User talk:CherokeeJack1

February 2020
Hello, I'm FlightTime. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Rush (band), but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. - FlightTime  ( open channel ) 01:04, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Please stop adding unsourced or poorly sourced content, as you did on Template:NeXT Computer. This violates Wikipedia's policy on verifiability. If you continue to do so, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. - FlightTime  ( open channel ) 01:05, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I'm Tymon.r. I wanted to let you know that I reverted one of your recent contributions —specifically this edit to M. A. Wetherell—because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Help desk. Thanks. Tymon. r Do you have any questions?  09:25, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Welcome!


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March 2020
You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you change genres in pages without discussion or sources, as you did at Trap Queen. Binksternet (talk) 18:31, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

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Sockpuppet investigation
PKHilliam (talk) 15:01, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

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June 2020
You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you violate Wikipedia's no original research policy by inserting unpublished information or your personal analysis into an article, as you did at Bouncing Off the Satellites. Binksternet (talk) 05:11, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I'm GoneIn60. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Blockbuster LLC, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. GoneIn60 (talk) 08:13, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

June, 2020 Comment
Hello, I'm Netherzone. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Atomic Age (design), but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Netherzone (talk) 19:54, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Additional explanation
Regarding your edit here, please do not make massive changes to the section's long standing status quo text and organization without consulting the talk page first. You did this exact same thing back in February and there was already a talk page discussion regarding that.

The current version of the section is organized the way it is for the following reasons:


 * The first paragraph of the section introduces Oxford Living Dictionaries' general definition of Millennials and what the widely accepted definition of Millennials is.
 * The second paragraph focuses on the Pew Research Center: Pew's definition of millennials is presented, along with the reasons why they chose the date ranges they did, the importance and widespread use of Pew's definition by the various media outlets and statistical organizations that cite Pew's definition (secondary sources), and ends with Pew's general observations.
 * The third paragraph lists different organizations and news outlets and what they use. These are all different organizations. And since they are using the same date ranges, these are combined into one paragraph. Multiple different organizations using the same date ranges is not "overciting"; it's just what they are using. And no, this should not be combined with Pew's paragraph; Pew's paragraph focuses on Pew's definition.
 * The rest you can probably tell why it's organized that way. Fourth paragraph is basically what other organizations use that are not the widely accepted definition. The fifth paragraph is about the two authors. The sixth paragraph ends the section with information about the cusp. Some1 (talk) 21:19, 30 June 2020 (UTC) (Edited: Some1 (talk) 21:40, 30 June 2020 (UTC))


 * Taking some of your suggestions into consideration, I moved two sentences that were originally separate paragraphs up, and further moved another one up . So now there's a total of 5 paragraphs: First paragraph is the introduction, second is Pew focused, third and fourth are different organizations/news outlets/authors date ranges, and fifth is about the cusp. Let me know your thoughts. Some1 (talk) 23:17, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

---

Unrelated to the above, but do you think the 2014 US Pirg report is notable enough to be included? 2014 seems a bit outdated and it's only used once in a transportation report. Some1 (talk) 23:40, 30 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree that the U.S. PIRG source doesn't seem notable enough to include. It's outdated, and as you said, just for a transportation report, not an in-depth sociological study on millennials. Would it be alright with you if I removed it?


 * It should be noted that, in the third paragraph, the LA Times source and the PBS source actually cite Pew Research, not just using 1981-1996 on their own whim like the Federal Reserve Board or ABC Australia. Should I move those particular sources up to the second paragraph?--CherokeeJack1 (talk) 23:51, 30 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'm alright with that; and regarding LA Times and PBS, ctrl-F "Pew" on those two articles doesn't show anything for Pew. How'd you know they are citing Pew? (Let's keep the discussion on your talk page and no need to ping.) Some1 (talk) 23:55, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * In the LA Times source, when it says "By next year, millennials, born between 1981 and 1996, are projected to outnumber baby boomers," the line "projected to outnumber baby boomers" links to a Pew source. In the PBS source, the first two paragraphs contain links to both Pew and People-Press.org (which is part of Pew).--CherokeeJack1 (talk) 23:59, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Good catch. I'm fine with your proposed changes. Some1 (talk) 00:00, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd also like to move the Jonathan Rauch source into the second paragraph, as it directly cites Pew, while the Reuters source can go in the third paragraph, as it uses 1981-1996 seemingly on its own whim. Would that be alright with you?--CherokeeJack1 (talk) 00:09, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, why was the Business Insider source removed?--CherokeeJack1 (talk) 00:15, 1 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Not really... Rauch and Reuters do a great job at introducing the paragraph and section. Oxford starts off with the most general definition of millennial, then Rauch and Reuters gives us the "widely accepted" definition. It flows well. Some1 (talk) 00:18, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Business Insider isn't as important as the other outlets listed (and it's yellow here: ). But if you disagree, feel free to add Business Insider back in. Some1 (talk) 00:18, 1 July 2020 (UTC) Actually, scratch that, I don't think Business Insider belongs in there because they are not on the same level as Time, BBC, New York Times, etc. etc. that's why I removed it. Some1 (talk) 00:26, 1 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Also, shouldn't Jean Twenge's definition be mentioned too? She's mentioned so many times in the article in other sections. I can't seem to find a source for her, though. Some1 (talk) 00:28, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

July 2020
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 2 weeks for persistently adding unsourced or poorly sourced content. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page:. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:08, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

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August 2020
You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you add bogusly sourced material to Wikipedia, as you did at Baby boomers. Toddst1 (talk) 00:00, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you add unsourced material to Wikipedia, as you did at Neon sign. SolarFlashDiscussion 03:21, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you add unsourced material to Wikipedia, as you did at Retro style. SolarFlashDiscussion 16:56, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

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Hi and/or administrators viewing this talk page, a complaint about recent edits was created, and declined without any action for now, at Special:Permalink/973700878. Best regards, ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:40, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Additional explanation... again.
As a reply to your question and regarding your use of WP:SYNTH ("Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources"): And this is not the first time you added WP:SYNTH to articles; you did the exact same thing over at the Generation X article: here, here, and here, and were reverted every single time by multiple different editors.
 * The lead of the Millennials article does not contain WP:SYNTH because if you actually read the Brookings Institution and the Reuters sources, they literally use the phrase "widely accepted" in the articles themselves, hence "widely accepted" is able to be put in the lead of the article. And the lead sentence matches the body of the article itself.
 * Your edit to the lead of the Generation Z article contains WP:SYNTH, because "widely accepted" is not used anywhere in the article and nor did the three sources you added in that same edit support the use of "widely accepted." Hence, the WP:SYNTH.

Also, please take the time to familiarize yourself with WP:BAREURLS. Some1 (talk) 01:30, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Alright, I understand your points. However, don't "most often understood", "most experts", and "usually defined" have similar connotations to "widely accepted"? It's not the exact wording, but the meaning is similar.--CherokeeJack1 (talk) 01:37, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but WP:SYNTH says to "not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources." Some1 (talk) 01:43, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Again.
Before making massive changes to the structure and organization of the section, please do it edit by edit so editors can actually see what you're trying to change. The diff view is not that great for trying decipher and compare the old vs the new version, especially when sentences are being moved around or changed.

Also copy and paste the message you left on my talk page here so we can discuss those changes on your talk page instead. Some1 (talk) 04:57, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * When it comes to the restructure, no sources were removed. Rather they were regrouped in a way similar to that of the Date and age range section of the Millennials article: dictionary dates, Pew dates, other media dates, Howe dates, non-U.S. dates. This made the section a lean five paragraphs, compared to the current eight paragraphs which seems like overkill to me. Should I first seek consensus on the talk page, or can I go through with the edits piece by piece?


 * My other question: since sources by Forbes, Business Insider, and Goldman Sachs were removed from the "Date and range definition" section of the Millennials article, should they also be removed from that section of the Generation Z article? Reason being is that these aren't sociological institutions that give in-depth reasons for their date ranges; rather they're more focused on the business side of things, and create ranges based on marketing. Forbes isn't even consistent with their definition, using 1996-2010 in a September 2019 article but then switching to 1995-2007 in an October 2019 article.--CherokeeJack1 (talk) 05:05, 21 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I understand that you want consistency considering all of the WP:SYNTH you tried to add to these different articles (see that discussion above we just had). But just because one section is organized one way on another article doesn't mean this section should be organized the exact same way. Millennials and Generation Z are two different articles with completely different set of sources. And you don't need to start a talk page discussion regarding the changes. Just make your changes edit by edit so people can actually see what you're trying to do. But I grouped a bunch of them together now, so let me know your thoughts here. Some1 (talk) 05:16, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The way it's organized now is: 1) Dictionary definitions 2) Pew's definition 3) Those that start Gen Z at 1997 (or after 1996, same thing) 4) Those that start Gen Z at 1995 5) Those that start at 1996 6) And definitions that use different names for Generation Z ("Children of Baby Boomers" and "Homeland Generation"). Some1 (talk) 05:19, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I like your restructuring. Now, should the date ranges from Forbes, Business Insider, and Goldman Sachs be kept or can they be removed? As I've said before I feel their definitions are more business-oriented than sociological.--CherokeeJack1 (talk) 05:25, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Forbes can be removed. They also cite Pew on a different article in 2020. Some1 (talk) 05:29, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The Business Insider source is actually decent on this Gen Z article, since they are doing their own research on Gen Z (unlike the Millennials Business Insider source where Business Insider was listed only because they cited Pew). Some1 (talk) 05:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Can Goldman Sachs be removed? They did imply a Gen Z range of 1995-2005 in 2018, as they called them "today's teenagers through 23-year olds", yet in a June 2020 report they defined Millennials as 1980-1999, which I think indicates they change date ranges on a whim for marketing purposes.--CherokeeJack1 (talk) 05:46, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I have no strong feelings about Goldman Sachs either way, so do what you prefer. Some1 (talk) 05:49, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Can you not use my username in edits in the future, such as this? That's just weird. Some1 (talk) 05:55, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure, that's fine. I wanted to be courteous since I felt like I had wronged you before, and felt like I needed your permission to fully proceed with the edits. But if namedropping is weird to you, I do understand.--CherokeeJack1 (talk) 06:26, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * You didn't "wrong" me per se. Judging by your talk page right now and all the warnings you've received and the amount of cleanup others (including I) have to do after 98% of your edits (unsourced, WP:SYNTH), don't be surprised that your edits need frequent re-checking, not just by me on the articles I edit myself, but by others who also edit the other articles you edit. Hopefully you'll heed the advice of others given to you above. Some1 (talk) 12:11, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm proposing for the three paragraphs where the gen starts in 1995-1997 to be grouped into one, what do you think? The millennials article had a similar thing going on where sources that ended the generation around 1994-1996 were grouped together. Yes I know it's a different article with different sources, but I think this new grouping would make things tight and compact; the 1996 start dates paragraph in particular looks rather stubby and could easily be merged into another.--CherokeeJack1 (talk) 06:26, 21 August 2020 (UTC)