User talk:Sergecross73/Archive 58

User still getting personal after being asked not to
Hi Sergecross. A while back, the user 1Sire and I disagreed over whether a song by Cardi B was a single or not, on her article. Upon reverting me on that article, he said in an edit summary, "if you've ever been to an English class you'd know one digit numbers are written out" because my prior revert involved (unintentionally) undoing other changes. Anyway, today, after I warned him about his edit warring with another user on an article I have watchlisted, Pills & Automobiles, he's strung together a bunch of ridiculous Australian cliches in his reply on his talk page. It's petty and unnecessary, and the user clearly hasn't listened to me after I asked him not to get personal the first time. Now he's saying I'm "offended" (I'm not, but that doesn't mean it's okay for editors to do it) and "too sensitive". Can you please remind this user that it's not okay to do this? Thanks.  Ss 112  20:01, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi Sergecross :) After multiple times of fixing and reverting those edits yes I wrote "if you've ever been to an English class you'd know one digit numbers are written out", however it was a general statement and not directed towards only him but the multiple people who were making that simple mistake. And as I told Sean earlier I was not attacking him, his charterer or his nationality, but I can't control how people feel so if he's offended and sensitive over it, it's his God given right I guess. 1Sire (talk) 20:33, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh and let me reiterate again, I wasn't warring with anyone, we went back and fourth a couple times communicating thru the history page it didn't last longer than three edits :) 1Sire (talk) 20:37, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * This is not about being "too sensitive", "offended" or my feelings. I've heard all of it before. I'm not personally bothered. However, it's a personal attack by Wikipedia's standards (per WP:NPA, "derogatory phrases based on [...] nationality"). We're all well aware of the definition of edit warring, and you didn't break 3RR, but you edit warred with Hayman30, who asked you to take it to the talk page ("You can edit war without ever breaking 3RR"). You're still not getting it.  Ss 112  20:40, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Again I wasn't warring with Hayman30, I made an edit, he reverted it. I reverted his and explained why I was right. And he reverted me again. I did another revert and told him to read the article for promotional recording, and he disagreed and told me to take it to the talk page and I left it at that. Now please Sergecross, do you think I was in a edit war just then? 1Sire (talk) 20:53, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Jist follow WP:BRD, and comment on content, not people. Whether your comments were meant to offend or not, it's safe to say that they certainly didn't help progress the discussion, so they weren't really constructive. Seems like another issue that will largely be solved if you both just stay clear of one another. There doesn't seem to be an active dispute between the two of you, so please, both if you just stop. Sergecross73   msg me  21:08, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * This wasn't an editing dispute between 1Sire and I; it was between 1Sire and Hayman30 on Pills & Automobiles. I merely sent 1Sire a warning as I didn't think they'd heeded Hayman's warning, which is when they responded as they did.  Ss 112  21:11, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I know, that's why I was saying you guys can disengage now. Warning have been issued, the reverting has stopped. It's all been handled now. Sergecross73   msg me  21:49, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Help with commonname move
Hi! So I recently played through Yakuza Kiwami and started looking at the articles about the Yakuza series. I was going to move Ryū ga Gotoku Kenzan! to Yakuza Kenzan because of WP:COMMONNAME, but the redirect has an edit history so I can't do the move myself. Would you mind helping me with it? (If you agree with the move, of course.)--IDVtalk 13:33, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem. Done! You probably already aware, with working in the same sort of subject area (Japanese video games) as I do, but you might get some heat from some passerby's editors or fans complaining that "it's not the true name" or whatever, but I agree that it's the correct course of action per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:USEENGLISH. Sergecross73   msg me  14:09, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks! No one has complained yet about me moving Ryū ga Gotoku: Kiwami 2 to Yakuza Kiwami 2 last month at least... I guess it helps that the "Yakuza" name is well established and is what the fandom calls even unlocalized games in the series. By the way, I do find it kinda funny to refer to "Use English" when moving an article to something like "Yakuza Kenzan" - you can argue that "yakuza" is a loanword, but that title sure is Japanese.--IDVtalk 14:36, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm glad you don't have issues, it seems like its come up multiple times with a number of JRPG titles I've created or maintained over the years. And yeah, haha, I know what you mean about USEENGLISH. I hesitated to mention it, due to the very reasons you mentioned above. Might not even been the right thing for me to reference, but even if its wrong, it gets to the spirit of what I'm talking about, if not the letter. Sergecross73   msg me  14:41, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Monolithic update
Hi. Since you seemed interested in my work for the Monolith Soft article, I'll give you an update. I've pretty much rewritten it from the ground up, cited everything I could cite, and generally expanded and trimmed what needed expanding or trimming. I based it around the Insomniac Games article, so I think it should stand up to a GA review it it comes. If you want to add anything, you're welcome. Also, several of the references there can also be used in their respective games' articles. --ProtoDrake (talk) 12:55, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Awesome! I'll give it a read through later today, and see if I have any input on it. You usually do such good work, I imagine I'll probably just have a couple minor tweaks here and there. Sergecross73   msg me  13:00, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Update: Read it. Very nice work! I left my comments on the article talk page, in case anyone else wanted to chime in. Sergecross73   msg me  16:59, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Watch Dogs (series) listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Watch Dogs (series). Since you had some involvement with the Watch Dogs (series) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. 176.17.86.216 (talk) 06:27, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Bemani
I meant to talk to you about this ages ago but I didn't remember about it until the Konami template discussion. The article Bemani is confusing to me. Is it the name of a Konami division or is it the name of the branding of Konami music games? Just need to get clarification about it in order to edit it correctly. Iftekharahmed96 (talk) 16:52, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not entirely certain, as I've only historically read about it in passing here and there, and reading around, some other sources are confusing with their wording of it, much like the respective Wikipedia article. But I think it's just in reference to the series/brand of music games. I spot checked a number of the entries, and it seemed like variants of "Konami" were always listed as the developers. If it were a division, it seems like they'd be listed as developers, right? Sergecross73   msg me  17:12, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * That's what I'm thinking too. Should the article be edited as a brand article as oppose to a company article? Iftekharahmed96 (talk) 18:16, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if it were me, based on what I know at this moment, I'd rework it to be more how we handle series articles, explaining it was once an alt name for BeatMania series, (Bemani = Beatmania, if you hadn't noticed yet) and eventually was applied to all rhythm/music games by Konami. Sergecross73   msg me  18:31, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:23, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * I have reason to believe you too are a sockpuppet. Let's see what a CheckUser has to say first. Patient Zerotalk 10:46, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * No need - his user page openly admits that unblocked his other account, and he writes just like Arep. It's another DUCK situation. Sergecross73   msg me  13:10, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed - thanks once again for your help. Patient Zerotalk 08:47, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Sergecross73
Ok Dgtws (talk) 00:27, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

RSN
Now the thread is archived. I wanted to see if you agreed with removal of EDM Sauce across wikipedia. Excelse (talk) 11:00, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * As you say, I don't believe its a reliable/usable source on Wikipedia, and no one seemed to oppose that notion either. So, there's two ways that things are handled like this. One is to erase it from existence on Wikipedia. Another is merely just removing it as you come across it through casual editing. Its up to you if you think a dedicated effort to remove it entirely is warranted. I usually use the latter approach though. I wouldn't stop you from the former though. At the very least, we can add it to the "sources to avoid" section of WP:MUSIC/SOURCES, to discourage it future use. Sergecross73   msg me  12:36, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * That's better. Excelse (talk) 05:06, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Revert edits to a template that have impaired functionality
Hi Sergecross. Koavf has made a change without consensus to Module:Track listing that affects thousands upon thousands of pages and has removed functionality for many different parameters, including making headlines invisible. Can you please revert this change? It's edit-protected, so I can't, and a discussion should have been had for a controversial change anyway. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module:Track_listing&diff=prev&oldid=803962576  Ss 112  00:46, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * You should start a discussion at Module talk:Track listing, and probably reach out to too. -- ferret (talk) 00:48, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It's already been undone by Koavf himself.  Ss 112  01:42, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I would have advised starting a discussion too, but regardless, one has been started at WT:ALBUMS, which some good input, so it looks like all is well. Sergecross73   msg me  12:55, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * - No problem, thanks for your help too. I've been trying to work with that editor for a while, but I've run out of patience - there seems to be a real WP:CIR issue there. Let me know if you ever see them socking again, I wouldn't put it past them... Sergecross73   msg me  15:36, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Will do. Some people never change - I completely empathise, as I've had to deal with a similar sort of editor in the past. Patient Zerotalk 10:12, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Jax 0677
Funny coincidence that we messaged Jax for his AfD nominations at practically the same time. I'm glad it's just not me who sees it. -- Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 23:25, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw that too. Thank you, hopefully that shows that it's not just me who has an issue. Sergecross73   msg me  23:39, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Onyx (hip hop group)
Can you help me with something? I tried to remove "underground hip hop" from the genre field of Onyx (hip hop group) because it isn't sourced and because the article says how Onyx had mainstream success back when their first album came out. I tried to discuss it on the talk page and someone keeps refusing to agree to have underground hip hop removed from the genre field and I pointed out how underground hip hop isn't sourced. The only sourced genre in the genre field is hardcore hip hop. Can you help? Statik N (talk) 20:53, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I left a note, though it seems you're both pretty far removed from arguing about the right things, like sourcing. Sergecross73   msg me  21:57, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Andy question

 * Just a question about Andy: could he be related to the Dog and rapper vandal? It looks like a lot of the IPs blocked there made similar edits to his. (Like ) JOE  BRO  64  21:43, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The IP Joe linked above was blocked by Graham87 as Dog and rapper, but definitely appears to be the LTA we around WP:VG know as "Andy". I've never seen anything from Andy that looks like Dog and rapper, but if there's a connection its worth exploring. Any thoughts? I believe Katie or Bbb looked at Andy for me once, but I don't remember which user talk page that discussion happened on. Or is this just a chance crossing on the range block? -- ferret (talk) 21:48, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Looking in the Sonic 1 revision history, I found this as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/2607:FB90:1808:EF27:42C7:21AF:B837:F1AA JOE  BRO  64  21:53, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * That does not like like Woof! Rap Rap to me. Katie has looked at those ranges before, and I think DoRD has; it's a big range, from what I understand, and it is best if I stay out. But yes, that does not seem like John (cause he has a name too) to me. Drmies (talk) 21:55, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The 2607:FB90/* IP addresses are definitely Andy. I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago here: User_talk:The1337gamer. I was rollbacking his edits when he was IP hopping frequently on this range months ago. I haven't looked into this Dog and rapper vandal so have no idea if they are related. Keep in mind that there are numerous different long terms vandals that exhibit similar behaviour: Andy, Zachary, Mario/Sonic hoax vandal, the Macy VG idiot, list goes on and on... --The1337gamer (talk) 22:09, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * There's even a report on WT:VG regarding a new vandal that changes the release dates on some video game articles. Not sure if it's something worth looking into. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 22:14, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Ye, I've been rollbacking that vandal over the past week. I added most of the Category:Cancelled video games subcategories to my watchlist to keep track of him. --The1337gamer (talk) 22:23, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Andy's not just on Wikipedia alone, either. I found this when I was doing some research after getting Knuckles' Chaotix to GA, since I'm considering working it to FA. JOE  BRO  64  23:45, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Andy is everywhere, all over Wikia too. -- ferret (talk) 23:55, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's a huge range with lots of vandals. Graham 87 02:48, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Whoa, looks like I missed a lot in my...12 hours away? Looks like much was addressed, but my thoughts:
 * As The1337gamer points out, there seems to be multiple sets of socks that are obsessed with adding fake or unverified release dates on Wikipedia. Could be the same person, could be different, but either way, the best way to combat it is just to revert and report them to me. (or Ferret. Or Salvidrim. Or any other willing admin. But I've got a huge tolerance for reverting and blocking. You can always report to me.)
 * While it may be irritating to clean up, the fact is, I think we do a good job - very little of the vandalism ends up sticking, and much of the time its removed very quickly. What the editor has in persistence, they lack entirely in common sense and subtlety.
 * If you don't have it already, WP:ROLLBACK does help combat it easier.
 * I did not realize the problem was also at Wikia. At least its not an "Anti-Wikipedia" type thing, it seems.
 * I still don't know how to do range blocks, and honestly, the stuff seems pretty complicated, so I'm not sure its really something I'm working towards short-term.
 * Thank you all for the help on this. Sergecross73   msg me  12:39, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

One More Light (song)
Can you check non-reliable sources? 183.171.183.157 (talk) 13:02, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I suppose I could - but was there something in particular you had concern over? This article was not something I was previously writing or maintaining, so I'd be kinda going in blind here... Sergecross73   msg me  13:06, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Goosebumps (Hall of horrors)


A tag has been placed on Goosebumps (Hall of horrors) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section R2 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a redirect from the article namespace to a different namespace except the Category, Template, Wikipedia, Help, or Portal namespaces.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Stefan2 (talk) 12:03, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I've taken care of it for you. Thanks! Sergecross73   msg me  12:22, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Did Theory of a Deadman sign to Atlantic?
I always thought they were a Roadrunner regular. Did they leave Roadrunner and sign to Atlantic? If they did, I guess they've went the pop route (oh wait, they've always been poppy). Makes sense since they've been in Nickelback's shadow for so long. In all seriousness, do you know anything about Theory and their current label they're signed to? ULTRA-DARKNESS  :) 2 CHAT 19:27, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * - Yeah, when I created the "Rx (Medicate)" article, I initially put down Roadrunner Records, since I recalled them being for them in the past, but then I noticed a number of sources mentioned Atlantic Records in passing, so I changed it to Atlantic for for Rx and Wake Up Call. FYI, Blabbermouth mentions it here, and Billboard mentions it here - both are RS's, and Billboard is one of the highest authorities on music, so it seems likely to be correct. Sergecross73   msg me  19:48, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Sonic Forces

 * Hey, uh, I was wondering if you actually saw that video about Sonic and Tails. He said it was confirmed by Sega, and made a previous video on it. No one believed him, and so he made the one I mentioned to prove he was right. Could you research it?172.1.94.255 (talk) 18:52, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Vapo(u)rware
Thank's for that on the Vita list, the misuse of vapourware is a personal bugbear. I'm currently cleaning out Category:Vaporware video games. It seems that anything that has a bit of development hell gets thrown in there, regardless of it being cancelled or released. - X201 (talk) 16:32, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem. I think I thought to remove it because I saw you removing the term on the same grounds recently. I think Sonic Xtreme or something else on my watchlist. It's like...I knew the definition of vaporware, but hadn't really noticed how its was wrongly be used here and there until I saw you point it out... Sergecross73   msg me  16:42, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Now That's What I Call Music
I wanted to ask your opinion on the page Now That's What I Call Music! discography, if you've got the time. It's a catastrophe, to put it lightly, but I'm at a loss. I have no clue what to do with it. I watch the page for unsourced future releases, which get added by IP users constantly, which is a repetitive pain in my everything. The real issue is that it's just a plain mess, it's a massive list, and most (I'd say nearly all) of the albums in the list don't have an ounce of notability. At the very least, the length needs to be limited, but to what extent, and what is the limit? I would be asking this on the talk page for the article, but there's really no chance of a worthwhile discussion there, and I'll admit, I saw you were on WikiProject Albums and that convinced me to bring this up to you.  Bruzer Fox  18:19, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Hey there, . Yeah, I tend to split my time between video game and music areas. I can try to look into this some in a bit. While I'm well-versed in the music related stuff, I don't tend to do a whole lot with discographies other than linking to album/song article's I've created, and I've never worked much That's What I Call Music, or discographies for compilations for albums like that, so I don't have any immediate answers for you. But at the very least we can trim down a bit I'm sure. Sergecross73   msg me  14:34, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Honestly, it doesn't help that I'm not terribly familiar with the exact subject either. I ended up there while casually browsing music articles. Really the only users who seem familiar with Now are the same users who got it this long to begin with.  Bruzer Fox  16:46, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – November 2017
News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2017). Administrator changes
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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:49, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Draft
American rock band submission. Jb@incredco.com

Pls reach out when u can. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:3355:D450:1156:B10B:18F2:11A0 (talk) 19:09, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite sure I follow. Are you saying you want me to look over a draft submission or something for you? You can just tell me which draft right here... Sergecross73   msg me  19:31, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Draft page deletion
I must have not did the correct way to move a draft, but could you delete Draft:The International 2017? It has no purpose with the article being in mainspace (and has since the summer). ~ Dissident93  ( talk ) 20:40, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Per WP:RDRAFT redirects from drafts to mainspace are usually kept with a rough consensus to delete after six months. The page can be kept as a redirect to the main space page until that six month grace period is over. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk &bull;&#32;contribs) 20:43, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Well it's been unedited (before today) since July, but I guess it can work as a redirect for now. ~ Dissident93  ( talk ) 20:48, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Empty categories
One other quick thing, if I may. I have a user discussing empty categories on my talk page. They regularly tag empty categories for speedy deletion, and I just wanted to quickly ask you if empty sockpuppet categories are normally deleted. It was my suspicion that the categories are left open, so that it will be there if more suspected socks are found. They also regularly tag year-based categories, such as Category:2023 in Ecuador, which from what I can tell, are more often empty than not, but which seem like good categories to have anyway. They said that administrators regularly approve these deletions but I couldn't find any evidence of that, or any clear policy on this. I just wanted to know if that's true or not.  Bruzer Fox  04:07, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I apologize, I'm not real familiar with the intricacies of our category system. I personally haven't really had any real use for them, I just slap on the most basic ones for the articles I create. Sorry I haven't been a ton of help with your requests so far. Feel free to keep reaching out to me for help, don't let this deter you. Sergecross73   msg me  19:27, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It's quite all right, it's not a big issue anyway. To their credit, a lot of the categories seemed very unlikely to get articles, but I figured it would be good to have some kind of policy to back me up since he was starting to get kind of territorial about the issue.  Bruzer Fox  20:04, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sometimes it really feel likes categories and redirects are very similar in that way - I think there's probably a ton of implausible/faulty ones out there that technically don't align with policy, but there's just so little visibility to them that much of the time, no one ever even notices them. And if no one even notices them, then they're really not hurting things much, so I don't usually concern myself with it too much. That's just a personal stance though. Sergecross73   msg me  20:16, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

User:Patricia CV
Serge, while I see you once left this user a warning about name-calling and unsubstantiated accusations, I'm not convinced she took your notice seriously by doing more of the same with Ss112 again lately. Please keep an eye on her in case it happens again, and I wouldn't be surprised at this point if it leads to getting blocked for harassment. Snuggums (talk / edits) 20:25, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for notifying me and warning the user. I also reminded them that they'll be blocked if they do it again. Please let me know if you notice it yourself. Thanks! Sergecross73   msg me  20:35, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Sure thing! Snuggums (talk / edits) 21:25, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi! Drive by editor here - I just came across this edit Patricia CV made while patrolling recent changes. The edit summary refers to Ss112 as a "donkey". I saw the warnings you and Snuggums gave Patricia CV yesterday when I went to add a warning to their talk page; unfortunately, they don't seem to have sunk in. Time for a block? Marianna251TALK 23:18, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up. I agree - she violated my final warning, and so she's received a block. Sergecross73   msg me  02:47, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi, could you help determine the best genres and lead genre for Big Dumb Face?
You like to work on genre-oriented issues on band articles right? I'm not so good with that. Could you look at the sources on Big Dumb Face, determine what is the best genre for the lead, see if the genres listed in the infobox are properly sourced and see if any other sources might be available that might source genres for the band? TheRealBoognish (talk) 19:41, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I can help, though I'm pretty busy and stuck on mobile the next few days, and I'm not all that familiar with the band beyond its existence, so I'd have to do some looking into it first. Sergecross73   msg me  23:35, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

dumb question
Hi Sergecross73. I have a quick and possibly dumb question. I have two open questions on the Template talk:Infobox CPU about minor changes to the infobox that I think would help. However, it seems like a sleepy place and I haven't heard back. I'm all for WP:BEBOLD but have never edited an infobox, and appreciated that it might be dangerous for a novice to edit. Do you have any suggestions on who to ping for guidance? Dbsseven (talk) 21:43, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Start at Template:Infobox CPU/sandbox. I've just synced it up to the live version. Make your changes there, it won't affect anything. In order to test them, visit an article that uses the parameters you've changed. Change the template in that article by adding /sandbox to the name, then click Preview. This will allow you to preview the change without saving any edits to the article. -- ferret (talk) 21:46, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Perfect, just who I was going to recommend anyways. (I figured you'd respond before I could even ping you.) Sergecross73   msg me  21:47, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm muddling my way through now. This is a bit confusing, but thank you both for the help. Dbsseven (talk) 22:14, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I think I got it done without breaking anything else. Thank you for your help again and ! Dbsseven (talk) 22:37, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem, any time! Sergecross73   msg me  01:01, 22 November 2017 (UTC)