added benefit is that these drive traffic to new articles, of the order of 4,000 hits. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 16:26, 13 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks Ohconfucious for the tip. One question, what about articles I have created months ago, would them be eligible for Did you know? <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  20:34, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * No, there's a five day moratorium. However, if you created a stub ages ago, and expanded it by more than 5-fold in the last 5 days, it would qualify too. Ohconfucius  ¡digame! 09:13, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Lou Jin.jpg
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Tuanpai
As you can see, I have been making some major changes at Tuanpai. I think there should be an overview at the CPC page to give some context to these supposed factions. The Chinese Wikipedia article says that Tuanpai is basically a Chinese version of the UK's Labour Party or the Democratic Party of the United States, which I thought was a very interesting analysis. Colipon+ (Talk) 15:52, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks user Colipon. To fully understand CCP is a very difficult task, as from the beginning until now, CCP has always been covered under a veil of secrete and myth. Take for example in Hong Kong, there still are 共產地下党員 "underground members". Hong Kong had been taken over by the mainland since 1997, and CCP members dare not reveal their true political stance, isn't it rediculous?

Regarding the statment "Tuanpai is basically a Chinese version of the UK's Labour Party or the Democratic Party of the United States", I would dispute it. According to what I have read(mostly internet blogs), CCP is not a "normal" western political party as we understand in the west, neither is CCP a "Marxist Lennin revolution party". What exactly is CCP? A bunch of power hungry, and money hungry Chinese, sit down and decide who get what, sort of Chinese Mafia gang. So when CCP being not-a-normal political party, then Tuanpai can never be a normal western style political party, such as Labour Party or Democratic Party.

Another thing about Chinese wikipedia, is not like our English wikipedia either, because Chinese wikipedia has fallen into the hand of a bunch of Mainland based editors, and many of them are over-jealous, who would try their best to turn Chinese wikipedia into the front of Chinese communist government propaganda department, namely 中宣部. It is really a very sad story, seeing that Chinese wikipedia has been controlled by a bunch of communists. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  04:03, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Two misconceptions. Firstly, of course Tuanpai is not the same as Labour or the Democrats. But the analysis merely states that their policy goals seem similar - all want social cohesion, get rid of imbalance etc. Secondly, Chinese wikipedia is actually controlled by Hong Kong and Taiwan editors, because during its growth phase, it was banned in the mainland completely, and thus discouraged or prevented a lot of mainlanders from using the site. As a result, many articles actually have an anti-PRC slant, not a pro-Communist one. Mainlanders hardly use the Chinese wikipedia at all. They prefer sites like Baidu Baike or Hudong. Colipon+ (Talk) 10:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Feng Zheng-Hu
Hello! Your submission of Feng Zheng-Hu at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva"> Intelligent  sium  02:40, 18 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I've fixed it. As a suggestion, you should consider creating articles in userspace, and only moving them to Mainspace when it has reached 1500 characters, which is one of the criteria for consideration at DYK. Follow the link to find the tool which measures the defined length. Ohconfucius  ¡digame! 02:26, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Replaceable fair use File:Feng-Zhenghu-001.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Feng-Zhenghu-001.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:


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DYK nomination of Feng Zhenghu
Hello! Your submission of Feng Zhenghu at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Materialscientist (talk) 05:03, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

PS Suggest archiving your talk page (278k long!)

Mao: The Unknown Story
Please don't edit war. I reverted your earlier edit, with an explanation, and you just totally ignored me and went on to add more not-quite-relevant links. If you disagree, please start a discussion at the talk page. Thank you, <b class="Unicode">r ʨ anaɢ</b> talk/contribs 18:46, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Chinese wiki
Hi, do you also edit on Chinese wiki? That place has been gradually overtaken by misguided PRC supporters. Check the chinese page on Chinese Civil War, particularly the section on "war responsibility" that's chock full of OR. Chinese wiki sucks compared to English wiki, but still...Blueshirts (talk) 19:11, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, zh:wiki are full of wumaodang, and I did have very bad feeling over there. At the moment I only add links and images there. However, zh:wikiquote and zh:wikisource do not have many womaodang, especially wikiquote, there is nobody there to delete things. May be you like to try your luck there? Commons is also a good place to work, and the beauty of commons is we are free to add a bit of text next to the image, sometimes it helps. <font style="color:white;background:#fe0000;"> Arilang  talk  21:01, 25 November 2009 (UTC)