User talk:MIR17

LCFC seasons
Why don't you like my new format?Mr Hall of England (talk) 11:42, 2 March 2011 (UTC) It is an improvement on it though.


 * Tell you what User talk:Mr Hall of England/Archive 12 look at this and see if you can spot an error.Mr Hall of England (talk) 17:02, 2 March 2011 (UTC)


 * When you get time tell me if the list I have made is correct. if not write the league data, cup data and top goalscorer data in the corresponding season and I will get it right. Mr Hall of England (talk) 11:33, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I spilt the article in 3 so it helps me then if if is OK the whole lot will be together. Mr Hall of England (talk) 15:10, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Hey how are you? My page for LCFC is in a final draft but before I put this 3 parts together tell me which is right and which is wrong please?Mr Hall of England (talk) 18:08, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk:List of Leicester City F.C. players
Hi, I re-added the split of league/total apps, and have provided an explanation of my reasoning at the above location. If you have any comments post there, or you can reply direct to me. I have now added some explanatory text to the list indicating what competitions should be included in the totals. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 21:45, 2 May 2011 (UTC)


 * We shouldn't be using that website as a reference if it is incomplete. The best place for complete player stats for Leicester players is the reference book (and club bible) Of Fossils and Foxes which has the complete playing history of every single player ever to play for the club and the line-up, substitutes and scorers for every single competitive game the club has ever played (this is where I also got all of the player stats from the players I added to the table, sorry I should have sourced it). Reference books such as OFAF are generally considered a much better source than websites for wikipedia, because reference books are always properly researched and double and triple checked by editors and publishers and have their own reference sections (OFAF has also been sold in the club shop also as it is sanctioned by the club and has gone through the club's official records for history etc), whereas websites can be published by anyone without any proof reading or research and generally don't reference their own research sources.


 * Generally, in club history pages, complete competitive playing records are used, because Leicester have not just playing in the league throughout their history as it implies that league matches are all that is important, whereas other competitive competitions are important as well. Players such as Steve Claridge or Ken Leek for example are notable and important players in the club's history for their performances in competitive matches which weren't in the league.


 * Also, the "Explanation" section you have done at the top of the page I think are just table footnotes which belong more in a "Notes" section at the bottom of the page, not an "Explanation" section at the top of the page, see: Template:Note label for more details.


 * I can also add every player who has played over 100 times for the club using OFAF, but I really think we should just have a column for all competition apps and goals and not one for league apps and goals. --MIR17 (talk) 00:35, 3 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your response. You can see I have copied your reply here so we can follow the thread. I will watch this talk page, and once we've finished any discussion it may be appropriate to move some of it to the article's talk page.


 * There's nothing wrong with listing the filbert street website just because it's incomplete (as long as what is there is generally accurate, which I believe it is), but the fact that you have the OFAF book is good and I see it is now sourced in the article. Whilst having book sources is fine, the advantage of web sources is that people can check data directly, but it would seem that the OFAF book is the best overall source for club stats, though the Neil Brown website and the Michael Joyce pre-WW2 book are, as far as I'm aware, accurate sources for League stats only. However, care needs to be taken in not using a single source just because it is convenient and to hand.


 * However, I still don't understand why you don't want league stats to ALSO be included as well as total apps - surely it can only be a benefit to have both. I outlined the reason as to why League apps are meaningful on the talk page, but essentially they are often quoted by various sources (including the League stats references mentioned above), and League stats only form the basis of player infoboxes in Wikipedia, so the list we are building can be used as a quick check against infoboxes if needed. Is it simply the case that League stats are not sub-divided in the OFAF book - they must be though surely?


 * I have no problem if you feel that my competition notes should be moved around, although I see you have already reverted my changes relating to the league/total split. I believe it would have been best to leave that aspect of the article whilst we were having a discussion on it. Does the OFAF book include the same competitions as I included in my note? Eldumpo (talk) 09:49, 3 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I would say that League stats are different to other competitions in that they are the only fixed appearances at the start of the season and are very much the "bread and butter" fixtures. However I am happy with your compromise of listing Lge, FAC, LC and Other and then Total (as per the link you show), but the only problem would be a space one if you tried to do apps and goals for each competition, or would you propose to do apps-only for the competitions and then just show goals for the Total column? Eldumpo (talk) 14:24, 3 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think that works pretty well space-wise. I assume you will look to fill in most of the stats as they are in the book. If there are any discrepancies with other sources we can always consider on a case by case basis. One suggestion though to make the list a bit more readable is to try and make entries in the Notes column a bit shorter if possible, in order to reduce space taken up. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 15:44, 3 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Another suggestion is that the 'Nationality' column be changed to say 'Leicester International' (or a shortened version), in order to record those players who gained full international caps whilst on Leicester's books. The column would be blank for those players not capped, and in any case, it is often not clear what 'nationality' a player is unless they have played international football. Eldumpo (talk) 15:49, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Notable competitions
Hi, I was wondering why you have changed the note on the list to exclude 4 competitions. Is it because those competitions are not included in your book? To me all of those comps are notable, and the AIC in particular is the successor to the FMC, whilst the Texaco/ASC are to an extent its predecessor. I also moved some of our previous discs to the article talk page. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 16:34, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi, have you any comment on the above post re notability of competitions. Eldumpo (talk) 04:51, 14 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for coming back on this. My first point is that given we had agreed some wording on competition notabilify previously it would've been better to discuss before making changes, but anyway. I do think your arguments have some merit but wanted to put forward some counter-points.


 * Rothmans manuals do list player apps for these competitions. Yes, they don't incude them in the player directory section, but nor do they for FAC/League Cup/Europe. Soccerbase incudes Football League Trophy apps and it would therefore seem reasonable to incude the other comps as they are all effectively a step up from FLT; the only reason they're not on there to my knowledge is that Soccerbase does not go that far back. We need to be careful about solely relying on an official club book and saying that is the only basis for compiling a list. Whilst official club sources should ahave some weight it is not just down to Leicester to determine what counts as meaningful, and certainly I think the 'first class' wording should be removed. I would point you to a number of the List of player articles whereby these competitions are generally included.


 * Hopefully you can see the arguments I am making and perhaps there is some consensus wording/approach we can adopt, as we did successfully with the stats breakdown by competition. Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 20:39, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi, what sources were you referring to when you said that Graham Cross 599 is referenced elsewhere? I had a look at filbertstreet.net for Cross, Whitworth and Weller and unfortunately their league stats at fs were less than both our list (which primarily came from OFAF I assume) and the Neil Brown stats site, which I have now added as a ref. I chose the above 3 players as they were at the club at the time of the 'disputed status' competitions. What does OFAF do for these players. Does it show them as playing in these other competitions but then not include those apps in the overall 'top apps' list, or are those comps not listed at all? Any idea why fs is lower for some league stats - is it maybe that sub apps are not included? Is there a couple more players you could check against OFAF? The difficulty with leaving out AIC is that in its later format it was a direct successor to FMC but in its earlier format it was maybe closer in spirit to the Texaco etc, but it would not seem sensible to only include AIC in part. Eldumpo (talk) 08:53, 18 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for confirming filbertstreet does not include sub apps. I have added a suitable note to the List. See what your further checking later throws up so we can come to a conclusion about notable comps. Eldumpo (talk) 15:50, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Footballbox collapsible
Hello, I strongly recommended restoring my edit to the Leicester City season page, as you are mistaken by saying goal order was correct as of the general doing of these things. Those general doings are dictated by the documentation of the template, which in this case is template:footballbox collapsible/doc, and you can see under the usage example that the goal/card icon always follows the player name except during penalty shootouts. Check out 2010 FIFA World Cup, 2010–11 UEFA Champions League knockout phase for further examples. Thanks! Vanadus (talk) 01:25, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Once again, you are quite mistaken. Look at Aston Villa, Blackburn, Bolton, Chelsea, Everton, Fulham, Liverpool, among others. The documentation for the template is there for a reason and I strongly suggest not to deviate from it. Vanadus (talk) 15:41, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It's okay, we all make mistakes sometimes ;-). Keep up the good work on that page! Vanadus (talk) 16:23, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Ally/Ali Mauchlen
Just letting you know that I moved this article back to Ally Mauchlen. I fully appreciate why you made the move as he has been known as Ali, particularly at Leicester. However Google searches for Ally Mauchlen outnumber Ali Mauchlen by about ten to one and he is Ally in the standard reference works such as the annual editions of the Rothman's/Sky Sports Yearbook and Football Who's Who (sadly defunct). Obviously Ali Mauchlen will continue as a redirect so any Foxes fan searching by this name will still find it (as I'm sure you know anyway). Keresaspa (talk) 15:32, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Leciester players list
Hi, thanks for the note. As you indicate, we've had discussions on this before, and the multiple competitions were adopted as a compromise (on your suggestion), rather than just having Lge/Total. My reasoning against having only a 'Total' column have been made on talk here and at the article, but just to summarise:
 * Makes it easier to check figures, say if someone only had a Lge apps-only source. League apps only are available at a couple of established sources (Neil Brown, Joyce), and our infoboxes track lge games only
 * There is a split between club lists that use Total only and those which show the split e.g. Birmingham, Wolves, Portsmouth, WBA all do the latter. Also, the 4 you list are different to Leicester in that I believe they all have an online player resource site which lists 'total apps', not the case for Leicester
 * Does it take that much time to add 6 or 8 figures at a time (especially if you have the source to hand), although with Lge/Total only there would be just 4 entries to make.

Regards. Eldumpo (talk) 17:30, 3 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi, no worries if you want to change it to just Lge/Total, as you input the extra data. Quite a bit of the (complete) info is already there though, so I'm not sure how much more there would be to input? Eldumpo (talk) 23:54, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

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File:LCFChistory.jpg
Hi! If you don't mind me asking, I was just wondering what you used to create the league rankings graph for Leicester City F.C.? I'm thinking of doing something similar for the Sheffield United article.

Cheers --SUFC Boy 19:42, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

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 * vs. Watford, Championship, 2.11.2013) & 3-0 (vs. [Millwall F.C.|Millwall], Championship, 30.11.2013)
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Leicester City season 2014-15
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Infobox dates
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