User talk:Gamnamu

Welcome to DPRK editing at Wikipedia. I like your style. M.C. Brown Shoes 21:13, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

N. Korea Prison Camps
Gamnamu, thanks for your work on creating these pages. I think you've done an excellent job. However, I would like to propose merging most or all of the camps into a single page. I just don't think it's likely that many people are going to search for a specific camp name (unless that camp happens to be of particular note.) A central page listing all of the camps, a brief description, etc is much more likely to be useful to Wiki users, IMO. What are your thoughts on the matter?JoelWhy (talk) 13:47, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * JoelWhy, thanks for your interest and feedback. I think it is important to document the locations of human rights crimes in North Korea. If you look at the List of Nazi concentration camps, then you find even small camps being documented separately. For the political prison camps (Kwan-li-so) there is definitely enough information for separate pages. And quite some users search for a specific camp, e. g. Kaechon internment camp, when articles appear in the newspaper. For the reeducation camps (Kyo-hwa-so) the amount of available information is very different, for two there are detailed testimonies, for some of the others there are only limited (and often similar) details available yet. User:The Anome created most of the additional reeducation camp stubs and I then completed the list and added links. The advantage of separate pages is that coordinates can be added (where available), the location can be described in detail, specific details and testimonies for this camp can be given. The general overview about the North Korean prison system is provided in Human rights in North Korea with an overview and general (common) descriptions of the camps. Gamnamu (talk) 11:18, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

North Korea - unsafe citations
This is in reference to your revision (as of 04:09, 11 April 2012) of North Korea article. This link www.dailynk.com is assumed to host malware as warned by chrome browser. Please open the site in chrome browser to yourself. And give citations from valid links. (the kind of sites you cite are really silly and can be made by anyone, even you). I have came here to also question the hypocrisy of people who spend much time to rant their conceptions of human right violations in North Korea. Isn't it a double standard that you really don't care about human rights and try to expose the real rogue nations/human rights violators of the world? USA, a nation which sabotaged democracies in at least 40 nations, which gives patronage to most of the monarchies/autocracies, which killed maximum number of people through nuclear weapons, which massacred maximum people in 21st century (in Iraq and Afghanistan), which runs the most repressive detention camps in Guantanamo and so on, don't have a section in its page that corresponds to "human rights". If it doesn't have that section, what reason do you have to advocate for such a section in North Korea? Is wikipedia just a propaganda machine for you? Aravind V R (talk) 07:18, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello Aravind V R, the Daily NK is a reliable online newspaper and a good source of first-hand accounts from North Korea. But as the Daily NK criticizes the North Korean government, the site is from time to time attacked with malware, most likely, though this cannot be proven, by North Korean hackers (see e. g. report by Korea Economic Institute).
 * You could find a lot more valid links, from human rights organizations, e. g. an Amnesty International report, a Christian Solidarity Worldwide report; newspaper reports, e. g. The Guardian report; official government reports, e. g. Canadian Parliament hearing, Committee for Human Rights in North Korea report just to name some few.
 * Why do you assume political intentions and tell so much about human rights violations in other countries? The article is only about North Korea and this is not related to violations elsewhere (I assume they are covered in detail in other Wikipedia articles, e. g. Guantanamo Bay detention camp, Human rights in the United States and so on). Based on information by Amnesty International and other human rights organizations and testimonies from dozens of former prisoners, I’m convinced that there are massive human rights violations in North Korean prison camps. And I think the fate of these 200,000 political prisoners deserves to be documented. Do you really doubt human rights violations in North Korea and the existence of political prison camps? Then what do you think, why are Amnesty International, the United Nations and other organizations not allowed to visit these camps in North Korea? Gamnamu (talk) 16:18, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Your arguments don't hold water. By your own argument dailynk.com is such a silly website that can be hacked by anyone. Did you even care to reproduce the issue by opening the link on chrome browser? (It is possible that it is North Koreans who hack these websites that try to smear the name of their country) Secondly no link that can cause harm to the users of wikipedia should be included in the articles here, even when what they say is truth.
 * Now coming to the important matter, that an article of a nation should not be vandalized even if you have some links to prove your point. It is for this reason that I cited the example of the most rogue nation of the world which have their page clean without any criticism. You may certainly create articles like Human Rights in North Korea or whatever you want but outside the main page. Don't try to smear the name of a nation and its citizens. Also I am telling you, it is possible that all these can be mere propaganda (which is always political). Before the invasion of Iraq, every prick in the world ranted about the features of WMDs in Iraq. Now, after killing a million Iraqis in cold-blood, each of these crooks retracted their statements. Aravind V R (talk) 12:30, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello Aravind V R, just saw your comment on this change. You are seriously calling a correction “vandalism” that I did in October 2005 (!), and that remained unchanged for more than six years and for more than 300 changes by other users? If you have your “information” from KFA and KCNA, then I think we do not need to discuss further. Did you never ask yourself, why KFA and KCNA always only provide a positive view about the North Korean government and why there is no opposition in North Korea? And then you accuse others to provide “propaganda”, if they explain facts, which do not fit into your ideology. I trust Amnesty International and all 40 other human rights organizations in The International Coalition to Stop Crimes Against Humanity in North Korea (ICNK) much more (why should they lie? You trust them e. g. on Guantanamo, don’t you?) than any official announcements from the North Korean government (which is of course interested to deny inconvenient truths, as they did e. g. for the kidnapping of Japanese people until 2002) and I’m sure that political prison camps and human rights violations exist in North Korea.
 * The section Human Rights in the article North Korea exists already several years and thousands of edits (it was by the way not created by me). It seems you are the first to take issue in this and the same applies also to the Daily NK as a source, which dozens of users quoted before. Gamnamu (talk) 12:49, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Oh Kyu-won


The article Oh Kyu-won has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, all newly created biographies of living persons must have at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the prod blp tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within ten days, the article may be deleted, but you can when you are ready to add one. → B  music  ian  13:43, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Human rights in North Korea
Hello again, Gamnamu. Thanks for your comment and kind words. I do care about human rights in North Korea, and it is my sincere hope that the whole peninsular becomes bright one day. I searched this topic while I read an article about U.S. Representative Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, who voiced against China's repatriation of North Korean refugees. Chosun Ilbo and NPR's coverage on the story of Shin Dong-hyuk also caught my attention. When people talk about North Korea, they mostly focus on NK's nuclear ambitions, weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles. Although those are real security threats, human rights issues often have been shadowed by NK's nuclear program. Even in the South, very few media (mostly conservative ones) report on the issue and the liberal media are mostly quiet/skeptical about it: i.e. Hankyoreh's report on Oh Kil-nam's family. Notice that they call Oh Kil-nam, an "infamous defector" in the title.

Making international community more aware of the problem is essential in pressuring the North, and what you're doing is an important work. I'll be very happy to assist you if you ask my service on anything. Many thanks again, and keep up the good work! Best, --- PBJT (talk) 11:15, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello PBJT, fully agree with all your comments. I think it would be important to document the North Korean human rights violations and prison camps in other languages, especially in Korean and Chinese. It’s not for me to ask for any service. But let me put it this way: If I would be able to speak Korean (more than the few words I do) I think I would try to translate some important articles from the English to the Korean Wikipedia (not necessarily completely, could also be a summary; especially adding Korean references would be great). Maybe, as you have read the story of Shin Dong-hyuk, what about extending 개천 정치범수용소 (Kaechon internment camp) and/or creating a new article on 신동혁 (Shin Dong-hyuk (human rights activist) )? I think every additional sentence in any article on human rights in North Korea and every added reference is valuable! -- Gamnamu (talk) 14:19, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject North Korea
Hello again, Gamnamu. I translated Shin Dong-hyuk (human rights activist) at my workspace : 신동혁. My next job is expanding 개천 정치범수용소 (Kaechon internment camp). If you want any other articles to be translated, please list them at WikiProject North Korea. I already added some of my to-do list. Best, --- PBJT (talk) 19:27, 30 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello PBJT, wow the 신동혁 article looks really great (as far as I could judge without understanding Korean)! A big thank you for creating this article! Sorry, but I still added some few sentences to Shin Dong-hyuk (human rights activist) yesterday (it’s up to you whether you consider them worth adding to 신동혁 or not). I guess it is quite difficult to find Korean sources on this topic. This underscores even more the importance to create these articles in Korean and the value of your work. I also thought about putting a translation request to WikiProject North Korea, but my impression is that most people in this group are not native Koreans. That’s why I’m very happy about your contribution. Is there maybe a project for Korean people working on topics about (North) Korea? If you have any question or I could assist you with any information, please let me know. -- Gamnamu (talk) 11:43, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Shin Dong-hyuk
Many Thanks, Gamnamu. Translating the article was my pleasure, and I omitted your added sentences by mistake. Sorry about that! I'll make sure your sentences to be included in the Korean wiki after I finish translating Prison camp articles. A few things,: Best, --- PBJT (talk) 13:22, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Feel free to add a list of articles that you think important to WikiProject North Korea. It's on my watch list, and I'll check it frequently. I might be slow and couldn't translate everyday but I'll try to finish articles on the list.
 * While I translating Shin Dong-hyuk's article, I tried to search Korean news covering Shin's story. I found very few, and if I exclude Chojoongdong, there aren't many reliable sources for his story in Korean indeed. It could be an issue potentially, because many South Korean liberals do not read/trust Chojoongdong. But since the article has many reliable sources in English, it will pass the WP:RS problem.
 * To request English to Korean translation, you can actually ask at ko:위키백과:번역_요청. But, they might not be responsive. Overall, Korean Wikipedia isn't very active (from my personal impression) such that most articles are in stub or start class.

WP Korea in the Signpost
Hello Gamnamu. Have you consider to interview with WP Singpost? They say "it is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project." You can find the original post by Mabeenot at WP Korea's talk page. Best, ---PBJT (talk) 15:44, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

"Imprecise coordinates"?
Is there any chance you could improve these coordinates, rather than just removing them? -- The Anome (talk) 16:18, 6 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello The Anome, as the person, who has added the existing precise coordinates where available and also the imprecise coordinates for display on the North Korea maps (this is just the county/town where the camps are), I can ensure you that I have no intention to remove any useful information. As you can see for all camps with coordinates, when you display them on the satellite image, then you can exactly recognize a prison building. And I think that is what the Wikipedia user would expect. But for some camps, e. g. Chungsan concentration camp or Oro concentration camp the precise location has unfortunately not yet been identified on a satellite image by a former prisoner and published. And until we have these exact coordinates I would suggest to better keep the articles as coordinates missing. Hope you understand my point and agree. -- Gamnamu (talk) 16:53, 6 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, I do. Many thanks for your contributions, and please accept my apologies for the tone of my comment. -- The Anome (talk) 20:05, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Oh Kyu-won for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Oh Kyu-won is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Oh Kyu-won until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Your Lord and Master (talk) 08:05, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Oh Hae-won for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Oh Hae-won is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Oh Hae-won until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Your Lord and Master (talk) 08:06, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
&mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  essay  // 09:20, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 19
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Disambiguation link notification for February 6
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Mantapsan, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page North Korean nuclear test (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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punggye-ri coordinates
Hi. I noticed you wrote that the north Korean nuclear site is located 12 km (7.5 mi) northwest of Punggye-ri. could you say me the coordinates of the latter? I didn't find it. Regrads, Superzohar Talk 07:04, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello Superzohar, you could find this well documented in Wikimapia: The village Punggye-ri (Korean: 풍계리, Russian: Пхунгери) is located at this Wikimapia entry (at the bottom). The nuclear test side is around 12 km northwest at the end of the valley right in front of Mantapsan. Regards, --Gamnamu (talk) 12:50, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Felix Abt
I am sure you are right about Felix Abt but sourced text should not be removed unless it can be found to be outdated, biased, or based on unreliable references (see sourcing). I'll try to see if the text in question can be reworded better. Quis separabit? 17:53, 20 November 2014 (UTC)