User talk:JIP/Archive 8

Diary-X
Hey JIP, I've un-closed this, stricken my recomendation, and placed it on today's AfD page. It was a bit odd, and didn't get much love, so I'd like some wider participation. - brenneman (t) (c)  00:30, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Help with Translation!?
Can you help translate this for me to swedish? Many thanks in advance!

''The longest river (175 miles in Albania) is the Drin, which originates in the Kosovo region of Serbia. Other main rivers are the Seman, Shkumbin, and Vjosë, all of which drain the central part of the western plain. Albania also has many lakes, the most important of which are Lake Scutari (Liqeni i Shkodrës) in the northwest and Lakes Ohrid and Prespa along the eastern border.''

--Armour 10:27, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
 * My Swedish is not perfect, but I'll have a go anyway. Here is an attempt:
 * Den längsta ån (175 engelska mil) i Albania är Drin, som börjar i Kosovoregionen i Serbia. Övriga huvudåar är Seman, Shkumbin, och Vjosë, som alla flödar från den centrala delen av den västra slätten. Albania har också många sjöar, av vilka den viktigaste är Scutarisjön (Ligen i Shkodrës) i nordvästen och Ohrid- och Prespasjöarna bredvid den östra gränsen.
 * If you can, you should verify this with a native Swedish speaker. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 10:35, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

MONGO RfA
Thank you for supporting my quest for adminship. I really appreciate it and if there is anything I can do for you, never hesitate to ask!--MONGO 03:28, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Tabu (actress)
Hi, I realise that there is nothing much to merge and hence I had specified only a 2 day limit for discussion. However, the article to be merged was recently created by an anon IP (thru copy-paste from the original aticle). I hope that the merge notice would attract him to a discussion where he can be informed about redirects. It is difficult to communicate with the anon IP otherwise as it may not reach him. And by the way, the discussion link on the mege tag wd lead one to Talk:Tabu (actress) - that is where the discussion wd and shd take place. Hence, I left a note to that effect at Talk:Tabu "Tabassum Hashmi" - it is surprising that you still left your comments there. I've seen at least one merge happening despite strong and reasonable objections because they were on the wrong talkpage and the person merging the articles did not see them. --Gurubrahma 11:31, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your support!
Hi, JIP. I just want to thank you very much for supporting my RfA, and to say also that I hope I'll make a good job of it. I'm supposed to be working on an assignment at the moment, and had delayed thanking people, but I'm finding the new rollback button so easy to use that I'm just keeping Wikipedia open on my browser while working on other things, and I thought I'd like to thank at least a few of my supporters while I'm here. Cheers. AnnH (talk) 19:29, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Sean Black RfA
Thank you very much for your support of my RfA. Thanks, in part, to you, I am now an Administrator, and I pledge to use my newfound powers for good rather than evil. Thanks again!--Sean|Bla ck 07:53, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Test
Ana Yusuf al-Amriki. Ana la terrorist. Ana Wikipedian kwayyis wa amin. Inta Yahud? Al-Amriki 14:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't understand Arabic. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 14:05, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Stop vandalising my work!
 * It is you who is vandalising here. If you vandalise Wikipedia one more time I will block you. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 14:09, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Show me what I vandalised!
 * You created a redirect page to Sunni Islam with an extremely offensive title, and when I added a test template to your talk page, you blanked it with an edit summary "reverted vandlaism" (sic). &mdash; J I P  | Talk 14:13, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I added a template to your page and you reverted it, too!!!! So you also did double vandalism! You should be ashamed. I only made one special page for Sunni!
 * I will not have vandals falsely accusing me of vandalism. Your "one special page for Sunni" was offensively titled and thus a breach of WP:NPOV. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 14:16, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well I will also not have vandals accuse me of vandalism! So we are in same situation. You arwe not boss, even if you hate Shia Al-Amriki 14:18, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * You've got it all wrong. I couldn't personally care less about Shia or Sunni Muslims. I stay out of such conflicts. I'm here as a Wikipedia admin upholding the NPOV policy. If you want to post hate articles about Sunni Muslims, do it somewhere else. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 14:20, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * And if you want to attak Shia and support Sunni ni there HATE CRIME you welcome!
 * Thanks, but I don't want to. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 14:22, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Wondering...
And what discussion do you mean? Halibutt 15:02, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * My discussion with other users in Finnish and your discussion with other users in Polish. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 15:17, 28 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, it certainly seems a black magic to me :) BTW,

I would like to express my thanks to all the people who took part in my (failed) RfA voting. I was both surprised and delighted about the amount of support votes and all the kind words! I was also surprised by the amount of people who stated clearly that they do care, be it by voting in for or against my candidacy. That's what Wiki community is about and I'm really pleased to see that it works. As my RfA voting failed with 71% support, I don't plan to reapply for adminship any more. However, I hope I might still be of some help to the community. Cheers! Halibutt 05:10, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Proof that 0.999... equals 1
JIP, I apologize if I'm a little harsh on Talk:Proof that 0.999... equals 1, but I really think that you, along with many other thoughtful and intelligent people, are dealing with our anonymous friend(s) in exactly the wrong way. They'll post some scatterbrained argument making one or two fatal errors and a dozen minor errors. When you point out all of their errors, they get confused and start whining about the little points without ever addressing their worst mistakes. The gravest consequence is that the discussion, if you can call it that, is perpetually branching out and shifting around. The talk page, being linear and forgetful, can't handle it.

If we instead focus on one error at a time, preferably the most glaring and easiest to correct, the other side has a harder time weaseling out of it. True, they have multiple faces, so we must also encourage them to sign in. I'm optimistic that such an approach can work; I suspect you're optimistic too, since you've spent so much energy already! Melchoir 19:48, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Notable persons in Helsinki
I'll really have to agree with you there. I also added in short descriptions of the persons, since some aren't that obvious without a context.

Also i added in Helene Schjerfbeck... But she and ragnar granit are a bit troubling on the lsit since they just lived tehir youth or so in helsinki and then moved away... but i guess they are natives anyway. Also, does Sami Garam really need to make it onto the list? he could be mentioned elsewhere, such as in the article about Helsinki slang.
 * I think both Schjerfbeck (damn, that is hard to spell) and Granit should be there. If they were born in Helsinki, they're native Helsinkians. Both have achieved international fame. Upon further review, I don't think neither Kirka Babitzin or Sami Garam is internationally notable enough to be mentioned on the Helsinki article on the English Wikipedia. They can be mentioned on the Finnish Wikipedia. I seriously doubt anyone outside Finland has ever heard of Babitzin or Garam. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 14:17, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Finnish culture nudge
So I went to your user page from an answer on the reference desk, and as I find culture interesting, I looked for Finnish culture and found that was a bit of a mess, as is Culture of Finland, and neither seems to coordinate well with what is in Finland. Any chance you'd like to find some citable sources to fix those articles up a bit? :) You seem uniquely qualified. - Taxman Talk 21:03, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Kata Kärkkäinen
_ _ Thank you for the entry on List of people by name: Kv-Kz, tho i've reverted you & moved the entry to List of people by name: Ka. On reflection, i'm sure you'll agree. _ _ The problem is two-fold:
 * Kärkkäinen, Kata, (born 1968), Finnish author, artist and model
 * 1) Many of en:'s users are monolingual (in English) or at best bilingual, and have no idea where in the alphabet to look for most of the letters beyond the standard 26 modern English ones.
 * 2) Conforming to non-English standards of alphabetizing additional letters (whether
 * 3) * the old-English (Edh, Thorn, and another (Yogh?), and a couple of what i think of as AE and OE diagraphs), or
 * 4) * parallels to these in modern Scandinavian languges, or
 * 5) * the German ess-zet character ß, or
 * 6) * the various diacritically marked letters like the characters ä in Kärkkäinen
 * ) may be a tractable problem for English and any one other language, but establishing an approach that is consistent with the practices of all the Latin-alphabet languages is currently hopeless and likely to remain so. Let me give you one mind-boggling case that i happen to have gotten a Polish colleague to turn up for me many years ago.  I asked whether the diacritically marked characters in Polish are treated as separate characters, or versions of same character.  (For example, in English, the rare use of diaresis as in coöperate is to my knowledge always alphabetized as if the diaresis made no difference: that word would fall between "cooperatd" and "cooperatf"; i thus describe this as o and (English) ö as two versions of the same letter.)  She consulted a Polish dictionary, and it was immediately clear that Ł, the "slashed L" character that appears in the middle of Lech Wałęsa's surname, had a separate "chapter" in that dictionary for the words that began with it: Lz would precede Ła. After some difficulty finding a definitive example, she surprised us both by demonstrating that nevertheless, when the marked character fell anywhere but as the first character of a word, it was alphabetized as if the "slash" made no difference, i.e., Walesa and Wałesa would both belong together between Wales and Walesba, which in turn belong between Wak and Wam.  That practice may have been an idiosyncracy of one Polish editor or publisher for all i know, but IMO it is sufficient to dash the hope of finding a diacritic-sensitive collating sequence that would not violate some Latin-alphabet language's practices. And that's before even coming to grips with how to order two characters that aren't both part of the alphabet of any single language, and what to do about pairs of characters that do both appear in multiple languages, but the languages disagree about their order. And finally, is Wikipedia capable of informing the average user what the system is? I see no great hope of that.

_ _ Instead, what i've been doing is this: Edh and Thorn are alphabetized like TH, and ß like SS, and the more obvious "diagraph" letters like the separated pairs; diacritical marks are ignored in alphabetizing. Where there are common substitutions (AA for Å, UE for Ü, etc.), i try to set up duplicate entries, like Håkon following Hakom and Haakon following Ha, on separate pages. It's not perfect, but it's fairly intuitive, and i don't think any alternative comes close to being workable, even if isolated examples seem simple. _ _ So i hope you don't feel offended by my reversion. --Jerzy•t 13:12, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I didn't notice your note at Talk:List of people by name: Sta until just now; i hope i've answered that explicit objection. There is no matter of national pride involved here; Swedes and Finns should continue doing what they are used to in Swedish- and Finnish-language contexts, but LoPbN is an Englishlanguage list, and those who are too inflexible to anticipate that English will handle characters "foreign" characters differently and adjust to it probably are not really bilingual. --Jerzy•t 13:21, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * JIP, I pointed out the same issue to you a while ago, but got no response, and I can't see that you have replied to Jerzy either. Instead I notice that you continue to change sort order at Kråkö (which I have reverted). u p p l a n d 12:39, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I saw Jerzy's message and thought that he was sort of right. In a listing containing people from everywhere in the world, we should stick to a basic, non-locale-specific sorting order, which ignores accent marks. But I have to disagree in this case. Category:Islands in Finland is specific to Finland, and to only Finland. Kråkö is a Swedish-speaking island in Finland, and both Finnish and Swedish alphabetise å and ö as separate letters. Just because we're on an English-speaking Wikipedia doesn't mean we can bastardise other languages. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 12:44, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't personally have any trouble with diacriticless sorting and don't really see it as bastardizing; as long as we can keep the diacritics in the actual titles and texts, I think it is OK if English-speakers (and all other non-Nordics) can chose to ignore these things when looking in categories and lists. We may be lucky in that Å, Ä and Ö fit in at the end of the alphabet, after the "English" letters, but are you certain they actually come in the right order? u p p l a n d 12:58, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Neal Chase and Pepe Remey
You may see my justifications here:

Articles_for_deletion/Neal_Chase

Articles for deletion/Pepe Remey

I admit freely to being biased here — however, I have confined myself to basing my arguments entirely upon wikipedia guidelines, policies and reliable, if online, resources. Several of the Keep votes appear partisan supporters (one can tell from the jargon in their responses) who have asserted that these article do meet these criteria — but have offered no supporting evidence. This is, frankly, a very common approach Jeffmichaud seems to take. It's quite tiresome to actually do the research only to be met with another round of unsubstantiated assertions.

Thank you for inviting my comments. I hope they clarify my thoughts. MARussellPESE 14:57, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. I do not mind if you are biased, the articles will be judged by other Wikipedians anyway. I am merely doing my adminship duties here, and I feel that marking reasonably well-written articles that claim some notability as CSD's is wrong - they should be sent to AfD instead. I take no stance on the AfD discussion itself. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 15:01, 2 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Ahhh, I see your point viz. SCD vs. AfD — and you're right. Newbie mistake on my part. Mille grazie. MARussellPESE 15:37, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you!
Hi JIP, I would like to thank you for your support and kind words on my RfA. I'll do my best to be a good administrator. If you need anything, or if I ever do something wrong with my new powers, please contact me. Mushroom 16:51, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Newspaper article
I'm curious about the  Helsingin sanomat article you mentioned on the WP:HD. Since you are not allowed to translate it fully, could you just give me an idea about what it was about? --Commander Keane 21:58, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


 * It seemed to be pretty much a general introduction to Wikipedia, which the newspaper assumes the most of its readership has never heard of. It started off by describing Jimbo Wales, and then explaining what Wikipedia is all about. It mentioned that Wikipedia has over 2.5 million articles in almost 200 languages, although many of these languages include only very few, if any, articles. The main point of the article was to compare Wikipedia to Linux, the best known free software project in the world, and to explain the fact that anyone can edit Wikipedia. The article mentioned that some people say that because Wikipedia can be edited, it cannot be trusted, but also said that factual errors, propaganda and patent nonsense is often removed within minutes. There was an additional comment, by another writer, about doing empirical testing of Wikipedia and not touching the philosophical issues. Both the Finnish and the English Wikipedia proved worse than paper encyclopedias when it came to traditional topics, but much better when it came to articles about modern technology. Facta 2001, the Finnish encyclopedia tested, did not even contain anything about the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. Neither it or the Encyclopedia Britannica mentioned podcasting or phishing, for example. The comment also said that the English Wikipedia was "more mature" than the Finnish one but I don't know what it meant by that. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 22:21, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Wow, great description; you should write for an encyclopedia :). Maybe the "more mature" comment was just about the development level, with the Finnish Wikipedia (I'm guessing) still an the infant stages compared with EN (having said that, all meaning may have been lost in translation, I don't know). Thanks for the above, it was above and beyond the call of duty.--Commander Keane 23:28, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

{applause}
for the "Wikipedia management sign" in Male and female relationships What the Bible really says about them. (religious veiwpoint.) - Just zis Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 21:15, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm an admin now!!
Thanks a ton for your support on my rfa, the final tally was 50-0-0; I'll try and live up to the expectations of others and do my best in maintaining the integrity of Wikipedia. --Gurubrahma 14:28, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

BD2412's RfA
Although my RfA is not over yet, I figured that since so many people voted before it had been posted, I may as well start thanking people before it wraps up. It'll take me that long to thank everyone who voted anyway! Thank you, for your support, JIP. I swear I wasn't an admin already - and I'll do my best as an admin to make the reality of Wikipedia rise to the level of the dream. BD2412 T 23:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Unblocking 82.153.64.0/18
This is a pretty big range (16382) to be blocking for 24 hours, and it catches a legitimate user in its net. I'm going to unblock it, because you're not accessible via email to try to get in touch with you, and there's nothing on WP:AN/I that suggests a major incident from this address. If there's a bad problem from Eclipse, you might try contacting them and seeing if they subnet, so you can identify a smaller range to block. You might also want to set an email address so people you've blocked can get in touch. Cheers! Demi T/C 01:47, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Indeed, I tried editing yesterday and was blocked - even though I had logged into my username. I thought before now that a username would supersede the underlying ip address but it seems that that is not the case. I tried emailing you but as mentioned above you have no email set. I'm not the 'pedias most active editor by a long way so it didn't cause me too much angst... but would prefer it not to happen again :o) CheekyMonkey 19:05, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your comments. The reason for the range block was continuing vandalism to Jay Leno from three IP addresses in the same range, so I decided not to waste my time blocking individual addresses (there could have been many more), but instead hastily calculated which range the IPs fall in and blocked the entire range. The vandalism from that range seems to have stopped but there is more vandalism from non-related IPs. Why is that article getting constantly vandalised? &mdash; J I P  | Talk 19:21, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Beats me, Eclipse is a British ISP and a lot of the vandalism seems to take offense at alleged anti-French comments he's made. CheekyMonkey 00:25, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikifiddler is being merged to Andrew Orlowski
I'm contacting you because your help is needed and because you recently cast a vote on Articles for deletion/Wikifiddler. , who has been actively campaigning in that AfD for the keeping of the article, has in the meantime been repeatedly copying the entire contents of Wikifiddler verbatim into Andrew Orlowski -- each and every time marking it falsely as a minor edit, and with either no edit summary or with a false one such as "rv blanking vandalism". Obviously this is unacceptable; AfD has no meaning if any editor can unilaterally save any text from deletion by simply merging it into a different article. Please assist me in resisting this attempt to circumvent AfD. -- Antaeus Feldspar 23:19, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

My failed RFA :)
Dear JIP, I would like to thank you for supporting me on my RfA. Even though it failed with a with the final tally of 55/22/6, I want to thank you anyways. I don't want to be one a admin anymore until I reach 10,000 edits now that it's over with. Thanks --Jaranda wat's sup 03:27, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Re: Cat:Comic Book titles

 * Why are you removing articles from Category:Comic book titles?

Technically, I'm not. I'm just making sure they're in the appropriate subcats (and, where they were to start with, removing them from the supercat to avoid duplication). - SoM 14:35, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 14:36, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Yet Another RFA Thank You Note to clutter up your talk page...
JIP:

Just wanted to drop you a note to say thanks for supporting me in my recent RFA. I will strive to continue to be "OK" now that I have been promoted to admin. ;-)

All the best. → Ξxtreme Unction {yak ł blah } 22:47, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Re: Elizabeth Riker
Riker's bio at www.startrek.com lists her name.

Deleted article Prophix
I have been involved in a lengthy, over half a dozen messages, email dialogue with the creator of this article. He requested that its contents at time of deletion be moved to User:Jpuopolo/Prophix so that he may make it into an appropriate article. He has accepted my help in reviewing for notability, inclusion and NPOV guidelines before putting it into the main article namespace. WAvegetarian (talk) (email)   (contribs) 02:12, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I have undeleted Jpuopolo's newest edit to Prophix, copy-pasted its contents to User:Jpuopolo/Prophix and deleted Prophix again. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 09:36, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Speedy deletion?
Hi JIP,

Can you please take a look at this page Bahá'í building projects and see if meets the criteria for speedy deletion. -- Jeff3000 20:09, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * As such, its contents would not have met the criteria, but I found out that it was redundant with the Building projects section in Bahá'í apologeptics, so I moved the list of building projects there and speedy deleted the building projects article, which had become a duplicate. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 20:40, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yup, that's where it was originally, and the author of the article copied it into the new article. Thanks -- Jeff3000 22:12, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Krece se lajda francuska
Can someone please explain why is this topic constantly beeing deleted? What is the problem with posting the lyric for a traditional song?
 * Song lyrics are generally copyrighted, but I am not so sure about this case, as it is a traditional song. But I think the main reason is that song lyrics, by themselves, are not encyclopedic. An encyclopedia article about the song should tell about the history and usage of the song, and not just post the lyrics. Just posting the lyrics doesn't tell us why the lyrics are there, or why we should be interested in them. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 09:49, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Albert Clark
JIP, I am curious as to why the article about Albert Clark was deleted. He was one of the key people in establishing the requirement for the internet and email and relational databases (much of ORACLE was created for his government applications). He handpicked a dozen of the top Air Force computer professionals and prototyped about everything for the government over a 10 year period. While others were posturing, he was prototyping. As of a few months ago he was still working in government computer related R&D which you probably won't know about for another few years. It is shame on the young people to think they know it all when they know so little. There will never be a textbook writen by a college professor to get royalties that will give credit to a government employee. Professors help professors. So what are you learning? What contributions have you made to the world that you can delete an article trying to tell the truth. Oh, GPS, Albert Clark is also the one that wrote a 30 page whitepaper establishing the term GPS and its application and commercialization. In 1980 he described handheld GPS systems when the receiver technology took a hundred cubic feet. That paper got the Congressional funding for GPS to be completed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.22.221.73 (talk • contribs)
 * I don't personally know almost anything about Albert Clark. I was only doing my adminship duties by closing Articles for deletion/Albert Clark. I counted four delete votes (one weak) and one keep vote, which I took as a consensus for deletion. If you want, you can bring the issue up at Deletion review. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 13:15, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

My RFA
Thank you for your comments. I apologize if I offended you or made the situation worse than it already was. That was never my intention and I like to think I learned a great deal about Wikipedia from that experience and am a better Wikiepdian for it. I made mistakes and for that I am sorry. No hard feelings for your oppose vote. I was not surprised that it came up (see my answer to number 3). Thanks again and have a good one!Gator (talk) 21:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Deletion of HaJaBaRaLa
Hi, you delete dthis article HaJaBaRaLa minutes after it was put the reason being inadequate information. I have again posted the article with supposedly adequate info. My queries are:

1)What may constitute the adequacy of an article?

2)How could you find out that this article had less information so promptly?Are you administrators are always on the prowl??!!!!

Bye Dwaipayanc
 * Well, as to your first question, when I deleted the article, it only mentioned that it was a fiction by some author. That was so little information that it was useless. Currently the article is adequate because it contains a description of what the fiction is all about. As to your second question, I was browsing through recent changes (see the link "Recent changes" in the left-hand sidebar) and saw that someone had nominated your article for speedy deletion. No, we admins aren't always on the prowl, but many of us patrol the recent changes quite often. &mdash; J I P  | Talk 11:08, 14 December 2005 (UTC)