User talk:Kevinbrogers/Archive 9

iCarly
What are you doing? Seasons 2 of "iCarly" was split from it's 45 episode order to make Season 3 out of the last 20 episodes. Dan confirmed this on his blog that had a link on the Season 2 page that confirmed this. Nick marketed the second half of Season 2 as Season 3 because they aired enough episodes by the 2008-2009 season. There was no need to suddenly change everything. I'm fixing your edits. - Jabrona - 20:32, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Um, the only reason why some sources have it as a single season is because that's how the production was. As far as I'm concern, we have two seasons here and Dan confirms this himself. Nick marketed the second half of Season 2 as Season 3. Production-wise it's Season 2 as a whole, but broadcast wise, it's two separate seasons. http://danwarp.blogspot.com/2009/09/icarly-second-season-third-season-huh.html - Jabrona - 20:40, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Dan was confused at first but then made it clear at what was going on. He clearly stated that the show was heading into it's third season after explain the whole ordeal, hence why a new opening was made. When it comes to the DVD releases, press releases, and external sources, it's all going by how things went production-wise. - Jabrona - 20:49, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The title was likely referring to those that were confused since that was the whole background of him making the blog. As for networks falsely promoting new seasons, why is it that you didn't merge in Season 4 with Season 5 together since that was originally a whole season made from a 26 episode order? Well because like Season 2, the network split them up with a promo. Sure the production numbers may say one thing, but broadcast says another. - Jabrona - 20:57, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Considering the second half of Season 4 was a whole new production, the numbers were that of the third season which is likely why the network decided to split them up at the last minute. But the whole thing was to air out as Season 4 from 2010-2012. The production that was to start this year was to be the show's fifth season. It wouldn't be that if Seasons 2 and 3 weren't split because by Season 5, the production numbers would have been correct. http://www.tvguide.com/News/iCarly-Renewed-Season-1031856.aspx. Even though Dan admitted being confused, he seemed confident about the whole Season 2 and 3 thing. Season 4 was referred to as just that by sources, and the season we are now on is being referred to it Season 5 in a lot of places. - Jabrona - 21:04, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay that was bad info on my defense since it's one of the articles that's going by production numbers. I'm not liking this. Seasons 2 and 3 were split and since then Season 4 and 5 were referred to as that by many sources that determined them how they were put out on TV. This is just confusing now since all of this was cleared. We all knew Season 3 was the second half of Season 2 and we all understood the circumstances around that. - Jabrona - 21:18, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I know there are articles that support your claim, but that's only because the press still goes by the production numbers. You say that a promo is the only evidence supporting the split of Season 2, but a promo was also the only thing that supported that fact that we were now on Season 5 since it came after "iLost My Mind" aired that was part of the batch of episodes (but the network likely did that since "iLost My Mind" was the second one made in the new production whereas "iDate Sam & Freddie" was first). We have Dan's blog to support the split of Season 2. He was confused, but then confirms that it was the NETWORK that called the second half Season 3, and I quote: "And I guess what the network is calling the "3rd" season starts airing a few weeks from now. That's when you'll start seeing the new opening sequence." - Jabrona - 21:43, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It's reliable enough when he flat-out confirms on behalf of what the network said regarding the "third season" that was to air in the fall of 2009 as I point out above. He was confused at the whole thing himself when he came across this which is why later went about and made the new opening sequence for this batch of episodes. Broadcast seasons can happen if a number of episodes is split from one season due to a certain amount which changes how it's looked at from it's production view. Season 2 had 45 production episodes and when enough of them had aired by the summer of 2009, the Network decided to label the rest as "Season 3" even though it was technically still Season 2 and would still stick by the production codes. We were able to except that for two and a half years now so changing things now all of a sudden to fit things into "production view" just wouldn't make any sense and would just add confusion and ignore the whole situation. As a result of the known split, Seasons 4 and 5 were labeled as such and we stuck by that. The seasons should remain split. - Jabrona - 22:05, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Um, Dan doesn't state that Nick was making a new season, he states that it was calling the remaining episodes a new season which led to him questioning the whole issue. You think he would have made the blog and then a new opening sequence had the network not said anything about the situation? But seeing as though this blog isn't good enough for you, I'll have to find another source that was reliable enough would things be changed back the way they were. - Jabrona - 22:24, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I didn't know anything about the situation being discussed, otherwise I would have said something wherever this was taking place at. There are people who aren't familiar with the situation and now I just feel like we're conflicting with a settled issue like nothing ever happened regarding it. Lots of websites across the web label Season 3 as Season 3, Season 4 as season 4, and Season 5 and Season 5 as a result of the split because it got around and was a known decision by the network when it came to how the air the episodes. Dan's blog was the only thing in my knowledge that supported this since he is associated with the network people. I stick by my word that he wouldn't have done it or made a new opening sequence if it wasn't for what the network proclaimed on behalf of the broadcast input. I never looked for other sources regarding the issue, but I'll try to find something else that can be useful. - Jabrona - 22:37, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

iCarly - Split Season Defense
Hello Mr. Brogers, I just wanted to let you know that I have not given up trying to prove my point regarding the split season. You don't want to believe a split happened, but I am now going to assure you it did. After re-reading Dan's blog regarding the issue: http://danwarp.blogspot.com/2009/09/icarly-second-season-third-season-huh.html, I am going to prove to you how reliable it is and why because there are a few things about it that you misunderstood, and that I overlooked and had to get a clear understanding of.

Okay first off, Dan starts his article by telling his fans that he's been receiving comments on his Twitter account and his DanWarp gmail being asked questions regarding when the Season 2 ended and when Season 3 began. After that he says this: "Believe it or not, I kinda don't even know myself. Well, I do and I don't. I'll explain..." Now, you clearly looked at that in a way that made it seem as though he didn't know whether or not Season 2 have in fact been split by the network. When you told me this, I was convinced he was confused on the issue still when writing the blog, but surprisingly he ends the topic with a certain confirmation that "We're in the 2nd season now" and that "the 3rd season starts airing in a few weeks (with a new opening sequence)". Now why would he say that if he was apparently still confused on the issue? That didn't make sense to me.

But it's clear the split did take place for two reasons: One, this info was somehow leaked and getting around even before Dan wrote this blog. He just elaborated on it. Two, Dan states that the NETWORK was marketing a "third season" airing soon when he says this: "And I guess what the network is calling the "3rd" season starts airing a few weeks from now." He obviously heard something about it from them which lead to him creating a whole new opening sequence for whatever episodes would be part of the marketed "Season 3". He wouldn't do that unless a new season is being authorized, so it doesn't make sense so say that he did it just for heck of it as you put out. The only thing I can admit he did for the heck of it was unintentionally shooting all of these episodes than what he should for the second season production. He probably didn't know how many he was going to end up with until he was getting close to 50 after more than a year and decided to call it a day. After explaining how usually shows get around 22 episodes a season, he makes this statement: "But on iCarly we seem to never stop shooting episodes! We have an insane schedule." So I don't think Nick had anything to do with the amount. They usually order in the 13-26 episode range for their shows anyway, so why would they give such a high order for a show that was only a year old and still new?

So then when I re-read his statement regarding this: "Believe it or not, I kinda don't even know myself. Well, I do and I don't. I'll explain...", he was actually referring to that fact that he didn't know when the last episode of Season 2 before the marketed "third season" was going to air as a result of the split up. Now this blog was written on September 1, 2009 nearly a month after the latest Season 2 episode aired ("iFight Shelby Marx"), that ended up being the LAST one since the next episode "iThink They Kissed" episode was the start of Season 3. However, Dan makes the the statement: "We're in the 2nd season now", so he must not have known that "iFight Shelby Marx" was going to be in fact the last broadcasted Season 2 episode and assumed a couple more episodes of the season were to air before "Season 3". He knew Season 3 was going to happen soon ("The 3rd season starts airing in a few weeks (with a new opening sequence)"), which is why he got started on the new opening for the episodes that were to be marketed in the season. So sometime later after writing the blog he must have been informed by the network that "iThink They Kissed" would have been where they wanted to start the third season. So that episode and the other remaining ones got attached with the new opening sequence. By the end he is very confident with the whole ordeal which all makes sense now since I've explained this all to you apart from how we were thinking he was confused about the split season, when he was really referring to when Season 2 was going to end and when the marketed "third season" would begin.

So the ends are clearly all tied up here. The blog is actually reliable and all the time I've been searching for other sources to use to support the split (which I had a hard time finding) the blog was actually the only useful thing I could use knew it was something as it has been for two-and-a-half-years. Of course, the third season would keep it's Season 2 production labels since this was basically one big production season that just got out of hand. DVD releases and press releases are likely to go by the production season labels for official reasons, but broadcast-wise things can be different. For example, the TV series "Just Jordan" has 16 episodes in it's second and last season. However the first 13 were actually part of the Season 2 production whereas the last three were part of the third season production before the show was soon cancelled. So those three episodes in the third season production were added to the Season 2 count. Broadcast-wise they're Season 2 episodes, but we're not going to have people splitting them up because of what the production labels are.

So are you convinced? I'm hoping so. I just went through analyzing this whole thing to you to support my defense. I managed to save all the information from the original Season 3 page on my Microsoft I gathered from the Wikipedia tracking website Answers.com (regarding the introduction, synopsis) in case Season 2 can be split again into two seasons. This is the best I can do and I am interested to hear your feedback from this. - Jabrona - 22:15, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Before you told me the blogs failed at the account of WP:SELFPUB regarding requirements 2, 4, and 5. Now you're only mentioning 5 so it looks like I've managed to slide my way through #4 with a possible saving grace of sliding through #2. I'm sort of pleased to hear that, however I'm still upset that I still landed myself into a brick wall with #5. What I can say on behalf of that is Dan's information is as believable as it can get from what he writes on his Twitter accounts, Youtube accounts, and his blogs. We wouldn't have found out about a lot of things, especially episode titles if it weren't from those. Now I know the split thing would be based solely on the blog, but that's because the blog (as far as I'm concerned at the moment) is the most useful thing there is to support the issue. Dan had to have heard something from the network enough to write it and state about what they were "calling the third season" and whatnot. Plus, he's associated with them.


 * You surely do have evidence to support it's a single season, but it's only the case production-wise and we've known that for the longest time hence why they have the same code numbers. And yeah, there are sources that would still go by the production season labels, but we can't ignore the fact that we have many sources that go by the broadcast labels, and technically an episode list does go by the broadcast labels as I explained to you with "Just Jordan". One little issue regarding an episode list I am concerned about is the "Victorious" one on this site at the moment. Other sites list what we thought was the Season 3 premiere episode (that was in fact shot during the production of Season 3) that's been added to the Season 2 count here since Nick advertised that the new season was to begin this month. Surprisingly, this episode aired before the blooper episode of Season 2 which is why I think the labeling got handled the way I don't think would have been the case had the airings of the two episodes been swapped. It's similar to how after "iLost My Mind" of "iCarly" aired it was only by September we got the promos on there being "new season", but we get the assumption on the fact that "iLost My Mind" was the second produced episode of the season made whereas it's follow-up episode "iDate Sam & Freddie" was the first produced (I'm still trying to get why Dan shot the two out of order).


 * Now you look at the DVD releases of "iCarly" and see how they're labeled by the production seasons (with Seasons 2 and 3 put as one season) apart from how they were marketed on TV and why that was the case as Alec questioned. What was their reason for that if the seasons were split? Well, look how Nick handled the promos for the latest seasons of "iCarly" and "Victorious". You still would have thought they wouldn't have done so since it's clear "iLost My Mind" was the start of a new season for "iCarly" and that "A Tori Christmas" was the start of a new season for "Victorious" that it should have aired before the Season 2 blooper episode. But the DVD thing swings better with the "iCarly" example since Nick could have still labeled "iLost My Mind" as the season premiere episode (like they could have labeled Season 3 and onward as such on their DVD releases). They obviously had their reason of doing that by still going by how the production cycle went, otherwise "iLost My Mind" would have been referred to as the season premiere if it was produced first. That makes sense as to why the DVDs of the seasons are labeled the way they are. - Jabrona - 23:06, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I will TRY again to find something reliable that can be used other than the linked gossip on the issue that's referenced on other websites. Dan's blog just happened to be there and was more reasonable enough to use. Since Dan is associated with them, I took the notion that he was informed something by a Nick executive, otherwise how would he know the network was saying anything? If only I had something written by the network people themselves where they state that they suggested a split season. That's what make these sources so hard to come by sometimes. It looks like I'm failing here. Also as I've pointed out, I really didn't want to use the "Victorious" issue to my main point since I see that having an issue in the airing. The Season 3 premiere should have came after the blooper episode. But I still brought it up because it was somewhat similar to how the "iCarly" new season marketing was handled. - Jabrona - 00:10, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Now this may not be worth much on behalf of this, so I see it a filler for when I cover up something more useful. Here are two videos where Nathan Kress is being interviewed, one from April 2010 and another in May 2011. In this 5th video of the interview in 2010, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N7rbImWUaM the interviewer is asking Nathan about what he'll like to see happen in "Season 4" regarding his character around the 1:30 mark. Surprisingly, Nathan doesn't correct him on that compared to the production labels he's had to have known for when it came to filming the seasons. In this 2011 interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Tpz2YUxZA, one of the females interviewing him ask about "Season 5" around the 4:35 mark. Still, Nathan doesn't correct them if a split in Season 2 never happened if we were meant to go by the production labels apart from the broadcast ones. One behalf of this whole issue, you think by now Dan would have said something regarding there not actually being a split if it was never authorized. - Jabrona - 22:10, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I didn't get your feedback on my latest piece of evidence but I think I have something that's a bit better to show you. Apart from the DVD release labels of the seasons, here are the downloaded volumes available at sites like Amazon or iTunes where the seasons are labeled according to their broadcast labels as a result of the split in Season 2 that had to take place. Scroll down to look at each of the episode lists:


 * AMAZON:
 * Season 1: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001J9H9QE/ref=atv_dp_season_select?ie=UTF8&redirect=true
 * Season 2: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001JG113Y/ref=atv_dp_season_select?ie=UTF8&redirect=true
 * Season 3: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002P8ETHA/ref=atv_dp_season_select?ie=UTF8&redirect=true
 * Season 4: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003Y3OCE0/ref=atv_dp_season_select?ie=UTF8&redirect=true
 * Season 5: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005HBT5YY


 * iTUNES:
 * Season 1: http://itunes.apple.com/us/tv-season/icarly-vol.-1/id263187724
 * Season 2: http://itunes.apple.com/us/tv-season/icarly-vol.-2/id290882237
 * Season 3: http://itunes.apple.com/us/tv-season/icarly-vol.-3/id329885929
 * Season 4: http://itunes.apple.com/us/tv-season/icarly-vol.-4/id380670972
 * Season 5: http://itunes.apple.com/us/tv-season/icarly-vol.-5/id450548497


 * Now this seem to have an impact on the "True Jackson" episode list resulting in a split in Season 2 that was originally listed covering the whole 2009-2011 season. However unlike "iCarly" the split of it's season was well known before it happened and listed that way on a lot of websites soon afterwards as a result. I saw your edits regarding the list after the split was made on the "True Jackson" list and you didn't seem pretty concern with that. So I don't see why you shouldn't be concern here especially when we do have some reliability regarding it from Dan's blog before this marketed third season premiered. - Jabrona - 04:33, 12 January 2011 (UTC)