User talk:John Hill/Archive04/January 2008 – December 2008

Continued discussion of previous archived page
Hi John. I've just created a Tibetan Buddhism template. Could you help develop it? It is to replace the too generalized Buddhism template on Tibetan articles ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦     Talk? 20:08, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the main Buddhism template is too generic for all of the Tibetan buddhist articles such as lamas etc. It is a very a large subject in its own right but its on the right track -this should replace the main Buddhism template I think for Tibet. Perhaps you could add all of the key belief systems etc. pLease can you respond to me on this one ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦     Talk? 20:26, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Yep I agree with you on all points. I think it is important we keep the burgundy to reflect the robes but I'm not certain how to change the colour to black and keep it wikilinked. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦     Talk? 10:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

As for changing the photo? What could be more suitable than having an image of the founder of Tibetan Buddhism? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦     Talk? 10:25, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm confused John you're sending me mixed messages. I thought you said while it was great that I used your image you said somebody would come along and replace it. I thought it was fine anyway. I only changed it because I didn't see the point of somebody else coming along and replacing it. I'll restore it -just a little curious to think why you thought somebody might change it later. Theres no point in restoring it if somebody else is going to revert it but I;ll do it ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦      Talk? 12:04, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes incidentally I was thinking about Bon yesterday and what a contradiction it was that it pre dated buddhism in Tibet yet has been labelled by His Holiness as a fifth school. Ideally that needs a bit more coverage. Notice I didn't add the Tibetan Buddhism template to it as it seemed a bit contradictory but it may as well be there. Luckily I managed to get hold of a cheap and rather basic guide to Cambodia - there should be some basics I can add to the articles which are seriously lacking at present. I wish I could gain access to a library in this area and try to find some books on Tibet, Burma and Cambodia =both Barry and Cardiff library have temporarily closed! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦     <font size="-4"><font color="Black">Talk? 12:24, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey no probs!! I preferred your image too but when you said something about somebody will change it I was wondering why. I've lightened the burgundy. The only way I can get the text black is to unwiki the links in the headers. Man I've been busy today check it out!!! Best regards buddy <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">♦ Sir Blofeld ♦      <font size="-4"><font color="Black">Talk? 22:06, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

That Japanese magazine sounds like fun and quite quirky! - perhaps you could post a copy through a vent in my Japanese volcano ! lol! regards <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">♦ Sir Blofeld ♦      <font size="-4"><font color="Black">Talk? 22:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

What on earth is Redtigerxyz talking about? I thought the maroon and gold colours were about as evocative of Tibetan Buddhism as we can get. As for bright colours -what about all of those beautiful prayer flags, thangkas and sand mandalas!!! lol <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦      <font size="-4"><font color="Black">Talk? 10:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Flickr image block
Hi John. Can you do a test for me and see if you can save any image from flickr into your pictures. I've managed to negotiate with somebody on flickr to upload many images on cambodia and laos and when I save them they are coming out as blanks. It looks like flickr as programmed some kind of protection on their images to prevent anybody lifting them from the site using "spaceball". Could you see if this happens to you also. Thanks <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦      <font size="-4"><font color="Black">Talk? 13:12, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Possible contributions to Australian Aboriginal mythology!??
I noted a few of your edits, every now and then, as the Australian Aboriginal mythology article was 'upgraded' and 'expanded' - thanks for those, plus your initial encouragement!

Included within your edits have been references to Cook/Cooktown/Gugu Yimidhir and other relevant (and interesting!) materials that I do not myself have immediate access to! I was wondering :

a) from within your Cook/Cooktown/Gugu Yimidhir material - whether you have references documenting local Cooktown/Gugu Yimidhir stories/myths about their encounters with EMS Endeavour crew (including Cook?).. and, if so, whether some version of this/these stories/myths might be added to the section on Captain Cook?

b) from within your other Aboriginal mythological materials (eg Havilan and Hart on Barrow point?) - whether you might be able to include some version and/or associated commentary on that mythology under the appropriate language name .. within the individual groups name .. to start putting some balance to the current anthropological literary favourites in the Northern Territory (I'm about to do one for the Aranda)??

I thought I'd ask! Cheers Bruceanthro (talk) 13:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Great!! Please enjoy your Atherton tableland travels ... and I will take you up on your agreement/offer to contribute by posting a reminder here, sometime in Feb. All the best! Bruceanthro (talk) 15:01, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

The references for Tibet.
You had a few justified removals, but then you accidentally started to review the Afghanistan list thinking it is the Tibet list (its an easy mistake to make, no worries; I've made it before), so I reverted a couple edits of yours. Thegreyanomaly (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 05:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Yecheng/Kargilik County
I'd like to see your thoughts on the proposed merge of Yecheng to Kargilik County. Please give your comments on Talk:Kargilik County. Thanks. --Nlu (talk) 17:55, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Tibet history enhancements
Hi John, I appreciate your enhancements to my additions in Tibet's history. It looks like you have even more historical details you could (and should) add. A while back I got real frustrated at the Tibet and History of Tibet articles because they were written almost as bad as the Korean history articles. It's next to impossible to get an idea of a nation's borders at most points of its history by reading some of the Wiki-history articles, so I'm applying some of the info I gather while creating my maps to the articles. Thomas Lessman (talk) 22:30, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Infoboxes
HI John. Just to let you know I've got the parameters fixed inti Infobox Monarch for Tibetan/Chinese. Those blues boxes now should be intergrated into the main one. See Songsten Gampo. Could you help decluttering pages you know of by intergrating the chinese boxes into the monarch main plate? Thanks <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">♦ Sir Blofeld ♦      <font size="-4"><font color="Black">Talk? 17:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

OK no probs take care - I just saw your message but you missed my talk page and left a message on my user page!!! I rarely look there! <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">♦ Sir Blofeld ♦     <font size="-4"><font color="Black">Talk? 15:08, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

LOL!! I thought it was amusing, I've done that before too. Hey happy 65th!! I thought you were 63 turning 64. I must have missed a year!!! Take care of yourself and hope to see you editing in a few weeks. Best regards <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">♦ Sir Blofeld ♦      <font size="-4"><font color="Black">Talk? 12:18, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back friend. Hope you had a great time and didn't swim in too much magma! <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">♦ Sir Blofeld ♦     <font size="-4"><font color="Black">$1,000,000? 11:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

HI friend. See Tenzin Gyatso. Gradually we can get shot of those hounding blue translation boxes and can add it to the main one. Looks much better doesn't it. If you could help merge boxes for many of the lamas this would be great -I'm afraid I'm a bit busy adding french towns at present. Have you noticed how the edit count has jumped from 2,225,000 to 2.236,000 in a two or three days? Well thats me! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 22:30, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey. We now have an image for every reincarnation of the Karmapa. Beautiful images I uploaded about 12 of them. I'll aim to continue with adding those articles on Tibetan art some time too  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 01:52, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Losar
John Hill, Losar is currenting happening, how may I ensure that it is flagged as a current event? Is there a News Wiki article that this Wikipedia article can interwiki? How may I progress this? Is there anything else you recommend?

Blessings in the mindstream

B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 06:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi John
Hi John. I am again being attacked by User:Elonka and some of her supporters in relation to the Franco-Mongol alliance article: Requests_for_arbitration/Franco-Mongol_alliance/Workshop. I don't really want to draw you into this, but your knowledge of the workings of Central Asian history makes you a reference on these subjects. Please feel free to share your opinions. Best regards. PHG (talk) 02:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Maralinga, South Australia
Thanks for picking the minimisation up at Maralinga, South Australia Paul foord (talk) 01:01, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your very prompt support for my edits. I could not believe how the whole mess had been whitewashed! I worked for many years in Central Australia and have had the privilege of hearing first-hand many horrific stories from survivors of the Maralinga tests - both Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal, and this rewrite of history really angered me. All best wishes. John Hill (talk) 02:34, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Kabul
Hi John, I know this is a while ago, but I've just come across this edit of yours at Kabul. The summary you gave was "a few additions", but the edit consisted for the most part of replacing the BC notation, used from the outset of the article, with the BCE notation. I think "a few additions" is stretching it somewhat, unless you meant the addition of 'E' to 'BC'. As I'm sure you know, changes such as the one you made don't comply with the Wikipedia policy, especially when the edit summary doesn't explain what's being done. Can you recall why this change was made? I'm thinking of reverting it, but would welocme your comments first. Thanks, 82.20.19.200 (talk) 00:20, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Reply on use of Common Era
Hi! Well, yes, this was indeed a long time ago - October 2005 as I discovered on serching - an edit I made early in my "Wiki career". I made 4 changes of era names in that edit (plus added a phrase of text) from the Christian era nomenclature, ie. I changed BC = "before Christ" and AD = Anno domini = "Year of our Lord" to the newer, but neutral and more widely acceptable BCE ("Before Common Era") and CE ("Common Era") for several reasons:

1. It does not seem seem appropriate to use a Christian-based era to date events in a country which is almost totally Muslim. This is rather similar to dating events in, for example, Roman history in the Hegira era - 622 CE (or AD) marking the first year of the Islamic calendar, or 1 AH (anno higirae)]. It would be surprising to me if Christian Italians (and probably other Christian groups) did not complain if someone started doing this.

2. Both Muslim and Jewish scholars have complained to me about the use of the "Christian Era" for dating, and preferred the use of the "Common Era" and several suggested I use it in my writings.

3. The use of the "Christian Era" was introduced around the world by European imperial powers who made a point of ignoring local eras (such as the Saka Era in India or the Hejira Era in Muslim countries) and substituting their own era and system of dating on their colonies and in the scientific and historical literature.

4. The so-called "Christian Era" is misleading anyway as almost all scholars - including Christian ones - now agree that it is most unlikely that Jesus was born in 1 AD. But, because the "Common Era" has been decided to start in 1 AD, and this is just a convenient decision, it does not imply any particlar accuracy in relation to historical events and does not carry with it religious or imperialistic overtones.

I hope that explains my decision. I don't, myself, feel very strongly about the use of one over the other (and it is very easy to get used to both - as they are so similar), but I do think it best not to unnecessarily annoy people of other cultures and faiths. Cheers, John Hill (talk) 08:26, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi John, Thanks for getting back to me. Under the circumstances it would not now seem appropriate to change the long-standing edits on Kabul. I would, however, make a couple of points; Kabul is not a religious topic, it is a geographic topic. Secondly, when looking at issues such as these, it is the readership that matters rather than the subject. The English Wikipedia is aimed at English-speaking people, who, by-and-large are much more familiar with AD/BC than CE/BCE, and don't, so far as I am aware, generally object to its use. If there is a Hebrew Wikipedia then I would expect dates to be given using the Hebrew calendar, even for Christian-related events and subjects. I find it strange that Muslim and Jewish scholars should object to AD/BC when they have their own calendar that they are free to use. Regards, Chris. 82.20.19.200 (talk) 11:43, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Chris! Kabul is certainly not a religious topic per se, but it is the capital of a strongly Muslim country. I see BC and AD as inaccurate anomalies - although I agree they are widely recognised. However, it's up to you - either system is fine with me though the use of CE and BCE seem to be more widely used by scholars these days - particularly by non-Christian scholars. Anyway, whatever you do, I suggest having a look at the Wikipedia article on the Common Era and consider why the use of the so-called "Christian Era" may be offensive to some. Best wishes, John Hill (talk) 03:19, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

From Jim Archer
Are you the John Hill who attended Lakefoeld School with me. Email is vientianepigeon at yahoo.com I cannot use the symbol for at on this computer in Perú. Doesn't work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.41.192.214 (talk) 22:44, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Looking for Wikipedians for a User Study
Hello. I am a graduate student in the Department of Computer Science and Engineering at the University of Minnesota. We are conducting research on ways to engage content experts on Wikipedia. Previously, Wikipedia started the Adopt-a-User program to allow new users to get to know seasoned Wikipedia editors. We are interested in learning more about how this type of relationship works. Based on your editing record on Wikipedia, we thought you might be interested in participating. If chosen to participate, you will be compensated for your time. We estimate that most participants will spend an hour (over two weeks on your own time and from your own computer) on the study. To learn more or to sign up contact katpa@cs.umn.edu or User:KatherinePanciera/WPMentoring. Thanks. KatherinePanciera (talk) 02:15, 2 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the interest. We are actually not expecting you to be a content expert, but rather to work with some content experts in your role as an active Wikipedian. We'd love to have you in the study if you are still interested. If you send me an email, I'll give you more specific information. katpa@cs.umn.edu Thanks again. KatherinePanciera (talk) 03:50, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Please add Tibetan people article to your watchlist.
Hi John!

I think you should add this article to your watchlist. Please see its History and you will know how I called you!

Thank you! Good luck!

Angelo De La Paz (talk) 15:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Ethnic Origins of Foreign Figurines found in Tang Tombs
Dear John:

We are trying to obtain images from the home areas of “foreigners” who were depicted in Tang tombs with the hope that they can be matched up with the figurines found.

Any suggestions as to where we could find appropriate paintings/murals/coins etc. would be very much appreciated. I am not sure if this is an appropriate way to contact you but I could not find your email address on any piece you had written.

Ever

Michael S. Sanders

Director of Expeditions and Research

Ancient Cultures Research Foundation

Mike.Sanders@AncientCultures.net —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.27.157.2 (talk) 20:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Image:Guru Rinpoche - Padmasambhava statue.jpg
A tag has been placed on Image:Guru Rinpoche - Padmasambhava statue.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section I8 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is available as a bit-for-bit identical copy on the Wikimedia Commons under the same name, or all references to the image on Wikipedia have been updated to point to the title used at Commons.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on  explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Sdrtirs (talk) 04:10, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I am happy for the deletion as it seems, in fact, that I (or someone else) have uploaded the same image to both the Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons by mistake. I just hope the image will continue to show up on all the pages and boxes in which it is now found. Thanks, John Hill (talk) 07:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If the image stays in Wikimedia Commons for being for free use, it can be seen in ALL Wikipedia such en.wikipedia.org, pt.wikipedia.org, es.wikipedia.org, it.wikipedia.org and all others. And if it remains as the same name, as I did to this, it isn't need to change the articles to all images remains in the same articles that were before deletion on wikipedia. So don't worry! --Sdrtirs (talk) 15:31, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

History of Tibet
Gimme danger is looking for editors to improve the History of Tibet to Good Article status. Since you've contributed to the article in the past, I hope you'll be able to participate. (talk) 00:52, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

How are you these days?. I don't hear much from you anymore!! Howz things? Have you been away? <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦     <font size="-4"><font color="Black">"Visit Mr. Bigglesworth?" 09:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Ernst! So good to hear from you again! Yes, I have been away for short periods a couple of times and have also been so busy working on my books and articles and just dealing with everyday chores that I have only spent minimal time on the Wikipedia recently. Mostly I have just been trying to keep an eye on a multitude of articles I am particularly interested in and reversing vandalism and making minor editing changes where appropriate.
 * I think I am busier now that I am "retired" than I was when I was working! I have been meaning to write to you but just haven't got around to it. I notice that you have been contributing mightily to a vast array of extremely diverse and esoteric subjects as always. Good on yer!!!!! It seems like you are really enjoying yourself. (Please let me know when Goldfinger has completed the body painting in gold - and send me a photo please!).
 * Thanks for the info on the History of Tibet article. I will certainly have a close look at it over the next few days and see if I can make any improvements or additions. BTW - I will be away from the middle of next month until the middle of July (H.K., Canada, and the U.S. of A.) and may be unable to make much in the way of contributions during that time. All best wishes. May the magma keep you warm!

John Hill (talk) 07:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi John
Hi John, Citations have been put in that most western scholars do NOT view Jats as Aryans. Finally someone has started to put this article right by highlighting that most western scholars for the last 200 years view Jats as Indo-Scythians NOT as User:LRBurdak has been pushing POV as Jats being Aryan.--Trv93 (talk) 08:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi John, thanks for your kind note. There has been pushing of POV by User:LRBurdak to whitewash that most academics view Jats as Indo-Scythians. The reason why I noticed this criminal distortion by User:LRBurdak (making Jats Aryan) is because I am a professional anthropologist. A lot of the Aryan sections on that article are rubbish political POV by User:LRBurdak. The general held consesus in anthropologist circles is Jats originate from the Oxus River Valley in Central Asia and DNA tests are been able to strongly indicate this. I've changed the sentence to "some scholars" but the truth is, this is playing right into User:LRBurdak hands by making his "Aryan theory" seem a common held view, which is totally wrong. Most of the Aryans section should not be there, it is misleading the reader, it is not the acedmemic consensus. Please remove or reduce most of the Aryan section, as a professional I tell you it is wrong. Best regards.--Trv93 (talk) 08:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

third dalai lama - qinghai vs. hohhot
Hi, it seems you added some info about the meeting between altan khan and the (would-be) third dalai lama to some articles, including the ones on Altan Khan and the 3rd Dalai Lama themselves. I am pretty sure all sources I have read so far locate this meeting near lake Qinghai. The Mongolian name of the lake (and the whole region) is Köke naγur (Blue lake), so I guess it is possible to confuse it with Hohhot (Köke qota, Blue town). Would it be conceivable that you or your source are mixing up these two places? Yaan (talk) 11:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Yaan! Thank you for your note. According to Thomas Laird, this meeting did take place at Altan Khan's new capital, Köke qota, 'Blue Town' or modern Hohhot. Here is what he says: "When Altan Khan and the Third Dalai Lama met, the monk gave a long Buddhist teaching to a large crowd of Mongols. They gathered at Koko Khotan, Altan's capital, which is now Hohhot, capital of the Chinese province of Inner Mongolia. The site of these teachings became blessed ground, and Altan financed the construction of Mongolia's first monastery, Thegchen Chonkhor, there." Laird, Thomas (2006). The Story of Tibet: Conversations with the Dalai Lama, p. 144. Grove Press, N.Y. ISBN 978-0-8021-827-1.


 * The other sources I have available here are not so detailed or specific - but do back up Laird's account. For example, Giuseppe Tucci, in his book, The Religions of Tibet (1980), p. 252, says about the 3rd Dalai Lama that, ". . . in 1578 he visits Mongolia, where Altan Khan confers on him the title of Dalai Lama; he dies in Mongolia during a second visit." See also: Tibet by Thubten Jigme Norbu and Colin M. Turnbull (1968), pp. 218-220 and Tibetan Civilization by R.A. Stein (1972), pp. 81-82. Best wishes, John Hill (talk) 07:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Additional note: I have just discovered another reference on this subject and thought I should add it here to hopefully end further speculation on this subject: "Sonam Gyatso was a brilliant scholar and a zealous missionary. He visited Mongolia, and in 1578 converted the leading prince, Altan Khan of the Tumed, together with large numbers of his followers. The Khan gave Sonam Gyatso the title of Talé (Dalai), meaning 'Ocean', and that title was later applied retrospectively to his two predecessors." Tibet & Its History, 2nd Edition (1984) by Hugh E. Richardson, pp. 40-41. John Hill (talk) 08:39, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * replied at talk: 3rd Dalai Lama. Regards, Yaan (talk) 16:44, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

While the most implausible theory can stay in wikipedia, why not the one makes more sense?
Mr.Hills, I saw your translation of chinese documents, it is a great work!. But I am strongly disagree your position on your views on Tocharian and Uighurs. In this whole article, you and others keep talking about  Tocharians without any mention to  Uighurs. Apparently you also supporting the extreme chinese view that "uighur expelled" the tocharians. Where did you find that evidence? do you have any slightest proof?. As you and other chinese scholars translated, the chinese monk Xuanzang saw Kashgarians with green eyes. The mongolians called Uyghurs "color eyed people". 11th century's Uyghur turkolog Kashgarli Mehmud called kashgar the  city of Turan, and wrote kashgar is the ancient homeland of his forefathers. He never mentioned any mass genocide or expelling you referring to. Today you still can see mostly caucasion looking kashgarian and khotenese Uyghurs (see these extreme examples with so called white features: http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4778/2314836332e36b2ac7b8bpv5.jpg, http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3121/22430775076281cb598bcg6.jpg). Do you honestly believe these people came from Mongolia??. For me and so many scholars, Uighur population is the mixture of tocharian and turkic (hun) people make more sense and more plausable. While most implausible theory with no evidence can stay in wikipedia, why not the one makes more sense. Thanks FACT NEEDED (talk) 04:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I am puzzled
Dear "FACT NEEDED": I am very puzzled by your comments above. There appears to be some misunderstanding. First of all, I am not sure which article you are talking about. As far as I can remember, I have never said that Uighurs expelled "Tocharians" from anywhere. If you are talking about my draft translations of the 'Chapter on the Western Regions' from the Hou Hanshu and the Weilüe which can be found on the Silk Road Seattle website hosted by the University of Washington, these deal with events which happened well before the first historical reference to the Uighurs during the Wei dynasty (386-534 CE). Please let me know what I have written that upsets you and where you found it so I can try to answer any criticisms you may have. Many thanks, John Hill (talk) 09:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

erdene zuu not the first monastery in mongolia?
Hi, I think you added that "(wrongly)" to the claim that erdene zuu was the first monastery in mongolia. is this because there were other monasteries in inner mongolia before, or because there were other monasteries in outer mongolia before? discussion is at Talk: History of Tibet. Regards, Yaan (talk) 17:58, 30 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, Yaan! I have just adjusted the article on the History of Tibet and left a discussion on the Talk Page about the confusion. The earlier monastery was, of course, built by Altan Khan at his capital in what is now Hohhot, Inner Mongolia (which has now been absorbed by China). Since the state of modern Mongolia does not include this region it is technically correct to say that Erdene Zuu was the first monastery built in Mongolia - though, of course, the separation of Mongolia and Inner Mongolia is really a modern event. Anyway, if you have any further questions (or are not happy with the adjustments I have made to the History of Tibet article), please let me know. Best wishes, John Hill (talk) 23:02, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Age of minority/majority
On Category:Child rulers from Asia - d'oh! Thanks for picking up that slip!--Iacobus (talk) 05:18, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * No worries in the least - I make similar slips all the time. All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 05:29, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Peripeties
Dear John, thank you for your very kind words. Actually lately I was mostly adding to Turkology. From WordWeb []: "peripety, peripeties, peripetias, peripeteias" A sudden and unexpected change of fortune or reverse of circumstances (especially in a literary work). What they should also have said is that this change of fortune has negative connotations. If you suddenly won a lottery, it is not a peripety, but if you have won, and your ticket was stolen, then it is. Also, []. WordWeb suggests "surprise" as a synonym, but it does not have a right connotation, and I could not find a simpler word to properly phrase a sentence. Any improvement would be very welcome. Until end of May I am in Latin America, with somewhat problematic access sometimes. Be aware that your words are a great joy for me. --Barefact (talk) 06:09, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Norm! And thanks for your very kind words too! And also for "peripities" - a valid and interesting English word I had never come across before. It is always a treat to learn a new word but I think that, because it is so uncommon, it should really be replaced in the Wusun article as many readers will have difficulty understanding the passage.


 * The quote as it now stand is: "Their later fate is connected with the Turkic Kaganates and peripeties that fell on the Middle Asia and specifically Jeti-su area." May I suggest something like: "Their later fate is connected with the Turkic Kaganates and the sudden reversals of fortune that fell on Central Asia and, specifically, the Jeti-su area."? It is just a suggestion - I leave it up to you.


 * Have fun on your trip. I send you my very best wishes, John Hill (talk) 06:59, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I had exactly the same gut feeling that the phrase used an "uncommon" word, but could not find a good replacement. I vote for with both hands. Please revise, and if you couls just cursory attend to my suggestion to add some meat to Place of origin of the Yuezhi in Yuezhi - Talk:Yuezhi, I hope that even the narrative without a map would add to the contents of the article. Thank you again --Barefact (talk) 07:40, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Khotan
I figured out the Khotan issue. See here. Good Ol’factory (talk) 07:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

It is a mistake
Dear Mr. Hill, I am so sorry, I concede for my mistake. My comment was about tocharians. Actually that statement was written by somebody else. The view I was talking about were these: "According to a controversial theory, early invasions by Turkic speakers may have pushed Tocharian speakers out of the Tarim Basin and into ancient Soghdian where they became assimilated in the population". This states implicitly imply Uyghur's Turkic ancestors expelled Tocharians.

Another point I want to argue was, Whatever the mixture, Uyghurs should be considered decendents of ancient original indo-europian inhabitants of Tarim Basin. Mixing with Turks and Mongolians would not make them irrelevant to their ancestors. We can find so many evidences(culturally, historicly and geniticly) that modern Uyghurs are related to original indo-europian inhabitants which includes tocharians. Unfortunately this whole "tocharian" article only mentions Uyghur once.

Once again, I am extremely sorry for the confusion. By the way, I learned a lot from your translation!!. Great work!! FACT NEEDED (talk) 04:21, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the clarification
Dear FACT NEEDED: Thank you so much for your apology - it is totally accepted. I know only too well from my own experience how easy it is to make such mistakes in the Wikipedia. As we say here in Australia, "no worries, mate!"

Also, thanks so much for you praise of my work - I am glad you found it useful - even though the early drafts available on the Silk Road Seattle site are now well out of date and contain (I am ashamed to say) a number of errors - some serious. Most of them I have now corrected - but I am still working on it constantly. I hope to make a much revised, corrected and updated version available later this year. However, in the meantime, if you have any queries, please do not hesitate to write to me. All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 04:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC) PS. I agree with you that modern Uighurs are almost certainly descended from a variety of early peoples including the early, basically Caucasoid, tribes of the region.


 * Dear Mr. Hill, Thanks for the understanding!. Your translation is a great accomplishment indeed!. All the best!! FACT NEEDED (talk) 04:56, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Homage
Great job on the "History of Tibet" now please lock it down....Ubuibiok (talk) 23:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Tibet
Whats happened to this article?. The intro was appallingly short. No mention of the Dalai Lama?, Buddhism?, Lhasa? nothing. Many of the sections became short and snappy. It really was a shame. It just looked like somebody came along and just deleted entire chunks of text with paying any attention to copy editing it. We had gone from a very informative although too long history section to something which was barely of use. Sure the history article should contain the vast majority of the info but you still need a half decent history in the article rather than three lines. I restored it in part and seriously cut down the histiry section so it isn't barely a few lines or 30kb long either but is adequate and an outline that is very useful. I'll give it some more editing over the next few days. It still needs a huge amuont of work so that it is done properly and doesn't affect the quality of the article. I have tried to remove sections which are POV and to address neutrality but I care too much about it to find the version I found earlier as an acceptable improvement. I aopolgise if I have readded anything which shouldn't be there but I believe the article is a lot better than it was earlier. It is such an incredibly difficult article to control and write. I'll be keeing a very vclose wathc on this from now on as I won't see it eroded like that .It echoes what happened to the Che Guevara article which got the same treatment. But this of course happens when an article gets so much traffic and when it is over edited. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 18:09, 10 May 2008 (UTC)  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 18:04, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

John if I've cut anything out that you;ve worked on it wasn't intentional. I gave it a quick summarization but if I cut anything out you added that was important we should discuss how to intergrate it into the article again. Could you discuss with me some time how the article can progress from here? I only have the best possible intentions. Look forward to hearing from you  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 21:00, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Tibet history edits
Hi Ernst! I am so sorry that I have upset you with my edits on Tibet. I knew this was going to be a most difficult (and controversial) job and that I had very limited time to do it in. I was so upset that having the two articles each with very large sections on Tibetan history was leading to contradictions, confusion and far too much duplication leading to an inability for readers to follow all the additions and POV aguments which were being added to each. It really was a confusing jumble and, I judged, made it impossible for ordinary readers to get any sort of coherent picture of Tibetan history. It seemed important to me to have the vast bulk of the historical discussions available in one place where the contradictions and unnecessarily long-winded duplications would become more immediately obvious and, therefore, more easily corrected.

One of the main problems has been that it all has taken much longer than I thought - so I hadn't got back to rewriting a much more concise history section before others started working on it.

When I first copied out the history section alone of the Tibet article it filled 15 full A4 pages in Word and was a tangled mess of some excellent material mixed up with numerous contradictions and repetitions and poorly referenced POVs. I tried unsuccessfully to straighten it out and then decided the only thing to do was to remove it entirely and try my best to merge it into the History of Tibet article before coming back to write an historical précis for the main Tibet page (something I never got back to do).

I am very sorry it has not worked out as well as I had hoped and now I have to ask others to help get both articles back up to speed again. I hope, though, that the exercise has not been totally in vain. It should, at least, be easier now to see what needs to be done. I hope so.

BTW I haven't (recently anyway) edited any other sections of the Tibet article - so I'm not responsible for the state of the Intro or other sections. I agree they need a lot more work. Apologies for all the hassles. Best wishes, John Hill (talk) 22:55, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Re:Thanks for your work on the history section of Tibet article
You're very welcome John, but it seems that our edits, which made the introduction and history sections short/simplified, are not quite widely accepted.

- MainBody (talk) 08:29, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry if I seemed like i was complaining at yourself. Not at all but just a little shocked at how it had changed and this is clear in my immediate reaction above. I am the biggest fan of your work on central asian history and have the greatest of respect for you personally -you know this. Naturally the history section needed cutting down a great deal but I strongly felt the intro and history sections had been done a little too much. For me the history section should outline the history in a summary and cover the main points -this for me would be from gampo to present but summarizing the main events etc. Obviously any real detail should be in the seperate history articles (or which you;ve done a remarkabke job). I deeply apologise if you or MainBody feel I've discarded any efforts you have made to genuinely improve. If I have put anything back in problematic please please either of you discuss it so we can improve it. I;ve tried to do it in a way that it is still a interesting summary and read but isn't 30kb like it used to be. How are you mate anyway? Best wishes ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 09:34, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with you. The most important thing is that the history section is completely balanced and it flows in an informative section which highlights the most important events in its history but isn't too long and POV. But without a doubt it needs a great deal of work as writing a summary of a huge history isn't an easy task to say the least. WHat I did is try to filter out what I didn't think was important for the main article and give it the bones to work around it and come up with the goods between us all. SOme of it may not be focused in places particularly modern history but it should all completely flow, be reliably referenced and neutrally balanced. What is very important however is that it has the ability to summarize the main points in its history which is very informative and develops an understanding but is done so in the most concise way possible.Best regards <font style="color:#fef;background:navy;">♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦     <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White Cat 10:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Apologies Re. Tibet History
Dear MainBody and Blofeld of Spectre: Thank you both for your concern - not only for the articles but for me. I really must apologise to both of you for causing all this fuss and giving you both extra work and headaches. I have just written a letter on Blofeld of Spectre's Talk Page which gives my reasons for what I have done and thoughts about where we can go from here - so, to avoid having to repeat it all - I will just paste in the letter here:


 * Hi buddy! Good to hear from you - and sorry I have caused you all this angst! There is certainly no need for you to apologise! This whole fuss is really my fault. I was reading the Tibet article the other day and was horrified by the size of the section on Tibetan history and the jumble and confusion and POV in it. I thought that, especially with the focus on Tibet-China relations at the moment it was really urgent to get something more coherent and accurate together in one place. I thought I could do it in the few days left before my big trip - but probably overestimated my own capabilities and hadn't counted on the stream of unannounced visitors coming to wish us a good trip (and wanting to stay for a couple of hours drinking coffee and chatting).


 * I really did mean to get back to writing a shorter history on the Tibet page but I was too slow off the mark and I should have decorated the site with big Under Construction warning signs and also I should have realised you would have been right on the ball as usual and warned you personally.


 * Anyway, from this point on - I think it should be much easier to straighten everything out. The historical notes you have added to the Tibet article are a good start - and I am grateful you have restored some of the photos.


 * My only suggestions are that we should now try make it as brief and punchy as possible without losing the basic flow of the history. I, for example, would like to see a bit more on the ancient kings and the establishment of the Dharma and the early Empire while separating out some of less critical material in the more recent history.


 * I will try to do what I can while on this trip - but it may not be much, unfortunately - and now is when large numbers of people are likely to be checking the Wikipedia for information on Tibet. Also, of course, all the material in the History of Tibet article needs to be rechecked and tidied up. Sorry to leave you such a headache! I send you my apologies once again and all best wishes and thanks for your concern and hard work. John Hill (talk) 10:39, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * PS Do have a look at the long quote I have given in the History of Tibet article from the 821/2 Treaty between China and Tibet. If only something similar could be worked out again now!
 * PSS Thanks, Ernst for your welcome note above which you have just inserted before I managed to get this completed! You are just too quick for me! ;^)

Thanks again to both of you for your hard work and concern. I do think getting this right is really very important and there is a real urgency to getting it done now - I just wish I had more time and energy to work on it myself - so I am having to dump most of the responsibility on you and other well-intentioned people. Cheers, and best wishes with it all. John Hill (talk) 10:39, 11 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Your're quite the gentleman John thanks. What I would propose that we do is plan it first between us either on the Tibet talk page or the WIkiProject talk page. Create a bullet pointed list of what major events should be included in the section and then attempt to write a punchy but very informative history summary around this  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 12:17, 11 May 2008 (UTC).


 * Good idea! I started trying to edit a bit tonight but had to give up a while ago. I think your idea is better. Perhaps if we all tried to do a bullet list and then compared them it would help. don't know when I am going to be able to do it - but will certainly try. If not, I should be at least able to make comments on others' bullet lists. I think the Tibet Talk Page might be an excellent forum which would also probably attract others into the project. Cheers and thanks, John Hill (talk) 12:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks"> Hello John Hill/Archive04, The Bald One has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing! Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

It would be good if we could find a smiling buddha instead!!!! Tnanks -good work on the Tibet article too! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 11:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

If the Buddha doesn't bring a smile to yourface try reading the recently promoted Tibet during the Ming Dynasty. Our first WP:Tibet FA article! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 21:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Dalai Lama and images


Your're in Hong Kong? Great. I absolutely loved Hong Kong. Didn't go across to Macau though. I bet your having a great time!! Are you using your laptop or the hotel computer??

This evening I worked a bit on the Dalai Lama article and expanded it a fair bit I'm sure you'll notice a considerable change from when you last looked at it. My only wish is that I had the books and resources you have as I would have a go at developing it to FA standard. I tried to incorporate some of your reference work as much as I could. If only I had the books. I also found several new images of the Palden Lhamo and a stunning 17th century depiction of Jokhang from the Potala. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 21:06, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Keep me posted on your trip!!! Having a good time? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 12:00, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

John.. remember to post messages to User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE. The last five or so messages you sent were posted on my user page!!!! Best regards  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 09:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds great, keep me posted... My grandmother will be 103 years old this year. My granddad was 93 I think. If he was around today he would have been 108 in September! My father will be 60 this year, he is the youngest in a family of 7, his oldest sister being about 84...  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 09:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

History of Tibet Page
Bravo! I haven't been able to participate much this quarter, but I just wanted to say that it's already looking much better than it did in April. Thumbs up, and keep up the great work. Longchenpa (talk) 21:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes great work John. But on the main Tibet page I should try to condense it though as it is a bit too long at present. Its not easy summarizing an entire history is it!!! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 22:09, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello good friend John hope the travels are good. If you have a moment could you see about developing the Tashichoedzong article? I'd love to see a fuller artile on it. Perhaps you have something in a book when you return  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 23:59, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Parenti
Hi, you recently added another comment on Parenti at the Tibet Talk page. While I won't judge on Parenti's overall reliability when it comes to Tibet (does he at least speak Tibetan?) I think your point re. Khubilai's Grand Lama is mistaken. Parenti is probably referring to Drogön Chögyal Phagpa and not confusing anyone at all, i.e. IMO there is nothing wrong with the passage you quoted. Regards, Yaan (talk) 11:21, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Dear Yaan. First of all, I think that Parenti's confusion of Kublai Khan and Altun Khan and being some 300 years out with his dates are pretty major errors for someone billed as an "historian" and must bring his other claims into doubt, especially as he continues to leave this faulty article freely available on the internet and I can't find any attempt by him to correct his gross errors of fact.
 * Moreover, his article, "Friendly Feudalism (updated and expanded version, January 2007)" (see ) is full of extremely emotive language and is a blatant attack on a religion, culture and social system he clearly knows little about.
 * He has also reportedly claimed that the First Dalai Lama was installed by "the Chinese army" - seemingly unable to distinguish between the Mongols and the Chinese. Finally, to answer your question about his knowledge of Tibetan, he apparently knows neither Tibetan nor Chinese. (See ). So, yes, I believe I am quite justified in considering him a misleading and unreliable "authority" on matters Tibetan. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 15:37, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, I think you are misunderstanding me (and Parenti). It is you who is reading a confusion into Parenti's statement ("In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Grand Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops.").
 * Your interpretation that Parenti is trying to refer to the Dalai Lamas is, IMO, not imperative at all, even if his implied connection between Phagspa (who, if I understand correctly, was indeed appointed by Khubilai to some kind of overseer over all Tibetan(?) Buddhist monks) and the much later Dalai Lamas that are mentioned in the next sentence is left completely unsubstanciated.
 * I was not trying to make Parenti a reliable source, I just wanted to point out that this little factoid about Khubilai Khan and Phagspa (not the Dalai Lamas!), the one you have been using to criticize Parenti, is actually one that is not wrong, or at least not in the way you are describing.
 * Of course the following sentences are full of confusions, between Chinese and Mongols, or between the fourth and the sixth Dalai Lama ("Several centuries later, the Emperor of China sent an army into Tibet to support the Grand Lama, an ambitious 25-year-old man, who then gave himself the title of Dalai (Ocean) Lama, ruler of all Tibet. ... The Dalai Lama who succeeded him [the 3rd DL, Yaan] pursued a sybaritic life, enjoying many mistresses, partying with friends, and acting in other ways deemed unfitting for an incarnate deity.").
 * But the one statement you picked seems actually pretty well in line with reality. Regards, Yaan (talk) 16:05, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi again. Please, I do not want to get into a long argument about this. The fact that Parenti has confused Kublai Khan with Altun Khan and is some 3 centuries out on his dating may have been due to a genuine (but rather gross) mistake - but why has he not corrected it? This article has been around for some time now - it was apparently revised in January 2007 and could easily be revised again. Furthermore, the rest of his article and his other writings on Tibet do little to inspire confidence in his knowledge of the subject nor his objectivity. So why waste more time discussing such an unreliable source? If you disagree - that is fine - but I will continue to point out that he is an unreliable source if his work keeps being used as a reference on Tibetan historical matters unless he begins to seriously examine things factually, in context, and without unnecessarily emotive language. Yours, John Hill (talk) 16:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Again, I don't think Parenti is confusing Khubilai and Altan Khan. I agree that the rest of his article gives enough reason to question Parenti's authority, though.
 * Parenti's claim is "In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Grand Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops.". What we read in books, and, in lack thereof, sites like http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/tibet.html is in the vein of "Also Kublai Khan made Buddhism state religion in Mongolia and made Chogyal Phagpa the first religious and secular leader over Tibet.". IMO opinion both of these statements are easily reconcilable. Not that Parenti does not say "In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Dalai Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops.", but "In the thirteenth century, Emperor Kublai Khan created the first Grand Lama, who was to preside over all the other lamas as might a pope over his bishops.", and this "Grand Lama" can very easily be interpreted to refer to Phagspa.
 * In fact, in the following sentence, Parenti says the first Dalai Lama was apppointed several centuries later, with support of some "Chinese Army" - no matter how wrong this second sentence is, it seems clear to me that Parenti does not not confuse Khubilai and Altan Khan (though he clearly does confuse Mongols and Chinese), and really means to refer to Khubilai when he does. Yaan (talk) 19:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Yaan! Well, I will concede that, perhaps, Parenti has not confused Kubali Khan and Altan Khan (although he doesn't make it very clear as he uses his own "title" of "Grand Lama". He may well have meant to refer to Chogyal Phagpa. However, I am glad to hear you agree that in the rest of the article Parenti "gives enough reason" to question his authority. I have just reread Parenti's article (hopefully for the last time) and noticed yet another clanger - not only does he say that: "Several centuries later, the Emperor of China sent an army into Tibet to support the Grand Lama," he then goes on to say that he was "an ambitious 25-year-old man, who then gave himself the title of Dalai (Ocean) Lama, ruler of all Tibet." This is the first time I have ever heard of Sonam Gyatso giving himself any title - usually it is said that Altan Khan gave it to him, although the current Dalai Lama and others believe that it simply derived from a translation of his name Sonam Gyatso, as Gyatso means "Ocean" in Tibetan. Anyhow, I would like to close this discussion - but also to thank you for your persistence which has led me to examing the whole period in more detail. All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 00:21, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Armenian gravestones
Regarding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Armenian_gravestones._Lake_Van._.JPG

Does the location look familiar? http://www.virtualani.org/edremit/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.67.171.151 (talk) 01:52, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi! I couldn't find your User page - so I will answer here. Yes, indeed this is almost certainly the site of the graveyard where I took that photo back in 1973. The other photos brought back a flood of memories to me. I think it would be safe to label the photo as taken there - especially as it shows

Mt. Varag in the distance and I recognise some of the other fallen stones shown on the website. Thanks for your continued interest in this photo. Cheers and best wishes. John Hill (talk) 19:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks John. Sorry, I should have said that I didn't sign the message because I didn't want the website I mentioned to be identified with my log-in name. If you have any additional images taken at that location, it would be interesting to see them sometime. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.70.160.77 (talk) 21:24, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

issues with an IP on South Asia regarding Tibet
I am having issues with an IP regarding Tibet. They have been citing A History of Modern Tibet, 1913-1951 by Goldstein and one other book. I feel their citations somewhat ignore the pro-Tibetan information in favor of the anti-Tibetan/pro-PRC information. If you have read these books or have access to these books, please help. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 08:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, please kindly review what I added (and once partially removed/vandalised by user:Thegreyanomaly):

'''Tibet at times has governed itself as an independent state and at other times has had various levels of association with China, it became under Chinese control in the 18th century in spite of British efforts to seize possession of this Chinese protectorate at the beginning of the 20th century. '''

The content above is well-balanced NPOV and well-sourced, UserThegreyanomaly's removal seems more like vandalism or POV pushing.

Secondly, I would like to show you the vandalism-like behaviour by user:Thegreyanomaly:  Obviously, with no explanation User:Thegreyanomaly removed the Unreferenced tag that I added here. It's obviously vandalism.

Please let me know if there is any question. 219.73.86.234 (talk) 08:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Need help. I think user:Thegreyanomaly is kidnapping the article by senselessly revert all my copyediting, which I already elobrated on talk page.219.73.86.234 (talk) 03:17, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Reply
Dear all: The questions raised above about Tibet's level of independence from China, are very touchy and disputed subjects, as we all know. Unfortunately, I am still travelling (presently in Hong Kong) and will not have access to my books and notes until I return home at the end of next week and then find the time to get back to Wiki issues.

That said - it seems to me that the account by Goldstein as well as by Gernet, Foster, & Hartman are a bit disingenuous as they seem to imply that China retained control over Tibet throughout the 19th and 20th centuries. As I have pointed out previously (and given numerous references), China retained only a very weak claim to Tibet for much of this period and Tibet was, at times, effectively independent.

I suggest that we not get into another edit war on these issues as I don't believe they will ever be satisfactorily settled to the satisfaction of people on both sides of the argument. I think the best thing to do is to recognise that we have a real dispute here and try to represent both positions fairly.

Please let me know if I can be of further help and I will do my best to deal with any issues raised in the next couple of weeks. Best wishes to you all. John Hill (talk) 03:52, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

WELCOME BACK!!!
Hi John. I had just logged in when I got your message! How are you?? Wow that was some trip!!!! Hope you are feeling refreshed. My sister has also been away for months. The last year she was living in Silicon Valleyin California teaching. Then when she finished she went to Ecuador and the Galapagos. Then she flew back to San Francsico and then up to Alaska for two weeks. Then she came back to the UK. slept overnight and then flew off for an 8 week tour of South America the following day. She flew to Rio and has crossed Brazil to Iguacu. She has travelled through Paraguay and is now on her way up into Bolivia through places like Potosi up to Lake Titiaca. Then she will cross into Peru and up to Cuzco and Macchu Picchu. Then shes hitting the Peruvian coast and travelling all the way up to Lima before flying home and starting back teaching two days later in the UK!! Exhausting or what???

I haven't been editing Tibetan articles of late. Really I need the sort of books you have to make any real sort of progression. I have however added most of the main towns and villages in Bhutan and expanded articles like Paro, Bhutan, and created Deothang, Gedu etc. I have however also begun developing articles on Central America by translating from spanish wikipedia. The other day I expanded articles such as Altamirano, Chiapas and created and started most of the ones in Template:Chiapas and Apastepeque in El Salvador. Its a good way to improve my knowledge of the language and also to get some culturally important articles written into english. Some of them are fascinating, particularly countries such as Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador and Nicaragua. I also started Coffee production in Costa Rica as I thought a series on coffee production would be a novel one.

Great to have you back. Let me know if you can expand Tashichoedzong some time.

Very nicely done!! Now take care of yourself it sounds awful. Best wishes  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 16:20, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Sino-Tibetan Treaty of 821-2 CE
Hey. Thanks for the treaty text, I enjoyed it. I'm not sure it needs to be quoted in its entirety, though. Maybe the entire text could go in a separate article, and Tibet could briefly summarize. Any thoughts on what the "nephew" and "uncle" bit is about? Simply due to age of the kings at the time, or relative power of these two governments in Asia? Bertport (talk) 02:02, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Bertport; Glad you enjoyed the treaty text. It is by no means the whole text - but I do agree with you it is pretty long and perhaps could be summarised here. (I am just recovering at the moment from a nasty illness and don't feel up to attempting it - but by all means please feel free to do so if you wish. I just copied it from where I inserted it some time ago in the article on Batang.


 * The "nephew" and "uncle" bit is a politeness which referred to the marriages of the Tibetan emperors Songtsän Gampo and Mes-ag-tshoms to Chinese "princesses" and that, therefore, there was a familial relationship between the two royal families.


 * I have just added some later material (also from the additions I made to the Batang article some time ago) on more recent border demarcations between Tibet and China. I think it is particularly telling of the de facto independent status of Tibet at the beginning of the 20th century that they had 400 troops in 1904 on one border point with China "to protect the frontier". Any comments you might have would be more than welcome. Cheers, John Hill (talk) 02:25, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism
Hi John. Its odd but somebody vandalised my user page as if I was the Dalai Lama himself. Yet another PRC basher do you think? ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦      "Talk"? 17:31, 11 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Ernst! Sorry you are experiencing such nastiness. It is really impossible to say who is behind such attacks. On the surface it looks like it is a fervent supporter of the PRC - but nobody can tell for sure. All I can find out is that the message originated from a computer in St. Louis in the U.S. Try not to take it too seriously - I have had much more threatening letters than this. All the best - my warm thoughts are with you. John Hill (talk) 21:36, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. Oh I'm not taking it seriously, could have been far worse. Seems strange though that the editor attacked my User page though as if I was the head of the Tibetan Independence cause. Hey have a look at Drukair developed by User:Russavia. I started Tourism in Bhutan yesterday and was glad to find out the government strictly regulates it to high class tourism to protect the landscape and heritage. Love Nepal too, I saw a documentary last night about a Nepali tribe and honey hunting in the Himilayan foothills -fascinating stuff -involved climbing up a 200ft rope ladder and using long poles to chisel off te honeycombs with around 2million bees in them, twice the size of those in the UK -their body mass is important to protect against the cold and altitude. I've found a site which lists basic data on population and demographics on all the villages in the country so soon enough I'll get the Nepal places onto wikipedia. Its a shame there isn't more available to expand our Tibetan geo articles! Regards ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦       "Talk"? 21:45, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Byssus article

 * Hi John Hill, nice to meet you. Yes, I certainly do need help with in-line citations, and I would be absolutely delighted if you can help me learn what is the easiest way to do them. I will "talk" to you more tomorrow. Invertzoo (talk) 00:43, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi again John Hill. Thanks so much for the notes. It may take me a while to digest your instructions and see if I understand how to do this. You may have to work with me on this, if you have the time.


 * I wanted to say that although it looks as if I completely re-worked the Byssus article, correct me if I am wrong on this, but I think that basically the only really new info I put in, may have been to list the various different families of bivalves that I know have species with a byssus. I can give a different ref for each of those, or maybe if I am lucky I can use the same one or two refs for most of them.


 * If it would be helpful, I can also help by researching some of the other info in the article, in order to try to find refs for that too. As it was, yesterday I just left the previous information in the article without checking it. I did move it around some though.


 * For example, just now I checked the "Rosetta Stone" mention using a Google search, and I did find a site that has the Greek translation of the RS with "byssus cloth" in it. For now I just marked the mention in the article with a link to the site, which is not the proper way to do this, but is easy for me to do for the meantime. If you want to turn that into a proper ref please just go ahead. Maybe that will show me how to do a website footnote, which I guess is different from a book footnote. Invertzoo (talk) 13:12, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It would be helpful to me if you could reply to this on my talk page, thanks. Invertzoo (talk) 13:12, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Llamids?
Hi, what exactly did you mean by this? --Anonymous44 (talk) 12:47, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ilamid is meant to begin with a capital "i" - not a capital "l" - the font used in the Wikipedia is, indeed, very confusing and should be changed so that capital forms of the letters can be easily distinguished from each other. "Ilamid" is a reasonably common alternative way of writing "Elamite." See, for example, or . Hope that clears up any confusion. Cheers, John Hill (talk) 22:55, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, it makes more sense now (I had been wondering at first if a connection might be implied with Llamas or even Tibetan Lamas in some way :)), although I wonder how you came to encounter this version of the name in the first place. It's not really that common at all in my experience. Judging from the links you provided and other searches, "Ilamids" seems to be used in English by a few Iranian websites, for unclear reasons - perhaps they're using the Farsi (oops, Persian) form as a way of claiming their cultural heritage? A search for "Ilamids", "Ilamid language", as compared with "Elamites", "Elamite language", on either Google or Google books shows that "Ilamid" (apart from the names of some unrelated Muslim sultans) practically doesn't exist. (This includes the researcher cited by the Iranian news, who uses "Elamite" in his own writings ). A look-up in an English dictionary or encyclopedia also shows that "Ilamid" is not an English word. Of course, if there's much lobbying for it, "Political Correctness" may eventually claim another triumph. But for the time being, I think we shouldn't be giving the term a legitimacy that it doesn't have.--Anonymous44 (talk) 00:24, 16 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Reply: Sorry - I just quickly looked up a couple of references to Ilamids (i.e. with a capital "I" at the beginning) on the internet to give you links you could check (and I could find) quickly. I have seen it used in various papers but, unfortunately, I don't have any of them with me still (I was doing a lot of reading on that period a couple of years ago - but haven't been recently). You may be right, though, that it is only used in Iranian sources, and its use here is not justified. I have just had a further look on the internet and have found only a few references to it. One source that does use it in its papers and which may indicate a wider acceptance is the "Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies" which is connected with London University's prestigious School of Oriental and African Studies. However, I now discover as I tried to post it here for you to check, that their website has been blacklisted by the Wikipedia (for reasons unknown to me). I am, therefore, happy to leave it to other readers to decide whether it should be included in this article - I have no strong feelings either way. I will post all this correspondence on the Talk page to see what others think. Best wishes, John Hill (talk) 10:31, 17 August 2008 (UTC)


 * About the CAIS's blacklisting - I don't know why it was done, but I do have the vague impression that they pursue a nationalist agenda (I don't quite remember how I got it, it might have been in connection with the description of the Cyrus cylinder as a "charter of human rights", which is the only Iranian-related issue I recall having participated in anyway). They point out in their "About" page that they are not connected to the London School any more. Best, --Anonymous44 (talk) 12:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Portal:Tibet
I wondered if you would be interested in getting this onto english wikipedia? ALso I;ve moved Definitions of Tibet into its own article as there was a lot of detail and it took up 1/9th of an already large article. A debate on its boundaries should be seperate I think as the main article should be as concise as possible. Nice work and well referenced though! P.S I worked out how to change the colour of the text to white! <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">The Bald One     <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat 22:02, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello my great friend John. Yes I did think that a summary could replace it in the main article but the thing is it is a subject which involves many interpreations and scholarly views on Tibetan frontiers and definition as an independent nation as well as a conflicting one which isn't easily summarised. An article on it provided it is well balanced and of a neutral nature is perfectly approproate I think and gives the opportunity to go into detail using your wonderful books!! It should still be relatively concise though of course!

Yes I loved the look of that portal but unfortunately I couldn't just lift it because of the different french prgramming. What I'll do is either follow the Format of Portal:Thailand or something to emulate or ask somebody who is familiar with portals to help out! My only worry is that some PRC editors will start kicking up a fuss and seeing it as some declaration of Tibetan independence! <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">The Bald One     <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat 08:22, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Image:Sepik River initiations 1975.JPG
This image caught my eye - a very interesting photograph. I was wondering if you could forward the e-mail referred to in the image description page to WP:OTRS. Haukur (talk) 22:57, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Gö Lotsawa
John - on 28 September 2007 you moved the article 'Gos Khug-pa Lhas-btsas to Gö Lotsawa ~ unfortunately these are two entirely different figures. See my comment at: Talk:G%C3%B6_Lotsawa. Since you moved the article nobody seems to have picked up on this mistake and further additions seem to have been made by well intentioned people who obviously don't know much about the subject and have not read their own sources. Anyway the article is now a real mess with things about the two figures mixed together. I don't have time to fix this myself just now. Chris Fynn (talk) 04:16, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Dear Chris: I have just had a brief look at your notes and the article on Gö Lotsawa and it does look like you are right that I made a serious error last year when I combined information on the two men. I don't know yet how this happened, but the main thing is to correct the errors. I will do my best to sort the whole mess out over the next couple of days and will let you know when I have completed it so you can check the corrections or make any other suggestions you might have. So sorry for all the confusion. Oh, and thanks for picking up on the error - it will be good to get it all corrected! Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 09:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi John - Thanks for your message. There are often many Tibetan figures with similar or even identical names. So one has to be careful with Tibetan biographies. Hope the links I added at the bottom of the article will help you sort it out. Chris Fynn (talk) 09:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This article has a bit about Gö Khugpa Lhetse's criticisms of the Nyingma Guhyagarbha Tantra: . It might be usfult to include some detail about this since his criticism of the Nyingma is one of the things he is best known for. Chris Fynn (talk) 20:20, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Five Lamas
Do you have any knowledge to expand this ? <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">The Bald One     <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat 13:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I thought it looked like something of note but I'm sure you would have something on it if it was. It could be deleted of there is nothing to back it up or verify it. Regards <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">The Bald One      <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat 11:10, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Sweet dreams! <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">The Bald One     <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat 11:40, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * An English translation of the Biography of Shabdung Ngawang Namgyal by Sangay Dorji is going to be published in September. This contains the relevant material. Chris Fynn (talk) 20:20, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Altan Khan
Hi, a while ago you did quite a lot of work on the article on Altan Khan. Unfortunately there seems to be something wrong with the date when he got his title. 1470 is obviously improbable, since this would mean he reached an age of over 110. My guess is that this is a confusion, either by you or by your source, of Altan Khan and Batumongke Dayan Khan, one of Altan Khan's grandfathers. Could you please try and look this up again?

Regards, Yaan (talk) 19:00, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi Yaan: Yes, of course you are quite right. The mistake was due to a misreading by myself. Thank you for correcting it and removing the offending passage. I don't know how I missed such an obvious error. Thanks for picking up the problem and fixing it. It is great to have editors sometimes! Cheers, John Hill (talk) 20:47, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Bothrops atrox
Hi John, Since I remember that you added some information to the Bothrops atrox article regarding Trinidad, I just wanted to let you know that I've removed it. This is because I recently discovered today that, apparently, the only Bothrops species found on Trinidad is now understood to be Bothrops asper. This is also explained in the B. asper article, which already included mention of its Trinidadian common name, mapepire balsain. Cheers, --Jwinius (talk) 18:32, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi! Thanks so much for informing me that you have made changes to the article and kept me up-to-date regarding the recent identification of the species of fer-de-lance or Bothrops found in Trinidad. I really appreciate you keeping me informed. All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 22:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Harsha
Hi there,

Regarding the Harsha ancestry issue, the user asserting the Lohara is confusing the 11th century Lohara Harsha of Kashmir, with the 6th century Harsha Vardhana. I have elaborated this point on the talk page with the relevant references. Please provide a comment on the talk page? --Tuar (talk) 22:36, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Hello friend
Hi John. How are you? I've borrowed a book on Tibet:Life, Myth and Art. Its not fantastic but has some pretty good content. I wondered if you had heard of the Path of the Mani or whether we have this article already under a different name? <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">The Bald One     <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat 13:51, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry Ernst - I don't have that book available and I can't seem to find anything else about the "Path of the Mani" though I suspect it is a term for some pilgrimage. Will certainly let you know if I discover anything else. Cheers, John Hill (talk) 07:25, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Ah OK. All I have on it is Path of the Mani. It is an ancient high road between Nepal and Tibet. Regards <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">The Bald One      <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat 21:22, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I;ve done some work on Tibet/Dharmasala subjects tonight. Perhaps you have something to expand Library of Tibetan Works and Archives or Gaden Choeling Nunnery? Also I;ve created Category:Tibetology which may need filling!!! Best <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">The Bald One      <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat 21:27, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Wonderful. Your book sounds amazing!! Good luck with that. See my messages to User talk:Editorofthewiki. You'll see my computer is suffering from exactly the same problems. It keeps sending me false spyware warnings! Luckily by dad is was a former computer operator so he was able to help fix it relatively quickly! P.S I'm making good progress with the Nepalese towns and villages with some help from othera. See the crazy templates at WikiProject Nepal/District templates for progress. I;ve been using this by Digital Himilaya for the basic demographics. Perhaps you are aware of the work of Digital Himilaya? Gradually there seems to be an increasein Nepali users on here. Lets hope these can be expanded!. Best <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">The Bald One      <font size="-4"><font color="Black">White cat 11:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

1973 dated photo in Van
Hi John,

I was so amazed when I saw that photo. I am from Van but I was not even born when you took that picture. May I ask where it was taken..and how your Van impressions were at that time? No need to mention how completely a different city it is now.

Best


 * Hi. I took the photo when I was in Van for 6 weeks in 1973 doing an article I hoped to sell to National Geographic magazine on the Urartian civilisation (which, unfortunately, did not work out). I am not exactly sure of the spot where the photo was taken - but there has been some earlier discussion with someone who thought they could identify the exact place - I could check them if you wish. All I remember is that it was not far out of the town of Van near Urartian ruins close to the lake and the old Urartian dock near the base of the Van citadel. The Armenian gravestones had been carved into slabs of rock previously used by the Urartians - this was clear as there were traces of Urartian cuneiform writing still on them. I have many impressions of Van at that time and many stories I could tell - I really don't know where to start. Are there some particular things you would like to know about? Please let me know. Sincerely, John Hill (talk) 04:54, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

NowCommons: Image:Van citadel. 1973 .JPG
Image:Van citadel. 1973 .JPG is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:Image:Van citadel. 1973.JPG. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case:. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:54, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Talk
Hi John, There's a talk going on over here on the major category of Tibet. I think it would be wise to have your opinion there too. Keep on doing the good work! Regards, Davin (talk) 20:00, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Image:On_the_way_to_market,_Van,_1973.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:On_the_way_to_market,_Van,_1973.jpg, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Nv8200p talk 19:11, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Dechen Phodrang Monastery
Hello old buddy! How are you? DO you have anything reference material for this Bhutanese monastery and Tango Monastery? <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">Count Blofeld 23:07, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Please see other talk page
Hi John, just notifying you of a message I left that you may be able to offer some advice on. Thanks.--Asdfg<b style="color:black;">12345</b> 14:52, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Caught your response. I have a bunch of pages scanned, maybe 25% of it, and I have to send them to someone one of these days soon. I was going to do so through mediafire.com, so I'll just give you the link here and you might want to download them and take a look out of interest. If you did that, I'd be interested in hearing your impressions. Best.--Asdfg<b style="color:black;">12345</b> 09:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Aboriginal totemism Dear Friend: Thank you for your note. Certainly I would be more than happy to look at the papers you have and give my thoughts on them. However, I should mention that I am not the most qualified person to do this. First of all, I am not Australian Aboriginal (although I have spent almost half my life living in or close to Aboriginal communities in urban, rural and remote settings and have been very privileged to have been taught a few things and shared many priceless and often life-changing experiences with Aboriginal friends and mentors). Additionally, I am not an academic and have never made a serious academic study of Aboriginal cultures. What I do know and can share is limited - and not only from lack of knowledge - but from the lack of permission to discuss many matters publicly - and subjects such as "totemism" should really be explained by properly initiated or trained people who have the authority to speak (subjects such as these are often very sensitive and sacred or secret and subject to strict Aboriginal Law which I will, and must, respect). However, don't be discouraged - please do send the material and I will think about it and discuss it with others who will know better than I what can or should be said about it in the Wikipedia. Then I will get back to you. Cheers and all best wishes, John Hill (talk) 11:02, 11 November 2008 (UTC) PS Perhaps you should also contact 'Bruceanthro' who is an anthropologist actively working on Aboriginal issues.


 * Hey John. Finally got around to uploading the files. Reminding, they are from "Dreamtime, the Aboriginal heritage: Australian Aboriginal myths in paintings / by Ainslie Roberts ; text by Melva Jean Roberts ; line illustrations by Ainslie Roberts". It's about a quarter of it, or so. Here's the link. Peruse at your leisure, share your thoughts freely.--Asdfg<b style="color:black;">12345</b> 10:48, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

My Umbrella Tree is dying....
Hi John, You seem to know a bit about the Umbrella Tree so thought you might be able to shed some light as to why our beautiful tree is dying. We have a magnificent specimen towering at least 20 metres in our yard which is in the Mowbray Valley (which is about 300kms south of Cooktown). For the past 3 months I have noticed that the leaves are very very droopy and eventually drop off. The foilage on the tree is very sparse these days yet the red flowers seem to be ok attracting a huge flock of lorikeets everyday around 3pm. Not sure what to do with it and it is bordering on being removed. Kind regards, Lisa —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.169.198.139 (talk) 21:40, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Lisa: Thanks for your query. I am sorry - I don't really know much about Umbrella trees - but I phoned Sandy Lloyd at Nature's PowerHouse in Cooktown who does know about them. Se says that they really need a lot of water (and can be a real problem if planted near drains), and it sounds as if your tree needs more water (because of the "droopy leaves"). Sometimes, also, tree kangaroos eat a lot of the leaves and many drop to the ground - but that wouldn't explain why they are "droopy". So, she suggests just giving it lots of water and see if it recovers. If not, you will probably have to get rid of it - but do keep some of the seeds for replanting (and she thinks you might be able to grow it from a cutting as well - and suggests using some honey on the cutting instead of commercial "rooting powder"). Hope this answers your question. Do let me know what happens. Cheers and best wishes, John Hill (talk) 05:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Ngor
Hello old friend. Ever heard of this? <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">Count Blofeld 21:48, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes I had never heard of it either. I did wonder if it was a hoax <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">Count Blofeld  11:21, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi again! Well - I really don't know what to say, but the French site (with English and other languages available) looks quite pukka to me and, if it is a hoax, it is a very elaborate one - I personally doubt that it is. Check it out at Link to the French Buddhist Ngor temple. Then, please let me know what you think. Cheers, John Hill (talk) 22:11, 22 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Additional note - I just found several brief references to the monastery and group in Tucci's The Religions of Tibet and have added a short bit of text on the founding of the first monastery to the article. I think we can rest assured now that is definitely not a hoax. The article could sure do with some more work on it though. Cheers again, John Hill (talk) 22:40, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi
Hi John! Please note that I have filed a request for appeal here. Comments welcome! Best regards PHG (talk) 16:08, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/PHG
An Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/PHG/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/PHG/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Daniel (talk) 23:06, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Christmas from Baldy
Merry Christmas my good friend John down under. Can't believe its Christmas again. Seems like only yesterday you were telling me about it! You'll be pleased to know Portal:Tibet has been started by a kind wikipedian from the Netherlands who saw my request for it. I'm hoping we can alter the colours to saffron/burgundy to refelct the robes! The Bald One      White cat 14:48, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Merry Christmas from me too! I indeed made a Tibet portal and it would be very nice when Dr. Blofeld and you would fill some gaps when necessary and wishful. I like to share as well, that there actually three articles that are visited by an enormous amount of people: Tibet, Dala lama and Tenzin Gyatso. For this reason I'll try to lift them up to a featured level in Dutch (nl.wikipedia). Maybe the two of you know to organize the same here in English? Would be nice. It may be wise to place all the articles in the Category:Portal:Tibet on your follow list. Good luck with the portal. Davin (talk) 16:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Portal:Tibet all "Tibetanized" and rearing to go!! Hurrah! The Bald One      White cat 16:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Some new images I uploaded: File:Dorje Ling Nunnery.jpg, File:YangpachenValley.jpg The Bald One       White cat 18:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Can you expand Yangpachen Monastery? From what I gather the Dorje Ling nunnery is part of the monastery complex? The Bald One      White cat 21:33, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I have improved Portal:Tibetan Buddhism also; I'm sure there are more relevant topics, but I'm not a specialist on this subject. There was an error on Portal:Himalaya region that someone fixed on my request. It would be wise too for you and Dr. Blofeld to put all the articles of Category:Portal:Himalaya region and Category:Portal:Tibetan Buddhism on your follow list as well. Good luck! Davin (talk) 12:39, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

We've also developed Portal:Tibetan Buddhism with your image at the top right. Is everything allright? I thought you'd be happy with it! 13:15, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Reply to Dr. Ernst Blofeld ("The Bald One") and Davin
Thank you both for your wonderful Christmas messages and, especially, thanks to Ernst for the beautiful photo of the sand mandala. Also, many thanks are due for all the great work you have each been doing on Tibetan subjects - thousands of people will enjoy and benefit from the fruits of your labour!

The portals are great - I will try to add to them when I get some more time.

I have done some work on Yangpachen Monastery - I just hope the quotes I have made from Dowman are not too long - I just don't have the time to try to paraphrase them at the moment. One problem - I have been unable to put a caption under the photo of the Dorjeling ani gompa as it is listed as a "file" and not an "image". I don't know how to correct this - but I think it should have a caption to clarify that it is the nunnery and not the monastery. Can either of you two fix this problem?

I wish you both a happy and joy-filled holiday season and a healthy, peaceful and prosperous New Year - (if such a state is possible these days)! As we say here in Australia, "Good on the both of you!" It is people like you who make working on the Wikipedia such an enjoyable and worthwhile activity. Cheers, my friends, John Hill (talk) 01:04, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Wonderful! Such a shame the Chinese destroyed most of the monasteries as there were thousands of them. Oh I wish Tibet was free and without its problems. Have a great Christmas anyway and thanks for your kind words! P.S. of late I;ve been doing a lot of work on Nepal and now have Village Development Committee (Nepal) all started! Took me four months but we now have Nepal onto here! All the best! The Bald One      White cat 10:47, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Also if you want the caption to appear it doesn't matter if it is file or image. Just add "thumb" to it and it will do it! The Bald One       White cat 10:51, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind words. Both of you make a great amount of contributions. It's really great what you have accomplished yet. Keep on doing the good work! Regards, Davin (talk) 19:28, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Kangju
Hi John. A while back you asked me to remind you about some edits you were considering for the Kangju article. I went back there today to check out adding a specialized map and remembered that I forgot to remind you!

Anyway, I've been doing a lot of work on the various east-hem maps, especially trying to get borders in central Asia more accurate. The maps of 100 AD and 200 AD are 2 examples which show borders of Kangju, as accurately as the sources listed in my sources section.

When you have time, could you check out those maps and let me know if you consider their depictions of Kangju accurate enough to add to the article? Thank you in advance, Thomas Lessman (talk) 21:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Section headers
Hi,

I noticed you just changed a second-level header into a third-level header. Headers are nested consecutively - all third-level headers should be under second-level ones, and as this is the first subheader in the article it must be a second-level header. See Guide to layout for more details. Thanks! Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for pointing out the rule about section headers - I was not aware of it. Will try my best to fix any I have done incorrectly and to keep aware of it in future. Thanks again. Season's greetings! John Hill (talk) 11:21, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Christmas
<div style="background:crimson;border:5px ridge lime;color:gold;font-family:monotype corsiva;font-size:200%"> Hello John Hill! I just wanted to wish you and your family a merry Christmas! May this Christmas be full of great cheer and holiday spirit. Have a great day and a wonderful New Year, from  The Bald One       White cat 11:25, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Dorje Pakmo
John. I very much appreciate your work but I'm finding you often rely too heavily on quoting sections from books. Often you quote many paragraphs from books when really it should be written from an encyclopedic point of view in our own words or reworded and then using citations. For example Samding Monastery. Really that should be written in your own words as an encyclopedic description, keeping to the main points!! The Bald One       White cat 21:59, 28 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Reply re long quotes
 * Firstly, thank you Ernst so very much for your wonderful Christmas greetings. I hope you had a wonderful Christmas and I do hope 2009 will be a happy, healthy and very productive one for you and yours.
 * Regarding the long quotes - I agree with you. Ideally, I would have written all this material up into a proper encyclopedia article. The problem has been a combination of on-going pain and ill-health and very limited time (I am rushing to try to get a very long and detailed book off to the publishers some time in January). So, where I have seen the need for a new article and I haven't felt up to actually "writing" a whole article, I have thought it best to at least get a start on one by inserting the information in the form of quotes (especially when I have material to hand that may be difficult for others to access) in the hope that I can get back to it later to improve it or that someone else will take on the job.
 * I guess I should be adding a cautionary note to the Talk pages outlining the situation and asking for help.
 * I will, at least, try to rework the Samding Monastery article later today and will add a note to the Talk pages about the situation with a plea for help in improving the article.
 * Thanks for raising the issue - it does need attention. All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 22:39, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

OK great. Take care of yourself my friend and have a great New Year!! Incidentally I had a book on the history of Nepal, haven't had the chance to look at it yet. Looks a difficult read but might contain something useful. The Bald One      White cat 12:19, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello great man John. How are you? I've created a few new articles from the historical Amdo area (and created Category:Amdo, much of which of course falls within Qinghai, and I have noticed a huge number of articles missing from the autonomous areas that used to be part of Tibet. I've started Gongchen Monastery, and Longwu Temple, perhaps you have something on them. BTW an article I created, Uliger is up for deletion. I wondered if you had anything on it in your books seems as some of the tales also concern Tibet and Central Asia. I'm literally freezing as I type at this moment, its -2 celsius here today and I feel like I'm in a freezer or being cryogenically frozen! Funnily enough it is the coldest day of the year, being the last!  The Bald One       White cat 13:54, 31 December 2008 (UTC)