User talk:ExRat/Archive 1

Welcome to Wikipedia
Hello ExRat. Welcome to Wikipedia. We as a community are glad to have you and we hope you are helpful to Wikipedia. If you need any help leave a message at my Talk Page. Happy Editing!

Redwolf24 1 July 2005 22:37 (UTC)

(To sign your name and date as such use 4 ~'s. Use 3 if you just want to leave your name and 5 if you just want to leave the date.)

Silent Film Stars
ExRat: I've noticed you've done extensive work on silent film stars. I'm hoping to improve (and create) some articles pertaining to silent film, and I've noticed you've taken some pictures from silent-movies.org. Are all of the images from this site in the public domain? I know that anything pre-1923 should qualify, but I thought that the digital versions might be under different rules unless I'm scanning these images myself from old magazines. Wencer 20:03, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

--Wencer, many of the photographs I used for accompanying articles indeed came from internet sources such as Silent Ladies & Gents, or Find A Grave. I am unaware and haven't read anything stating that digital versions are under another domain. I have purposely sought out photos that were pre-1923 to accompany articles. That is generally why I have focused mainly on silent film actors whose heydays were in the 1910s and very early 1920s such as: Marie Doro, Evelyn Preer and Anita Stewart and when writing articles on silent film actors from the mid- or later 1920s, where I was unsure of copyright date, I didn't include photographs; such as Lars Hanson, George O'Brien, or Mary Philbin. Or, made sure I found the earliest photographs of those individuals I could find with verifiable dating. ExRat 22:11, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Your system seems fair enough. I may go through some of those sites then to procure some source images. The people at silent-movies.org seem fairly concerned about copyright issues, and in certain instances I may ask them regarding specific images. Thanks! Wencer 23:45, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Cleaning out the stables
The List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people was a big mess and I'm glad to see you mucking it out. I'm a strong supporter of the new criteria (briefly, a WP biography that mentions orientation) and have regretted that I haven't brought the article entries up to that criteria. There has been ample warning that entries which didn't meet the criteria would be removed, so it is overdue. I appreciate that you are notating your removals, which shows diligence. Cheers, -Willmcw 10:23, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

--Thanks, Willmcw. I had some free time and pruned a little. ExRat 21:18, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


 * All blue, perhaps for the first time perhaps since it origin. Though I couldn't do it myself (I kept pausing and saying "gee, this person oughta have an article...") I am very glad you did it. I think that going forward the article now has a solid foundation. Due to the clear, strict criteria it should be easy to maintain from this point onward. Thanks for your careful efforts. -Willmcw 09:02, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

-- Thanks, Will. Yeah, I had some trouble letting some of the "red" people go as well, clearly they are notable AND gay and or bisexual, but I figured that since the page has grown so large, it wouldn't be very helpful to keep links leading to nowhere around. I figure, if they are notable enough, someone will eventually have to write an article about them and then they can be included. Thanks again. ExRat 05:18, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Citation convention


I appreciate your effort in checking, and often removing unsupported names from, the GLB list. Can I make a request? If you check a name, and find it is supported by the article, can you add a "+" next to the link, per our new convention? Or if you happen to find external evidence you feel supports the inclusion, can you please add the reference link (ideally using Jossi's suggestion of the "ref" tag... be sure to close it after opening). Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 08:56, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

-- Sure thing! Will do. I'll need to refresh myself on how to use the reference link though:) But, yes, absolutely will use the "+" for people with confirmation in Wiki bios. Cheers! ExRat 09:01, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

RfA vote
Hey ExRat. I wouldn't have asked, except you mentioned it on my talk page. If you'd like to chime in with a vote at Requests for adminship/Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters&mdash;but even more especially with a clarifying comment about the nature of our cooperation and intersection at the GLB list&mdash;that would be of enormous help in what is running a close vote (with a lot of "enemies" I've made for insisting on NPOV and WP:V at "controversial" topics voting "oppose"). Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 06:09, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Featured article for December 25th
I noticed you have listed yourself in Category:Atheist Wikipedians. That said, you will probably be interested in my suggested featured article for December 25th: Omnipotence paradox. The other suggestion being supported by others for that date is Christmas, although Raul654 has historically been against featuring articles on the same day as their anniversary/holiday. &mdash; BRIAN 0918 &bull; 2005-11-28 08:14

Thanks from Lulu

 * Always welcome. I appreciate all the work you put in, and am sorry that it didn't reach a consensus. You continuously do a strong job, and your efforts will be rewarded at some point. Keep editing away!ExRat 22:43, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

sorry
but I am of the opinion that Mr. Horsley is gay and since there is no longer a debated cat. to put him in this is the closest thing.

grazon 02:36, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Columbia University
Why are you removing the wiki-links? Rkevins82 19:29, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't remove any links at the Columbia University page. I haven't even visited that page. Feel free to look at my contribution page. I don't know what you mean??? The only university page I visited recently was Colgate University, and I didn't remove any links - in fact, I linked existing names of newspapers in the Journalism section of graduates. Please explain . . . I'm very confused. ExRat 06:02, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Silent Films
Many thanks for the "barnstar". You too have been doing good work on the silent film stars. On one I made a comment about POV and did some small changes rather than insert a notice as it was minor and not deliberate. I and others have a problem keeping things NPOV, its pretty normal to be overly descriptive at times. If interested, User:Wencer left a note on my talk page about helping out on this subject. Thanks again. - Ted Wilkes 17:38, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

PS: If you upload Public Domain photos, you can clean them up and reverse the image (as I did for Dora Gerson) to keep them on the right side of the page. - Ted Wilkes


 * Much thanks to you. I appreciate the commentary. I have absolutely nothing against most changes to any articles I contribute. After all, it is a public space, so any corrections are greatly appreciated by you or others. Feel free to edit away if you notice any typos, POV, or incorrect facts. I am really in awe of your amazing contribuions, especially in regards to silent film biographies. It's always a real pleasure to see another person resurrecting the legacy of people I am interested in, but so many others have forgotten. Thank you for the great work! ExRat 23:24, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Anti-Flag formed date
I have reverted you at Timeline of punk rock. Could you please cite a source that says they formed in 1993? Otherwise please don't continue to revert. The band was formed in 1988 and I would be happy to offer the sources that say 1988 right now for proof, see for yourself:, , and. Alex 101 20:00, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The second line-up of Anti-Flag is generally considered by most here in Pittsburgh as the creation of Anti-Flag. If you check the article, you'll see that Anti-Flag (as an actual band, and not a merely "concept") was formed in 1993, not 1988. But, either way, I'm not too concerned. Keep it listed as 1988, as that is technically correct as well. You seem a bit more worked up over it than me. ExRat 22:27, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Estonia
Apologies for reverting your alphabetization. After you somebody put a big picture of male genitals on the page, and I changed back to the one but last version. However, in the meantime, somebody (moderator or something) deleted the edit without me seeing it. Thijs! 10:10, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Serial Killer List
Hi ExRat, I was adding content to the list of serial killers (Stano) when the entry was deleted. The reason given was that no bio page existed. I was in the process of adding the bio information. I'm not sure which rule I violated (I'm new at this so admittedly, it could have been several). Should I have created the entire bio the made the entry? Thanks.

Mcgarrigle 17:24, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I need some Estonian lessons
Hey ExRat,

I've got a question for you which probably will be the easiest question you ever had, but which I'd like to be answered. I need to know some Estionian words which I need in a wiki article on the Dutch wiki. I know "second" is "teine" in Estonian, but I don't know what "first", "third", "fourth" and "fifth" are. Can you help me with this question? Please answer my question on my Dutch discussion page at, thanks in advance. FvS
 * Thanks for your quick reply, I really appreciate it. FvS

Klooga etc.
Just wanted to say that you are welcome and reciprocate with compliments about the quality and extent of your contributions. I have no data on Avdy Andresson though. Nevertheless, Cheers! --3 Löwi 17:08, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

LoPbN red links
Please don't delete rd-lk'd entries, especially without a summary. It can be argued that only actual bio articles should appear there, but even if that were the policy, the information that someone thinks there should be a bio should not simply be discarded: it can for instance go onto Requested articles.

As to the restriction you seem to favor, i would argue it would be a bad one. All articles are works in progress, and rd-lks are the lifeblood of many forms of progress. I made a list of probably 500 or a thousand rd-lks on LoPbN, and checked it later, which indicated that rd lks left in place on LoPbN tended to turn into bio-article lks at a rate something like 5% per month, which suggests leaving them in place is not very problematic, and may inspire the writing of the articles. --Jerzy•t 04:56, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for you reply.
 * I did note you also added at least one entry, which is welcome. I too kill (but one-by-one) a lot of the non-sports-star under-30 entries, with little or no discussion; if i included any in that category among those i put back, i did so in light of my perception (which i should have stated) that you'd indiscriminately deleted all rd-lks, and it was a less than ideal hasty expedient on my part. Please consider my reversion to be without prejudice to more targeted removals of vanity entries.
 * "Sorry" may be too strong on your part, given your good intentions. (In fact, i don't think your approach was even a dumb idea!) I intended to recruit you, a presumed relative newcomer, to more nuanced editing, but perhaps i sounded harshly critical, which i did not intend. Thanks! --Jerzy•t 05:33, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Maurice Costello
ExRat- some users are claiming that unless we can find a source that specfically says Costello was an "Irish-American" we can't put him on the List of Irish-American actors and presumably the category too. Please help to fight this madness at Village_pump_%28policy%29, Articles for deletion/Lists of Irish-Americans. Regards Arniep 23:50, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Many people disagree with him. It is quite amusing that he insists that people be sourced according to policy, but he actually breaks it himself by deciding that Irish is equivalent to Irish-American. Arniep 00:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

X-American list proposal
Hi, I am contacting you as you have expressed some interest in the current arguments over lists of X-Americans. I would appreciate if you could have a read of my proposal and state whether you support or oppose it WikiProject Ethnic groups/Rules for lists of X-Americans. Thanks! Arniep 11:27, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I was "berating" him
Because your presence or lack thereof would make no difference on the discussion. IT would just be a waste of my time explaining it all again to you. That's why it was completely pointless of Arniep to try and bring you in. Obviously, things would stay exactly as they are. With Grace Note, I was hoping his presence there would further narrow the "resistance", which it did. It's all about strategy - and I don't like it when people pursue strategies that just waste the time of all three people involved - Arniep, you, and me. Mad Jack 01:19, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Speaking of wasting time.... ExRat 01:40, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Mildred Harris
IMDb has a number of mistakes regarding thse films. There is no contemporary evidence that Harris played Dorothy in this film. She is not credited on either the film or the Oz Film Manufacturing Company's promotional cast list (verbatim below).

Violet Macmillan--Ojo, a Munchkin Boy Frank Moore--Unc Nunkie, Ojo's Guardian Raymond Russell--Dr. Pipt, the Crooked Magician Leontine Dranet--Margolotte, his wife, who makes the Patchwork Girl Bobbie Gould--Jesseva, his daughter, betrothed to Danx Marie Wayne--Jinjur, a Maid in the Emerald City Dick Rosson--Danx, a Noble Munchkin Frank Bristol--The Soldier with the Green Whiskers Ben Deeley--Rozyn, the Village Fiddler Fred Woodward--The Woozy, a Quaintness Todd Wright--The Wizard of Oz Herbert Glennon--The Scarecrow Al Roach--The Cowardly Lion Andy Anderson--The Hungry Tiger Fred Woodward--The Zoop, a Mystery Fred Woodward--Mewel, who is Everybody's Friend Jessie May Walsh--Ozma of Oz, the Ruler of the Emerald City William Cook--The Royal Chamberlain A cast of 79 others as Munchkins, Royal Guards, Tottenhots, Horners, Hoppers, Soldiers, Courtiers, Thorne Guards, and Train Bearers and The Marvelous Couderc as The Patchwork Girl

Dorothy does not even appear in the film.Scottandrewhutchins 22:07, 15 July 2006 (UTC)Scottandrewhutchins

Re: Mildred Harris
Yes, I'm the same Scott Hutchins who wrote An Oz Filmography. I e-mailed Michael Patrick Hearn, and he told me that Harris signed with the company while Patchwork Girl was in production, so Magic Cloak was her first role with them. Dorothy (played by Harris or otherwise) is not in the film (she is in the book, but with the presence of the added slightly older girl, Jesseva, she was probably seen as dispensible, as the main cast in the book was pretty crowded as it is without the addition of the Jesseva/Danx love story), and I've sent IMDb that correction.Scottandrewhutchins 03:35, 17 July 2006 (UTC)Scottandrewhutchins

Don't know if this helps
... but I started Talk:List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people --Francis Schonken 07:53, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Years first?
Hello,

I'm curious why you feel the years of Birth & Death need to be listed first in the Category box. To me they are the least important Categories.

Regards,


 * Michael David 13:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your response. I haven't been able to find a specific Wiki policy that covers in what order Categories should be listed in an Article (that doesn't mean there isn't one). Actually, I'm newer to Wiki than you (January of this year). I had noticed others placing the Year Categories last, and it made sense to me to do this, so I have been doing it ever since. It just seems that the subject categories are more important than the B & D dates.


 * I'll look closer to see if there is a policy covering this. In the meantime, if you find one, please let me know.


 * Be healthy,


 * Michael David 20:52, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

List of gay people
You seem a bit over-zealous at 'defending' people from being labelled gay. Thank you, by the way, for the compliment on my 'extreme intelligence'. As wikipedian editors, I don't feel it's really our place to be excluding sources based on our opinions of those sources. But rather, we should do due diligence, to convince ourselves that a source is or isn't reliable. A knee-jerk reaction is really out-of-place. As for Kluyev and Yesenin, I found a few places where their relationship is cited, but no other reliable source, so if you want to revert that's fine. As long as the mentoring relationship is made clear, and that they lived together. I fine with that. By the way your user page says you are a "Native Speaker of English", but in your reply on my talk you said that English isn't your first language. Wjhonson 22:05, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Steve Jurvetson
I'm not being snarky to you (notice the ;) in my last comment), I just enjoy making fun of vanity articles like this. Just because this guy has been on the cover of some minor trade publication called 'Profit' magazine doesn't mean he matters.  Being a VC in a small firm that got lucky on Skype means shit; by the same logic every lottery winner should be on wiki. He is not a household name.  Redgardless, I didn't comment on the deletion review because clearly I am biased when it comes to losers like this guy.  Happy wikipedia-ing Desertsky85451 00:25, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You're entitled to your opinion. To me, being the 'Valley's Sharpest VC' is kind of pathetic. Notable to me are people who actually come up with the ideas, not the people who finance them. I'm not the only one who feels this way.  Think of movies in Hollywood; the producers technically get the best picture Oscar for bankrolling the movie, but what average people really care about are the actors, screenwriters, cinematographers and directors: the creative talent. So this guy has a nose for investing money; whoop de do. When's he has Vanderbilt or Mellon-like cash, then I may reappraise my view of his notability.  For now, I grant him the ‘’honor’’ of stereotyped as a BMW-driving yuppie who probably lives in a McMansion. Keep up the good wiki-work.  Desertsky85451 00:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

lol, found you twice today
earlier i was bored and looking at AfC, found the List of LGB people, and noticed your name throughout the discussion. Then later i'm looking at the sad state the Oz project is in and find you again.... it's creepy XD just saying hi, and letting you know i'm joing the Oz project to help with the literary accuracy in plot details and character summaries along with doing some much needed navigation work (wikifying and merging), after all I hardly think anyone believes Madame Morrible needs her own page. coincidentally, while i think articles just for Dorothy and The Wizard are deserving (if only for their media and iconographic presence), what about Ozma, the "companions," and other (technically) secondary characters? In my opinion lists should probably be used to make sure someone who wants to find out which books/movies Ozma or the Tinman actually appeared in can do so, but the information presented on the stubs is easily disseminated or already found in other articles. Or perhaps we should make a page of notable secondary characters, giving a section to each. Hmm... i think i like the latter idea better, give me your thoughts! Zappernapper 23:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you!
I just noticed you've labeled the talk pages of several Estonia-related article with the Estonian WikiProject label. It's a huge help!! I was wondering if you'd like to join, by signing up under "Participants"? You've earned it with all of your help, and we'd certainly be glad to have you! Srose (talk)  14:35, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Your edits of Klooga concentration camp
I've reverted as follows: The first point may be handled differently by different editors, and my practice (as a professional Holocaust archivist) has historical integrity. There was never any such thing as the Kaunas Ghetto or Vilnius Ghetto, as the Lithuanian spellings did not come into use in English prior to 1991. I'll add a corresponding explanatory note to the article's Talk page as soon as I get an opportunity to do so. -- Cheers, Deborahjay 10:59, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The names I've used of city ghettos (Vilna and Kovno) and country (Belorussia) are the English spellings current at the time. There are precedents for using period-correct orthography for geographic names in Wikipedia articles.
 * According to the Wikipedia Manual of Style, the author's name in a References citation is written surname first.