User talk:Shyamal/archive23

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GFDL
There is a discussion at Commons_talk:Featured_picture_candidates#Proposal:_Change_to_FP_criteria_for_new_nominations:_disallow_.22GFDL_1.2_only.22_and_.22GFDL_1.2_and_an_NC-only_license.22. -- Jkadavoor (talk) 09:34, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Scientific racism
Hi, regarding this edit, please could you explain why scientific racism is a form of phrenology? I think that you have got the cart before the horse. I'll likely have more to say about the edit but let's first clear up what appears to be a basic misunderstanding on either your part or mine. - Sitush (talk) 18:28, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for asking, it seems I did misplace that clause. Actually I think the term used should be "pseudo-scientific racism". The method practised by Risley and Thurston was by way of measurement, mainly of the skull although anthropometry is a more generic term referring to all body measurements. The result however was that measurements of the skull were used to classify people mainly to find caste and tribe affiliations and indirectly in some applications such as by the police to identify what were termed as "criminal castes". I agree that anthropometry of the skull and phrenology differ slightly and have made some alterations in the text but in this case you will see that there was evidence that Thurston was involved in phrenology. Both his ideas on intelligence through facial features and his interactions with the Madras police on the value of (mainly skull, due to the Bertillon system in use) anthropometry to identify "criminal castes" qualify as phrenology, though I agree with not calling him a phrenologist as he does not seem to invoke the founders or their writings. Several authors have noted Thurston's obsession with measuring the heads of people. See also Shyamal (talk) 02:35, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * PS. It may not be phrenology if we use its restricted definition and pseudoscientific-racism seems to be the more appropriate broader term here. Shyamal (talk) 05:24, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. You raise an interesting point and I'll have to check my notes now. For example, I'm not sure about Thurston but fairly certain that Risley (whose article I am likely to take to FA before too long) also used those bizarre colour charts for comparison of skin pigmentation etc. - Sitush (talk) 05:30, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, btw, I think the term you are looking for is probably craniometry rather than phrenology. - Sitush (talk) 05:32, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Not really. But I do see the difference between measurement per se versus application related to underlying "theory". Shyamal (talk) 05:36, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

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Barbet Image
Hello,

I had included a shot of a White-cheeked Barbet under the respective page but find it removed. The photo in question is of a Barbet with blue under the tail unlike the light green usually seen. I am mysef not sure about this colour difference or what it signifies. For this reason I felt the photo was of importance. Link to photo: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:White-cheekedBarbet.jpg

Swardeepak (talk) 11:43, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Sandeep, under some lighting condition the tail feathers does appear a bit bluish but I think it is rather too saturated in this image. The picture however has a very disturbing background and there is little that it adds to in terms of value addition to the text and not having it in the article should not be taken personally. Would encourage you take more pictures. A close up of high resolution would be very useful unlike this rather small (600x800) image. The one perched on the trunk on the other hand is far more informative about the habit of the bird and is of a higher resolution. Your image of course does add value along with the others in the growing gallery on commons and I am sure someone might find it of use. Please do include the location and date on all your bird or other organism images. Shyamal (talk) 11:48, 31 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello, thank you for your reply. No sweat abuot the removal of the image. I do have clearer shots of the bird clicked with a DSLR but I liked that shot as it clearly shows the birds whiskers and also helps us understand that it is not too shy in nature considering how close it approaches human habitation. As for the blue colour, I am sure it has nothing to do with lighting as all my shots of these birds show the same colour on the tail feathers. Both the bird books that I have do not mention this and neither did I see anything on the Net. Anyway thanks again. Swardeepak (talk) 06:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The tail feathers and even the wing feathers appear blue from below. The colouration is entirely derived from structure and not from pigment and the colour is entirely missing when viewed with transmitted life. You are right about it being more or less the norm - most images on http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=310 also show it. The average field guide tends to lack detailed information unlike the Handbook of Birds of India and Pakistan or the Fauna of British India volumes. Shyamal (talk) 09:44, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Papilio sakontala
Greetings Shyamal Papilio sakontala Hewitson, 1852 is missing from List of the Butterflies of India possibly due to a confusion with sakontala Moore which is a mimetic forma of Papilio polytes or so it appears to me.see Funet. Any thoughts? How are you? Best regards Robert Notafly (talk) 15:34, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Second thoughts on sakolanta - Globis has this http://globis.insects-online.de/species&tree_h=.Papilionidae.Papilioninae.Papilionini.Papilio.Menelaides.298.6317&sub=yes&tree_status=plus&tree_seq= ] view. I think I will add notes to the sakontala page as it appears as a species in the better known books (and not redirect it just yet). There remains sakontala Moore as a queston mark at least for me.
 * Thanks Robert I believe it is treated as the Andaman Islands' subspecies of Papilio polytes - see http://yutaka.it-n.jp/pap/10350010.html . Sorry for the delayed response as I was away in the field. Some interesting images coming soon... Shyamal (talk) 02:41, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Incones Ornithoptera
Good evening Shyamal Starting to use your excellent work. Here first .More later. No matter how good the photography gets drawings often have the edge and the layouts are lovely too. Must "fly" now Robert Notafly (talk) 21:00, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Ornithoptera larva
Shyamal We are lacking an image of the larva and pupa of this popular genus.Can you extract one from this? .Robert Notafly (talk) 21:55, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That would be Troides now. Perhaps File:OrnithopteraVictoriaePurkiss.jpg should be usable as is ? Shyamal (talk) 02:17, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

I actually prefer the whole plates, being none too keen on crops.The Purkiss plate I hadn't seen and it far better since the black body and red tubercle contrast is very clear.So many thanks. As to Troides see here for a cladistic approach. I'll get the paper. I'd like to see that cladogram. And at least there is something to see - in many works (oft-cited)the decision is based on the authority of the author not his argument.And the argument can be very weak however large the book - and I'd hate to lose the evocative term Ornithoptera. Chanced on this too Warm regards Robert aka Notafly (talk) 13:36, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Image for worker policing article
Hi, Shyamal! I noticed you put up a great picture for the worker policing article. I was wondering if the picture was depicting a worker attacking a foreign queen or a gamergate? I read the article about these ants in the references and it seemed like the worker ants attack gamergates. Perhaps you could write a paragraph in the examples section to clarify the picture? I think right now it's a toss up for me between the picture you have proposed and the one with the honey bee hive. I originally used the honey bee picture since honey bees are among the best known examples of worker policing and since it hasn't been used before on another article. However, that picture you posted looks pretty awesome...is it possible to switch the main picture in the taxobox on the original article to another so that the picture you posted is unique? If we end up using the honey bee picture, I'd still love to include that picture in the examples section. GenesBrainsBehaviorNeuroscienceKL (talk) 21:22, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The size and morphology difference between workers and queens in Harpegnathos saltator is very slight, however you can see the remnants of the wing pad showing that this is a queen rather than a gamergate. There is more on worker policing in this particular ponerine ant species at . Not surprisingly this photograph won an award. The interpretation in the caption that the worker is killing a "rival" queen is not reliable as the photographer only accidentally stumbled on the two individuals in combat (i.e. could well be a foundress). There should be no problem about reusing images on multiple articles in multiple contexts. PS: I notice that your article does not mention "queen policing". Shyamal (talk) 02:20, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

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Ten Year Society
Welcome! Nice to encounter another veteran that I've never bumped into. — Hex    (❝  ?!  ❞)   20:58, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi! Easy to miss others if you have your work cut out. Shyamal (talk) 23:27, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks Innotata ! Shyamal (talk) 02:13, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

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Birdanatomy
Dear Shyamal, Because I miss a real good picture to describe a bird plumage, I should like to add the Dutch translation of the terms in your image I should like to add 23: Eye stripe. Is that possible? I how can I make this illustration useful fot the Dutch wikipedia. I always have difficulties in uploading a transformed jpg. Maybe you can help me.

Thanks in advance and a merry Christmas! Henrik de Nie --HWN 13:34, 25 December 2012 (UTC) 1. Snavel 2. Kruin (indien alleen bovenkant van de kop, vaak heeft vogel nog een wenkbrauwstreep)(if only the upper part is meant, thus I mean crown in English) 3. Iris 4. Pupil 5. Mantel 6. Kleine vleugeldekveren 7. Schouder 8. Grote vleugeldekveren 9. Tertials en armpennen 10. Stuit 11. Handpennen 12. Buik 13. Bevederd deel van de tibia ("dij") 14.Verbinding tussen tibia en tarsus 15: Tarsus 16. Tenen 17. Tibia 18. Onderbuik (achterste deel: anaalstreek) 19. Flank 20. Borst 21. Keel 22. Lel 23. Oogstreep (als streep boven oog ligt: wenkbrauwstreep) ("eye stripe, if this is above the eye, eyebrow") — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hwdenie (talk • contribs) 13:34, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion. Have added an indicator. The use of numbers is to allow modification of the text for any language in the caption. Have included your notes in the file description. Feel free to modify for your purpose. A very happy new year to you too. Shyamal (talk) 04:01, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and I wish you a good 2013, --HWN 20:15, 26 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hwdenie (talk • contribs)

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Interested in helping ambassador a molecular biology course?
Hi, Shya﻿mal, I had a look at your OA profile, and was wondering if you'd be interested in helping me to OA a section of Molecular Biology for this semester (course officially starts right now). The course pages are here: Section 81 and Section 82. Right now I am the only one for both sections. I think ideally I could recruit three others, for two OAs per section -- then the work would be spread out and pretty easy, I think. It's not a whole lot of work, but the professor is not an experienced Wikipedian, and I do try to help her not only with answering student questions, but also with evaluations -- just checking to make sure the students did the assignments. Please let me know if you are available. Thanks! Klortho (talk) 05:17, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Chris, I would be happy to help, but only if a small set of specific articles/users can be allocated. I have not been able to keep up with changes made by large groups of students on a large cluster of articles as seems to be the recent trend with WEPrograms and will be able to give a more definite answer only if we can actually work out the mode of interaction in discussion with the group well before the editing frenzy begins. Shyamal (talk) 07:22, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Sarus Crane
Looks like a good faith edit to birdbox/cell caused the problem. Fixed. Bob the WikipediaN (talk • contribs) 19:05, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for the fix. Shyamal (talk) 02:18, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Editing typo
Hi Shyamal, please check your last edit at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Plants: you left a split-up url in it. Hamamelis (talk) 02:36, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Oops... fixed. Thanks. Shyamal (talk) 03:11, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Composite image
Hi! Would you care to share your opinion about the composite/single infobox image issue here? I would really appreciate it. Thanks! --Life is like a box of chocolates (talk) 01:08, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for asking. Responded thanks. Shyamal (talk) 03:31, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

No letters before my name
Yeah, I had to ditch that before it killed me. One day, but it won't be soon. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  04:35, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's too bad and hope it is just the final dissertation/thesis that is pending. Shyamal (talk) 04:31, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: February 2013
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Thank you (Western Kukri)
Whilst I don't have any particular ties to the article on the Western kukri I am glad to see your clarification for the comment about "white (in spirit)"! I am fairly new to copy editing, and so did my best to understand the article and improve it, but lacking a fuller understanding of the subject I was stumped by that particular phrase. I hazarded a guess that it would mean that the skin was white when preserved in spirits, but could not be certain. It has been niggling at me since!

By the way, would you be able to shed some light on the "1+2, or 1+1+2" reference? I had noticed some experts talk about scale formations as being 1:1:2 and so on, but couldn't work out if that was what was intended here!

Thank you again! — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnthonyW90 (talk • contribs) 11:50, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Mea Culpa, in the older days I tended to post the out-of-copyright descriptions from faunal works verbatim. They are brief and complicated for anyone other than herpers - the scale count terminology for temporals is not well explained - File:Char5_Temporals.JPG - it is about number of primary, secondary and tertiary temporals - the ones behind the eye after the post-oculars and above the supralabials. So it would be 1 primary and 2 secondary temporals or 1 primary and 1 secondary followed by 2 tertiary temporals. I will add it. Shyamal (talk) 12:10, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

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Dysoxylum malabaricum
Can you please lead to a site which can provide some imgs of the above species in Karnataka or Kerala? If you have the photos in your portfolio, please upload them to wikicommons. Thanks.
 * Will keep it in mind. Thanks. Shyamal (talk) 07:58, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Negros Fruit Dove
Hello again. I've been working on the Negros Fruit Dove article and was wondering if you would be willing to create an image for it. The species is only known from a single female specimen, and an image can be found here. Thank you so much. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 20:16, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Welcome back. Will try but it will have to wait a week or so. Shyamal (talk) 01:24, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. Thank you. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 01:54, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * When you get the chance, could I also trouble you for a picture of the Sulu Bleeding-heart? BirdLife has an image. Thank you, and no real rush. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 03:49, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the Negros Fruit Dove image. It looks good overall, though I have a few minor quibbles. Per Gibbs and HBW, the eyering should be about twice the size it is now and about the same shade of yellow as the undertail. The yellow wingbar stretches to where the wing turns upwards to the shoulder, and there aren't any hints of white in the belly- all the green areas are basically the same shade as the back feathers.
 * I'm also taking the Lāna'i Hookbill through GAN, and the reviewer raised a question about your image for the species. The hookbill (at least the specimen we have) had a white chin with a white arc coming off of it towards the eye (viewable in the picture you based it on), and the wing feathers seemed to have been more black with yellow edges than brown. I also wanted to thank you again for creating these; they really make the articles work when either there are no pictures of the species due to its rarity or when we cannot find a public domain picture, and I am in awe at your abilities to create these complex images. Thanks. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 18:49, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * "and there aren't any hints of white in the belly- all the green areas are basically the same shade as the back feathers." - I am reading this as "it should show more white on the belly" - I thought I shaded it down to grayish green on the underside - at least on my screen but have added more white to the lower abdomen now; the description says the feather bases on the underside are grey and show through in places, which I think would be more of a case with a ruffled specimen. I think any more bare skin around eye would be quite odd looking; the description says about 3 mm wide around eye. Will look over Dysmorodrepanis soon. Shyamal (talk) 02:36, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I think the hookbill and fruit dove look good, and the bleeding-heart might be my favorite of your artwork yet. It looks good from Gibbs, but Gibbs presents it at a weird angle so I'll check HBW at the library to confirm. Thank you. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 20:41, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Sataspes sp.
Astonishing. Newly emerged? Can you give the size? Warm regards Robert aka Notafly (talk) 20:28, 6 May 2013 (UTC) PS. I added a phrase here Wingspan which is measured in either of two ways. A graphic would help if you could manage it.
 * Hi Robert. This was in the forest, may be freshly eclosed. The identity is unclear it is the regular size of most Sataspes (on this photo the wing tip to tip would be about 10 cm), it could be a new species or a subspecies of S. tagalica but needs some other parts to be seen. (Dr Ian Kitching NHM has seen it and commented on it). Shyamal (talk) 02:00, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

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Pacific Swift
Inspired by seeing one of these in Suffolk a couple of weeks ago, I've started working this up to FA. I'm using IOC's treatment which splits off salimali, leuconyx and cookii as separate species, leaving just nominate pacificus and kanoi. I'm unclear what subspecies winter in southern India. Is it just the Himalayan species, pacificus or both? Thanks for any help,  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  06:27, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Rasmussen&Anderton (2005):v2:260 says Summer visitor in Himalayas leuconyx - some also wintering in Western Ghats. Tibetan kanoi may breed in northeast (Arunachal Pradesh) and also occurs in Assam. Shyamal (talk) 11:36, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Just noticed that we have kanoi split off and raised to species status on WP as Salim_Ali's_Swift! Shyamal (talk) 07:38, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * That's really confused me. According to this, Leader appears to have salimali as a split, as you indicate, but has kanoi/kurodae as a separate ssp, retained in Pacific Swift. The restricted range of salimali also doesn't appear to be the same as kanoi.  Jimfbleak  -  talk to me?  12:04, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Phew! Ok, have not see the original paper but the interpretation here is that kurodae now includes the population that went by the name of kanoi. So that would mean no Pacific Swift in southern India only Blyth's. Seems like the map should be changed then. Shyamal (talk) 13:34, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd used the Cornell update as a ref, but I hadn't really grasped the significance of the kanoi/kurodae/salimali bit, makes sense now. Yes, the point of the original question was to see if the map needed fixing. Chantler said the status of the birds in southern India was unclear, and on the face of it you would think that a form with the migratory capabilities of pacificus (eight or so records in the UK) would be regular in winter in the Indian peninsular. Thanks for that  Jimfbleak -  talk to me?  15:08, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi
Hi there, this is a test message from the RVS demo. Muscicapa (talk) 07:44, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Formiscurra
Gatoclass (talk) 17:07, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Red-bodied Swallowtail
Hi Shyamal. The genus Atrophaneura, the Red-bodied Swallowtails, has been split into a number of genera. To reflect this change it has been agreed to keep all former Atrophaneura species on the same article, renaming 'Atrophaneura ' to 'Red-bodied Swallowtail'. However, the name 'Red-bodied Swallowtail' is already occupied as a redirect to 'Red-bodied Swallowtail (disambiguation)'. In order to clear the name, I put a deletion template on 'Red-bodied Swallowtail', but this was overridden. As an administrator, would you would be able to solve this? JamesDouch (talk) 06:48, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Have made a move. See if it works for you, feel free to make changes. Shyamal (talk) 18:25, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Awesome, thank you. JamesDouch (talk) 01:05, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

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RV page
Hi,the people part of the project have also decided to add a section on natural history of Rishi Valley School.Soon we will put up information on the site itself.Hibiscus2581 (talk) 10:51, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

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This Month in GLAM: July 2013
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Some baklava for you!

 * And thank you for unearthing the biographical notes of a less-known Indian ornithologist bringing material from an even less known source languishing in a dark corner of an ancient and archaic organization of Colonial origins! Shyamal (talk) 12:56, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Rishi Valley
I reached out to Marcy of Rishi Valley and haven't heard back, if you are in touch with the school about its weekend WP project. The Rishi Valley School article is also having sourcing issues right now—I left a note on the talk page. Are you working with the school on this project? Perhaps you can suggest a sandbox page for them to use as a draft instead of working on the main article and potentially getting reverted and discouraged? czar &middot;  &middot;  11:19, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks User:Czar, I am in touch with them over email and will suggest the use of a sandbox. They do know about the referencing requirement and are probably going to add it soon. Shyamal (talk) 04:05, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for helping out that class! =) Do they also get significant penalties if they violate copyright? Best. Biosthmors (talk) 10:26, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
 * They are supposed to avoid getting there in the first place. Has there been any copyvio problem? Shyamal (talk) 14:14, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Not that I'm aware. I was just curious about the grading system. It's a "big deal" that can lead to substantial penalties usually where I've been to school. I was curious if this class was set up the same way. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 16:19, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
 * One of the guiding philosophies of the school is to avoid the use of grades or other competitive practices and instead inculcate personal values and ethics. This is meant to be a useful hobby course rather than one linked to grades. A lot about plagiarism and intellectual property has been discussed with the students. Shyamal (talk) 02:04, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Copyright question
Hello Shyamal. From some your edits I get the impression it's not all about birds :-). That's why I wondered whether I could ask you the following. Do you have any knowledge of copyright policies by the Survey of India regarding old maps (as in nrs 6 and 7)? There is nothing of the sort on Commons, I think. I'm a Dutch editor for WP, currentley working on The Great Trigonometric Survey in Dutch. Thanks, regards, Sander1453 (talk) 11:20, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks User:Sander1453! Those are truly truly fabulous maps. They would certainly make a great addition for Commons if the source metadata is properly indicated/identifiable. According to the Wikimedia Commons PD-India template anything before 1941 would be fair game under PD-India and anything published before 1923 (unless there is a very unlikely case for it being published or registered with US copyrights at a later date) would be eligible for PD-1923. Shyamal (talk) 17:12, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you Shyamal, that's most helpful. It clears the PD-issue, I think. I'll get someone over here to help me with the source data. Thanks again. Sander1453 (talk) 23:08, 4 September 2013 (UTC)