User talk:JackofOz/Archive 32

One last issue related to Legend disambiguation
Since you took the time to consider the issues at Talk:Legend (disambiguation), I am hoping you might help us consider a related issue at Talk:Legends (TV series).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:59, 10 September 2014 (UTC)


 * So far, about half of the people who took part in the recent merger discussion have considered this related matter and half haven't. This leaves us on the border between consensus and no consensus. It would be great if could take a moment to consider the simple matter at Talk:Legends (TV series). A few more voices should make it clear if there is a consensus opinion or not.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:01, 13 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I don't even remember why I got involved in that ivote, but my interest has now waned to the point of non-existence, so I won't be participating. Thanks for the invite, though.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  00:16, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

List of Ethnic slurs addition.
I notice that the German section fails to include "Deutsch Bag" from the list of ethnic slurs.

I would also like to add that there is no section for Scandinavians. Being Norwegian myself, I believe it is not out of place for me to recommend adding "sea jew" and "mountain monkey" to the list. Furthermore, I'm requesting that you also add "herring choker" as I have heard it before.

Thank you for your time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.145.152.19 (talk) 19:46, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

September 2014
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 * Strachey as the inspiration behind Cedric Furber in Wyndham Lewis's The Self-Condemned. In Lewis's novel The Apes of God he is seen in the character of Matthew Plunkett, whom Holroyd

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 * [Category:Living people]

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 * |Brian Inglis]], 90, Australian businessman, former Managing Director of Ford Australia. http://tributes.geelongadvertiser.com.au/notice/76692043?random=1411787568375 Geelong Advertiser,

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Removal of Bloomsbury Group category from E. M. Forster
Hello. I noticed to E. M. Forster where you deleted Category:Bloomsbury Group. Your edit summary noted 'redundant cat', however I don't see where else that category appears in the article. Or does membership of the eponymous Category:E. M. Forster within the Bloomsbury Group category preclude membership of the article itself in the category? I'll admit that I'm not well-versed in the intricacies of categorization, so perhaps I'm missing something that should be obvious to me. Thank you. —Waldhorn (talk) 06:24, 15 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Your second thought was the correct one. "... membership of the eponymous Category:E. M. Forster within the Bloomsbury Group category" does not so much "preclude membership of the article itself in the category" as make it unnecessary and redundant.  Essentially, if article A is in Category B, and Category B is itself a sub-cat of Category C, then article A doesn't really need to be in Category B after all, does it.  This is particularly the case where Category B is an eponymous category such as Category:E. M. Forster.  The article E. M. Forster will be in every category that Category:E. M. Forster is in, simply by virtue of that category being in those other categories, so we don't need to double up.  Thanks for the query.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  07:34, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your thorough explanation. In rereading WP:EPONYMOUS, I gather that this can be modified by consensus, yes? Meanwhile, in looking at Category:Bloomsbury Group, it appears that the same logic should apply to John Maynard Keynes‎ and Virginia Woolf‎. Perhaps I'll make similar edits as yours and see if the web falls apart. As an aside, it appears that Category:Strachey family should perhaps be removed from the Bloomsbury Group category, which I've taken to talk. —Waldhorn (talk) 00:26, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Try as I might, I have not yet succeeded in breaking the Internet, or even causing Wikipedia to abort and have to reboot. You may have better luck.  :)  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  00:30, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

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Grace Kelly
Hello,

We are contacting you because we are Cornell students who are currently taking an Online Communities class and one of our projects consists on editing a Wikipedia page. Our final goal is to accurately inform readers and to improve an article from a C class level to a B. We chose to work on Grace Kelly's page. Since you have previously edited her page, we wanted to reach out to you and ask for any tips, advice, or important aspects that you would like us to consider when we start working. We would like to add features of her personal life, professional achievements, and her legacy in different areas–especially focused on fashion. Our group members have the following user pages:

- dcl248

- Kategruenberg

- Mfrosselot

- CeciliaIachetta

In this link you can find our Wikipedia class page and the description of our assignment: Cornell University Online Communities (Fall 2014)

Hopefully we can count on your constructive feedback and hear back from you soon! Kategruenberg (talk) 02:40, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

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Joseph Giacomo Ferari
Thanks for catching my typo, how did you come across such an obscure article? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 22:51, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Sometimes, in my moments of quiet desperation, I achieve a measure of pseudo-sanity by idly viewing random articles and fixing whatever obvious errors there are. There's always something, no matter how minor (whatever that means).  And there's always the chance I'll learn something new (unlikely, but technically possible).  As well as the textual content, I usually check out the categories the article is in, and find out how many other articles in those categories are out of place (usually due to the absence of a Defaultsort; e.g. Abraham Lincoln appearing under A for Abraham rather than L for Lincoln), which I then correct.  You'd be amazed how many articles there are that are well written, well structured, well sourced and all the rest, but have a collection of categories in every one of which the entry is out of place, and I have to wonder what the point of all that work was if the author(s) obviously never checked that the title appears where it's supposed to.  Anyway, I've heard that people are different.  Weird.  It's mindless work in a way, but I adhere to the principle of always leaving a place (very broadly defined) in no worse a state than when I arrived, and if possible, better.  Value comes in many guises, and as the late Queen Mother was wont to say, according to Peter Ustinov's testimony, "Everyone can help".  I've edited over 38,000 unique pages, but I have only c. 9,000 on my watchlist, so that gives you some idea of how far my sinister reach extends.  Thanks for the opportunity to share these melancholy musings with you.  It's all up from here.  :) --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  02:37, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I start the articles based on the images that are released each week by the Library of Congress at Flickr Commons. They have images with the people identified by name, but no additional context. They crowdsource the context. Sometimes it is easy and the person is already in Wikipedia under a variation of their name. Other times it requires going through newspaper archives online to find the event that was photographed. There have been some beautiful images. You can see the current selection I am working on here: User:Richard_Arthur_Norton_(1958-_) --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 13:40, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Redlink? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  13:48, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Byron Bay
Hiya Jack.

Just wanted to say that I noticed you edited a Byron Bay page not to long ago. Do you luve in the area? It looks so amazingly beautiful!! I live in the u.s. Florida. And the beaches don't look half as nice. I would love to move there one day. Anyway thanks for reading. Bob.173.209.212.244 (talk) 17:10, 27 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Bob. No, I've visited the area but I don't live there.  Nor do I love there.  Or even luve there.  :)  :)  Cheers --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:09, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

:-)
Hello J. I had to smile at this. A fifteen hour long song - if that gets stuck in my head I am done for. I hope that you are well and enjoying your weekend. Cheers. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 00:56, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Locus iste
If we really want to find out who was the fattest conductor and who inserted the first infobox to a classical music biography, we need to go to a forum that is better watched than Klemperer. You and I are getting older, - may I remind you that, before I even joined Wikipedia? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:16, 6 October 2014 (UTC)


 * No, Gerda, you may not remind me of something I did 5 years ago, before the consensus on infoboxes for classical musicians had developed to its current state. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  10:19, 6 October 2014 (UTC)


 * How can I undo the reminder? Mea culpa ... - You mean the 2010 state? - I won't waste time to find out the current state, but feel that it might be different ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:29, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

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Moving saint day articles
Hello Jack, I was wondering if you could point me to the discussion that establishes consensus to move all the saint day articles around to a specific format. Thanks. Gentgeen (talk) 07:29, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm not aware of any such discussion. I took it upon myself to be bold, because consistency always trumps the alternative.  No?  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  07:30, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Consistency with what? Only the English (and Australian?) have no dot behind the "St", Americans (and Germans) have one. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:42, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * ps: see? (infobox) - I guess it needs a discussion, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:45, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Consistency with each other. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  07:48, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * You mean, On St John's Day we celebrate St. John? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:55, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * No, I mean the titles should be either all Saint or all St, and if the latter, they should be either all with or all without the full stop. Then there's the question of internal consistency.  I came across articles where the title was "Saint ___", but the subject was referred to in the article sometimes that way but sometimes as "St ___", and even sometimes as "St. ___".  We apply consistency when it comes to not having different varieties of English within the same article.  I was applying that same kind of argument to a bigger picture, but without the fuss. I was starting to get the titles in a consistent format, and I would have then moved to the next phase, making sure we're not celebrating Saint John on St John's Day etc.  But I have suspended activity pending a definitive consensus. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  18:36, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

I just looked for a naming convention or guideline for holidays or observances, and didn't find one. Without a consensus to move these hundreds of articles to a specific format, perhaps a discussion should be started, either at Wikipedia talk:Article titles, or at WikiProject Saints. I note that the wikiproject has naming conventions for the persons themselves, and for buildings named after them, but not one for their feast days. Gentgeen (talk) 07:57, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree. In the absence of a guideline, mass renamings (I only know of St Lucy's Day, but I see from the comments above that there's more) are not the way to go. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 13:56, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
 * See my comments to Gerda above. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  18:36, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

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Recommendations vs. opinions on the ref desks
Hi Jack,

In response to some of your recent comments on the ref desk: I know we have rules against requests for opinion and debate. I mostly follow them. But there are a few categories that might be considered opinion that I think we should give to askers. For example, I recently asked for a good resource for learning IPA. Someone else recently asked for good book on a topic. The answers I got were ultimately opinions, e.g. the respondents were giving resources that they thought were good. It would be silly to demand a citation to a reliable, third-party reference that says that original resource is good, wouldn't it? I may or may not like the suggestions I got, but a bad suggestion doesn't do me any harm.

On the question of naming a company, I have no interest in offering OP potential names, but figured it doesn't hurt (and might help) to give a reference on the topic. Did I break the rules by responding to a blatant request for opinion, or did I follow the rules because I gave a reference and no opinion? Obviously I see it as the former.

Anyway, with respect to the Iliad/Odyssey question, I agree that it was terse and confusing, and I have no idea why an experienced admin would not think to give a little more background, which could help us provide answers that were less opinion-based. I mostly gave references to WP articles that I thought were relevant, though I did state one opinion, while being very clear that it was only my own opinion. I don't see much harm in that, but I thought I'd explain how I see it. In short, sometimes I do think it's ok to give some light opinion (WP:OR, etc), as long as it is clearly flagged as such and is not the sole contribution the thread. Make sense? SemanticMantis (talk) 19:55, 23 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi, and thanks for the consideration. Rather than have separate conversations, maybe best to reply @ Wikipedia talk:Reference desk.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:05, 23 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Oops, you hadn't posted there when I had checked earlier today. Will paraphrase/comment there later. SemanticMantis (talk) 20:19, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

An OBOD Barnstar for you

 * I am honoured beyond my humble powers of expression. Thank you.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:39, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

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 * Billy Budd (opera)
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 * Both now fixed, although it was not I who added the first link. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  18:50, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Ton frère Ta sœur?



 * Mais non! Aussi, c'est non ma soeur.  Mais peut-être elle est une Aussie.  C'est tout.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:35, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

BNA access
Chris Troutman ( talk ) 02:48, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Your opinion is needed
Hi. Can you offer your opinion in this consensus discussion? I know you did this last month, but it wasn't a formal consensus discussion, but now it is. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 00:39, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your kind comments, and for the excellent Whistler quotation. With best wishes, DBaK (talk) 12:33, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

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Murder of Kylie Maybury
Can you take a look at Murder of Kylie Maybury?

Maybe you can help me expand it?

Paul Austin (talk) 17:45, 20 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I've cleaned it up a little at this stage. I'll see if I can find some more info.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:23, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Why is Kylie Maybury not a household name in Melbourne, like Karmein Chan and Sheree Beasley? Of course i know why - Beasley and Chan were from "nice" middle class backgrounds and their families had "good" public images. Maybury was working class, the child of a single mother who had had Kylie when she was 18 and they lived in a housing commission flat. Paul Austin (talk) 12:34, 21 November 2014 (UTC)


 * If you say so. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  12:56, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Re: The Like-Minded Persons' Club
Provisional Membership gratefully accepted.
 * Cheers, Alan.

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Request help with editing Andrew Hodges
Hi, I wonder if I could prevail upon your good offices for advice. How I should edit the page Andrew Hodges, whom I know? I am terrified of breaching any of the guidelines. He mentioned to me that there are a couple of things he would like changed, and I need an unbiased opinion as to unbiased-ness.

The first is straightforward: he is no longer Dean of Wadham College since October this year, reference (Martin Buraeu is now Dean). The reference in the article is out of date, too, and the one I just gave seems adequate.

Second, the wording about the film The Imitation Game which was made by Morten Tyldum could be (we think) improved: the book was not 'made into' a film (as the book still exists), the book 'is the inspiration for' the film. The american publisher's site for the book is at and uses the rubric: "Alan Turing: The Enigma: The book that inspired the film The Imitation Game". There were doubtless long meetings where this was thrashed out. Therefore I believe this could reasonably be improved in the direction I suggested, but obviously I cannot pretend to an unbiased position on this. Writing this request publicly is my attempt to shield Wikipedia from any accusations of my bias.

I did look at the BLP policy guidelines and the request for edits there, but that seemed to be set up for violations and defamations, rather than these more minor points. Would you advise me as to how I should proceed? TrohannyEoin (talk) 22:51, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Still looking for that word
I like how you refer to Bugs' utterances as "interventions" (Seinfeld would approve). The rest of us are happy with "contributions". :) --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  18:54, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Contibution's fine but more general than what I was trying to say. I was looking for another word. Something like 'statement'. What do you call the successive utterances of people taking part in a debate? 'Motion', 'proposition', etc. on the other hand would be too specific. Contact Basemetal   here  19:33, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Transactions? --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:42, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
 * In televised debates the moderator would lay down rules such as "Each of you will get 10 mins for their ......" What's that word? Contact Basemetal   here  14:08, 2 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Participation? --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  08:12, 3 December 2014 (UTC)