User talk:Premeditated Chaos/Archive 16

Bradford Clay
Hi, I've reverted your merger of Bradford Clay, as it's part of the Forest Marble Formation, not Cotham Marble, see Figure 3 here. You were, no doubt, misled by Forest marble redirecting to Cotham Marble, which was an error, now fixed. Mikenorton (talk) 08:55, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 * , that is exactly what happened. Thanks for fixing it for me. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 02:04, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Notice
PROD on article Intermere has been (sadly) removed by the article's creator, so you will have to take it to AfD. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 20:01, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Requesting undeletion of Draft:Alanna Arrington
Hi. To make a long story short, I came to ask you, the closer, for undeletion of this draft because I strongly believe that I, myself, can once and for all fix this draft for approval at this time; as she has more than accrued significant coverage and notability by now. The problems is other people kept messing up this this draft with their crappy editing. If I submit it and it gets rejected I wouldn’t ask again. Thanks.Trillfendi (talk) 20:47, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
 * , can you give me a few examples of the kind of significant coverage you're talking about? I usually prefer not to restore content that was deleted at an XfD discussion without some indication of notability. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 11:21, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Vogue UK, Maxim cover,  Cedar Rapids Gazette - one of her home state’s local newspapers, InStyle, Vogue, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, V magazine, Vogue Italia Harper’s Bazaar W, Vogue Arabia, This is Insider, St. Louis Magazine, some local radio station, the Daily Mail, WWD are examples. Trillfendi (talk) 14:12, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
 * , sorry about the delay. Coverage looks good, I'll restore it for you to work on. Cheers. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 08:30, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Requesting undeletion of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Homeschooling_Day
There is no reason other than any subjective one to have deleted this page. Do you expect people to be on Wikipedia 24/7 editing pages? Do you even think about people having difficulty reading, writing? So far, comments are not true. The topic of the page is pure and simple the International Homeschooling Day. It is a page about the day itself. Other information on the page is added to learn more about homeschooling and various types of homeschooling. The page is not even up for debate. The page will grow in the future. There are tens of millions of families around the world homeschooling, the majority of them chose homeschooling because the public schooling system is not offering what their children need. In this digital age there is a giant world of knowledge to find online, which is one of the reasons it is completely normal to chose to homeschool. The page is to be published on Wikipedia, therefore I suggest undeletion of the page. mvsa 16:47, 12 November 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marlies van St Annaland (talk • contribs)
 * , sorry for the delay in response to this. The article was deleted by consensus at AfD in this discussion: Articles for deletion/International Homeschooling Day. It was not a question of being on Wikipedia 24/7 or not, as the discussion was open for just over a week, which is typical. No one found any substantial independent sources that discuss the topic of International Homeschooling Day, so in accordance with our guideline on notability, the page was deleted. Unless there are sources available, I have no intention of restoring it and undoing the community's discussion. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 00:19, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your explanation. The reason why you did not find resources is that we are the source;it is a new day, installed for all homeschoolers around the world. The purpose of celebrating this day is to support homeschoolers of all nationalities, lifestyles and communities around the world. If there would be posts or links shared by homeschoolers, foundations, online classes businesses, around the world, would Wikipedia then be willing to undelete? It has been shared though on a few websites. Probably you did not find it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marlies van St Annaland (talk • contribs) 20:29, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The reason why you did not find resources is that we are the source - exactly, and this is the problem. We are not a platform for the promotion of new things (see WP:NOTPROMO). We are a tertiary source that summarizes the opinion of reliable, independent secondary sources. If there are no secondary sources, there is nothing for us to summarize, so we cannot retain the article. Unless the day has been reported on in multiple reliable sources that are independent of you and your organization (see WP:RS for our definition of what constitutes a reliable source), we will not undelete or restore it. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 21:23, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Auckland & District Pipe Band
Hello,

would you mind restoring a copy of Auckland & District Pipe Band to User:Ostrichyearning3/ad? I can then work on getting it sufficiently referenced for namespace. Many thanks! Ostrichyearning3 (talk) 22:08, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * , it's done. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 00:22, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much!! Ostrichyearning3 (talk) 19:48, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Interesting de-orphan
Hey PMC,

Going through the Feb '09 orphans I found Forgotten Cats. I've looked for coverage and I'm really on the fence as to whether it's notable or not. If it is notable, it could be improved and de-orphaned by linking it from Trap–neuter–return. Any thoughts as to whether to AFD it? Or maybe WP:BLAR would be appropriate?

Best,

 SITH   (talk)   10:56, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * , I think it would probably pass at AfD. If it was newer, maybe not, but there's multiple reasonably substantial sources spanning a decade or so. There's coverage from mainstream news in Delaware and Philadelphia, so IMO it scrapes by WP:AUD. If you're interested in what I found:
 * Philly coverage:, , . Delaware: , , , . &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 21:44, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Beautiful, I'll get onto that just after I've gone through the February 2013 orphans with AWB and removed any that shouldn't be tagged as orphans. A surprising amount of the ones which also have unreferenced tags need converting to refimprove but that's the same thing in AWB I guess!  Best,   SITH   (talk)   21:48, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Recusal request
Since you have deliberately ignored my requests (which by nature is incompatible with WP:ARBCOND: "Respond promptly and appropriately to questions ... from the community, about conduct which appears to conflict with their trusted roles" for you to provide evidence on your accusation on how I am making "mischaracterisation", deliberating misinterpreting my question while accusing me of making "insinuations", in addition to prejudging of the case by reaching to the conclusion that Maxim "jumped the gun" when the evidence/workshop phase does not close until the November 30th. Therefore this is my official request for you to recuse from the Fred Bauder case. Of course you are free to decline/ignore the request, but this needs to be said and go on the record. Alex Shih (talk) 09:41, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
 * My initial comment is a sufficient explanation as to why I used the word "mischaracterization".
 * My opinion with regards to Maxim acting in haste is a restatement of what I said in my response to the original case request. It's also quite similar to opinions that my fellow arbitrators have voiced (see 's accept here, and 's, as well as their other comments on the Evidence and Workshop pages). I notice you are not asking Euryalus and Opabinia regalis to recuse over their comments.
 * You indicated that you had some unspecified evidence about the Committee "acting" in this kind of situation, presumably negative based on your use of scare quotes to emphasize the word acting. You did not provide any information as to the nature of this evidence, or even its relation to the case at hand. Alluding to the possibility of something negative in this way is an insinuation. I invited you to share any relevant evidence openly on the Evidence page, where Evidence should be put, so that it could be seen and discussed by everyone. I see that you have not done so, which is certainly a decision you are free to make. In any case, there is no prohibition on an arbitrator disagreeing with someone's comments on the case pages.
 * At this point I see no reason to recuse from the case. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 00:23, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Requesting undeletion of Stump the Experts
I'm requesting undeletion of the Stump the Experts page. I found the discussion about potential deletion. I received notice of the deletion. I did not receive notice of the deletion "discussion" (it wasn't one, really).

The event ran as a rogue adjunct to WWDC for two decades, and was a source of great enjoyment for thousands of developers from all corners of the globe. The deletion discussion acknowledged the existence of the event, video footage confirming the long-running existence of the event. Getting coverage was never the point, so using lack of coverage as a basis for determining whether to keep it documented seems a bit off. The event served to bring together, in an interactive venue, a very large group of people who have built community as they crafted a substantial portion of the world's software.

I would also appreciate a copy with the edit history (which contains useful info for possible reconstruction on Wikipedia or elsewhere).

Wofe (talk) 04:16, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Existence is not proof of notability. Wikipedia exists to summarize information about notable topics as discussed in reliable third-party sources. If no one wrote about this event in reliable third-party sources, we can't maintain an article, per our policies on verifiability and notability.
 * Notifications about article deletion are a courtesy, not an obligation. They are usually made to the article's creator. A given article can have dozens, if not hundreds of other contributors, so notifying everyone who's ever edited a page when it gets nominated for deletion is not expected. I see that you are not the article's creator, nor even its most prolific contributor (your contributions occurred in 2012 based on the history), so there is no reason anyone would have thought to notify you, let alone be obligated to do so.
 * The deletion discussion was left up for just over three weeks; ample time for anyone with sources to chime in, which no one opted to do. As there were no contesting voices, and the discussion had already been relisted twice, I deleted it in accordance with the consensus that developed. I am willing to email you a copy, along with the edit history, but I am not undeleting the page. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 06:53, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

As I recall, and it's been a long time, but I recall creating the page using a friend's account on-stage at Stump the Experts to comedically rebut an audience member's assertion by pointing out that my answer must be correct because it was on the Internet. And now it's not. That's actually funny!

While I did not mean to suggest that anyone owed me notice of the discussion, I would have appreciated an opportunity to engage in the deletion discussion (I'm reminded of the Vogon's response about the plans for the demolition of Earth). As you see, my response to the deletion notice was immediate; I might well have engaged in the discussion with similar alacrity.

Stump is so well known among the large community of developers that its noteworthiness is a matter of lore (if not of well-regarded record), e.g., comments like this (which _are_ on the Internet), Translated: "The Stump the Experts event is next to the Apple Design Award "must attend" sessions of every WWDC." "One of the more popular events at WWDC is "Stump the Experts",…" Translated: "We must go back to 1992 to see the first "Stump the Experts" at WWDC. Unknown to the general public, this event is reserved for the developers present at the conference and each year, many eagerly awaited it."

Thank you for offering to email the page with the edit history. I'd appreciate that.

Wofe (talk) 01:09, 24 November 2018 (UTC)


 * I don't mean to be rude, but as I've said, you had just over three weeks to see that the article had been nominated for deletion and participate in the discussion. I'm not sure why you didn't see it, but it wasn't because there wasn't sufficient time.
 * Being well-known within the lore of a niche group isn't the same as being notable per our standards. We need multiple reliable sources reporting on something to give an indication that it is notable. Those sources aren't reliable or in-depth enough to indicate notability. Two of them (mac4ever.com and macnotes.de) are basically Mac rumor/news aggregators, and the Engadget source is way too short to hang an entire article on.
 * I've emailed the page content at deletion, and the history, as two separate emails. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 01:52, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Material from an article you deleted
Hello. Recently you deleted the article List of 18th – early 19th century sources on Souli and Souliotes which I created. Although you didn't give any explanation on that, there are users who suggest that the material can be included in the article Souliotes. Therefore, I request access to the deleted article, so as to salvage it in my talk page for future use. If possible, post the text in my talk page.

I don't mean to bother you, but I might draw your attention to the article Souliotes in the future, if the same users who wanted the deletion of the list, want to delete the material from the article as well. Thanks in advance.--Skylax30 (talk) 14:42, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I've userfied it at User:Skylax30/List of 18th – early 19th century sources on Souli and Souliotes. I don't have the article on my watchlist and I'm not particularly interested in the topic, so if there are future issues with how much of the list should be placed in the main article, please take them to the article's talk page. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 01:55, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
 * How about the Stampeders, eh? I'm watching virtually with . Drmies (talk) 01:56, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Would we have to stop being friends if I said I don't watch football? &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 19:09, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks.--Skylax30 (talk) 20:25, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Tarl Warwick draft
Hey Premeditated Chaos,

Would you be able to move the deleted draft of "Tarl Warwick" to my sandbox, and secondarily would you be able to explain how i could show that the reasons of the previous two AfD (Notability) threads is no longer applicable?

Cheers, ReaIestTruth (talk) 05:10, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm sometimes willing to undertake such requests, but in this case I'm going to decline. It's been deleted twice at AfD and your references are almost entirely YouTube videos, which are not accepted as reliable. A subject's notability is determined by the existence of multiple reliable sources about it: sources which are independent of the subject, generally accepted to be factually accurate, and discuss the subject in some depth. If you can demonstrate the existence of such reliable sources, I am willing to reconsider. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 02:09, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

TODALS deleted?
It was pretty sad to see the TODALS page get deleted. I see what you mean but my school still uses it. I really wish I still had the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AdrianWikiEditor (talk • contribs) 14:35, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I can email it to you if you enable the "email this editor" feature. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 20:30, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

File:Dril.jpg nominated for deletion
I don't know if you've seen, but Dril.jpg (the image of his avatar) has. Since you understand the context of dril's persona, it'd really help out if you weighed in there. I've just posted a pretty massive, thorough defense of the image's uses in the article, as well as updating the image rationale so that it justifies each use of the image on the page with specificity (which, as I see it, was the nominator's sole approximately legitimate gripe). —BLZ · talk 21:05, 27 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Well, looks like the discussion is tipping the other way, but thank you for weighing in all the same. Your analogy to Magritte was perfectly apt, eloquent, and thoughtful. —BLZ · talk 23:00, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
 * No problem. I personally thought your argument was well-made, but sometimes it just doesn't take. Shame - I really do think the article suffers for it. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 23:21, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Reception list for Granny Smith (video game)
If you suspect these the review lists is look like ads, I can remove it from the page. I promise to remove any unwanted contents as you warn me. But don't haste to delete the article, examine deeply. Video game task (talk) 16:47, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
 * You didn't answer my question. Are you being compensated in any way to produce these articles? &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 16:54, 2 December 2018 (UTC)


 * No, I'm neutral person. I'm a normal editor, like Wikipedian. My mere work is for creation of video games to contribute Wikipedia. I'm so distant from any company or organization. There is not any external force that prompts me to build article in Wikipedia. If you have any complain that my articles are wrong, you can order me to remove these mistakes. Then I'm obedient. Video game task (talk) 17:05, 2 December 2018 (UTC)


 * It's not about ordering whether or not you made a mistake. It's about the fact that you've now created two articles about barely-notable mobile apps, both formatted in a very formulaic way that reads like ad copy rather than fan enthusiasm, and are anxiously inquiring on multiple talk pages about when they will be indexed on Google. Why is that so important to you? &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 17:22, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

In fact, most contents, such as gameplay and descriptional material about the games is entirely written by myself. For the former article, it's entirely done by me you can check the citations. The citations actually derived them through Google search. Most citations are enough for reliable sources. Some sources mentions about the genres of the games. I have collected from TouchArcade, that explains about the gameplay. They are all websites, not mobile-apps. Video game task (talk) 17:57, 2 December 2018 (UTC) Fishy fishy Legacypac (talk) 18:01, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

A beer for you!

 * , I'm so embarrassed, I meant to reply to this earlier. Thank you very much :) &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 16:43, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

New account
Hi, I'm just here to inform you that I have set up a new account. I think I read somewhere on Wikipedia (can't find the page to hand atm) that a member of the Arbitration Committee should be notified if someone sets up a second account so not more than one account is being used by any user. My old account is/was Helper201 but I have been unable to log in as I've apparently been entering the wrong password.

I really want to find a way to get my old account back but I am unaware if there is any way around this problem as I did not set up an email address with my initial account. If you know of any solution I'd really appreciate it, there has been an awful lot of work put into my old account with thousands of edits over three years and I have hundreds of pages on my watch list. Would it also be alright if I continued to try and log in to my old account and if successful then let you or another member of the Arbitration Committee team know so this one could be terminated?

Thanks for your time,

Helper201V2 (talk) 04:18, 7 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi . If you never set an email and you don't have a committed identity set up, I don't think there's much that can be done to regain control of your old account. If you've ever identified yourself to the Wikimedia Foundation, you could try to email Trust and Safety to see if they can help you, but otherwise you're unfortunately out of luck. For now, I'd make a note on your userpage about what's happened, so people don't get confused. Accounts can't be deleted, so if you do get control of that one back, just put a note on both userpages identifying this one as an alt and then stop using this one. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 04:36, 7 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi. Really sorry, had a mad half an hour and now remembered my old password and I'm back on my old account. Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. Cheers. Helper201 (talk) 04:39, 7 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Would it be acceptable to pin that note about the alt account to the top of my talk page, as I've never liked the idea of having a user page?


 * LOL well that's good to hear :) Glad I could be of service. Talk page is fine. It's not exactly a big deal since you basically never edited on the new one. If you don't plan to use it in the future I wouldn't worry about it too much. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 04:44, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Jay_Sarraf was deleted, help recover and recreation with Wikipedia guided norms
Hi PMC, the page Jay_Sarraf was deleted, your kind support and guidance is needed to help recover the page and complete it according to Wikipedia expected guidelines. Fearlessniki (talk) 07:24, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but no. It was deleted by consensus at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Jay Sarraf. Mr. Sarraf is far below meeting our notability criteria for academics, so there is almost no chance of the article making it into mainspace. Therefore, at this time I do not think it would be beneficial to Wikipedia to restore the draft to be worked on. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 15:53, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I am sorry, for incomplete information, if given a WP:Chance, and allow the article to be in the draft for editing, will.help provide relevant information. Fearlessniki (talk) 16:12, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It's not about the information being incomplete. The subject absolutely fails our notability criteria for academics with zero ambiguity. All the editing in the world is not going to make him notable. When he has achieved enough academically that he is likely to pass those criteria, that is when an article should be made about him, not before. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 16:42, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you
I edited the sources on Gratuitous Type (magazine) to improve them as suggested. Removed your template but let me know if you want to place it again. Arispool —Preceding undated comment added 01:20, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Advice
Ok, I will comply. Besides, my initial advice to him wasn't in bad faith. Tgeorgescu (talk) 03:42, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Doesn't matter. Try to imagine yourself on the other side of that - you've just posted somewhere asking for help, and some dude who already reported you shows up out of nowhere to leave a comment. No one likes to get advice from someone who's been telling them they're wrong. At best it's annoying, and at worst, it looks like an intentional poke in the eye. It serve no purpose and you're better off not doing it at all. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 03:50, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok, this is something that I have learned now. Good to know in the future. Tgeorgescu (talk) 03:55, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Gastropod pages
If you are considering any gastropod pages for deletion, please post at WT:GAST rather than my bot’s talk page. — Ganeshk (talk) 04:04, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * It's automated via Twinkle. It's not intentional. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 04:05, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I see, thanks for responding. — Ganeshk (talk) 12:43, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Rationale for PROD of Ryūzōji_Tanehide
While I appreciated your nomination rationale, I did feel compelled to slightly slightly alter it. ~ Amory  (u • t • c) 20:59, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
 * LOL, no problem. As you can tell, I was somewhat...unimpressed with the sourcing :P &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 23:30, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Happy Holidays!

 * Thanks Cam! Hope your holidays are good :) Cheers! &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 06:01, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Merry Christmas PMC!
Happy Holidays text.png Hello Premeditated Chaos: Enjoy the holiday season, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, The SandDoctor  Talk 07:54, 25 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings1}} to send this message

Wishing you and your family all the best in 2019 PMC! -- The SandDoctor Talk 07:54, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Yo Ho Ho


Liz Read! Talk! is wishing you Seasons Greetings! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's Solstice or Christmas, Diwali, Hogmanay, Hanukkah, Lenaia, Festivus or even the Saturnalia, this is a special time of year for almost everyone!

Spread the holiday cheer by adding to your friends' talk pages.

What should we do with these?
These 10,088 all have exactly two incoming links from other articles in the mainspace. On the one hand, that's 8.6% of orphans that shouldn't technically be orphans as we only require one incoming link to remove the tag per Orphan. However, the same page also says it's best to have at least three incoming links. Looking at the articles on the list, it's a mixed bag but they're definitely not orphans. Some of them may even be eligible for deletion but I have an idea. If I can figure out a way to link the Quarry query which generated that list up with something like PetScan which can do ORES predictions on massive batches of articles, I could de-tag the ones which aren't orphans but keep the ones behind which either need more work (or deletion) so they won't be forgotten.

Obviously, this will mean 10,088 edits will need making in quick succession so I don't know whether to put a bot request in or just get consensus for the change at AN and do all the edits via an AWB script, but I'm erring on the side that most of them aren't orphaned and are well-networked enough.

What are your thoughts on it?

Best,  SITH   (talk)   18:03, 26 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Blaaah...I'll be honest and say I don't think it should be automated. Not because I don't think they qualify to be de-orphaned (I'm not a stickler, one incoming link is sufficient for de-tagging IMO), but because in general I'm not a fan of automated de-orphaning. I've written elsewhere about seeing an orphan tag as a symptom; often it's the only reason that weird unloved old pages ever get looked at. For that reason alone I usually argue that it's better to have human eyes reviewing them, just in case they're crap. Even with ORES, I'm hesitant to say it's a good idea to automate the process. If you're still set on it, I'd say definitely get consensus somewhere either at BAG or AN, but it's not something I'd support. That being said, I'd be happy to work on the list with you - we could probably knock it out together pretty quick if we made a point of focusing on it. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 20:12, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Also, it's worth checking that the links are valid: that they are supposed to point to the page in question and aren't disambig pages or hatnotes. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 20:24, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Both good points. I'll hold off, and if there are ones where it isn't a problem I can just manually do it.  Best,   SITH   (talk)   22:38, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I hope you don't mind if I start working on some? I'm bouncing between my taxobox list and some Feb 09 categories, but I like having low-hanging fruit to pick at :) &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 23:03, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Undelete OKEx PROD
There's a WSJ article, some Bloomberg articles, and likely some local news articles to be found once I do a deeper search. It also seems to be a separate company from OKCoin per Bloomberg "OKEx, which was founded by Star Xu, the entrepreneur behind Chinese crypto exchange OKCoin, has been criticized by traders before" and this OKEx tweet. Џ 18:06, 26 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, I apologize for not getting to this sooner. I've been editing from work and didn't get the chance to do the deep source dive I usually do before restoring stuff like that. Should've replied and said as much; sorry about that. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 03:12, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Brother Lion
Hello Premeditated Chaos When I Checked The Brother Lion Article It Said Anthony Appleseed Restored And This Morning When I Checked It Again You Deleted The Brother Lion Article. Would You Be So Kind As To Bring It Back Because I'm Making A Prequel To The 2003 Disney Animated Film Brother Bear. If You Bring It Back Would You Like To Sign Up For Brother Lion? Thank You And Happy Editing In 2019. APaoloL — Preceding unsigned comment added by APaoloL (talk • contribs) 16:44, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't believe it's an official Disney release, so I'm going to have to go with no. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 03:14, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Wubba Wubba Wubba
Hi Premeditated Chaos. Before you closed Articles for deletion/Wubba Wubba Wubba as "delete", I was looking for sources about the subject. Here is what I had planned to have written in the AfD:

Keep and rename to Monster in the Mirror to have the article focus on the song instead of the chorus per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The book notes: "As soon as children reach the Sesame Street stage, they can find this first mirror evoked nostalgically in a song entitled 'Monster in the Mirror.' Here the child hears the babytalk narration ('wabba wabba wabba wabba woo woo woo' is the chorus) of the baby encountering a monster in the mirror, which, over the course of several verses, his gaze accommodates and tames. The lyrics suggest the progression from the transliteration of babytalk to recognizable English phenomes. 'Wabba wabba wabba wabba woo woo woo' cedes to 'I will wabba you and you will wabba me.' Violence, proxemics, and touch are hinted at when the monster's 'wabba' seems to become meaningfully transitive and even aggressive, sounding like a threatening 'rubba.' Finally, it seems contextually to become merely babytalk for 'love' as if what is being said is 'I will love you if you will love me.' In the visual images that surround the lyrics in Sesame Street's music video for kids, what appears is not the reflection of the child viewer but a montage of television pop culture images, drawn not just from kids' shows or even PBS, but a collage of all aspects of television viewing not proscribed for the under-five age group. This is you, your mirror, your culture, never first or last, but in one looping, eternally present surround. This is how you will learn to see, to speak, to move, and to love—watch and learn, Sesame Street seems to say in a self-conscious gesture. However, I think it's altogether likely that the convergence of elements in this song is just one of the ways that the fairy tale tells us more than it knows. It illustrates the assumption of the imago in all its potential monstrousness, combined with the access to language, sexuality, and love."  The book notes: "The Sesame Street celebrity version of the song 'Monster in the Mirror' has everyone from Ray Charles to the Simpsons singing 'wubba wubba' along with Grover, who croons about how he tamed the monster in the mirror with kindness. Are you a manager? If you are, before we part company, I want you to ask yourself how your employees might view you. Does your managerial style include a wardrobe of black capes and green goo? Do you fear your employees might see a monster in you? you may be a monster boss's victim and at the same time some other victim's monster boss. If you think this is possible, remain calm. Management is a skill. You can learn it. Actually Grover's song has a point. In good management practice, kindness is a good place to start."  The article notes: "2) Monster in the Mirror It is impossible not to dance to this catchy number! But it also has the deeper message of being the change you’d like to see in the world. You can always count on Sesame Street to make you smile and think at the same time. Also included: double Grovers!"  The book notes: "*** Sesame Street's 25th Birthday: A Musical Celebration: An hour-long collection of favorite Sesame Street songs, such as 'C is for Cookie,' 'Bein' Green,' 'Monster in the Mirror.' ..."  The article notes: "Subtitled A Tribute to Jim Henson, this program highlights 20 years of Sesame Street, and it emphasizes that the show is more than Henson and his Muppets. … Jim Blashfield produced three: Monster in the Mirror and The Word Is No, directed by Laure Di Trapani; and Forty Blocks From Home, co-produced with Paul Diner and directed by Don Wallace."</li> <li> The article notes: "Other films include: 'Adventure Song,' with the female pop group En Vogue; Rhaz Zeisler's 'Imagination with Elmo'; Veronika Soul's 'African Alphabet Box'; and Jim Blashfield and Associates' 'Monster in the Mirror,' featuring Robin Williams, Candice Bergen, Whoopi Goldberg, Julia Roberts, characters from 'The Simpsons,' and others."</li> <li> The article notes: "'Jeff Moss didn't know as much about rock 'n' roll [as he did about other musical genres]. I was the logical person to fill in that one little hole in the arsenal. I did some things that were fun and they let me keep doing it,' [Christopher] Cerf says. His first song, 'Count It Higher,' from 1971, is not on this set, but later ones, like 'Monster in the Mirror' and 'Put Down the Duckie,' are included. 'If you write five or 10 songs a year, after 30 years, you've written a heck of a lot of songs,' he says."</li> <li> The article notes: "'Oh yeah,' hums OutKast's Andre 3000, a man considered by many to be as cool as two cucumbers. 'Sesame Street was great, for sure. I always wanted to perform on Sesame Street. I remember Stevie Wonder doing Superstition on Sesame Street... that was some good shit.' Andre Benjamin is right to praise it. It was, after all, the show that gave children access to puppet-ridden performances from Johnny Cash, James Brown and the classic Ray Charles duet with the Cookie Monster on Monster In The Mirror ('He sang wobba wobba wobba and I sang along: wobba wobba wobba it's the monster song'). Thankfully, Andre is doing something he hopes will match it."</li> <li> The article notes: "What more need be said, except the facts about the first Sesame Street Film Festival that opens tomorrow night and runs through Sunday at the New Victory Theater, New York's theater for kids at 209 W. 42nd St? The festival, which celebrates the start of the 28th season of 'Sesame Street,' features 47 animated, film and puppetry shorts produced for the series. Highlights include: three works with William Wegman's Weimaraners, En Vogue in a short titled 'Adventure Song,' Veronika Soul's 'African Alphabet Box Song' and the unforgettable 'Monster in the Mirror' starring Grover with Ray Charles, Robin Williams, Whoopi Goldberg, Candice Bergen, Julia Roberts and the Simpsons among others. I say unforgettable, because once you see this short -- the happiest two minutes of film that I've ever seen -- you will never be able to get the refrain out of your head: 'Wubba, wubba, wubba, wubba, wee, wee, wee/Wubba, wubba, wubba, wubba, woo/Wubba, wubba, wubba, wubba me, me, me/And I will wubba, wubba, wubba, wubba you.'"</li> <li> The article notes: "For starters, at 8 p.m., we're all invited to 'Big Bird's Birthday' or 'Let Me Eat Cake,' a 'Sesame Street' special apparently just made for these PBS cup rattling moments. ... And we have cameo appearances from 25 celebrities in Grover's music video, 'Monster in the Mirror.'"</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Monster in the Mirror to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 11:37, 29 December 2018 (UTC)</li></ul>

Would you move the article to draftspace at Draft:Monster in the Mirror, so I can first refocus the article to be about the song instead of the chorus and then move it back to mainspace? Thanks, Cunard (talk) 11:37, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I created Monster in the Mirror. Would you undelete Wubba Wubba Wubba and redirect it to Monster in the Mirror? Thanks, Cunard (talk) 10:20, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * , sorry for the delay, it's done. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 08:45, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * No worries, thank you! Cunard (talk) 08:50, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Premeditated Chaos!
<div style="border: 3px solid #FFD700; background-color: #FFFAF0; padding:0.2em 0.4em;height:173px;border-radius: 1em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);" class="plainlinks">

Happy New Year! Premeditated Chaos, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

Hhkohh (talk) 02:20, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Invalid taxa
Hi PMC, this thread may be of interest to you. — Ganeshk (talk) 05:09, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

A beer for you!
It still blows my mind that we had over 18k when I started in in 2017, and now we're under 6k. It's doable! It's totally doable! &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 22:16, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Note
I stand corrected about the first link. regarding the second link I am still unable to find any reference to the Pragatisheel Bahujan Samaj Party. Can you point what I missed here ? thanks. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  13:28, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Cheers, I love a mango lassi :) You're right, I actually misspoke when I made my first comment. The second source includes the names of the four people mentioned in the article, but doesn't go into any detail about them or their party. I've made a comment on the AfD saying as much. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 13:39, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. -- D Big X ray ᗙ  14:30, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Missionaries to the Unborn
Hello Premeditated Chaos. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Missionaries to the Unborn, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: considering the age of the article, the fact that some coverage most likely exists due to the 2001 ruling and the fact that most sources are probably offline, I think WP:AFD should be used to allow more input. Thank you. So Why  08:48, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Sportivnyi Stadium
I noticed the prod for this page and got curious. See, in Russian, it literally means "Sports Stadium" and it struck me as a bizarrely generic name for a stadium. Also, seeing that the name is 2006 is in Russian and not Uzbek makes it doubly bizarre. The article is not exactly a hoax, however. I believe it is a butchered translation, a la Prawo Yazdy. This game log states that Lokomotiv played at JAR Stadium, or as one may put it in Russian, "Спортивный стадион ДжАР" (Sportivnyi Stadium JAR). Applying English syntax and naming conventions, one ignores the "JAR" part and gets Spotivnyi Stadium. JAR Stadium was renovated in 2005, so maybe that explains the capacity differences? All that to say - the article should still be deleted. <font face="Arial"><font color="#FF7133">Maxim (talk)  17:03, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
 * LOL, "Sports Stadium" sounds like something right out of a comic book panel. Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it. I was genuinely mystified as to what was going on. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 23:52, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

List of people from Welwyn Garden City
Each entry needs to have a citation next that person otherwise they will be removed from the list, and if there is no list, this will be sent to WP:AfD. Govvy (talk) 10:39, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * It would be just as simple for you to add references rather than remove the entries just to make a point. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 12:44, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * LOL, my bad, I thought you were one of those on and off editors when I first saw the list, probably cause it went straight up live without any citations for each person. Sorry for that. My apologies. Govvy (talk) 15:15, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Nah, I was just being a lazy cow and yanking my entries straight from the category. S'all good lol &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 06:36, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Question regarding new page creation
Hello Premeditated Chaos,

I am new to wikipedia. I am an MBA student interested in innovation and the latest thinking in the world about any and all business subjects. One contribution I would like to make to wikipedia is bringing profiles of the latest thinkers of the world to light (I have done quite a bit of reading and research into this for my degree/program). The place that I would like to start is by putting profiles up for the 2019 Thinkers50 Radar class. Thinkers50 is an organization dedicated to identifying global thinkers that will make a lasting contribution to business and management thinking. They publish their "Radar List" every two years. The list is comprised of 30 thinkers they have identified with work and ideas to follow. Many of these thinkers work is cutting edge and they do not yet have wiki profiles. Being on the Thinkers50 list means their work has been vetted by panels and boards from universities, public companies, academia, and the public - there is no doubt in my mind that all 30 of these individuals should have a wiki profile. My plan is to start with three of my favorite thinkers from the 2019 Class - Tiffani Bova, Kaihan Krippendorff, and Lars Thinggaard. However, When I went to set up Dr. Krippendorff's page there was a note that I should reach out to you before doing so as someone in the past moved to create it and did not do a good job. Is there anything I need to do special in this case? Reaching out as instructed by the page before putting forth for creation. Cedarwaxwing15 (talk) 15:36, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Have you ever edited Wikipedia from any other account or accounts? &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 03:59, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
 * User: @Premeditated Chaos, No I havent, first timer Cedarwaxwing15 (talk) 16:10, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok, so to be clear, you have absolutely no connection whatsoever with, the person who created the original draft? &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 23:18, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Arb case/GS
I think you should be more and more and more careful to decide when you vote whether GS should desysop or not because 5 ArbCom members voted support and 5 voted oppose. Best wishes Hhkohh (talk) 15:46, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Fwiw, knowing PMC fairly well, I’m pretty confident that she knows this and wouldn’t have been elected to ArbCom if she wasn’t able to realize it. TonyBallioni (talk) 01:50, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Bizarre! :)  ——  SerialNumber  54129  06:02, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Requesting undeletion of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omid_16B
Hi,

We have found that Omid 16B page has been deleted in 2017 (Concern not notable). Until today we were unable to access this account to request undeletion. Please review this for undeletion as it has caused quite a big mix up for us as professionals. We strongly disagree that Omid is not notable, he produced so many accomplished records including remixes for Lana Del Ray, The Cure, Depeche Mode and many more, featured in so many magazines and articles and played biggest festivals, he is about to release his new album.

When someone search for Omid 16B on google you can still see information provided by wikipedia, but it is all mixed up with another band called Phaser. The main artwork and artist description belongs to the band but comes under Omid 16B's name. Songs (albums) of Omid 16B and the band is all put under one name and mixed together. It displays correct birth country, siblings but incorrect band member. It is very confusing for all our bookers and clients and has caused a lot of misunderstanding and mistakes. I believe this has happened because Omid 16B has been deleted and he is still very searchable name and as google hasn't got wiki source anymore it provides information of another person who happens to share artist name with Omid 16B. (Please note Omid as musician has worked under many aliases and Phaser is one of them).We are looking to update his page with up to date information and imagines if this will be published again. Could this please be reviewed asap. Will be waiting for an update. Thanks. PA to Omid 16B

Omid16b (talk) 20:35, 8 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Hi, sorry for the delay, I've been busy with other matters.
 * Just as an FYI, you should know that accounts are not allowed to be shared. I'm bringing this up because you've referred to yourself as "we" a couple of times in your above message. If there is more than one person accessing the account, you should make one for each person instead.
 * Notability on Wikipedia is judged in accordance with our notability criteria. We have specific criteria for musicians that provide a helpful guide as to what we consider notable in that field. If you have reliable, in-depth, independent sources that would indicate that Omid passes our criteria, by all means post them here for me to take a look at.
 * We don't control what Google presents when it returns search results, so unfortunately there is nothing we can do about that. It seems to me that if lacking a Wikipedia article is affecting your client's career, he is probably not notable enough to have one at this time. That being said of course, if you have sources that indicate otherwise I'm willing to re-evaluate. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 04:42, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi and thank you for your response. I'm PA to Omid16B and Im the only one who has access to this account. Omid does not manage this account himself neither he has log in details. I Hope thats not a problem. Please take a look at link which contains his draft press kit. It should cover quite a few points from notability criteria for musicians. If you need me to narrow down the list and post just few sources please let me know. On Omids EPK there are just some of many interviews, magazine front covers, etc if you click on it it will direct you to official source. https://egle868.wixsite.com/omid16b He also appears on wikipedia 'Notable British Iranians' and is the only person who is not highlighted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Iranians#Entertainment Google Knowledge Graph (KG) pulls out results mainly from Wikipedia. Omid has his own box on the right side and bio & art cover belongs to somebody else. Please see here https://g.co/kgs/6Utg67 Like I mentioned before it is to do with his Alias 'Phaser' and as google could not find anything else on Wikipedia it used closest match. Otherwise there are lots of other sources to find correct information, but google chooses wikipedia! There is also issues on many other pages for example - "BBC" which is trying redirecting to Omids biography via wikipedia but link is not available anymore so it takes to 'Notable british iranians list'. it makes it look like person just vanished on those many articles that used wiki as reference. https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/6a863547-3ed9-4dc6-8e3e-4842535c547b He's been busy recording his album for last 3 years therefore now when we are organising album tour it came to our concern.

Hope all above works and clarifies the situation. Anything else, please let me know. Thanks. PA to Omid16b (talk) 00:18, 12 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Sorry, no, but interviews are generally not considered sufficient sources to support a claim of notability, because they are not independent secondary sources. What we look for to support a claim of notability are in-depth pieces (in-depth meaning more than a short paragraph or two) that discuss the artist or his work, which are published in publications that have reasonably broad audiences, and are known to fact-check / be generally accurate in their reporting. If you have any sources that would meet those kinds of criteria, please post them and I can review them, but right now what I've found and what you've posted is not sufficient. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 06:05, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

I have looked trough requirements for notable musicians (in this case Omid is a composer - DJ), please consider interviews for this type of musician as most of the interviews firstly discusshis work (release, event, track) before they go into questions. This is the most common approach in this kind of field. More sources bellow.Hopefully this should work now. Thanks

Dj Mag is one of the biggest Dj magazines in the world and Omid was on front cover twice, I'm surprised this not considered notable. He also appeared on many other magazines but it would have to be scanned, but here is a few. https://jp.juno.co.uk/products/dj-magazine-vol-4-no-54-feat/293025-01/ http://danreidphotography.blogspot.com/2010/01/dj-mag-front-cover-sos.html http://omid16b.com/51278423_10157349474656495_6615589584031973376_n-2/

Links (all these pages are big within underground music industry) https://thewaveformtransmitter.com/2017/11/06/on-the-radar-16b-b4lp/ https://newsflash.bigshotmag.com/features/56989/ https://mn2s.com/news/dj/omid-16b-appears-mixmag-best-iranian-djs/ http://rickyleepotts.com/2011/02/next-up-from-bedrock-omid-16b.html https://www.residentadvisor.net/reviews/3535 https://djmag.com/content/omid-16b-bedrock-double-header https://mn2s.com/news/label-services/omid-16bs-lana-del-rey-remix-hits-1m-plays/ https://mn2s.com/news/dj/omid-16b-balance-selections/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zta_IotStRo https://www.residentadvisor.net/news/8312 https://thewaveformtransmitter.com/2017/12/12/waveform-live-001-omid-16b/?fbclid=IwAR2sfgU-EAt0ZyhG_ch2dQ_dmRFy4b6qo_gfPhRLU107uSaMJkUEDyZBQK8&utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=buffer185f8&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml2uB_WYrtQ&t=294s https://mn2s.com/news/label-services/sexonwax-reincarnated/ https://www.residentadvisor.net/reviews/2122 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UztS9P8o-H8 https://www.residentadvisor.net/reviews/663 http://wickedstyle.neural.it/2017/12/16b-b4lp-ep-part-2/?fbclid=IwAR3ug6no7VipoBwdRqFcxzoOCe41YM616fdOVZzJF19HkaBahl0QSMqyWDk https://www.residentadvisor.net/reviews/952 https://www.ibiza-spotlight.com/night/reviews/2012/interview_omid_16b_i.htm Has released Lana Del Rey remix on his own Alola Records label. https://www.discogs.com/Lana-Del-Rey-Blue-Jeans-Video-Games-Omid-16B-Remixes/release/4261572

BestOmid16b (talk) 11:23, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I've restored it and nominated it for deletion at Articles for deletion/Omid 16B. You're free to weigh in there with an argument for how Omid meets WP:NMUSIC. It would be best to clearly identify yourself as his PA if you comment, just so everything's above board. My advice would be to pick a few (3 or 4) of the best sources you can find about Omid and link those at the AfD, rather than dumping every possible link like you've done here. Best to avoid YouTube links, as they add nothing to a notability claim and will likely be ignored. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 16:16, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the tips. I assumed you need as much as information as possible which proves notability. I'll jump on another thread you added me, thanks.

PA to Omid16b (talk) 00:02, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I have posted a comment at Articles for deletion/Omid 16B, as I feel I may be one of the best-qualified editors on Wikipedia to talk about this subject. Richard3120 (talk) 17:33, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

With regards to the Feb '09 orphans being just over 5,000...
...Patrick sums up my feelings!  SITH   (talk)   09:22, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Gaahhhhd, I feel like we're so close but still so far. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 15:56, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * We'll get there. Probably.    SITH   (talk)   03:31, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 * All I want is to be the one to hit the delete button when the category gets emptied. I want to screenshot that shit, print it out, and mount it on my wall. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 04:24, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

HeadKrack
Hello. Can you please move this deleted article to draft space? I'd like to see what was there and if I can merge it. There's also been some more coverage since the close, although nothing huge. Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 13:42, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
 * , I've put it at Draft:HeadKrack. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 16:09, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much. FloridaArmy (talk) 16:35, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Cheers :) &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 16:38, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

List of Zimbabwean musicians
Hi, I saw that you reverted my edit to List of Zimbabwean musicians. I personally disagree with this decision for several reasons. First, you said that putting a large number of red links into a list article is not helpful, especially when they all come from one man's obituary. The article in question comes from The Herald, the oldest and one of the biggest newspapers in Zimbabwe, so I feel that their names being included in a publication of such prestige means that they are notable. Furthermore, red links exist for a reason, so that people can see which articles need to be created. I think red links are especially useful when dealing with topics related to Zimbabwe and other small, third-world countries, which do not receive the same level of coverage on Wikipedia as the Western world. Even minor musicians in the U.S. are well covered on Wikipedia, whereas even major artists from many non-Western countries do not even have articles yet. This does not mean they should not be included on Wikipedia lists. I am also disappointed that you decided to revert my changes because adding more notable musicians was only one aspect of the edit. I also alphabetized the list according to last name rather than first name, as is standard. Furthermore, several of the new names I added were in fact not red links, but blue links; now that work is lost. You asked me not to reinsert the content, and I respect that, so I am bringing the issues I have to you. If you have a response I am happy to read it. Jgefd (talk) 02:08, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Generally, per the common selection criteria for lists, stand-alone lists should not have redlinks. Merely being mentioned in a publication - no matter how large or prestigious - does not support a claim of notability. The Herald article you cited was an obituary for one artist which also listed a great number of other artists without discussing them in any depth. Trivial mentions are not evidence of notability; that is really basic notability stuff. If you think those artists deserve articles, by all means write them and then include them on the list, but until then, they shouldn't be on the list. I'm sorry reverting your other work, but that is kind of the risk you run by dropping a huge pile of redlinks into an article while also refactoring it entirely. I'll revert to and manually pull the redlinks from your version, but I really wish you'd have not done that in the first place. &spades;PMC&spades; (talk) 02:33, 8 March 2019 (UTC)