User talk:Norcalal

Regarding recent major restructuring of Eureka CA article
...to understand why my restructuring from last night are not there now... — Preceding unsigned comment added by norcalal (talk • contribs)


 * What do you mean? Your rewrite of Eureka, California is still there, nobody has reverted it. - Dinnerbone (Talk/Cont) 19:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your assistance. For whatever reason, when I tried to access the article initially it appeared pre-"WikiProject City" restructure. It does seem ok now. If a reversion happens to and edit how does one revert it? Thanks Norcalal 19:52, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * See Help:Reverting. - Dinnerbone (Talk/Cont) 19:56, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Notes/References
I'm hardly "advocating" a unified notes/references section. I'm just pointing out what I perceive to be the current community concensus as indicated by usage. Mike Dillon 23:28, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I guess I did say that I lean toward unified notes/references, but that's mainly a concession to lower the bar of entry. Mike Dillon 23:31, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd suggest disussing the reversion with the editor who made the changes (User:Xaxafrad). I don't want to facilitate an edit war. Mike Dillon 23:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Nobody said making an encyclopedia was easy ;) Mike Dillon 23:38, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Theater
Please read Reliable sources and Verifiability to see the sort of changes that should be made to articles and the type of sources that all significant additions should cite. I'm sure sorry, but the information you added regarding your family using the building must come from verifiable source material. No undocumented claims are allowed. I'm sure you understand this effort to maintain verifiable information for the encyclopedia. The notation regarding the theater is well documented, and unless you can source your family history the claim will remain deleted. Remember, no original research. Again, sorry and thanks. Feel free to contact me.--al95521 13:13, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I restored the link to the theater without the (erroneous) claim. I'm trying to unorphan the Minor theater article Patenaude 02:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Test Norcalal 21:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Eureka Article
I wasn't necessarily referring to you on the talk page. Most of my editing time is spent dealing with blatant vandalism and adverts or confirmed cut-and-paste copyright violations, for which I have zero tolerance. Next is the rambling and editorialising, usually in the wrong article or section. If that's coming from an anon IP or some other hit-and-run, I remove it. If someone is clearly engaged in something productive, I often forget to take it further than a citation needed warning. (Consider the Humboldt County Avenue of the Giants trees thing you just brought back to my attention.)

So knock yourself out editing the NW California articles. I was just trying to keep the "bad guys" on notice.

But since we're treading so lightly, how would you feel about restoring the demo section back to my 6 July edit ([])? I believe that giving the U.S. Census information prominence keeps the article more in line with other California city articles.

I got some information about the Ranally city rating system that I referenced on the talk page. Eureka is part of the Eureka-Arcata RMA. Here's what they have to say about RMA's:

"Ranally Metro Areas (RMA's) represent Rand-McNally's definition of the developed areas around each important city. RMA's include one or more central cities, satellite communities, and suburbs but are not restricted to county boundaries as are MSA's. For this reason, RMA's provide a more precise [unintelligible] at areas of concentrated population. For compilation of detailed statistics' or making general 'comparisons, the MSA's are sometimes more convenient.'"

The area of the Eureka central city is 10 mi², the area of the Arcata central city is 8 mi², and the area of the RMA is 211 mi². Thi is a slightly more refined definition of the region than Census' micro area, but still includes a substantial hinterland. My own experience having worked for three of the city's largest employers (CR, ECS, and St. Joe's) confirms that people commute from much further than makes any sense for a decent job.

I thought there was some reference to the larger trade area, but except for what is implied by the city rating (3-C), there was nothing. Basically the '3' puts Eureka on a par with much larger cities, but the 'C' indicates a rather small trading area. Much of this information is proprietary and there is no push to include it in city articles. You could find out precisely what the region includes, but it's gonna cost ya. (You could also find out Census' precise core urban area for free, but it couldn't possibly be worth the frustration!)

Good eye on the "Greater Eureka" ref from eurekawebs. I had browsed similar pages and it didn't even register. The time I spent in the area made this pretty obvious, but I hadn't expected it outside of CoC-speak (Chamber of Commerce-speak, or brochure-ese). But don't go around telling people in Cutten that they live in Eureka! That's almost as bad as telling people anywhere in California or Oregon that their town is turning into Los Angeles.

This is why I like the hardcore GIS and database geeks—can you imagine disputes when all these places are just numbers (FIPS or CBSA codes &c.)? "No! block 02-326 is part of group 3196, you group 3197 imperialist!" and so forth. But now I'm the one that's rambling.

.s

X ile 13:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC) - Talk

Image copyright problem with Image:Eureka Inn 7.jpg
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Image copyright problem with Image:Eureka Inn 5.jpg
Thank you for uploading Image:Eureka Inn 5.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

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Re: Removal of the Eureka, California Amtrak Stop ARTICLE
Hi. I deleted Eureka - Bus Stop, CA (EKA) because it had been proposed for deletion as a "nn bus station" by User:Secret and no-one had objected during the five-day waiting period. Bus stations do not normally merit Wikipedia articles. However, looking more carefully at the original article I see it might additionally be a train station, which would in most cases be a suitable subject for an article. If it is indeed a train station, I'd be willing to restore the article, but I would suggest that you made this clearer in the article. Cheers, Espresso Addict (talk) 23:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Indian Island (Humboldt Bay)
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Indian Island (Humboldt Bay), and it appears to be very similar to another wikipedia page: :. It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page&mdash; you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 12:39, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, going forward please use the move function on wikipedia instead of doing a cut-and-paste move. This would preserve the page history as required by GFDL. --WinHunter (talk) 13:56, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

US 101
Generally, not all intersections are included along non-freeway portions; as a local, do you feel that the Jacobs Avenue intersection is major? I fixed the city limits. --NE2 16:21, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Humboldt State University - Intercollegiate Athletics
Thank you very much for cleaning up Humboldt State University! It sounds much more appropriate and less like an ad/press release now. -Clueless (talk) 17:02, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

North Coast, California AKA Behind the Redwood Curtain
I am very new at this. I don't know all the rules and protocols, but what I was attempting seemed very straightforward. I had noticed several links in different articles to the term "Redwood Curtain" (such as Humboldt County, California), but there existed no actual "Redwood Curtain" article. I did not think the term "Redwood Curtain" merited its own article, so I created a redirect under Redwood Curtain to the North Coast, California, and then felt a one-sentence explanation of the relationship between the term "Redwood Curtain" and the region in question would be appropriate, so I made the edit which you undid. The best reference / attribution I could find was at the UrbanDictionary website: []. I'm sorry if my edit was hamhanded or inappropriate - we all must begin somewhere, right? I appreciate any feedback or suggestions. Caveatdumptruck (talk) 07:14, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Edit conflict -Headwaters article
We literally bumped into each other. I was trying out an infobox and decided against it as I wanted it to show both the total area of the forest AND the acreage of the reserve. I also had just uploaded the photo (which is of poor quality). Also the lat/long coords I could not get any closer than Little South Fork Elk River. I thought the "edit conflict" alert was from my own editing. I did not mean in any way to disturb you and as soon as I realized there was another entity there(this is my firest conflict-will remember to clear cache in browser!), I stepped aside. Again, please don't yell as I did not know you were there. I am currently reading the BLM's business plan for the forest from the Arcata site. Would this be of help to you? Regretfully Yours, MarciaMarcia Wright (talk) 15:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

PS Here is the link to the coords: and the business plan:

Cut and paste move of Pine Hills, CA article
I noticed that you recently tried to give the Pine Hills, California article different title by copying its content and pasting it into Pine Hill, California. This is known as a "cut and paste move", and it is considered undesirable because it splits the page history which is needed for attribution and various other purposes. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

Because, based on the page history and the talk page, you and User:Nyttend are disputing where this article should eventually be named, I strongly recommend that you please follow the instructions at Requested moves. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Request to move article Pine Hills, California incomplete
You recently filed a request at Wikipedia:Requested moves to move the page Pine Hills, California to a different title - however your proposal is either incomplete or has been contested as being controversial. As a result, it has been moved to the incomplete and contested proposals section. Requests that remain incomplete after five days will be removed.

Please make sure you have completed all three of the following:


 * 1) Added    at the top of the talk page of the page you want moved, replacing "NewName" with the new name for the article.  This creates the required template for you there.
 * 2) Added  NewName  to the bottom of the talk page of the page you want to be moved, to automatically create a discussion section there.
 * 3) Added  PageName  to the top of today's section here.

If you need any further guidance, please leave a message at Wikipedia talk:Requested moves or contact me on my talk page. - JPG-GR (talk) 06:25, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

re: Seth Kinman
I noticed you stopped by the Seth Kinman article. Somehow I loved creating this article and taking it as far as I could, but I must admit that it is a pretty strange subject. To take it any further, I think that I'd have to get ahold of one of the following:
 * Marshall R. Auspach, The Lost History of Seth Kinman, 1947
 * "The Seth Kinman Story," 1876, handwritten manuscript dictated by Kinman, with additions and comments by H. Niebur, pp. 319, available in the Andrew Genzoli Collection, Humboldt State University Library (Catalog entry)

which might even be (but probably not) the same book.

I won't say that you are my last hope, but do you know how I might get my hands on one of these (especialy a copy of the manuscript)? If I were really to be bold, I might ask you to xerox the manuscript the next time you are at HSU and mail it to me in the US. OK, I'm not that bold, but I'd appreciate any ideas.

Sincerely,

Smallbones (talk) 13:35, 31 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Delighted to keep an eye on all that is Humboldt County...so much so that I ran across the article you have put so much work into. I am not close enough to HSU or the Humboldt Room of the Humboldt County Library in Eureka to easily or quickly look into manuscripts you refer to. However, I will remember this and when I go to Eureka next, I will endeavor to see about it. I also know the premier living historian in Eureka and will ask him about it forthwith.


 * Regards,


 * Norcalal 19:47, 31 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, this sounds great, I've opened my "e-mail this user" feature on my user page. If either of you wish to contact me with specific questions, requirements, etc. please use this feature.  It would be an interesting project for me to go through the manuscript, but my available time for it would be in mid to late summer, so I'm not in any rush.
 * Thanks
 * Smallbones (talk) 13:25, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Hello Norcal,

I am now chomping at the bit to do some more at Seth Kinman. There have been a few minor changes, including a picture of Seth's barroom and a contribution from HumCoArchivist (talk). HumCo is pretty much a newby, but said he worked on the Gennolli (sp?) archive, so I made a request to him to see if I could get a copy of the manuscript, but I haven't heard back. If there is anything that you can help me with (or vice versa) please let me know.

Sincerely, Smallbones (talk) 02:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the interest, I'll keep you abreast of any progress. Smallbones (talk) 23:10, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Response
If some of those places have merged with larger entities, and there are reliable sources to show that, feel free to merge the articles. By the way, it's not just the USGS that contends these places exist or did exist, there is the Durham book, and he too cites several sources for most of these places as well. As for what locals do and don't call places - do you have reliable sources for that? Also, your travels, while interesting, constitute original research but your observations would likely be echoed in some reliable sources. Can you provide them? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * You've yet to come up with reliable sources for your claims. Since I will WP:AGF that you have tried rather than just complain about expansion of the Wiki, there must be none. Move on. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 16:01, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Discussion about turning GNIS entries into WP articles.
You previously commented on this topic at User talk:Carlossuarez46. We've elevated the discussion to get community input. Please feel free to join in at WT:WikiProject Cities. Thanks! —hike395 (talk) 08:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject California (also a request on the signature)
Hi, I noticed you enjoy editing California related articles and was wondering if you would be interesting joining WikiProject California. This would just involve adding your name to the participant list, adding this project page to your watchlist, and helping out in whatever way you see fit.

On another note, could you please adjust your signature to include at least one internal link to either your user or user talk page. It makes having a discussion with you much easier.

Thanks in advance, -Optigan13 (talk) 08:40, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Civility
You call me "rapacious" - you close the door to any further discussion. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:40, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

GNIS discussion
Yes, I could tell there was little hope for the specific issue... The larger questions about GNIS and how to interpret what it says was something I found interesting. I use GNIS a lot, though mainly for natural features. I had never considered the idea that the "populated place" category should not be taken as literally as its name implies. I had never looked into it before, or the history of the GNIS database, how it was made, etc. Thought it worth posting what I found, even if not useful for the specific issue. One thing I still wonder--if GNIS populated places were just copied off the older printed USGS topographic maps, by what process did those places get onto the topo maps in the first place? My guess is: slowly over time from many sources, including, I bet, any "post office". Probably very little verification done after the initial mapping. There's plenty of examples of people trying to found a town, managing to acquire an official post office, but failing to attract any people. Anyway, just speculating. GNIS is an interesting and useful database--it would be nice if its quirks and common pitfalls of interpretation were better documented. Pfly (talk) 18:12, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

ANI
Hello,. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 21:25, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

A little thanks!
Sir, the blocking on my IP range has recently expired and I wanted to quickly thank you for your help, however my username remains blocked. I do not know where to start.

First, thank you for posting to my talk page. I now understand you paid a high price for sharing with me, and for that I am grateful. But it was useful. Had you not posted what you did, I would have had no hope on ever rejoining the community I was inexplicably banished from. Your post helped me remain patient until I could again ask for help; I have done so to another administrator here. Please keep an eye on it, for if I am not heard from soon, it may be due to being blocked again and not having a way to appeal it.

I have also read this discussion, but I was unable to participate because of the blocks on my user name and IP address. As it has been marked as resolved, I will not add anything to that discussion.

Again, thank you for your kindness! 75.37.45.172 (talk) 16:41, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: Highspeed
See my response on my talk page. Carlos' point was that Highspeed was acting just like Biaswarrior had, and (for a reason that I've not looked into) Biaswarrior was blocked. Moreover, Biaswarrior was the subject of a sockpuppet investigation that was confirmed by CheckUser — in other words, someone was able to prove (using behind-the-scenes means) that Biaswarrior had been using multiple accounts improperly. Once we prove that someone is doing this, it's obviously much more reasonable to say that another account that behaves in the same way is likely to be the first person. As far as vandalism, see this edit, where Highspeed modified many links on Carlos' talk page: obviously this was intentional, so Highspeed wasn't an innocent victim. Nyttend (talk) 20:19, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm unfamiliar with you — don't think that I'm trying to attack you. I'm trying to get community input, since others are more familiar with the situation.  Nyttend (talk) 11:55, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Dinsmores, California
Hi, I don't have much experience with the deletion process. I think I am what is called an "inclusionist" and have a dislike for article deletion. Obviously some articles should be deleted--nonsense, jokes, etc. I can see why the Dinsmores article might be a deletion candidate, but I'm not sure. There are two sources, both reliable, backing it up (although the Durham book is not cited on the page, it exists and could/should be cited). Then again, both sources are themselves apparently sourced to the name appearing on the USGS Camp Mountain topo quad map. Durham says so quite clearly in California's Geographic Names, page 50, entry for Dinsmores: "Named on Board Camp Mountain (1977) 7.5' quadrangle." The "Referenced Cited" section of his book makes it clear that this statement means his source for listing Dinsmores is its appearance on that 1977 USGS topo quad map. The GNIS source does not say what its source is, but given the way GNIS was, and still is made, it is probably also based on the 1977 Board Camp Mountain quad map. Still, there are at least two reliable sources that say Dinsmores exists in that place. We can second-guess where they got their info and whether it is incorrect or not, but that gets into original research, same as your info from the Dinsmore family. You may well be right that there is not, and was never a place called Dinsmores at that location. But like you said, it is hard to prove a negative, especially in the face of two reliable sources. You'd have to not only prove a negative but also show how both sources are incorrect. Tricky.

Still, you could try. I've never tried to delete an article so don't know much about the process. It looks like you'd want to read Deletion policy. A request for comment, WP:RFC, might be the "nicest" way to start. You could list the article under "accuracy dispute", WP:AD, with the Template:disputed tag. Or "nominate" it as a article for deletion... the WP:AFD explains how.

But, personally, I think I would not do any of these things myself--if only because I dislike the kind of discussion that would likely take place before a decision to delete could be reached (unless no one disagreed with the proposal, but that seems unlikely, no?). Plus I have that "inclusionist" urge. What I would do, I think, is edit the Dinsmores article to better reflect what the sources actually say. It strikes me that Durham says Dinsmores is a "locality", in contrast to Dinsmore, which he calls a "village". GNIS says it is a "populated place", but that category is poorly named and includes many things not normally considered "populated". It should not be too hard to find information on the GNIS "populated place" category and how it includes things like ghost towns, old railway sidings, and so on. I found some info on this and posted at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities, but perhaps some better sources on the GNIS category could be found. In any case, given Durham's use of the word "locality" and GNIS's overly broad, poorly named category "populated place", it seems to me that neither source says that Dinsmores is an unincorporated community--or even a community at all. Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't. So I might keep the page but change "...is an unincorporated community..." to "...is a place...", or something equally vague. Perhaps "...is a locality...", with a footnote to the Durham book. The settlement infobox could be taken out and the article's link could be removed from the Humboldt County template, since there is no evidence it is a settlement. Finally I would explain all this on the relevant talk pages--basically that the Dinsmores entry in GNIS does not say it is an unincorporated community, that the GNIS populated place category includes non-settlements (a good source saying this would be handy in making the case), and that Durham calls it a locality.

That would, it seems to me, avoid the unpleasantness of the deletion process, keep a page that is, after all, about something backed up by reliable sources, but fix the unknown, probably incorrect idea of it being an unincorporated community.

Yikes I wrote for a longer time than intended. Anyway, that's what I would do, after having thought about it a bit. I might simply do these things myself, but not right now--it is late and I should be asleep! Pfly (talk) 09:27, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * This seems like a decent source for the claim that GNIS feature classes are broadly defined beyond the normal meaning of the terms used: BGN: Domestic Names - Metadata, USGS GNIS website (more precisely, BGN: Domestic Names - Metadata; How does the data set describe geographic features?; accessible via the "GNIS Metadata" link at http://geonames.usgs.gov/domestic/index.html the main domestic GNIS index page]. About feature classes (like "populated place" as well as island, stream, summit, etc) it says:
 * A feature class is a designation for a group of features in a broadly defined descriptive category. All features are assigned to one and only one class. They do not individually classify all kinds of cultural and natural features. By design, there are no Federal or industry standards or guidelines for feature classification. These classifications originally were developed for mainframe file structure search purposes. Although the terms are generally consistent with dictionary definitions, they may not conform exactly and are not always intuitive. (Source: Geographic Names Project, USGS, 523 National Center, Reston, VA 20192-0523 (gnis_manager@usgs.gov).)
 * Seems pretty clear to me. A GNIS "populated place" may be something other than what one would expect from the term. A "place", sure; "populated", maybe not. There is also a definition of "populated place" given at Feature Class Definitions: "Place or area with clustered or scattered buildings and a permanent human population (city, settlement, town, village). A Populated Place is not incorporated and has no legal boundaries. See also Census and Civil classes." However, this page's definitions are clearly not meant to be 100% accurate. The fact that ghost towns are included in the populated place class demonstrates that. I think I will make the edits to Dinsmores, California I was talking about, but probably won't get around to changing the county template. Pfly (talk) 04:52, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Article proliferation in California County Infoboxes
Here are some thoughts I'll throw out regarding the dilemma we're facing. Perhaps we can hammer out a basic argument here on our talk pages and then proceed with posting it to the appropriate project/article location? (and some of the following statements are taking a 'devil's advocate' position, so feel free to respond with a reasoned argument and change my mind! So, first, I would propose that the many stub articles for the most part should be left as they are, with possible improvement of the addition of content (with citations) explaining the reason for an article's thinness (e.g., discuss the flaws in the GNIS database). Second, propose an alternative to listing all of these phantom 'communities' in a county info box. As an alternative, have one link in a county infobox marked 'Ghost Towns/Historical locations' and a second link as 'Indigenous settlements'. These would link to either an article that would contain lists, wiki-linked to the stubs or to a category listing where all the stubs could be found. The result would be to preserve this very obscure collection of information, and to bring back a visually appealing (and manageable) county info boxes. Whacha think?? Highspeed (talk) 07:41, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been busy with work lately, so I've been absent. But upon my return I have found more damage. I am sickened by the editing that is taking place. Blind transcription of reference books into Wikipedia is a recipe for disinformation. Since I usually restricted myself to editing only subjects that I was familiar with, I had naively assumed that was the role of Wikipedia editors; to take sourced/referenced information and responsibly place it into the encyclopedia. But errors are piling up. But I am afraid enough to not suggest any changes until which time I can craft a detailed argument and slug it out. It amazes me that someone can fight so hard to defend one's own ignorance. Oh, well. Highspeed (talk) 19:59, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Fixed the Humboldt County template, I hope
Hello Norcalal. Well I finally couldn't take it and fixed Template:Humboldt County, California and described it all on Template talk:Humboldt County, California. Hopefully I didn't make too many mistakes. I probably would never have come back to it but I never got over my annoyance at the way User:Carlossuarez46 raked you and User:Highspeed over the coals, taking it to the drama pit of ANI where he eventually got chastised by other admins for being excessively draconian in his blocking of Highspeed. That all wouldn't have been so bad, but after being shown how inappropriate his abuse of admin powers had been he failed to say another word. I thought an apology to Highspeed was in order, at the very least. Watching the drama caused my opinion of Wikipedia admins to fall several notches. Anyway, due to that the issue stuck with me until I finally got around to fixing the template and "locality" pages he had mass created. Pfly (talk) 07:18, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the message, and you're very welcome! It wasn't that much work, once I got the pattern of editing down. I meant to do the same for the Monterey County template, and began to prepare for it, but got sidetracked. Someday.... Pfly (talk) 08:39, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Fruitland and Calville
Hi.. I think I looked at those. Hmm… yea I didn't change Fruitland because Durham calls it a "settlement". I only changed those he called "locality". I think this link should go to Durham's entry, Google Books. He says a bit about Fruitland. The more recent date mentioned is 1934, but I could not tell whether it was still inhabited or not. Likewise for Calville, the Durham entry calls it a "settlement" but has almost no info on the place. I didn't mess with anything labeled "settlement". And I have no clue on these places other than the Durham book and GNIS. So… sorry, I have no other leads! Perhaps some deeper research could turn up better info. Pfly (talk) 08:05, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

King Salmon
Thanks for explaining your meaning! I took the statement of "part of Eureka" to mean that it really was a part of the city, not simply a small nearby community. Nyttend (talk) 12:08, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Bodega Bay/Lagoon
I see your point about Bodega Bay, but it depends on how you define a bay or lagoon. The Wikipedia article on lagoons notes that many lagoons do not have complete closure from the ocean. Some folks would identify the open water outside of the harbor as a bay; and I would concur with your evaluation that is not a lagoon. On the other hand, the harbor itself has a dredged channel through the lagoon bar. Some articles on similar features, like Drakes Bay and Bolinas Bay, have separate article on the included lagoons Drakes Estero and Bolinas Lagoon. I didn't find a separate article in the case of Bodega Bay, and I question if the subject warrants a separate article; but, as an inclusionist, I thought the lagoon categorization applied that portion of the bay. The map with the Bolinas Bay article is a particularly good illustration which I believe is similar to Bodega Bay. Humboldt bay, on the other hand, is entirely a lagoon maintained open by dredging through the bar.(talk) 20:56, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Saw this and looked at some maps and GNIS info. It looks to me like Bodega Bay is definitely not a lagoon, while Bodega Harbor is. The Bodega Harbor page calls it a "harbor", which may be true, but it seems to be a natural lagoon too. The relevant GNIS entries are: and . GNIS lists Bodega Lagoon as a variant name for Bodega Harbor. Maybe I am misunderstanding the issue. Perhaps Thewellman didn't know about the Bodega Harbor page? Pfly (talk) 22:57, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Right on! Thank you for pointing out the appropriate article for listing.Thewellman (talk) 23:12, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Please see my responses RE: Humboldt Bay in the article and at talk. The Humboldt Bay Bar is a creation of the action of the ocean that angles the entrance to the bay at a 45 degree angle, generally. That "Bar" has never closed and the the extensive construction of both jetties keeps this most dangerous of Bay entrances from being as deadly as it once was...especially previous to 1881. Norcalal 06:45, 1 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the excellent summation of historical information on the discussion of Humboldt Bay. I hope citations may be found to expand the fascinating geologic and commercial history of the bay.  Draught of early ships using the bay has been particularly elusive.  I suppose draught varied with the cargo loading at any given time, and captains may have attempted to conceal that information from their competitors.  I have tremendous admiration for the skill and courage of sailors like Buhne and your ancestors who successfully navigated early crossings of the bar.  My great-great-grandfather was a contemporary captain of a North Atlantic schooner on a trade route between Liverpool and Prince Edward Island.  Please let me know if I may be of assistance in expanding the Humboldt Bay article.Thewellman (talk) 18:05, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Your signature
Hello, please be aware that your current signature does not link to either your user or user talk pages. Per Signatures, signatures "must include at least one internal link to your user page, user talk page, or contributions page." Thanks, Glass  Cobra  17:49, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Done Norcalal (talk) 06:01, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Steam donkey categorization of the site of invention

 * Quote: "Humboldt is where it was invented. That is indisputable." (your edit summary)

I can easily dispute this since the article says nothing about the Steam Donkey being invented anywhere in particular. Regardless, it would be most unusual to categorise a generic 'thing', like this, in a category that is primarily intended for specifically-located places, people or businesses. You certainly wouldn't be able to get away with adding a cat for every location where one of these was preserved -- that would just make the category system unworkable. If there was only one Steam Donkey, ever, that would be another matter

I have not removed the category again, yet, since this gives you the chance to add the referenced text that explains why the article should belong in it. I'll then probably ask for advice from other editors, as there are many more critical of article categories than I am (this is nothing personal).

EdJogg (talk) 16:20, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The City of Eureka website History of Eureka, California - Timeline of Historically Significant Events and Dolbeer steam donkey and Shay locomotive change the face of logging both show the invention of the steam donkey in Eureka in 1882 (related to the granting of the patent) but actually it was invented the previous year. More to come. Norcalal (talk) 17:02, 15 January 2010 (UTC) Norcalal (talk) 17:18, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, so you've (apparently) proved it was invented in Eureka -- appropriate name I guess -- not Humboldt, so I have refined the category accordingly. Now at least it ties in with the article. I may yet request outside opinion of its appropriateness. EdJogg (talk) 18:29, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Getting back in the WP CA ballgame - Felipe de Neve
NorCal, please take a look at Felipe de Neve. I want to bring it out of Stub status. --Ronbo76 (talk) 17:06, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

WQA discussion notice
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SPI
Just a note that a user with whom you appear to be in a dispute has opened this. I don't think anything will come of it, but just a heads-up. TN X Man 13:52, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

tallest trees
Heh, sorry for the "pissing contest". I somehow stumbled upon some pages this evening saying coast redwoods were the tallest in the world, and remembered reading about pre-logging days in a book I had on hand. When I had first read it I had found it curious that Douglas-firs were likely taller than coast redwoods before intensive logging. Perhaps it is just because I live among Douglas-firs and not coast redwoods, I don't know. Pfly (talk) 09:05, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, just to let you know, I replied over on my talk page. And I just remembered how I stumbled upon the topic last night. I saw that you had added Category:Redwood National and State Parks to the Klamath River page. Curious, I checked this category out and read the Redwood National and State Parks, which led to other related pages. Before I knew it I had read the phrase "world's tallest trees" a bunch of times and remembered having read something about it in Van Pelt's book. By the way, I haven't had the chance to explore northern California very well--just driven quickly through a couple times. I'd long wanted to explore Redwood National Park. Before reading Van Pelt's book I hadn't heard of Jedediah Smith and Prairie Creek state parks. Van Pelt wrote several descriptions of specific areas in these parks, and they sound rather amazing. The national park is famous of course, but it sounds like the most impressive groves are in the state parks. Someday I hope I have a chance to see for myself. Pfly (talk) 18:12, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Now curious, I skimmed the book again. He describes a "hike along the south side of Bull Creek from Rockefeller Forest eastward to lower Bull Creek Flats", in Humboldt Redwoods State Park. His description made me want to go exactly there. Pfly (talk) 18:24, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Richardson Grove Alterations.
I see that you have a position that is for the widening of US HWY 101 through Richardson Grove. I believe there are reasonable arguments both in support of widening the road and in support of preserving the redwoods.

Why do you support the widening of the road? What is your connection to businesses that stand to profit from the widening of the HWY?

You can not keep changing the article on Richardson Grove to reflect only your opinion. You must be ethical and at least moderately unbiased if you're going to keep changing the Richardson Grove page. I am watching every day. 75.109.248.108 (talk) 22:02, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The comments from the unregistered editor above have led to no further development. I carefully included input from both arguments and since I am not in favor of cutting the trees, I think considerable balance exists. Norcalal (talk) 22:22, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Fallen redwood photo
Hey, there's a discussion on the Sequoia sempervirens talk page whether a photo of the Bank Hall fallen redwood, which was added some time ago and then recently removed, should be added again. Since you mentioned on the talk page that you earlier deleted a section on fallen redwood, your opinion would be valuable. — Eru·tuon 01:08, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

West Bay Sanfrancisco
Could you explain this to me? I first noticed this being written while I was doing page patrol and didn't know if it was legit or not, now I'm seeing you revert it. What's the story with West Bay and the story with San Jose? N o f o rmation Talk  07:05, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

David Chain
Hello, as I see you are local to the area, I would appreciate if you could have a quick look at the article I just created. I know you have a keen eye for detail and I could do with you checking I am getting the location right, etc. --Phagopsych (talk) 03:25, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for your feedback. --Phagopsych (talk) 18:06, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Eureka, California page
Greetings from another local Wikipedian!

Would love your help with the section on Eureka, California titled "Queen City of the West." It seems to have some odd bits tossed in. I fixed the edits by that same anonymous editor in the Post WWII paragraph below, but I am stumped for how to fix the Queen City paragraph pretty much short of tossing it and starting over. Which is what I did for the other three edits by Random IP guy. Thanks for your help on this, I just can't seem to find where to put the hook in it to get started. Ellin Beltz (talk) 05:43, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Carson Mansion
I'm not saying Carson Mansion isn't an important landmark (although I've never heard of it and I've lived in the SF Bay Area my entire life), but even in the "far north coast", what about Fort Ross? Also, what is the "far north coast"? Is the term reliably defined? Either way, it's Original Research unless the claim can be cited. I think something along the line of "a noted/important/popular landmark" would be more appropriate, especially given how it's not even a National Historic Landmark (List of National Historic Landmarks in California). Let me know what you think. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 18:24, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I will check my resources on the City and Mansion and clean up the lead after I return from Europe. Norcalal (talk) 00:52, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I fixed the citations on the Carson Mansion to Library of Congress record online and did a very light edit on one paragraph of text. I removed the reference to the North Coast entirely.  And apologies to Dante Alighieri of San Francisco, the Library of Congress says the Carson Mansion is "Considered the most grand Victorian home in America"  so I changed the page to reflect their opinion. It is not a National Historic Landmark because the owner would have to apply for that honorary designation which puts a lot of restrictions on how the property can be used and maintained.  While NHL is a great system, inclusion in it is voluntary and does not show that a building is better than or worse than another.  @Norcalal... Enjoy your vacation !!  Ellin Beltz (talk) 06:57, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * You're arguing against a claim no one is making. No one said that a lack of placement on the NHL made it a "worse" building or any such nonsense. I do, however, think that it does a priori indicate it's probably not THE most recognizable landmark of the region. If you couple that with the data point that even residents of the region do not universally recognize it, then it's quite a claim that residents from outside the area will think it recognizable. As I had already stated, I never disputed it was an important place, I just asked for citations... which are now provided. So what's the problem? P.S. Your reading comprehension skills need a refresher, I'm not from SF. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 20:30, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

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Arcata, California
Agreed that Census official terminology is required in paragraphs relating to Census data. Besides, as I wrote the user on his/her page... A nunnery of Catholic sisters is a "same-sex household" certainly not a "homosexual" home. I thought of some other examples later... I doubt if male-only dormitories at Brigham Young University could be described as a "homosexual households," nor a co-educational HSU college dorm be an entirely "heterosexual" environment. And why just those three towns? Seriously, doctrinaire trollage boggles my imagination.Ellin Beltz (talk) 17:18, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Seems the user has been blocked indefinately... you called it. Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:35, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Carson Mansion is this Whoops on Wikimedia?
I'm not sure if the categories on the Carson Mansion on Wikimedia Commons are correct. Look at This page and see if you don't see "national register" as categories? I do and I didn't think the Carson Mansion was National Register because (at least the article says) the owners will not permit it. Any ideas? Ellin Beltz (talk) 00:21, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

New Photos in Humboldt & Del Norte Counties
Thanks for catching that "big cities" addition to Eureka! BTW, I've added a bunch of photos to Category:Del Norte County, California & recategorized a bunch of images in Category:Humboldt County, California. You'll notice a lot of new historic plaques in both counties, more photos of lighthouses and buildings on National Register and so on. I hope that some of these photos help with articles you've wanted to start or to add to, but for which you haven't had any imagery. If you have any photo wish list items, please let me know. Again, thanks for that editing catch !! Ellin Beltz (talk) 07:04, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Gnat swatted with elephant gun
You may find today's additions to User talk:Al Villarruel of interest. Ellin Beltz (talk) 18:12, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I am actually a little saddened by this one, Ellin, as it may be that he has some health or developmental issues beyond immaturity that make it impossible for him to be an effective contributor to Wikipedia. That does not, however, excuse his actions, the effects they have upon others, or the consequences of those actions. I appreciate the indefinite block that has been placed upon him. Norcalal (talk) 21:43, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Ya, but... he issued a pretty nasty threat to me when he blanked my page and that sticks with me more than my sorrow at his real or internet immaturity. Like I said, gnat with elephant gun, but I will be happy to no longer worry about wiping up gnat tracks on my user page. Ellin Beltz (talk) 22:42, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I had not remembered the previous matter with this editor. Wow. Thanks for reminding me. Norcalal (talk) 00:28, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Proposal to merge & other tidbits
I left a proposal to merge Humboldt Arts Council into Morris Graves Museum of Art. There would still be two pages left, the Museum page and the separate page for the Carnegie library, but I feel a case can be made for leaving those separate especially if the Museum page were expanded with things like regular events in year and special shows and so on. Other things which are notable are mentions of artists in their permanent collections, and so on. Are you going to use the recent North Coast Journal article to beef up the Clarke Museum page or shall I? Oh and please take a look at Humboldt Bay Life-Saving Station I got the photos for it yesterday in that glorious afternoon light and finished editing the page last night. Marine railways... Granite for St. George... who knew? Ellin Beltz (talk) 19:11, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 12
Hi. When you recently edited Foster Farms Dairy, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Stockton (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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 * Thanks for the notification. Stockton has been disambiguated. Norcalal (talk) 20:22, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Help??
I'm not getting any comments on my dky Template:Did you know nominations/Humboldt Bay Life-Saving Station. Any chance you could take a poke at it?? Ellin Beltz (talk) 18:01, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your edits to the Life-Saving station !! Tonight's doodle was Castle Rock National Wildlife Refuge because I'm planning to work on the Humboldt Bay National Wildlife Refuge, and started with that page as it is a subset of the refuge complex.  I saw on the Template that you edited that there is an entry line for "Eureka Mall."  Someone started that page last year, discussion ensued and the site was declared "non-notable."  You might want to take it and the Henderson Center shopping off that part of the template.  Thanks for all you do for up here!! Ellin Beltz (talk) 06:47, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
 * FYI I am not going to work on Wiki for a while, maybe never again. I was insulted by an admin yesterday for absolutely no logical or rational reason. He is justifying his behavior now, but it is obviously how he behaves and if one doesn't like it, one must lump it. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. After the death threat that required the police to solve and now this, I am tired of contributing to this project to receive only hatred back. If you want to reach me for anything, just google my name.  Ciao!  Ellin Beltz (talk) 14:33, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Simon J. Murphy, Sr.
Hey, I noticed you added that the Murphy family didn't gain control of Pacific Lumber Co until 1931. Do you have a source for that? When taking a tour of Simon Murphy's winter home in Whittier, CA, the date 1905 was mentioned for the Pacific Lumber Takeover. Do me a favor and prove me wrong. p b  p  21:50, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know the answer but suspect either of these references would cover it.

Unrelated... Norcalal, thanks for noticing I'm occasionally flitting around. Maybe it's safe again, but I plan to go slowly. Ellin Beltz (talk) 03:32, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The History of the Lumber Industry in Humboldt County -- Hyman Palais and Earl Roberts -- The Pacific Historical Review -- Vol. 19, No. 1 (Feb., 1950), pp. 1-16 -- University of California Press  or
 * Strapped Pacific Lumber Plans to Sell 60,000 Acres -- Tim Reiterman -- Los Angeles Times -- http://articles.latimes.com/2006/feb/11/business/fi-lumber11

Sudden Global Warming in Ferndale
I just reverted a massive edit to Ferndale, California's weather tables. The editor who made the changes apparently didn't notice that all the numbers were wrong after his edit! Please help me keep an eye on the page, as I am not here all the time anymore? Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:30, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Pacific Lumber Company
Thank you for your Work on subject article. I have a couple of related items which might be valuable additions to the article if someone closer to the subject could find supporting references.

The first is mention in a 1931 National Automobile Club Pacific coast touring guidebook of a "government nursery for the propagation of redwood trees for reforestation" on the Redwood Highway south of Scotia. I recall what was described as a PALCO tree farm in that area, but wonder if you might be aware of the history of any county, state or federal involvement in that operation.

The second involves potential relationship of the cogeneration plant with the hostile takeover of PALCO. A former PALCO company engineer told me the woodwaste-fueled electrical power plant built at Scotia was the largest capital investment ever made by the company. That fact largely reflected inflation since original land purchase and earlier sawmill and railway construction projects, and demonstrated the low debt service which had previously enabled PALCO to remain competitive with sustainable harvesting practices. The cogeneration plant was built to take advantage of state legislation encouraging alternative energy utilization; but the capital investment apparently weakened the Murphy family's ability to withstand the hostile takeover. Documentation of that relationship would be a powerful demonstration of the environmental consequences of late 20th century capitalism.Thewellman (talk) 10:50, 13 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The only reference I can find on this is in David Harris, The Last Stand: The War Between Wall Street and Main Street over California's Ancient Redwoods, 1 March 1997, Sierra Club Books, 978-0871569448, 384 pages, page 278:  "This time, the occasion was the dedication of Scotia's new co-generation power plant, the one that Gene Elam had been consumed with planning while Hurwitz was stalking the company." I don't find any other references to the power plant in the index, and when I am done reading the book I'm reading now, I'll go through the early part of the book to see if I can find more.  It looks to me as if your source was correct.  Hope this helps!  Ellin Beltz (talk) 21:55, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Eureka superlatives
Hi again!! I changed that troublesome sentence over at Eureka, California based on the only citation I could find in tonight. And I really did search. It doesn't seem to be a phrase that has much use in books or magazines; I couldn't even find it on the usually superlative laden Eureka Chamber of Commerce website. Please take a look at the talk page section and also the article main space. What I found was the Eureka General Plan which reads "Located on California's North Coast, Eureka is the westernmost city of the contiguous United States and the largest coastal city in California north of San Francisco. Eureka is situated on Humboldt Bay, which is the most important port between San Francisco and Coos Bay Oregon." So, because that's the only citation I can find, I rewrote the sentence that way. If we can find a published source that states the obvious "largest Western U.S. coastal city north of SF" I will happily rewrite it again. Until then, however, just putting what we know but cannot cite, will just bring trouble. Cheers!! Ellin Beltz (talk) 08:08, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the gentleman who writes the fact-filled section at the back of the North Coast Journal could be persuaded to undertake this statement. If he found it to be true, we could cite him.  I am really glad you're ok with my edits over there at Eureka, I tried to be as careful as I know how, but I'm only half-way through the dates and citations with it on my "to-do" list.  Also doing that, I got distracted by the Davidson reference which led me to make changes on Humboldt Bay using his reference.  Thanks for your note, if we don't talk again before 25th, please accept my heartfelt holiday wishes for you and your loved ones! Ellin  Ellin Beltz (talk) 05:43, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Humboldt Bay, again
Hi Al!! Would love to have your eyes on Humboldt Bay again. I added several new citaions, including an interesting book entirely about the jetties which I received for the holidays. Your eyes are really good at spotting my errors, so if you'd be so kind, please take a look-see over there and make any changes you think needed. I hope you had a marvelous holiday season and wish you all the best for the New Year. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 06:42, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Awesome resource!
I found a publication I think you would like to have for your work on Eureka economy, sawmills and timber business: Timber in Humboldt County by Henry J. Vaux, California Agricultural Experiment Station, Bulletin 748, University of California Division of Agricultural Sciences, February, 1955. You can download a copy in pdf or other formats from that page. Searching the Internet Archive by topic is sometimes quite educational. Try "Humboldt Bay"... ouch many videos... Limit search to "text" ... ping!! old books ! I have been taking topic by topic locally and searching the archive - don't forget to go back over your old topics every year or so as people are constantly adding new materials. It's one of the ways I found many of the books of John Ross Browne online for free, and only have had to order the one of his letters to keep seeing if he has any more interesting observations to make about white/Indian relations in the early days of Humboldt County. Thank you again for my barnstar !! Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:37, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Bucksport reworked
Hello again!! Would you be so kind as to cast your editorial glance at Bucksport, California and see if anything obvious pops out? I have redirected "Buck's Port" to this page as well, since they are one and the same. Your old buddy the maker of fine stubs seems to have created two pages about same town 4 years ago! I also edited the Humboldt place name template so only the one "Bucksport" shows. Hope this finds you well and hearty! Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 05:27, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Dinsmores redux
I poked around, I see a Dinsmore, California page and a page for the Dinsmore Airport (California). Tell me what your end vision is for "the Dinsmores" and I'll see if I can effectualize it. HUGS! Ellin Beltz (talk) 17:10, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I have had an idea of how to deal with all those tiny towns... What would you think if we made a page "list of ghost towns of Humboldt County, California" and just redirected all the separate pages to a list? Then if a town got enough information about it, the town could be graduated back to a whole page.  I think it's worth a discussion with a couple of other editors, but might be a possibility?  Ellin Beltz (talk) 07:41, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Eureka snow
Hi Al! You may find something of interest in this citation [ http://ggweather.com/climate/eureka.pdf Eureka WFO Woodley Is, CA], Climatography of the United States, Number 20, 1971-2000, U.S. Department of Commerce, National Ocean and Atmospheric Administration - for  Eureka weather. I found it today while cleaning citations on Crescent City. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 18:04, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Template troubles
Hiya... someone recently put a bunch of non-notables on the Greater Eureka template. See Template talk:Greater Eureka Area for what I removed. Headsup, seems like more people who haven't a clue about up here are working off Yelp or something and adding MORE useless redlinks. Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:02, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Pesky Seal
Somehow the Eureka seal keeps vanishing off the Eureka page! I made a new image today in Photoshop, uploaded it to Wikicommons, put it on the Eureka page, and now let's see if it stays! I used the wikicommons California state seal and added the letters in Photoshop. Let's see if it survives the deletion bunch and manages to stay on the page this time. Ellin Beltz (talk) 15:22, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Duckburg, who knew?
I added a section today to Eureka, California because in random wikipedia cruising I discovered... "Duckburg is described as a medium size city located in the fictional U.S. state of Calisota. Cartoonist Don Rosa described where he placed the imaginary town: "I won't bother to say precisely where I situated Duckburg and Calisota on America's west coast... but if you get out a good map and compare the coastline, you'll see that I stuck the old gold-prospector's adopted hometown directly across the bay from a very appropriately named actual city." (Don Rosa, On The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck, Gemstone Publishing, 2005, ISBN 0911903968) I located a USGS graphic and added the river names that correspond with Duckburg rivers... curiously they are on the "Baie du Audubon" and have a high-security prison in a town to the north called "Bourg-les-canards" (Translate: "Town-of-the-ducks"). It's those things I never knew before that make working on Wiki so much fun! I hope all is going well with you! Ellin Beltz (talk) 17:03, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Morris Graves
I found the problem! The machine added and tags around your edit and thus your wiki link would not work. Maybe that's an iPad artifact? I don't know and can't test it because I don't own an iPad (or a mobile phone). Hugs! Ellin Beltz (talk) 15:23, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Upstate California
An experienced editor chopped Upstate California back down to the size of the marketing campaign it started out to be. I thought you might like to take another look. The one who thinks he owns that page is going to be most upset when he notices sometime in the next two weeks or so! Ellin Beltz (talk) 04:29, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It does not exist as a region or a term even used infrequently, if at all. I edited some for correctness, but I'm glad to see reality enter the picture. A certain editor will cry bloody murder, though...I'm surprised it hasn't happened already. Norcalal (talk) 08:32, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I am waiting for the explosion as well. Ellin Beltz (talk) 20:07, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

John Wayne of Bayside
We have a new Humboldt County editor who rolled into the Bayside article with opinion and no citation, hence my rewrite with citations. Check out User talk:Mjgovednik and his Special:Contributions/Mjgovednik. All three are uncited opinion edits and in the last case, that of the Carson Mansion being a state historic landmark, simply untrue. I welcomed him and suggested he read the five pillars, but I was thinking with your greater experience and wider Hum Co knowledge, might have another way to his ear. Plus you're a dood, and he might listen to you. Ellin Beltz (talk) 15:42, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Check it out
I finally found out where Albeeville, California was located! An old map was very helpful as was a search through the correspondence of officers in the Bald Hills War. It's an exciting tale, look forward to your feedback on it!! Hope all is well with you. Ellin Beltz (talk) 19:10, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Welcome back
I saw your edits on local stuff today... Welcome back! I've been putting photos on pages of populated places in Humboldt County as well as nibbling on the Salt River (California) page. Hope all is well with you. Ellin Beltz (talk) 05:56, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

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 * research and teaching vessel, and a demonstration forest.
 * 2010: Universities-Master's (West): Top Schools], U.S. News &amp; World Report, accessed April 2013

Consider adding
Please consider adding "Category:Wikipedians in Northern California" to your home page, unless you prefer the more specific, "Category:Wikipedians in Humboldt County, California". Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 17:38, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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