User talk:CaroleHenson/Archive 8

Books and Bytes - Issue 9
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Issue 9, November-December 2014 by, ,

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NAN Ranch
CarolHenson, you are either the fastest researcher and composer in the world OR you had all this waiting! I am very, very grateful to you for granting my dearest wish and creating a NAN Ranch article while re-naming the NAN Ranch Ruin. I hope you will consider it a compliment if I add information or edit.


 * Hi, thanks ! The National Register of Historic Places nomination form provided most of the information - which made it a breeze! I think it's fine to make minor edits, but because you are a connected contributor (i.e., have a conflict of interest), it's best to post requested additions or changes on the talk page with a source and I can make those changes. See Talk:David Harding (finance).--CaroleHenson (talk ) 18:26, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

A note on the architecture of the house: In the 1990s, we found the original linen plans in the El Paso Public Library's Southwestern Collection. We had always assumed Trost was the architect, but although there is a connection to Trost & Trost, for whom he worked for a short time, the plans indicate that Guy Frazer was the architect. He had worked earlier for Trost. By the late 20s, Trost had moved almost exclusively to institutional and commercial architecture, including hotels, office buildings, schools, and even La Tuna federal prison, and apparently was no longer working with residences. Guy Frazer also designed the Radford School in El Paso and various commercial and institutional buidings in the region. We have copies of the plans and when I have time I'll make PDFs of some key pages, upload, and provide a link.

--CaroleHenson (talk ) 18:26, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
 * The NRHP Nominiation form and other sources, which probably gained their info from the nomination form, say that the architect was Trost & Trost - and specifically mentioned Henry C. Trost. I wonder if Henry C. Trost took on the project as senior architect - to be worked by Guy Frazer? Can you help with the information about the source to make a citation for Guy Frazer? Perhaps call the library to clarify the info and then we can use the day that you call as the accessdate. It seems:

In case you become interested in Trost & Trost -- whose work we find fascinating and wonderful! -- I can suggest some material: we live in a Trost in El Paso (from 1917) and our neighbor, an architect, is probably the most knowledgeable expert on Henry Trost and his work.


 * Wow, that's very interesting! Unfortunately, asking him a question is WP:Original research, which is not allowed, but perhaps we can find a source about when Guy Frazer worked for Trost & Trost.--CaroleHenson (talk ) 18:26, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I found two - one that said that Frazer worked for Trost in 1923 and that he was chief architect by 1938. I wouldn't be surprised that Trost would want to take on what is equivalent to a $4 million project today and included residential and commercial buildings, but delegated the actual architectural work. That might be good to confirm with your friend. But, it's seeming like we can make the connection between Frazer and Trost & Trost. Of course, if he/she has something already published about this, that could be used.--CaroleHenson (talk ) 18:38, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I'll be changing my user name as you requested, and again, we so very much appreciate your work.

BL NANRanch1 (talk) 17:58, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Great, my pleasure!--<font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 18:26, 5 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I moved this to the article talk page to preserve the history of changes / reasons / etc. there. Please respond at Talk:NAN Ranch. Thanks!!!--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 19:06, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Hey! I saw that you were willing to adopt newbies. I'm a new editor and still trying to get my footing here. I could really use some help navigating the editing community and figuring out the best way to contribute to wikipedia. Twistthespine (talk) 18:37, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

==List of people from Northwest Territories--
 * Kristine here. Can you start the page about the List of people from Northwest Territories and I'll add to it? I'm ready to it. Venustar84 (talk) 18:32, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

NAN Ranch
Hello, Carol -- I hope this is the right way to answer your message(s).

As to the user name change, and the name of the page: Here's my situation: my family are owners since the 1940s of the NAN Ranch (including the NAN Ranch ruin) and we intend to establish a wikipedia page on the ranch itself. The existing page that is called NAN Ranch is really about the ruin, not the ranch. Certainly we can do a disambiguation re-direct on this article about the ruin, but our preference would be to change its name to NAN Ranch Ruin and be able to use the name NAN Ranch for an article about the ranch, its history, and more. I used the username NANRanch1 because that is a gmail address we use at the ranch.


 * I've moved the article for you. You're right that it should have been named NAN Ranch Ruin.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 00:02, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I did not look up the references to Harry Shafer's book on the C.B. Cosgrove information, and I do not dispute that the information might be there, but it is not correct that the Cosgroves were owners of the NAN. The NAN brand was associated with an early owner of the ranch, but that is not relevant as it was not Cosgrove or anyone associated with him. The Cosgroves whetted their appetite digging on a property they owned, but their big project was the Swarts Ruin, now on the NAN as well. I don't know if it was already part of the NAN Ranch when they excavated it; a family named Swarts had a store and home by the road at that location, and the ruin was in their field, now ours.


 * Ok, I'll find some sources to correct this information and add a note about this discrepancy.

Harriet Cosgrove was very likely to driver of the Cosgroves' scientific endeavors. She is listed as first author on the Peabody Museum book, and that would be unusual for the day unless it was acknowledged that she acted more or less as principal investigator. Her methods are not today's methods, but her (and her husband's) work remains important. Anecdotally, I always heard growing up about "Mrs. Cosgrove's digging;" I'd never known the Cosgroves' work to be considered "his" work.


 * Yep, it makes sense to mention her work, just not the way it was handled. I can work on that.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 00:02, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I mean no disrespect for your work setting up a page to put the NAN Ranch Ruin on the map; I'm glad to see it.

Please let me know what your view is of changing the page's name to NAN Ranch Ruin, and allowing us the use of the name of our family ranch. I don't believe this would in any way diminish your page.


 * No, of course not. As I mentioned, I highly recommend that you change the user name - and since there is a conflict of interest in creating the NAN Ranch article, I am happy to work with you on it. See Conflict of interest.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 00:02, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks.

NANRanch1 (talk) 23:48, 4 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I've inserted my responses above.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 00:02, 5 December 2014 (UTC)


 * NANRanch1, regarding the NAN Ranch article, I started a discussion at Talk:NAN Ranch.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 00:11, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

GA Cup - The Finals
--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:00, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year!
<div style="background:orange; padding: 10px; border-top: 3px solid yellow; border-left: 3px solid yellow; border-right: 3px solid yellow; border-bottom: 3px solid yellow 8px; font-size: 110%; font-family:Tahoma; text-align: center;"> Dear, HAPPY NEW YEAR Hoping 2015 will be a great year for you! Thank you for your contributions! From a fellow editor, FWiW  Bzuk (talk) 20:51, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

This message promotes WikiLove. Originally created by Nahnah4 (see "invisible note").

Happy Holidays!
A bit of a form letter from me to you (don't go poking around in my edit history or it'll get even more obvious how much of a form letter it is!) to wish you happy holidays, a Merry Christmas, a Happy Hanukkah, a Happy December, Happy Snow, Happy Sunshine, and an otherwise generally happy end to 2014. Thanks for all the constructive editing, support and civil discourse. Here's to another year of assuming good faith of one another. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:41, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Merry Christmas
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 Jim Car ter  is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

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Season Greetings
I wish you all happiness, a peaceful Holiday and a prosperous New Year. All the best, <em style="font-family:Verdana;color:DarkBlue">w.carter <em style="font-family:Verdana;color:DarkBlue">-Talk  10:31, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy Lucia!
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:#B8860B; background-color:#FAFAD2; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

Happy Saint Lucia's day!

"Good Morning" CaroleHenson: Thanks for all of your contributions to improve Wikipedia! 13 December is the day when Swedes perplex the rest of the world by showing up way too early in the morning dressed in white tunics, candles in their hair, singing and bringing saffron buns and breakfast in bed to nice people. Hope you have a bright day! – <em style="font-family:Verdana;color:DarkBlue">w.carter <em style="font-family:Verdana;color:DarkBlue">-Talk  00:39, 13 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks, !-- CaroleHenson (talk) 02:24, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to be adopted by you
Hi, I'm writing my first article about a website that I use a lot. I've already inserted all the references, but I have a problem with the 'infobox website'. I'd like to add the logo and a screenshot but I don't understand how to do it. I've searched on different help pages, but I still have problems.

Do I need to upload the logo and the screenshot on the common area? But I think it's not correct, because I have to say that they are free to use. A logo as got copyright on it, not everybody can use it, I suppose.

If you can help me with this issue I will thank you forever!

Sorry for my english, I'm italian :-)

ciao!

--Sailor sailaway (talk) 11:23, 4 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi, Sure. I'll answer on your talk page.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'><font color=' #4997D0'>CaroleHenson (<font color=' #4997D0'>talk ) 19:13, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Precious again
<div style="margin: auto; max-width: 60em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba( 192, 192, 192, 0.75 ); border-radius: 1em; border: 1px solid #a7d7f9; margin-bottom: 1em; padding: 0.5em 1em 1em; color: black;" class="ui-helper-clearfix"> <div style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; background-color: #ddd; border: 5px solid #ddd; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); border-radius: 0.5em;"> visual arts and Colorado prehistory

Thank you for quality articles on Colorado prehistory, visual arts, and their people, such as Olive Trees, Owl Woman and Florence Riefle Bahr, for a clear presentations of your contributions and a personal welcome of new users, for the gnomish work to add more precise categories, for turning a review into actively the article, and for quoting "He who breathes deepest lives most." - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 24 January 2014 (UTC) A year ago, you were the 733rd recipient of my  Pumpkin Sky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:14, 24 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks,, that's very nice of you!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 15:27, 24 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I remember we talked about the legendary infobox wars then, - they entered the realm of satire ;) (Even Handel has one now, - probably too late for GFHandel.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:41, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

About Cheyenne, Colorado
Hello! A comment about the DAB page Cheyenne, Colorado, which you tagged for deletion on the perfectly valid grounds that there is no such place as Cheyenne, Colorado: The concept seems possibly valid even if the name is wrong. What would you think about another name for this page? Possibly "Cheyenne (Colorado)"? I wouldn't favor a long explanatory title like "Colorado place names containing Cheyenne", but is there some other name we can think of that is both simple and intuitive? --MelanieN (talk) 17:17, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I am trying to think through the logic and ramifications of this. It would seem that could lead to lots of pages that have the same word in the title to have their own disambig page. It doesn't seem that is the intention of disambig page. How about if we take it to the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation page?-- CaroleHenson (talk) 17:22, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * That sounds good. I see that the article has been restored and speedy declined (I was going to decline it myself, mainly because I couldn't think of any category of speedy deletion that it qualified for). I think the folks at DAB will have useful input. --MelanieN (talk) 00:25, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ I cleaned up the page a bit to make it easier to read - and just posted an item at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 03:52, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Page move
Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give Cheyenne Mountain massif a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into Cheyenne Mountain. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page (the tab may be hidden in a dropdown menu for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Cut-and-paste-move repair holding pen. Thank you. --VeryCrocker (talk) 19:07, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Yep. Thanks for the merge tag for the history.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 19:10, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

About Cheyenne Mountain (disambiguation)
Hi Carole. I really should register the account that links back to me, as a repository of my many blunders, like this one. Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 12:09, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No worries, we've all been there.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 12:31, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

NAN Ranch Article - Terrific
Hello, Carole -- Most of your information about the ranch headquarters came, I believe, from the 1980s application to the NM preservation agency, and not all of it was correct. I really don't know who provided it to them. Here are some things I know something but not everything about:


 * 1) The old (Brockman[n]) homestead was not the house that that material describes, which was actually built in the 1910s era by the owner at that time. That information comes from a newspaper archive in the Silver City, NM City Museum, an article that I copied years ago but don't have at hand. It's on my list to look for. The Silver City Museum has a lot of stuff and depending on its management has often been extremely generous with research.
 * 2) The actual homestead, including the adobe home to which Bandolier refers in his Journals, was incorporated into the Big House (McElroy house) when it was built in the 20s. Frazier's plan shows existing walls, and the basement in the house was not extended beyond the original one, most of the much larger house having been mostly built over a crawl space. I have some of the plan pages on PDF, and could supply that if you wanted it. The 2-story home referred to in the material you source came later, and it incorporated a carriage house -- that's the actual 2-story part.
 * 3) John Brockman[n], referred to in the material as a customs agent from Mowry City. That may have been something he designated at one time, but Mowry City actually barely materialized as far as we can discover: it was more or less a land scam advertised "back East," and I think some folks did come and try to stay, but it didn't take. Maybe he was a local agent for them. I would sure love to know more about him. Other sources we'd found (and again I'm winging it but someday will have time to find it all) identify him as a banker in Silver City, and indicate some shady stuff. I'm not sure when Brockmann acquired the ranch, but suppose he did build the home Bandolier stayed in.
 * 4) The original NAN was started by a family named Lassiter; in fact that's where the NAN brand comes from, we are told: it may have been created and the ranch named after the wife of one of the Lassiter brothers. Their headquarters may not have been in the same place, though, but upriver a few miles.
 * 5) Regarding the Dwyer and Faywood confusion: we are considered to be at Faywood now. There was once a post office called Dwyer, and the Faywood post office was another 9 or 10 miles southwest near the Faywood Hot Springs. At some point the post office moved to its current location, nearer an older settlement called "Old Town," which is most of what's currently considered "Faywood." I'm sure there is some material available on it. Anyway, there is no more Dwyer. It might've been little more than a Postal Service/surveyors creation.

Thanks for all your work. -- BL 67.142.175.23 (talk) 19:50, 26 January 2015 (UTC)


 * numbered for response.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 21:42, 26 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, good to chat with you again!
 * Yes, if you could get your hand on some sources to clarify the information, that would be wonderful. Then, it can be reworded and add a note about the discrepancy with the NRIS info.
 * The blueprints could be very helpful - do they specifically mention the information about the homestead/adobe house?
 * Interesting info about Brockman/Mowry City/Silver City and see what I can find to add to a note.
 * I don't remember (off-hand) reading anything about the Lassiters but I'll poke around. If you find something, that would be great!
 * Yep, I remember the info about the post office move - and I updated the Dwyer or Faywood article. I made an update to the article and will find the source from that article for the change/note.
 * It's great having your input on this! It helps bring the history to life - and it will be good to clarify the incorrect information when you find the sources!!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 21:42, 26 January 2015 (UTC)


 * It looks like there was an A.M. Lasater from Texas who drove cattle into Grant County about 1882. His biography makes it sound as if this was a short-term enterprise. See here. In 1870, there was a Silas Lassiter at Fort Cummings in New Mexico, see here.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 01:08, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * 3 and 5 ✅. I couldn't find anything more about the Lasater/Lassiters or the origination of the NAN cattle brand.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 04:39, 27 January 2015 (UTC)


 * 67.142.175.23 I posted a question about items 1 and 2 at here.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 04:49, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

The information that you identified as erroneous has been removed - with a note added about the discrepancy in the NRHP nomination form.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 17:51, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 28 December
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California Gulch
Hi there, I think that you have two Colorado areas mixed together. I'm pretty sure that the photos that you are using are from another gulch in southwest Colorado. (See Alpine Loop National Back Country Byway ) I'm from Colorado (Leadville area) and have worked on several Colorado articles, and I know how confusing it can be to use present day names that do not agree with earlier ones, etc. Your California Gulch article aroused my interest to go back to work on an article that I have had on my to-do list for some time, Lake City, Colorado. While not familiar with SW CO, I did a DYK article on the The Saguache Crescent which led to some interest in the village of Saquache, which I did some work on. While working on those articles I had several marvelous chats with the Crescent editor-in-chief (and the only employee as we well :) and a woman who worked in real estate that knew the area very well. That led to interest in a man who had murdered several men (and probably eaten some of them) in a severe winter in the Lake City area. Ect., ect. BTW, I was delighted to find your invitation to join in a chat group and plan to make a post. Well, I could go on and on because while I left Colorado while still a teenager, it will always remain in my heart of hearts. Gandydancer (talk) 03:53, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, thanks so much! My brain should have been jogged by the number of California Gulch records that I found in GNIS -- but of course I totally forgot. Thanks to your help, I removed the image re: Animas Forks.


 * Regarding the other image, the filename includes Lake County and I was thinking Mt Elbert mentioned in the Sawatch Range article was near Leadville. Should this image be removed, too?


 * It's cool that you've kept a hand in some Colorado articles. I like the one about The Saguache Crescent! Yes, I'm glad that you mentioned the chat group, I should make the rounds with some folks to see if they're still interested in working on some Wikipedia articles. Nice chatting with you!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 04:38, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, that is Mount Massive. Are you thinking of doing any more articles related to this era/area?  I am thinking that I'd like to try writing my first article - Agusta Tabor (see Horace Tabor if you're not familiar).  I'm hoping you could help me...?  Gandydancer (talk) 05:00, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Writing an article about the generally unsung Augusta Tabor sounds like fun! I named one of my cats after Baby Doe (and another after Silverheels), but always felt the first Mrs. Tabor did not fair very well historically. How would you like to work together (i.e., split up the work on the article about Augusta)?-- CaroleHenson (talk) 05:59, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, there certainly is a great plenty of information on Agusta! I'd love to work on the article with you.  I wonder how we could best go about it?  Perhaps you could set it up but explain to me as you go along so that I'd learn how to do it on my own?  I'll warn you though, I can be as dumb as a stick when it comes to understanding even the most basic computer stuff, so much so that it embarrasses me.  I have several other ideas for articles:  The ghost town Winfield still does not have it's own article, nor does the Leadville ice palace - I know of at least one free photo for that.  Then there is a third idea, the Frenchman's Creek Ranch, for anyone that is interested in research as I don't know of anything other than this:    My sisters and I rode the same school bus as Norma - she was in the same grade as my older sister Therese.  Very excited!  BTW, if you care to say, where do you live?   Gandydancer (talk) 16:29, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Sure,, I'll start the shell of the article. I start by finding a good reliable source, like books, magazines, or newspaper articles to find information to help prove her notability. I've been cleaning up an article and have a bit more to do and I'll start looking for sources to prove her notability a bit later. If there's enough to prove notability I'll start the article, otherwise we could add some additional information to the Horace Tabor article about her life with Horace.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 17:22, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I have ordered one of the three books about her and there is also this re one of the books  I'll let you know when the book arrives.  Gandydancer (talk) 18:17, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Sounds great!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 19:08, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid that I was not very clear. I had hoped to write the article, my first, with help rather than you write the article and was surprised to see that you have started it.  Please go ahead and finish it.  Gandydancer (talk) 14:43, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi,. I am confused and so sorry that I overstepped what you thought I might do to help. There is so much material out there to write about her. At the moment, I've lost my interest, too - but maybe I'm just sad about it right now.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 16:51, 26 January 2015 (UTC)


 * It was a misunderstanding and can't be helped. Communication is difficult when one must use just a very few words with the other person filling in the spaces between...and both thinking that they're understanding...  It was not your fault or mine, just a communication problem.  Perhaps we can try again with another article?  In the meantime, I'd like some advise on how to find images since you seem pretty good at that?  (Your work is excellent and I'm lucky to have found you. :))  Best, Gandy  Gandydancer (talk) 17:26, 26 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes,, working on another article would be fine. It could be started in your User:Gandydancer/sandbox or another user page User:Gandydancer/Article name with the article name - and then move to article space later.


 * For me, a shell is a start of the article content with
 * Intro
 * A bit of info about the subject
 * References section
 * Default sort
 * Authority control, is the subject is a person
 * Persondata, if the subject is a person
 * Categories


 * If you'd like to start drafting another article, let me know how I can help and I'll be happy to help out in whatever way I can. If nothing else, Augusta Tabor, is an example of a start of an article.


 * Regarding pictures:
 * I first check commons to see if there are images there.
 * If you've taken a photograph, you can load it there using the wizard and then at the end of the process you get a template that can be copy and pasted into the relevant article.
 * If you're looking to add historical pictures, generally images in the public domain are those published before 1923 -- and I do a google search like this one and then check for the date of the images. Then, upload the image and check one of the options under "The copyright has definitely expired"
 * If you're wanting to add an image that was taken after 1923, it must be checked to see if it can be used according to Non-free content criteria and then load it into Wikipedia. I cannot be loaded into commons.


 * Again, I am happy to help and won't start anything again, I'll follow your lead. I am getting the sense that you're not wanting help with the content, but with formatting. We can discuss any questions you might have on the talk page of the draft in user space.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 17:57, 26 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I've used most of those sources (and The Library of Congress as well) but it is much too difficult for me to understand how to go about using some images.  For instance, this image from Google   It comes from a gov't site and I know from experience that even though the gov't site does not state a copy right does not automatically mean that its images are free to use.  Do you know a way to use this image?  Gandydancer (talk) 00:43, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


 * , It's good to hear from you, and I'm glad you're making good progress! Regarding the image, if it's this one, I don't see the photograph attributed to anyone, so I would assume that it's a government photo. In that case, you upload the image and, provide the (long....) link as the source, and then check off that it's a federal government source. If there's anything else I can do, I'd be happy to help out.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 00:55, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

When I try I get "internal error bad token" at commons. Would you give it a try? You can perhaps copy it to the talk page of the Lake City, Colorado page? Gandydancer (talk) 01:45, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Sure, I'll give it a try.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 02:14, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


 * It's done, I didn't know where to put it, but I figured it's easy enough to move to where you'd like. I don't know what the error message means, but I'll here's what I did: I went to the USFS page, then right clicked on the image, renamed the filename, and let the extension populate automatically based upon the original file type. Hopefully the steps I took help sort it out.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 04:37, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much and you've parked it in a good spot for now. In my plan for the article I want to add one last section on the tourist industry of present day Lake City including info on the scenic loop trail that starts and ends in Lake City, and I may use it at that time.  What I want to do is to go through the steps that you used to import the photo so that I can learn how to go about it for future photos, but I don't have time right now, but I will get to it soon.


 * Say, I asked a copy editor that has helped me in the past to go through the article. IMO he did a good job but I'm not at all happy with the way that he has added to the Alferd Packer section (the only section where he added info).  For one thing, we already have a Packer article, but for another, this incident was then, and even now, hyped so much that it is impossible to ever know fact from fancy.  It was my plan to have a little fun with it, but not overdo it.  Could you take a look at the way I wrote it up compared with the way it is now?  I'd like to remove much of what the copy editor added, certainly the poorly sourced "butcher knife" copy, for instance.  What do you think?  Gandydancer (talk) 15:28, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll work on it today.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 18:08, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and deleted what I didn't like with a "hope you don't feel bad" note for the editor. BTW, I got a notice that they plan to delete some of the photos that I added and some I added to the Granite, Colorado article as well.  This has happened to me before and when I asked for help they just ignored me.  Before the new way to import photos I spent hours and hours trying every which way to upload them but with the new system I thought I would no longer be getting a deletion notice.  It just makes me grit my teeth and feel like crying. I asked for help and will see what happens.  Gandydancer (talk) 23:28, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * , I am so sorry, I got totally engrossed in something and totally spaced on the Lake City article. Thanks for going ahead! Regarding the images, I like images, too. I think it helps bring the story to life.


 * One thing you may want to consider is whether the content and images is directly related to the subject. I don't think I remember seeing commons category in the External links section, but that's a way to allow readers to see more images related to the subject that are in category in commons.--00:47, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Emily Sartain
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Emily Sartain you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Wizardman -- Wizardman (talk) 23:41, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thanks -- CaroleHenson (talk) 18:10, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Emily Sartain
The article Emily Sartain you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Emily Sartain for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Wizardman -- Wizardman (talk) 00:01, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

2014-2015 GA Cup Wrap-Up
--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:17, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Looking for Assistance
...to Add a Wikipedia Page for a Prolific Pro Photographer, 80+ y/o

Hello Carole,

As the subject says, I am looking to get my friend Bettina Cirone, a prolific photographer in the 70's to just recently in NYC and elsewhere onto Wikipedia. She was published many times fro her writing, and MANY MANY times for her images in countless newspapers.

Yesterday for instance we were going through some of her work shooting famous photographers in their homes, including Andre Kertesz, Gordon Parks, Ron Gallela and etc. Please at your convenience Google her name and go to images for a fraction of her work!

Long story short, she was a prolific female pro, in a very tough male dominated business

Thank you so much for the possibility of giving me a hand in including her to the Wikipedia world

Best,

Thomas Courtney thomasmcourtney@gmail

--Tmcourtney (talk) 16:10, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, Yes, she definitely seems to be a notable woman. How would you like me to help?-- CaroleHenson (talk) 21:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Carole, thanks for your prompt response!

I would be thrilled if you could guide me through creating the first line to get her presence on Wikipedia. Bettina has some archived cutouts of her published pics and some articles she did on FLICKR here: https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=bettina%20Cirone

Best TC

--Tmcourtney (talk) 22:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, yes I can get it started. We can only use images if they are released into the public domain. If you or she could post images on https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page after you look at the public domain link, that would be great.


 * I can get the article started. I find a lot of sources for her, but it would be great to find a nice biography of her. Do you know of a good article or book for biographical info?-- CaroleHenson (talk) 23:37, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * just a comment from someone watching this talk page, but photos don't have to be in the public domain to be used on Wikipedia. We can also use photos which are also licensed through a number of acceptable schemes, most notably some of the Creative Commons licenses. If Ms. Cirone still retains the copyright on some of her images, and if she were willing to license them, they could be used. However, such a license is irrevocable, and others can also use any licensed images for their uses. Additionally, we can use a limited number of copyright-protected images under the principle of fair use, as long as each image complies with WP:NFCC, the non-free content criteria. The NFCC route is the strictest option, and public domain the easiest.  Imzadi 1979  →   01:24, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, !-- CaroleHenson (talk) 03:29, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello Carole, (AND THANKS FOR THE COMMENT Imzadi1979 )

I am waiting to hear back from Bettina in regards to a published/formal bio. There must be one somewhere, most likely printed out by her and not digitized. I will provide this ASAP.

In the meantime, Bettina was born August 19th 1933 in Bellevue Hospital NYC. She lived in Manhattan till she was 8, then moved to Bay Ridge Brooklyn, NY until the age of 21. She was a model shot by some prominent photographers and was a muse for Savador Dali, whom she also has some candid shots of in her archives, this is a blog by her (allowed??) in re: to that;  http://bettinaslens.blogspot.com/2011_01_01_archive.html

Carol and RE: Her images. Would this page of her images she had posted on GETTY IMAGES be sufficient in any way towards the page:

http://www.gettyimages.com/search/2/image?phrase=bettina+cirone&clarifications=&family=editorial&editorialproduct=&recency=

or the articles with her images the flickr acct?

https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=bettina%20Cirone

Thanks very much

TC --Tmcourtney (talk) 20:02, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi ,
 * No, blogs aren't considered reliable secondary sources. Books, magazines, and newspapers are much better. There are also internet sites, like museums, that are reliable sources (a lot on the sources on the web aren't considered reliable sources - it's really about whether there's editorial functions to verify the quality of the data.) I was at first feeling optimistic, because I got a number of book and news results - and of course web results, but on further examination the best article that I can find about her is regarding stolen property... which mentioned her work, but is not about her work. And, the books seem to have short blurbs about her, but I'm not finding a lot of information that explores her career in depth from reliable sources.
 * 1) Regarding the Getty images, they are copyright protected with the ability to purchase licensing rights. These are not free for use.
 * 2) Regarding the Flickr link, if you click on "License" and then "Creative Commons" then it shows that none of the images are approved for commercial use and/or modification.
 * 3) Here's a bit more information about requesting and getting images from Ms. Cirone: requests for images
 * 4) Optionally, as, we could use a non-free use image, under specific stipulations (e.g., important to show the type of work that she did, wouldn't be used in any other capacity, etc.) See Non-free content criteria.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 03:29, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello Carole, Thank you for all of this info. I have a lot of work to do. Bettina was prolific, but somewhat under cover so let's see if I can get the proper info. I will work on uploading images of hers to the Wikipedia Commons under her name. And get back to you when that's competed.

One question, what do you do if the only verifiable info is an "physical" article that is not online (about her / or that she wrote ) ( i.e. newspaper clipping, etc) ?

Best TC --Tmcourtney (talk) 15:20, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * , Regarding uploading the images to commons (here's the link, when you upload Ms. Cirone's images, you will need to have agreement from her about the type of Creative Commons licensing, which would allow others to use the images for commercial use (i.e., people could download and use the images posted to commons).


 * The newspaper articles don't need to be online to be used as long as you've got: article title, newspaper, date, page info. There's a question, though, about notability. If it's hard to find articls that explore her career, then the question arises, does the subject meet general notability guidelines for biographies of living persons. By some things that I've read about here, I would think she meets notability guidelines, but I am just concerned why there isn't more written about her. Has she received some industry awards for her work?-- CaroleHenson (talk) 18:32, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

CAROLE I MAY HAVE POSTED THE FOLLOWING INCORRECTLY AND YOU MAY SEE IT AS A DUPLICATE:

Good Morning Carole,

We're getting there, Again Thank you for you patience!!! I'm adding some things that I'm hoping are relevant!

-=- This article in the Baltimore Sun (1992) http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1992-06-18/features/1992170233_1_paparazzi-celebrities-rich-and-famous mentions Bettina as A papparazzi: Says Bettina Cirone, who has spent 22 years on the beat: "I work 18 hours a day. Deadlines are so urgent. I gave People a negative of Ben Vereen backstage at 'Jelly's Last Jam' with Greg Hines, Sigourney Weaver and Mike Douglas the night before his accident. They decided against using it, but by then, it was too late to get into any newspapers." Ms. Cirone believes that some security people target women photographers rather than their "tougher" male counterparts. Still, that doesn't stop her. She got Kim Basinger and Alec Baldwin necking. She got Madonna weeping after a performance of "A Streetcar Named Desire," despite attempts by the Madonna bodyguards to block the shots.

-=- This video interview of Bettina acknowledges her being on assignment for USA Today to shoot an event for Turk 182 http://www.firstpost.com/topic/person/timothy-hutton-bettina-cirone-54-02-video-JlZkCF-0xOA-10085-8.html

-=- The NY Daily News (blurb) mentions her being a model & celeb photographer: http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/gossip/sony-not-entertaining-heads-article-1.696721

' " Before she jumped behind a camera, Ford model Bettina Cirone graced the covers of the biggest fashion mags. Now she's one of New York's most durable celeb photographers. The best of her work is now on view at the New England Museum for Contemporary Art in Norwich, Ct., in a retrospective curated by Baird Jones.

-=- I found this reference to BC as a contributor to World LibertyTV (as an interviewer though) http://www.yasni.info/ext.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fworldlibertytv.org%2Fabout-us%2F&name=Bettina+Cirone&showads=1&lc=en-us&lg=en&rg=us&rip=us

Let me know your thoughts Thanks!!, TC --100.33.106.194 (talk) 17:51, 2 March 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tmcourtney (talk • contribs)


 * Yes,, this is a start. I'll start the shell of the article and see how it goes. The more good sources with good biographical data, the less likely that someone may come along and question whether the subject is notable per the guidelines. There are some bits there, though, that are good for notability - like having a retrospective of her work and having her work on view at a museum. The more that you can find along those lines, the better. If she's won awards, for instance, that would be good additional info.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 19:16, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Moved to keep discussion in one place

Fantastic! I will keep hunting! PS, she was born August 19th 1933 in NYC --Tmcourtney (talk) 19:56, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Great! If it's possible to either upload or provide a link to the image that Cirone took of Dustin Hoffman trying on hats, that would be great. I tried to find one for the Bettina Cirone article, but I was unsuccessful. You'll see that I also started a box for links to images as another way to view a small number of images by Cirone or of Cirone.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 20:30, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * , You can post any additional comments or additions at Talk:Bettina Cirone, where it will be good to indent each conversation (i.e., If I indent one place with a colon, you can use two colons for your response, etc.) That makes is much easier to read and determine the flow of the conversation.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 20:39, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Requesting for an adopter
Hi Carole,

I'd like to get some assistance on how to get a Wikipedia page up and running for the company I work for. However, as I understand, I'll be requiring the services of an independent editor. Can you help me walk through the whole process and adopt me as a mentee?

Thanks, and do let me know.

Shakirahdj (talk) 03:59, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi, Sure I would be happy to help! The first step is to determine notability (also see general notability guidelines) and find reliable, secondary sources like newspapers, journals, and books. Google news and google books searches are good starting points. -- CaroleHenson (talk) 19:05, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Dorothy Block, Triptych - Jazz.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Dorothy Block, Triptych - Jazz.jpg. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information.

To add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Wikipedia. For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 11:05, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * , Thanks! I updated the information for the image.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 12:38, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 10
<div style = "color: #936c29; font-size: 4em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif"> The Wikipedia Library <span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif">Books & Bytes

Issue 10, January-February 2015 by, ,

<div style = "margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: .9em"> Read the full newsletter MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:40, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * New donations - ProjectMUSE, Dynamed, Royal Pharmaceutical Society, and Women Writers Online
 * New TWL coordinator, conference news, and a new guide and template for archivists
 * TWL moves into the new Community Engagement department at the WMF, quarterly review

Your GA nomination of Emily Sartain
The article Emily Sartain you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Emily Sartain for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Wizardman -- Wizardman (talk) 15:21, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thanks !-- CaroleHenson (talk) 16:15, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Logo SheKnows Media.png
Thanks for uploading File:Logo SheKnows Media.png. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information.

To add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Wikipedia. For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 03:05, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, ! I was so focused on the rationale info, I completely forgot about the licensing tag. ✅ now.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 03:11, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the cookies!
Hi Carole,

Thank you for the cookies! Sweet ;o)

I wonder if you can refer me to a wiki editor who might be interested in creating a new wiki page for our company. I understand that it's inappropriate for us to create our own page, or to pay someone to create our page. What I'm seeking is someone who can perhaps post a "stub" page that meets Wiki's approval criteria, so that other editors interested in our business/industry might contribute to our page. Or, alternatively, I hope to find an editor who is interested enough and astute enough in Wiki's community and rules, that can create our page in full.

Here's some info on who we are:

About SheKnows SheKnows Media is a top women’s digital lifestyle media company. Its acquisition of BlogHer in October 2014 gives the company 75.3 million unduplicated unique visitors per month, which is more than the current number-one women’s lifestyle media brand (comScore, Multiplatform Lifestyles Rankings, September 2014). SheKnows Media also reaches more than 147.4 million social media fans and operates a family of leading media properties that include SheKnows.com, BlogHer.com, StyleCaster.com, DailyMakeover.com, BeautyHigh.com and DrinksMixer.com. With a mission of women inspiring women, SheKnows Media is revolutionizing the publishing industry by forging a new kind of model that seamlessly integrates users, editors and content creators onto a single platform designed to empower all women to discover, share and create. Whether it’s parenting or pop culture, fashion or food, DIY or décor, our award-winning editorial team, Experts, bloggers and social media influencers produce authentic and on-trend content every day. We dig deep to learn what makes our audience tick, revealing unexpected insights on women and digital media. Our robust, end-to-end suite of premium branded content and influencer marketing solutions generate more than 1.7 billion ad impressions per month (sources: DFP and OAS), allowing brands to distribute authentic content and integrated advertising at scale. SheKnows Media is headquartered in Scottsdale, Ariz., with offices in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Belmont, Calif. We also operate internationally, with sites in Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom.

Thank you for your help. Lori Anderson March 10, 2015, 2:50 pm PST --Lorianderson835 (talk) 21:50, 10 March 2015 (UTC) Lorianderson835 (talk) 21:50, 10 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi ! I'm not sure if you saw, but I already answered you in the post just before this one.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 23:34, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

WP:Co-op
Hello,

I, along with a couple other editors, am currently working to build the Co-op. It is a new mentorship space we're working on and would be piloting in January and February. Our plan is to have experienced editors guide newcomers one-on-one based on how they wants to contribute to Wikipedia. We expect mentors to take no more than one or two editors each under them, so it wouldn't become a huge commitment at all. Your experience helping newcomers in general and at the Teahouse would be really helpful, especially because we plan to build the space as newcomer-friendly. If you're interesting in helping out, please sign up here. If you have any questions about the space, I'll be happy to answer them so please feel free to let me know.

Cheers, Soni (talk) (Previously TheOriginalSoni) 14:00, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Help please...
Hi Carole, do you know how to make an article split? The Breastfeeding article needs the HIV section split off since the article is so long. Let me know and I will fill you in on the details. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 01:56, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, yep, I went ahead and split that portion out of the article. The "too long" tag still applies, but it's less cumbersome and doesn't include info that would apply to most mothers. If you have any questions about what I did... or if I missed something, please let me know.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 03:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * So grateful for your quick action. Thank you so much.  Gandydancer (talk) 23:15, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * My pleasure, .-- CaroleHenson (talk) 23:42, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Carole could you please help me again? Some of the photos from the Lake City, Colorado article were removed--I have no idea why just some and not others as I used the same method for all...  Anyway, I tried over and over again to do what the person from Commons told me to do but never could get it right since the photos were removed no matter what I tried.  That was not so bad except that next they removed three photos from my Granite, Colorado article as well and I do feel very badly about that.  The first two (as seen on the talk page) were taken with my little Brownie or my dad's camera and the third is a vintage (say around 1870) from my private collection.  I hope you can help me. Gandydancer (talk) 17:03, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * From what I can tell, it seems some of the files were copyright violations and some were because the information on the files could not confirm that the images were either in the public domain or had the proper licensing for use on commons.


 * One of the files that remained is an image by John A. Randolph, but the information for licensing was incorrect. I have since updated it here. The "author" is John A. Randolph and the "year" is 1874, which puts it in the public domain. I added the link to the file on the web. That is extremely helpful for verifying information.


 * Do you have a link to one of the images that was deleted so I can check out what might the issue might be?-- CaroleHenson (talk) 17:31, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Newbie's first steps
Thank you so much. I didn't think I'd get a response so fast! I will look into all your suggestions and touch base with you if I can't figure something out. Once I edit my article, do you review it for Wiki accuracy? Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm super excited to learn. Well I've got work to do; I'll be in touch soon. Thank you again. Penslips — Preceding unsigned comment added by Penslips (talk • contribs) 22:38, 10 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Sounds good, absolutely!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 23:27, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Jo Frost
Hello Carole. Thank you for your helpful edits to the Jo Frost article. I was unable to confirm the date of birth using the reference you provided. I am missing it, or should this be redacted for the time being? I was unsure. Regards, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Yamaguchi%E5%85%88%E7%94%9F&action=edit&amp;section=new Yamaguchi先生] 18:28, 18 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, my pleasure, There's just some clean-up that's needed to synch up sources to content - and I'm adding tags where I cannot immediately find a source, but one might crop up as I work my way through. I think things will sort out very nicely, it's just a bit of a process in the meantime.


 * Did you post the request? If so, it would be good to know if the ultimate objective was to organize it a bit better, which I could tell from the draft... or if there is another objective. Thanks for stopping by!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 18:35, 18 March 2015 (UTC)


 * You are doing a wonderful job with updating the article. My primary objective is ensuring that the content being presented can be verified through a reliable source, as there has been some history with false or otherwise impossible to verify material creeping into the article the past few weeks.  Thank you again for all your help!  Regards, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Yamaguchi%E5%85%88%E7%94%9F&action=edit&amp;section=new Yamaguchi先生] 18:41, 18 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Wonderful,, it sounds like we have the same objective... and once I get a little further along it would be great if you could see if anything pops out to you as inaccurate.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 18:58, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Photographs
The updated version, if I did it correctly, is saved in Sandbox.

As for the photos, I just attempted saving them but had difficulty knowing which Tag to select. One photo is the book cover for Every Day by the Sun by Dean Faulkner Wells. The other photo is of Dean taken by Mr. Lawrence Wells, Dean's husband (who sent me an email giving me permission to use the photo). Tags I thought could work are below, but I'm not sure:


 * PD-author – for works released into the public domain by non-Wikimedia users. Some further explanation should be given such as a link to the author's website where they explicitly state that they release the work into the public domain (e.g. ).
 * PD-heirs – for works released into the public domain by the heirs of the creator.
 * reason – generic template; please supply a valid reason for the file being PD.

What say you? Thank you! Penslips PenslipsPenslips (talk) 19:03, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, I formatted the above a bit for readability...
 * For the book cover, use the template from this link Non-free use rationale in the description section (the example is for a book cover, which is helpful!) and for licensing use
 * For the photograph by Dean's husband, what was said about the way that the photograph could be used (e.g., public domain or one of the Creative Commons licenses)? That determines how the photograph would be tagged.


 * I'll go take a look at your draft in the sandbox and provide any comments at User talk:Penslips/sandbox. Sounds like you're making great headway!!! Cool!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 19:24, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Need to have a company page created
Hi Carole, I work with SheKnows Media and we'd like to have a wiki page created for our company - though I understand that we aren't allowed to create one ourselves. I'm looking for help to guide me through the process of proposing that our company gets a page, and whatever steps are necessary to follow it through to completion. Is this something you might be willing/able to assist with? Kind regards, Lori Anderson --Lorianderson835 (talk) 20:39, 10 March 2015 (UTC) 10 March 2015 1:38pm PST


 * Hi, yes, it's absolutely something I can help with. The first thing is to find reliable secondary sources, like books, newspapers, journals, and other sources with an editorial control function (i.e., not blogs, social media, etc.) to help prove that the organization meets notability guidelines and notability guidelines for organizations and companies. If you can come up with four or more reliable sources (with links to pages), I would be happy to start the draft of the article... and then we can take it from there. Google books and news are good places to start. If any of this isn't clear, let me know.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 20:58, 10 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, Sorry - I'm having difficulty understanding how to use this talk feature! We have tons of press, all reliable sources. May I direct you to our press page which has live links to each press mention? You'll see on this page that we have news clips from AdWeek, Huffington Post, Forbes, NBC and many many more - http://corporate.sheknows.com/in-the-news

I'd be very grateful if you'd begin a draft of the article and I'm happy to provide any additional information you may need. We've received many awards and accolades, I can share information regarding our executive team, our history including acquisitions, our mission, etc. Let me know how I can best help. Beyond that, I wonder if you can share with me the process of having a complete page - do you begin the draft, and then others participate in updating the article from there? I'm a complete newbie so any insight would be wonderful! Thanks so much for your help! Lorianderson835 (talk) 16:04, 11 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, sure . I would be happy to. I'm going to wrap up another article that I'm working on, likely today, and then can start on it.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 17:28, 11 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks so much! Looking forward to working with you. Lorianderson835 (talk) 17:46, 11 March 2015 (UTC)


 * My pleasure, . Me, too!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 17:49, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Company page, continued
, The SheKnows Media article has been started. It still needs expansion and copyediting, so I left the "under construction" tag on the article.

The best background information that I've found is this press release... and I can likely get to reliable sources through research of this info. The "In the news" items on the company website do not seem to have solid background information - so I put that on hold for the moment.

It would be really helpful if you know of some information, articles, or sources about:
 * background info (founders, company growth, etc.) - it would be nice to find more info about the women founders, for instance
 * stats (e.g., top 10 women's sites, fastest growing, etc.)
 * awards

As an FYI, here's a list of "good" website articles as examples of some of the better articles about websites on Wikipedia.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 04:52, 12 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The "under construction" tag has been removed for several days. By the way, if you have edit requests, you may use Request edits. Awaiting feedback or touch base.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 09:44, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

hoping that you will look at my article before I upload it for submission
Dear Carole, I'm hoping that you might be able to help me with a review of an article before I send it up for regular submission. The topic is an artist by the name of Nelson Andres Rivas aka Cekis. As you have experience with wikipedia articles in that area you can tell me whether the article is ready for submission and what may need changes. I have read stories on the wikipedia site of authors becoming frustrated because their articles are rejected and would like to avoid problems. I have scrupulously followed everything that I know about writing an article and done due diligence, but first time authors probably have this problem all the time. I don't see where a document may be attached to this email so I will leave that off for now. It might not even be something that is part of this process. If you respond to this email, then I will know how to proceed. Sincerely, Drmicrochp (talk) 01:05, 15 March 2015 (UTC)Christian Jutt aka DrMicrochp


 * Sure, I would be happy to take a look. Is it User:Drmicrochp/sandbox this draft?-- CaroleHenson (talk) 01:11, 15 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Dear Carole (again),
 * I thought that the best way to show you my article would be to go ahead and enter it in the sandbox and then save it. You may have already seen it. The topic is Nelson Andres Rvivas aka Cekis and the author is me Drmicrochp aka Christian Jutt
 * Drmicrochp (talk) 01:38, 15 March 2015 (UTC)Christian Jutt aka Drmicrochp


 * Dear Carole,
 * Excuse me if I'm being redundant. I'm not sure whether to write a second letter as a new message or as a continuation of the previous message that is already archived. Anyway, I went ahead and saved my article from my sandbox and submitted it for review. I thought that this would be the easiest way for you to take a look at it.
 * Thanks again,
 * Drmicrochp (talk) 01:47, 15 March 2015 (UTC)Christian Jutt aka DrMicrochp


 * Ok, cool. I'm in the middle of something right now, but I'll take a look at it within a few hours.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 02:33, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Dear Carole, I submitted the article and it has already been rejected. Origamite left me the following message: The content of this submission includes material that does not meet Wikipedia's minimum standard for inline citations. Please cite your sources using footnotes. For instructions on how to do this, please see Referencing for beginners. Thank you. I hope you might be able to discover for me more specifically what Origamite was referring to. Thank you again, Drmicrochp (talk) 20:52, 15 March 2015 (UTC)Christian Jutt aka DrMicrochp


 * See User talk:Drmicrochp/sandbox.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 21:23, 15 March 2015 (UTC)


 * <<< Moved response to See User talk:Drmicrochp/sandbox to keep it with the article draft.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 00:04, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Requesting user adoption
Hi Carole, I work for a non-profit organization that is preparing to make some edits to our Wikipedia page and also considering editing pages related to our work in sustainability assessment (there is a slightly longer explanation on my user page). I was wondering if you are available to mentor me/us through the process so we can avoid any potential COI violations or rollbacks of our edits. I understand that it is advisable for us to request reviews of our edits using the paid editor help board, but any assistance you could offer in advance to help us create edits that are in line with Wikipedia's guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards, COSAsb (talk) 21:42, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Sure, Thanks for the link to the article on your page to Committee on Sustainability Assessment (you just need double brackets and the article name). It sounds like a very interesting organization and I would be happy to help. It's actually tapping into a long-held dream of mine... long story, cool objectives!


 * Some initial questions are:
 * -Content (no worries if you're not here yet)
 * Do you have a list of the types of information that you'd like to include in the article?
 * Does it seem as if these topics will 1) meet your objectives while 2) also maintaining an encyclopedic tone, objectivity, etc.?
 * Do you have reliable sources, such as books (published vs. self-published), newspaper articles, journals, UN/WHO etc. studies/reports, other?


 * -Roles
 * In what ways can I help?
 * I assume contributors will declare their relationship with the organization. What do you envision the participant's role to be? Examples for consideration / tweaking:
 * Very limited - provide scope and request research and writing assistance?
 * Provide sources, rough outline, request additions
 * Write the content with reliable secondary sources and request review before posting?


 * I think that's a start.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 22:39, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much for such prompt and thoughtful response! I just wanted to note that we are working on answers to your questions now and will be in touch as soon as we have a good understanding of our goals and the contributions we are interested in making.

COSAsb (talk) 21:04, 10 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Sounds great, !-- CaroleHenson (talk) 23:30, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Carole, Thank you once again for volunteering to help us out! Responses to your questions are below. Let me know if you have any thoughts or questions.

-Content

1. Shaping the content and categories of the article are definitely an area where we would appreciate some feedback and guidance. I’ve listed some potential categories below with links to the relevant sections of our website.


 * About - http://thecosa.org/who-we-are/about-us/
 * History - http://thecosa.org/who-we-are/about-us/our-history/
 * Activities – (Advisory, Research) http://thecosa.org/what-we-do/ -- perhaps this is better to include in “About”?
 * Indicators - http://thecosa.org/what-we-do/our-approach/define-the-pathway/#smart-indicators (scroll down and click the + next to “View Indicators” and then “Open all”) – this is one of the key aspects of our work: developing scientifically valid, reliable indicators of sustainability
 * Advisory Panel - http://thecosa.org/who-we-are/about-us/advisory-panel/
 * Scientific Committee - http://thecosa.org/who-we-are/about-us/scientific-committee/
 * Reports – some of them can be found here http://thecosa.org/news-and-insight/publications/
 * Partnerships - http://thecosa.org/our-partners/partners/

2. Our objectives here are to raise the profile of our organization, lend greater credibility to our work, and to update the information available on Wikipedia. As an organization, we employ a fact-based, science-driven approach to our work and strive to maintain a neutral viewpoint, so we should have no problem adhering to standards of objectivity and encyclopedic tone. We are more interested in making sure the available information is accurate and comprehensive than using the article for self-promotion.

3. We have several publications and reports of our own (http://thecosa.org/news-and-insight/publications/) as well as articles written by third parties about us (http://thecosa.org/news-and-insight/news/). Additionally, there is other factual information we are interested in adding to the article, such as the organizations we partner with (see #1 above). Finally, the organization’s founder has published many articles on topics related to our work, many of which can be found on his website (http://www.dgiovannucci.net/publications.htm).

-Roles

1. Are you available to review edits before we post them? What is the appropriate way to handle instances where we disagree with, or would like to make edits to revisions by others? Is it acceptable to reference our website for content for which there is no available secondary source (for example, basic facts such as our current partner organizations)?

2. Our contributors will definitely disclose their relationship in their profiles. We plan to write the content with references to secondary sources and request review before posting. We may request writing assistance if necessary, but I expect that we will be able to provide content on our own that adheres to Wikipedia’s guidelines.

We also intend to make edits to a lesser extent on other pages related to our work. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainability_standards_and_certification

We may also make small edits where our reports or studies are referenced but we are not named specifically (on some of the articles for our partners, for example).

One specific edit we’d like to make is related to the page title/URL which was previously moved from “Committee on Sustainability Assessment (COSA)” to just “Committee on Sustainability Assessment”. We strongly prefer the prior as most people know us as COSA and many people in developing countries for whom English is not their primary language search for us under that name and have encountered difficulty finding our pages in the past.

Finally, we would also like to create an article for the organization’s founder, Daniele Giovannucci. We have reviewed Wikipedia’s notability guidelines and believe that he is qualified for a standalone article, as he has been interviewed and cited as an expert in many independent publications regarding sustainability and food crops, and has also published many frequently-cited scholarly articles. I understand that this is a separate project, so I can provide more information when we come to this point.

COSAsb (talk) 20:27, 17 March 2015 (UTC)


 * There's such great information here about article expansion that I'm going to move it to Talk:Committee on Sustainability Assessment, which does a couple of things: 1) It keeps the history of article expansion plans with the article and 2) allows other editors to weigh-in on the topic, which is a standard vehicle within Wikipedia to engage in conversation and gain consensus.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 21:56, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Very New Here
Hi!

I'm new to Wiki. I attempted to submit an article eight days ago regarding Dean Faulkner Wells, William Cuthbert Faulkner's niece (William, the Mississippi writer, famous for Sound and the Fury and As I Lay Dying, among others books). The article was declined due to lack of notability. I currently have the article in draft and would like to learn how to improve it in order to eventually publish it on Wiki. For me posting the article will also be a stepping stone to be proficient at editing, create other articles and help others on Wiki.

I believe one of the first things I need to add to my article is web-linked references. Such as, making sure William Faulkner's name is a web-link so that viewers can click on his name and it will lead them to Wiki's page about WF. Also, I believe I need to locate more active web references about Dean Faulkner, to add to the page as well. At least this is what I believe Sam Sailor wanted, the person who declined the article. But I have a feeling there's a lot more to it.

As you can see, I need guidance. Thank you - Penslips

Penslips (talk) 03:11, 9 March 2015 (UTC)penslipsPenslips (talk) 03:11, 9 March 2015 (UTC) --Penslips (talk) 03:11, 9 March 2015 (UTC)penslips--Penslips (talk) 03:11, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, ,
 * Let me poke around a few places to see if I can find enough books, magazines, newspaper articles, and other reliable sources to meet general notability guidelines. I like where you're headed!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 03:42, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * , Fortunately, I was able to find some good signs off the bat:
 * Authority controls, like VIAF and other identifiers (click on history at the bottom of the VIAF page)
 * At least 7 books on google books. It would be good to check WorldCat.org, too.
 * There are at least a couple books with biographical information
 * There are quite a number of sources for Dean with her year of birth, including tributes, obits, and other information. These will have to be screened for reliable sources (newspapers, etc. that have an editorial function)
 * It would be good to check google news
 * So, yes, I think we can work on this.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 04:00, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Working
Hi - I've made a few additions to the piece.


 * How do I save my edits? I'm afraid if I click on "Save" that that will actually submit the article again.

Thank you, and I look forward to hearing from you. PenslipsPenslips (talk) 16:12, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Wonder if you can review and provide suggestions, or point out any errors I made. If so, can you please tell me how to send it to you so you CAN review it.  I'm not sure: do I cut/paste and send it to you in a new message?
 * Lastly, I would like to include a photo or two with this article, but when I enter the area "File Upload Wizard" it tells me I do not have a confirmed account. The explanation: I can't upload photos until I make 10 edits, or four days have passed once I create an article.  At least that's my interpretation of it.  Is this something you can help with as well?  Though, it is currently the least of my worries as I would much rather have a solid article in which to be accepted by Wiki.


 * Hi
 * You can just do a regular save - if the article is created already, you're good to go.
 * I would be happy to review the article
 * Did you try uploading the photos through commons upload wizard?== CaroleHenson (talk) 16:21, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mary Brewster Hazelton
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Mary Brewster Hazelton you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Curly Turkey -- Curly Turkey (talk) 02:21, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you
Hi Carole,

I welcome your assistance. Again thank you for your help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keeberry (talk • contribs) 17:42, 18 March 2015 (UTC)


 * My pleasure, . Let me know if I can clarify anything or help out.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 17:45, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Request Edit

 * Thanks,, it's my pleasure!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 22:24, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

National Report
Please see User talk:Jytdog.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 00:11, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Times Group Page
Hi, As requested we have cited sources for all the claims made in the "About us" page.TGITInteract (talk) 07:49, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Mary Brewster Hazelton
The article Mary Brewster Hazelton you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Mary Brewster Hazelton for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Curly Turkey -- Curly Turkey (talk) 11:01, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Two articles under deletion review
Would you check on two of my articles under deletion review: Floyd D. Culbertson, Jr., and A. M. Leary. Any ideas on how to save them. Thanks for your consideration. Billy Hathorn (talk) 19:29, 27 March 2015 (UTC)


 * , I'm not sure that you'd be happy with my comments. It seems the individuals have only marginal notability and there's a real issue with using findagrave.com as sources. Generally, the content is added by contributors and have no editorial control. You would help your case by removing those sources, and any content that only comes from findagrave.


 * Some of the findagrave sources are newspaper articles placed there that could not otherwise be found. Billy Hathorn (talk) 20:53, 27 March 2015 (UTC)


 * , Ok, if you prefer to leave it in there, go for it - just so you know that people that evaluate articles with findagrave sources are going to question it right away. Someone once said to me that if you cannot find good sources for the information, then it's not notable enough info. I'm working on an article right now where I can only find some information from primary sources and it's not getting included. My last article I found findagrave for the cemetery for someone I wrote about, but I searched on the cemetery and the subject's name and couldn't find another source, so it wasn't included.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 21:20, 27 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Any other non-genealogical sources that you find will help your case, too. For both articles, I said "rewrite if kept" to remove findagrave.com source/info, any other genealogical site info, and limit or remove all of the ancestry.com info - anything from trees is non-reliable, the other information is primary information, which should be limited. Good luck!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 20:37, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Sarah Stilwell Weber
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Sarah Stilwell Weber, and it appears to include material copied directly from http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2015/01/07/art-entertainment/cover-artists-art-entertainment/sarah-stilwell-weber.html.

It is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article. The article will be reviewed to determine if there are any copyright issues.

If substantial content is duplicated and it is not public domain or available under a compatible license, it will be deleted. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material. You may use such publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.) CorenSearchBot (talk) 20:22, 11 April 2015 (UTC)


 * There are a couple of places where I have direct quotes from Howard Pyle, which might be throwing off the bot routine. I'll take a look at reducing the number of quotes.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 20:26, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I just realized that I should have used this user name for you. I did reduce the number of direct quotes - and removed the tag. It should be good now.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 20:39, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Today's articles for improvement



 * Hello CaroleHenson:


 * This week's voting for TAFI's upcoming weekly collaboration has begun at Week 18 of 2015. Thanks for participating!

Sent by User:Northamerica1000 using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:26, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Help for new editor
Hi there, a new editor is having problems getting her article accepted. It is "Birth pools" on my talk page. Could you help her? Thanks. Gandydancer (talk) 11:57, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi,, I couldn't tell what needs to be done. The article is in article space. What am I missing?-- CaroleHenson (talk) 16:00, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Carole, thanks. I noted that Birth Pool is also a trade-marked name:, so will watch the article closely to make certain that no COI creeps into the article.  Gandydancer (talk) 16:46, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * , that's a very good point and find, just to ensure that there are no COI issues. Thanks for that!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 16:50, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Mentoring
Hi Carole! I am a relatively new editor (~5 months), but I feel like I've been getting the hang of how things work around here; however, I also do some paid COI work, and seem to run into problems with fostering goodwill with the community. I noticed you helped Heatherer with publishing COI content via an edit request earlier, and saw that you also participate in the adopt-a-user program. I was hoping you might be able to provide me with some advice or guidance. I feel like I've been straightforward and transparent in my process, but as I continue to run into problems, I'm beginning to consider that an outside, experienced perspective would be immensely helpful. Thanks for your time! FacultiesIntact (talk) 19:41, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi,, Sure, how can I help? Do you have something specifically that you're working on now? And, in what way have you run into issues?-- CaroleHenson (talk) 20:25, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Carole, thanks for your response. Primarily I've been working on David M. Cote, and so far,, , , and have commented on the draft on Talk:David M. Cote, and  and  left me comments in userspace. , , and  also made suggestions but eluded to my wasting of time presenting a draft in my sandbox. DGG cited his approval on the David M. Cote Talk page, but at this point, Philafrenzy is editing the BLP. I'm unsure why he seems disinterested to collaborate with me. Given that I'm fairly new to this, what would you suggest as next steps?
 * I'm also working on some other pages, and have tried to follow similar methodology: I declare COI, link to the draft I'm working on, and detail the changes I'm proposing. However, some Wikipedians protest against wholesale changes claiming those suggested wholesale changes are never going to be implemented. You're welcome to review user contributions as it gives insight to my compliance to the standard procedure; per WP:EDITREQ, as a COI editor, I'm trying to garner consensus about changes before submitting an edit request. Yet very few people seem interested in actually collaborating, with me. What other advice would you have about the edit request process, for non-COI or COI editing? Thanks again! FacultiesIntact (talk) 04:42, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I will take another look at that page tomorrow. It is sometimes a problem, when several people all suggest changes in submitted material, to reach an agreed solution, especially as we do not have any very exact rules on content of an article. We have no definitive way of handling this, nut the best place to post a request for a new look at it is now the WP:Conflict of Interest Noticeboard.  DGG ( talk ) 05:01, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * In my opinion,, you are going about things in precisely the opposite way than you should. When you write a new draft of an article, proposing to replace the current version of the article with your new draft, you begin by disrespecting the work of every editor who came before you. This will never fly unless the existing article is total garbage with no useful content, which is exceedingly rare. Instead, you should propose incremental changes to the existing article in small, well-referenced chunks. Abandon your disrespectful "draft" approach, and work on improving, not replacing, existing articles. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  05:10, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

, You've received a lot of feedback about some of the content already, so I don't want to duplicate those points - and instead am adding some comments you may want to consider regarding approach. Here are some of my initial thoughts.


 * I know that you said several times that you want to collaborate with others to update the article, which is great! Mentioning your role and connection was good/important, too.
 * I think, though, that you might have unintentionally lost some people right off the bat.
 * When I saw that a number of people started jumping into the conversation right off the bat, it looked to me like there was concern about needing to "save" the work that had already been done on the article.
 * Your original intro might have come across a little better if you had said that you wanted to add recent information, improve the sources and suggest some changes - and then start to get into some detail.
 * In this case, it seemed like there was clear concern about removing cited content and about dealing with an entire draft at once, so it that seemed the time to break it down into manageable chunks - like
 * inserting proposed language for one section at a time with a summary of the changes. One option is to use a collapse top and collapse bottom box to identify the language like

Verbiage inserted here.


 * Or, Break down the changes a section at a time: what you're requesting to remove, change and add, in quotes.
 * Or, ask the individuals who are commenting on the talk page what would be the best, most efficient way to proceed.


 * As paid editor, I recommend keeping a strict encyclopedic style, presenting balanced content, and being extremely careful with tone - especially avoiding peacock, weasel, or promotional language. In your position, I think it's important to err on the side of a "just the facts" approach. For instance, I would rethink statements like "The following year, Cote returned to his home state and talked his way into enrolling at the University of New Hampshire past the official admissions date.[3]"

I hope this helps as a starting point and hasn't been off-putting. I think it's a good sign that you're reaching out in a number of ways. You've got some good editors that have already provided feedback about content and had more input left here, too - which I think is a great sign that there are a number of people engaged in working with you!-- CaroleHenson (talk) 07:47, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Agree with Cullen above and I also left a comment on the Cote talk page. I will probably be accused of not assuming AGF or biting the newbies but at this point I think FacultiesIntact is taking up a lot of the time of people who unlike him (or her) are not being paid. As Cullen has said, FI has been told repeatedly what is needed, they should just get on with it rather than endlessly forum shopping to try to find someone who will uncritically do their bidding. Enough already! Philafrenzy (talk) 10:22, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * , If you would like some help reviewing the comments that have come in so far, along with your proposed changes, I would be happy to help - taking it a section at a time.-- CaroleHenson (talk) 21:34, 4 April 2015 (UTC)