User talk:G-Long42

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May 2011
Hello Wif-la. If you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about in the article Women in Film Los Angeles, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:
 * 1) editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
 * 2) participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors; and
 * 3) linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Spam).

Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you. — Mike  Allen   05:25, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Blocked
Hi! I tried to post this on the COIN page but apparently didn't reply in time! My bad. My name is Ghen Long and here is what I was trying to post to defend my action. hello! I'm user WIF-la and yes you're absolutely right, I am associated with all three articles and made outside edits but honestly, because I'm new, was just starting to learn how to edit so I wanted to stick with what I know. My agenda is of course making sure that the facts about the awards and our non-profit is included within wikipedia but really would like to make sure that I'm doing it right. I edited a lot because I thought I was following the "verifiability" rule so I was redirecting to the women in film website with the listing of the awards. I am happy to revert the edits to the other articles but I was hoping if you could instruct me on how to keep them on- ie if I reference something outside the wif website- like where the Hollywood reporter announces the award? I would be happy to fix them all. I am also happy to take on editing other articles if you need help. I can also change my user name and not edit with this one (I didn't realize it would be viewed as being a single purpose account). I would really appreciate help and I welcome the scrutiny and hopefully constructive criticism on how to make the articles better and in line with the wikipedia quality standards. Any help is truly appreciated! I really didn't understand how you view COI and being a complete passive user of Wikipedia until now didn't understand how my actions would have been viewed as promotion. I'm sorry to need so much hand-holding on how to do this!Wif-la (talk) 18:57, 16 May 2011 (UTC)}

Also, assuming I get unblocked and allowed to edit under a non-SPA username (again, sorry about that!), may I fix the edits that I made as long as I follow the proper procedure which I believe is to post on the discussion page of the article that I'm affiliated with WIF, ask and welcome any edits regarding neutrality of the content and then make sure the verifiability reference is not the women in film page correct? Secondly, and again sorry for all the questions but some of the articles are a bit confusing so I'm trying to make sure I'm doing it properly, can you tell me what you mean by messy in the other articles and how I can clean it up properly? thanks again! Wif-la (talk) 18:57, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I've undone the block and removed the block notice (your unblock request was malformed and didn't get posted properly, but I got your email). I'm glad that you're willing to change your username per our guidelines, and have seen our COI guideline. The way to handle conflicts with other editors in regards to what links or other content should go into a talk page is simple - you just talk to them! :) There is currently a thread on the conflict of interest noticeboard (click here) where you can communicate with the person who brought the specific concern to the noticeboard, or talk to them on their talk page or any of the article talk pages. On Wikipedia, since every article is a collaboration between strangers it's very important to communicate with others. That doesn't mean that you have to ask before making any edits (actually in most cases we suggest that you don't) but in a case where there's a conflict of interest it's usually best to engage people in discussion before making a change to the article itself. In your case, you might explain the importance of the links or other information you wish to add, and perhaps ask others how best to include that information, and you might even just provide the information on the talk page and let someone add it for you.


 * I'd just like to note, it will be important for you to change your user name before you begin editing again. As soon as you can, make a request at the change username page and follow the instructions. If you have any questions about that process, or anything else, I would be happy to help. I have a "watch" on your talk page so I will be alerted if you post a question here as you did before. It also might be a good idea for you to post your desired username here before making your change request, so that I can check it out for you. Otherwise, you might wait a good while for your request to be reviewed just to see it rejected and you'd have to start all over. --  At am a  頭 23:36, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Coolness! Thanks so much! I am hoping to change it to some variation of my first initial(G) and last name (Long) possibly with a number or something as I imagine there are a few people out there with my last name :). I can then put that retire tag on this one (or someone can do it for me) and I'll communicate and ask questions of the people on COIN as you suggested. I've also talked to one of the editors about where you need specific editing done so I can contribute more so I'm working on pages I have no association with-- if I can figure out how to do this well, I think I can get more people to help with one of the WikiProjects (I'll make sure they understand about COIN and the SPA. Will G-Long or G-Long42 work (42 because of the Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy ) as a username? I can also put beside the retire tag what my new username is for the purposes of transparency...Wif-la (talk) 00:52, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, to be honest a name change will just change this account's name. Your user page, user talk page, history, password, everything will come along with it. The alternative is to create a new account and abandon this one, and just use the name you want for the new account. Either method works really, but if you create a new account I strongly suggest that you make it clear somewhere that this was your old account. People can get suspicious when someone changes accounts without proving a clear link between them (for good reason, because it often leads to abuse). Just requesting a rename of this account will probably be the easiest for you, if your request is approved then other people do all the work for you and you're done. By the way, the name you suggested sounds fine to me. --  At am a  頭 05:12, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay I see how it works- I'll try doing the name change route- thanks for the link- I wasn't sure how the name change worked so that's really helpful and thanks for helping out with the name suggestionWif-la (talk) 09:32, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay hope I did that right! I followed the instructions at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Changing_username/Simple but wasn't able to paste the request where it directed me to on the "click here" link (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Changing_username/Simple&action=edit) because of the IP block. Hopefully it meant to direct me back to my userpage!Wif-la (talk) 09:45, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Wif-la → G-Long42

 * Datestamp: 09:41, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Reason: now understand SPA and COIN policies and want to make sure I'm editing properly as per the guidance everyone has been kind enough to help with Wif-la (talk) 09:41, 17 May 2011 (UTC) Wif-la (talk) 09:41, 17 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I posted your request to the change user page, I just copied exactly what you posted above. Hopefully they'll approve it. --  At am a  頭 16:50, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

COIN proposal
Hi, Ghen, now that you've successfully gotten yourself unblocked and obtained an appropriate username, I will introduce myself. I am the editor who posted the problem to COIN here. If you wouldn't mind, please read the proposal I made going forward and see what you think. You can respond here on your Talk page. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:44, 17 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi BBb23. Sounds good. I really appreciate you taking it one step at a time with me and fully appreciate any advice and help you can give. I'll start with the Crystal + Lucy award page and keep the different pages as separate projects to ask you about if that's cool with you. So first step you said was to establish notability for the awards page? I didn't put up the page, I just put the list of award recipients together based on the wif.org webpage because I noticed originally it was asking for more information. I am happy to declare my conflict on the discussion page for the crystal + lucy awards but as you noticed, in some places, I didn't put in the original mention on the entertainer pages - I was just trying to make them verifiable and now understand that I didn't use "original sources". Did I get that right? In some cases (I think early on- I was getting really tired so I appreciate the amount of work the editors do here!) and especially when I got to the earlier awards, I had a harder time finding original sources because some of the HR or Variety articles are blocked from that early on- I think some of them made IMdb- would referencing that page on the discussion page and letting someone else post it be the appropriate way to not have to back out of everything? I could go back to each changed page (each actor page) and where we want to post the awards, I can simply put the code for it on the discussion page for someone else- with a reference html for anything other than the wif page. Would that work? Sorry I'm totally barraging you with questions!G-Long42 (talk) 02:06, 18 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Ghen, the first step is for you to back out all the changes you made to actress articles inserting the award. Then, if you can work on the Crystal article to clearly establish notability of the award. That would then make it easier for you to go to the Talk pages of actress articles and justify putting in the award. Your idea of removing the content from the actress page and inserting it on the Talk page as a request is a good one, but, although it would be easier for you, my preference is to remove it first (maybe you can save it somewhere for easier reinsertion later). I hope this makes sense. Feel free to ask questions if it doesn't. IMDb is not considered a reliable source for just about anything except maybe the existence of a movie, cast members, etc. The problem with IMDb is people can edit it, so it doesn't have the kind of robust fact-checking that other sources have.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:01, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh and I was googling "SuperLawyer"and this article came up - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Lawyers it looked a lot like what I've done with the WIF pages so I think it might be a user who needs help with the COIN issue too...G-Long42 (talk) 02:21, 18 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Hmm. The article was created and edited by pretty much one user, Blase40. It's also his only contributions to Wikipedia. There's no obvious COI based on his username, but it is odd that he says he's interested in electric guitars, search engine optimization, the Beatles, and indie rock, and then does nothing here except Super Lawyers. I'll tag the article, but I don't know what I should do about the inconsistencies.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:11, 18 May 2011 (UTC)


 * FYI, the Super Lawyers article was speedily deleted after I posted a message to COIN.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:26, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the update on this and my apologies for being slow on the changes to the Crystal Lucy's. I haven't been able to get onto wikipedia lately because of some issues I've had with my internet. But I'm back online now. Who would be the decision maker regarding notability of the awards itself? Again, I didn't create the actual Crystal + Lucy page - it had existed for some time before I googled it and found it...it now says (and I believe this is new) that it is supported by the Film Awards Task Force. Should I touch base with them to see whether it's now considered notable and what next steps I should take? I imagine they might know of some way to get references/sources for the pre-internet awards. I checked out the taskforce link and would love to participate but am still wary about COIN- should I instead just add myself to the discussion page under HELP and tell them that I would like to participate and want some feedback on the Crystal + Lucy's? I'm really trying to understand better "notability" and "sources" so I can help edit non-COIN (at least for me) entertainment articles and I thought the task forces and projects might be a great place to start.G-Long42 (talk) 16:24, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Women in Film Los Angeles page
I will go and to the discussion page and say that the creator of the page is affiliated with the page. Do you have any suggestions on how to establish notability in the article-should I just ask on the discussion page for a non-affiliated editor? I can find and cite on discussion pages for the article where other publications (online and offline), industry and womens publications have discussed WIF. I'm not sure because of COIN if it's better to edit, then on the discussion page state the conflict and emphasize that the reference is an original source or if the standard practice is to do it all on the discussion page and wait for someone non-affiliated to edit it? Any guidance is much appreciated. Also would it be better in your opinion to just merge the two pages I created regarding Women in Film Los Angeles and Women in Film and Television International (I did not create the Women in Film South Africa page) into just one big article about Women in Film? Big Thanks to everyone for all your guidance and support during this hand-holding learning process! G-Long42 (talk) 02:06, 18 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Best is for you to do everything on the Talk page and let someone else add the material. To establish notability, you want to give other editors specific third-party sources (not affiliated with WIF) that discuss WIF.


 * If all of the Women in Film stuff is interrelated, it might be better to do one article. Depends on how long it would get. Sometimes, breaking it down into multiple articles makes sense. It's hard for me to answer that - it's really a judgment call, and I don't know enough about the organization or what would end up being in the articles. That said, it sounds to me like one article might be better and easier to satisfy notability, too.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:05, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Great thanks for the information and for the heads up. I'll work on getting some stuff together on the talk page for Crystal + Lucy and then also make a note on the talk pages for the Women in Film chapters (including the South Africa one) about possibly merging that. I think it's probably best to have the awards on a standalone since article is already fairly long and is mostly a list of award winners and then the WIF pages can be cleaned up into one article on the umbrella organization with a list of the chapters (again- I'll make the suggestion on the talk pages for someone else to clean up). Thanks! G-Long42 (talk) 01:16, 20 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Ghen, what do you intend to do about the Crystal award information you added to actress articles? You've never clearly responded to that aspect of the road map. I addressed it in the section above.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:25, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Bbb23- I think I may have responded to you in the wrong place on my page. I've been looking at WP:BPCOI - I sure wish I had read this before I started editing! I think I should be used as an example of how not to edit properly! (LOL) Anyway, am trying to follow those guidelines by removing the reference to the wif.org page. In some cases, I had just added the wif.org page as a source for the fact of the award being given. I'm working on removing all references to the wif.org page from the actor pages. If the award is per se notable, is the "controversial edit" the addition of the wif.org page as the reference and do I need to add a reference at all? I'm happy to note the conflict on the discussion page but I don't have any say in who gets the Crystal + Lucy award. I'm wondering if it needs a reference at all if it is notable? for example, Crash won the 2006 Best Picture Oscar- as a fact it doesn't have a reference- only references regarding people's opinions of the win (there wasn't even a reference for Jack Nicholson's actions after announcing the winner). I've posted a question about it on the task project page to get help- I'm still pretty confused! and i started with the film The Women by posting about the deletion of the award on the discussion page. Hopefully that's a good first step in the right direction. G-Long42 (talk) 18:57, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Ghen, I'm a bit confused by your questions. First, you have to remove the references, which you say you're doing. You shouldn't then add them back, but suggest that they be added back on the actress's Talk page. Second, sourcing in Wikipedia is not always consistent. However, particularly for a lesser award (as compared to an Oscar, for example), a Crystal award should be sourced in my view.


 * You have a larger concern at the moment as one of your articles, Women in Film Los Angeles, has been nominated for speedy deletion. If you wish to challenge the proposed deletion, you need to act quickly and contest it. But you'd have to make a case that the organization is notable pursuant to third-party sources. There are also other grounds for the speedy deletion that you'd have to address. At a minimum, if you haven't already, I suggest saving the article contents on your computer (not on Wikipedia), in case it's deleted and you wish to try to recreate it in the future as an article.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:01, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Ghen, mistakes happen. Sorry for bombing you with warnings and such.  The main concern with the awards are notability.  Notability is established in reliable third party sources, such as Entertainment Weekly, Los Angeles Times, etc.  If these awards are discussed in sources like that, then notability has likely been established.  In our email I told you that the articles may go through AFD and you would be able to argue your case there.. but now it's being speedy deleted, which is more urgent. — Mike   Allen   23:25, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi bbb23 and Mike- thanks for the heads up. I understand it's just the WIFLA page that's up for speedy deletion so I'll address that and yes I will save the article contents per your suggestion bbb23- thanks! No worries about bombing me with warnings- it shows you guys care about editing and I appreciate the heads up. Bbb23- re my questions on Crystal + Lucy- yes I am working on removing the references and sorry by "add back" I didn't mean I would do them but suggest the source on the discussion page (I did post a question on the project film awards task page to ask for help with sourcing (again so I can make appropriate suggestions on the individual actors talk pages)G-Long42 (talk) 00:32, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Copyright problems with Women in Film Los Angeles
Hello. Concerning your contribution, Women in Film Los Angeles, please note that Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images obtained from other web sites or printed material, without the permission of the author(s). This article or image appears to be a direct copy from http://www.wif.org/about-wif/mission. As a copyright violation, Women in Film Los Angeles appears to qualify for deletion under the speedy deletion criteria. Women in Film Los Angeles has been tagged for deletion, and may have been deleted by the time you see this message. If you believe that the article or image is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under the Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License (CC-BY-SA) then you should do one of the following:


 * If you have permission from the author, leave a message explaining the details at Talk:Women in Film Los Angeles and send an email with the message to . See Requesting copyright permission for instructions.
 * If a note on the original website states that it is licensed under the CC-BY-SA license, leave a note at Talk:Women in Film Los Angeles with a link to where we can find that note.
 * If you hold the copyright to the material: send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the CC-BY-SA and GFDL, and note that you have done so on Talk:Women in Film Los Angeles.

However, for textual content, you may simply consider rewriting the content in your own words. While contributions are appreciated, Wikipedia must require all contributors to understand and comply with its copyright policy. Wikipedia takes copyright concerns very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. Thank you. Harley Hudson (talk) 01:10, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi Harley- I responded in the talk section already- as I just got this on my talk page after I had responded. I believe the issue is that I shouldn't rewrite anything on the page since I am associated with the organization. I have the original page saved if anyone wants to put it back up. Otherwise, I think anything I try to do to put the info back up will be flagged for deletion again...I can put the original text with a "rewritten mission statement" in the discussion page if anyone wants to recreate it.G-Long42 (talk) 01:28, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Harley, I don't know if you read this or any of the changes I made to the talk page of the deleted article for Women in Film but I have to say it certainly has been an incredibly frustrating experience trying to contribute to Wikipedia. Because I'm considered a conflict of interest, I've tried simply to put arguments on discussion/talk pages as per the instructions of the other editors who have been kind enough to help me but it seems like my efforts have been largely ignored.23:05, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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