User talk:Freeholdman12

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Copying within Wikipedia requires attribution
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Freehold Borough, New Jersey into Freehold Township, New Jersey. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g.,. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted copied template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was copied, attribution is not required. — Diannaa (talk) 10:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Raritan Valley region
I'm still not sure what the definition is for the Raritan Valley region, but the bigger issue has been puffery and sourcing. See my edit to the article for Freehold Township, New Jersey, in which I removed such real estate industry puffery such as "centrally located" and "premier regional commercial hub". Please be attuned to these issues. Alansohn (talk) 17:55, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

April 2021
Hello, I'm Zppix. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Middletown Township, New Jersey, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page.   Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ Talk 02:55, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Land of Pines, New Jersey
Hello, Freeholdman12. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Land of Pines, New Jersey, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Draft space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for article space.

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 08:01, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Jackson Premium Outlets (A Simon Center)


A tag has been placed on Jackson Premium Outlets (A Simon Center), requesting that it be deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under two or more of the criteria for speedy deletion, by which pages can be deleted at any time, without discussion. If the page meets any of these strictly-defined criteria, then it may soon be deleted by an administrator. The reasons it has been tagged are:
 * It seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. (See section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion.) Please read the guidelines on spam and FAQ/Organizations for more information.
 * It appears to be about a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.), individual animal, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. (See section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion.) Such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. StonyBrook (talk) 20:51, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Premium outlets
Hello Freeholdman12, this is a follow-up to the notice I placed above. First off, I want to assure you that I believe that you acted in very good faith when you created the outlet article. I know this because the article was put together well, and, as I later found out, is quite similar to a number of other premium outlet mall articles on Wikipedia. So you may ask why I nominated it for speedy deletion. You may also ask, why did admin agree with the tag. As for the admin, I will allow them to answer for themselves if they so wish. But I am here to tell you that I have had some misgivings since then. You should know that the main reason for my action was because, instead of you erasing the content on the redirect page Jackson Premium Outlets and inserting your article content there, you created an incorrect article title instead. For a new editor such as yourself, this is a reasonable mistake to make. So the next thing I did was check the sources, and since I found that they fell way short of what is normally required for articles here (see WP:N), and a simple internet search did not turn up much of anything better, I nominated it for speedy deletion. However, it is also true that I have no access to archived newspapers, wherein there might have been some coverage of this installation, especially while it was being planned and built. And after reading this essay, and as mentioned above, finding a few other premium outlet mall articles, flawed as they might be, I am now not entirely satisfied that I took the right action in this case. Although it is true that "other stuff exists" is not a rubric that we go by here, this article in and of itself was not a terrible idea. A more correct action on my part might have been to copy the article onto the redirect myself, and ask for Jackson Premium Outlets (A Simon Center) alone to be deleted, since it is not in any way a searchable term, even as a redirect. Be that as it may, my suggestion to you would be, if you so wish, to try and get a copy of the article from an/the admin, and make an effort (I cannot do it) to get reliable sources for it, and resubmit it again under the redirect name. Just be aware that this is not a slam dunk article to recreate. For example, no one has succeeded yet to create Camarillo Premium Outlets. Happy continued editing, StonyBrook (talk) 01:43, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Your drive to change "Transportation" to "Infrastructure"
I see your point, but you seem to be focused solely on adding the health care system. However, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_infrastructure, you should also add information on each town's financial system, the education system, the system of government, law enforcement, and emergency services. Most of these articles already have such information in separate sections, so if your drive is truly to create informative hard and soft infrastructure sections (instead of just focusing on health care), you should try to merge them in. Otherwise, perhaps you should back off. Famartin (talk) 09:48, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

See also for Adelphia, New Jersey and other communities
I'm not completely sure what you're trying to include in the See also section for Adelphia, New Jersey and other such communities, but it appears that this may be better implemented as a template describing what's being included and allowing the template to be updated without changing every article where the template is used. Alansohn (talk) 22:08, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Nearby historic communities
Explanation of the deletion of this section with the comment:
 * delete section, appears an WP:indiscriminate collection of articles not related to this article, not appropriate for a WP:See also section

I'm sure you meant well, WP:AGF, but I don't think this section is relevant or appropriate. The section is not found in either style guide, WP:NRHPMOS or WP:USCITIES. There are no reliable sources cited. The locations are not "nearby", they are many miles apart. "Historic" can have many meanings, often possible MOS:PUFFERY. NRHP articles are already grouped using list articles and categories. Communities are likewise already easily found.
 * Thanks, Zeete (talk) 13:13, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 10
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Your submission at Articles for creation: Jackson Premium Outlets (September 10)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Theroadislong was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Jackson Premium Outlets and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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Theroadislong (talk) 14:24, 10 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi @Theroadislong, I just made some edits to the article. I think I portray the article from a neutral standpoint. Also the article does have numerous independent sources. Freeholdman12 (talk) 14:30, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Jackson Premium Outlets has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Jackson Premium Outlets. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 14:34, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Jackson Premium Outlets (September 10)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Robert McClenon was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Jackson Premium Outlets and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Jackson_Premium_Outlets Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Robert_McClenon&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Jackson_Premium_Outlets reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Robert McClenon (talk) 20:28, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

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Concern regarding Draft:Jackson Premium Outlets
Hello, Freeholdman12. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Jackson Premium Outlets, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again&#32;or request that it be moved to your userspace.

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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 22:01, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Maplewood map
Pardon my ignorance, but what changed in this edit? I'm trying to understand the whole map phenomenon. Any assistance will be great. Alansohn (talk) 00:58, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Jackson Premium Outlets


Hello, Freeholdman12. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Jackson Premium Outlets".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 22:52, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Freehold Raceway Mall puffery
The puffery removed in this edit has nothing to do with the list of stores. It refers to such content as "However, once Nordstrom opened the Freehold Raceway Mall now had a store that was sure to be a success due to the fact there was not another Nordstrom store around for 30 mi" and "The explosive success of the Freehold Raceway Mall". Any disagreement? Alansohn (talk) 20:19, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, but then why did do you still remove the list of stores then? If you agree that simply having a list of a few stores isn't 'puffery', then I'm glad we both have a mutual understanding. I'd imagine you would consult with me if you have any issues.
 * It's far better to ping me here and keep the discussion in one place; put your response after mine and sign using four tildes ~ . In the edit summary for this edit, I explained "remove laundry list of retailers; see WikiProject Shopping Centers/Anchors and tenants". Puffery and lists of retails are two different things.

You're right, however the WikiProject Shopping Centers/Anchors and tenants that you referencing is talking about a full directory stores. Only listing a few stores does not constitute as a directory in that type of way. By that logic Alansohn, you would have to remove all references to non-anchor stores from these other shopping mall articles as well:

Woodbridge Center Menlo Park Mall Rockaway Townsquare Bridgewater Commons Danbury Fair (shopping mall)


 * They've been removed from all the articles that listed them (I didn't see any at Danbury Fair); I assume that's the only obstacle to removing that same laundry list from the article for Freehold raceway Mall. OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is never a good reason to violate a consensus. Again, you should use colons to indent and sign your responses using four tildes ~ Alansohn (talk) 21:12, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 27
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Monmouth County, New Jersey, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Freehold, New Jersey.

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Rearranging sections in articles
This edit says that you were "Rearranging 'Climate' and 'Ecology' sections". Per the guidelines at WP:USCITY, I relocated Ecology and Climate as subsections of Geography section, put Economy after Demographics and kept Emergency Services within Local government. Alansohn (talk) 16:11, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Restructing the article for Montclair
It's not perfect, and it's not a policy, but WikiProject Cities/US Guideline provides a useful guide of how to arrange articles; it has reached broad consensus nationwide as a structure and is followed in the overwhelming majority of articles for populated places. This edit does a major shuffle of the article, while simultaneously making several different major edits and rearranging sections in conflict with this guideline. In this massive shell game, it's almost impossible to figure out what changed and why. I raised the issue about WP:USCITY above and tried to explain the issues. Can I suggest that you review this guideline, do a better job of parsing your edits and try to work more collaboratively in making them? Alansohn (talk) 12:13, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Template:Raritan River
I noticed that you have added several "landmarks" to Template:Raritan River, such at the General Nathan Cooper Mansion. Could you please tell me the reason you added the General Nathan Cooper Mansion to a template about a watershed? Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 18:40, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Template:Raritan Valley navigation
This new Template:Raritan Valley navigation that you've created and started adding only duplicates much of what was problematic with Template:Raritan River, without addressing any of the issues that had been raised. What is it that this new template adds? Does the Raritan Valley differ from the Raritan River Watershed and, if so, what exactly is the difference? Alansohn (talk) 14:18, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Duplicative and overlapping templates
The article for Old Bridge Township, New Jersey now includes Template:Raritan Valley navigation, Template:Raritan River, Template:Raritan Bayshore and Template:Jersey Shore region, all of which overlap to a tremendous degree with each other. Both User:Magnolia677 and I have tried to reach out to you about these templates. Is there a reason that you're not communicating here? Alansohn (talk) 18:35, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Template:Jersey Shore region
I've reorganized and restructured Template:Jersey Shore region to make it more useful and to better mirror other comparable and overlapping templates. Let me know what you think. Alansohn (talk) 16:02, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Jersey Shore montage
Thank you for thinking of the idea of a montage for the Jersey Shore article, Freeholdman12! Brilliant idea! Best, Castncoot (talk) 18:46, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

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January 2024
I reverted your edits for various Florida-related templates because the color combination does not meet Wikipedia's accessibility standards (see MOS:COLOR). Mvcg66b3r (talk) 03:06, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

The new orange (#FF9100) passes contrast tests when used behind plain text, but unfortunately it still fails against links, which make up a large percentage of the text against colored backgrounds in the navboxes you edited (example one, example two). --Iiii I I I (talk) 19:07, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 02:52, 19 January 2024 (UTC)


 * @Freeholdman12 I am seeing a lot of messages left by other editors on your talk page with little in the form of a response. Some of your recent edits appear to be unconstructive and are likely to be reverted. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:18, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi @Ad Orientem. I'll respond to your message on my Talk Page, but I have already responded to these concerns on those users' respected talk pages. I have thoroughly addressed their concerns, as it pertains to some accessibility issues. In so long that the edits I have made comply to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility standards, then I genuinely do not see how they would be considered 'unconstructive'. Thank you. Freeholdman12 (talk) 01:24, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Making changes to various navboxes
This is getting disruptive with realizing you made changes to all 67 Florida county template navboxes with no consensus or input. The orange is horrible and shouldn't be used for every single county navbox. MOS:NAVBOXCOLOR applies and there was nothing wrong with the default colors used. – The Grid  ( talk )  18:13, 7 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi @The Grid. If you look through my messages, I actually did engage with feedback. Iiii I I provided some feedback on the accessibility of an earlier draft. I listened to their concerns, and toggled around to see what would be the best color coordination for this new template style for Florida related Navboxes, that would balance out a fresh color scheme that was inclusive to all readers. Unfortunately, there were some editors that did not engage in any good faith, and went ahead and went rogue on those edits (which were pretty time consuming, I might add). That was what I was referencing earlier, when I brought up the policy of please don't edit war over the color of Navigation boxes and Manual of Style/Accessibility (Color).
 * Now, you may not personally like the Orange coloring, and that is perfectly fine. But that is just an opinion. In the same way that, I personally think the color orange actually compliments Florid Navboxes pretty well, considering the state's most associated fruit is an Orange. It is not without precedent for regional related navigation boxes to have color templates besides the base color palettes (please see these examples: Western United States, California, Washington (state), Vermont, etc). Once again, I am open to good faith feedback, but I just don't appreciate when someone chooses to not engage with me first. If you want to continue this conversation on your personal talk page, @The Grid, I'd be happy to. Freeholdman12 (talk) 01:03, 8 February 2024 (UTC)