User talk:Stan traynor

Welcome!
Hello, Stan traynor, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:
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Europe 10,000 Challenge invite
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Speedy deletion nomination of "Taro (restaurant)"
Taro (restaurant), a page you created, has been tagged for deletion, as it meets one or more of the criteria for speedy deletion; specifically, it is about a company or corporation, but it does not indicate how it is important or significant, and thus why it should be included in an encyclopedia. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, and the guidelines for companies in particular.

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Thank you. David. moreno 72   10:27, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Babel
To the question on your userpage, try Babel. Cabayi (talk) 13:21, 18 February 2017 (UTC)


 * or to save effort, Global user page. Cabayi (talk) 13:25, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Women in Red World Contest
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Proposed deletion of Franco Manca


The article Franco Manca has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern: "Seems like a promotional article and already has been flagged for cleanup"

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Re: Nuosu transliteration of country names
Hello there,

I see you have left on the talk page regarding the Nuosu transliteration for "France". I think this particular country's name has already been standardized as "ꃔꇩ" (see here) so for the sake of consistency, we will stick to this name to avoid confusion. --JackonLee54 (talk) 05:31, 31 January 2020 (UTC)


 * @JackonLee54 The name is a bit problematic due to the meaning, see Chinese transliterations of countries such as ‘美国’, lit. 'beautiful country' over for example ‘煤国’ lit. 'coal country'. The word 'ꃔ' has extreme negative connotations in Nuosu society, literally meaning 'strangling' or 'choking' and changing it to ꃑ would avoid these problems and not change the phonetic sound of the syllable - it would only increase in pitch. ꃑ also means 'to set free' which would have positive connotations especially for France. The Nuosu internet is still in its early days and a name change would not be too hard, but in a few years once more people in Liangshan get internet access it will be impossible to change. I would STRONGLY advise for a name change but in the end as only one person I am powerless. The Chinese government will make an officcial transliteration guide once Nuosu gets more widely spread around on the internet and try to change it but it will likley be very hard for them. Also the website you provided doesn't work. Think of ꃔ as being like ꈁꃃꌦ/憋死 if you speak Nuosu/Chinese. As wikipedia is such a big site if we change the name the rest of the internet would hopefully follow. --Stan traynor (talk) 18:21, 31 January 2020 (UTC)


 * I am not saying that we should permanently stick to "ꃔꇩ" for France but rather there is not yet broad consensus amongst Nuosu Wikipedians (who currently do not exist yet as of this writing) to have the name changed. When there are more active Nuosu users there, you can make a name change proposal for "France" and if the vast majority of users approve of it then it should be okay. If "ꃔꇩ" does have such negative connotations then they probably would most likely agree with you. I do not know who translated the name for France and what his motives were.
 * Btw, if you want to use your own Nuosu transliterations for remote towns/villages that occur outside of China (eg. Kur%C3%B3w), feel free to go ahead and create those articles. You can be guaranteed that 100% of Nuosu people have never heard of that town in their lifetime....--JackonLee54 (talk) 09:39, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Bear in mind that the French_colonial_empire had once extended as far as Vietnam and Laos. The distance from Hanoi to Yunnan Province is roughly 600km. France was victorious in the Sino-French War. Can we realistically say that the Nuosu people were never aware of the existence of France and that the word "France" was never in their oral vocabulary? I guess only the Nuosu locals can help answer this question. --JackonLee54 (talk) 10:03, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I have no idea if the Nuosu already have a word for France, the only ones that they really have are ꂰꇩ for america and ꑱꉙ for English. Both of those have been standardised but nothing else has. There are 3 people with user pages on the Nuosu wiki, so let's say if 3 people agree to this name change it can go through. They all have at least beginner knowledge of the language apparently. 600km is also rather far when all terrain separating the Nuosu from the French was rugged mountains. I think the only way miguop and yithxop got into the Nuosu language was by American missionaries in the early 1900s, It's unknown if these missionaries introduced more countries (or knew the negative connotations of ꃔ） Stan traynor (talk) 15:04, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The French missionary Paul Vial did visit the Nuosu in Yunnan Province. Of course Nuosu Wikipedia is based on the Sichuan Yi dialect, and in the past, there were 165 French catholic missionaries in Sichuan, whether they had visited the Nuosu people or not we do not know. --JackonLee54 (talk) 05:21, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd imagine that they picked the name due to the sound, while not knowing the meaning behind it. Maybe the Nuosu just accepted it, or the current meaning of ꃔ is a neologism. Still think it should be changed. Stan traynor (talk) 09:29, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Mandarin Chorus Alphabet
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Your submission at Articles for creation: IPA non-pulmonic consonant chart with audio has been accepted
 IPA non-pulmonic consonant chart with audio, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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Thanks again, and happy editing! Artem.G (talk) 17:01, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Reordering sound tables
Hi! Why do you reorder table rows when your stated objective is only to condense them? –Austronesier (talk) 20:22, 9 June 2022 (UTC)


 * for consistency, mainly Stan traynor (talk) 20:27, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * For many languages, it is more appropriate to group nasals with the other sonorants (e.g. for phonotactic reasons), so one-sided consistency isn't actually desirable. –Austronesier (talk) 20:54, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, what phonotactic reasons would those be? Is there any centralised style guideline for table ordering?
 * (Also sorry for making about 50 table-condensing edits that also reordered nasals to the top) Stan traynor (talk) 21:06, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I could cite Indo-European, North Caucasian, Pacific Coast Native American languages and a couple of others where nasals structurally align with other sonorants. In Austronesian languages, they largely don't, but they don't align with stops either.
 * The very point is, there is no centralized style guideline for phoneme tables. As long the tables are good and based on reliable sources, they may look different in different articles. This also includes having separate rows for laterals and semivowels. –Austronesier (talk) 21:37, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll refrain from shuffling around rows (other than in the case of putting laterals and semivowels together when the only lateral is one of the voiced dental, alveolar and postalveolar lateral approximants, in which case it makes complete sense to just group them together and call them approximants.)
 * If it improves readability or condenses the table, I'll do it - otherwise I'll leave rows in their prior orders.
 * Thanks for your concern Stan traynor (talk) 21:47, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Terrible consonant tables on some articles about Spanish varieties
Sorry if this is rude but I know you've been fixing up a bunch of consonant tables, and a few articles on some Spanish varieties have some really terrible ones. Mexican Spanish and Peruvian Ribereño Spanish have giant tables that include basically every consonant allophone, and the table on Old Spanish just seems to be a mess (in part bc it tries to show a transitional phase in the development of sibilants instead of just showing the older system before those changes began). I'm mentioning these to you just because I might not get around to editing them anytime soon and you have more experience with this stuff. Erinius (talk) 16:52, 27 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Done. They were pretty bad tables. Stan traynor (talk) 11:17, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Mongolian
Hi - please could I ask that you refrain from adding any more traditional Mongolian, as you did at Mongolian calendar? You've done a one-to-one conversion from the Cyrillic, which has generated incomprehensible nonsense. The two systems don't work that way. I'm in the process of correcting it now, and quite literally every word is egregiously misspelled. Theknightwho (talk) 22:54, 23 August 2022 (UTC)


 * whoops Stan traynor (talk) 15:22, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

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July 2023
Please do not add original research or novel syntheses of published material to articles as you apparently did to Cantonese. Please cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. Stop adding "Sample text" sections made up of your own translation work. Binksternet (talk) 17:22, 24 July 2023 (UTC)


 * This is not my own translation work, this was taken directly from the UN website, I included a reliable source (the website) right next to the "Cantonese" label in the table, which you probably didn't see. Stan traynor (talk) 17:27, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Binksternet Additionally, I had sources for Mandaic, Vai, Fula, and Javanese. Rohingya and Ugyhur I forgot to include sources for, but these are just on the UN website and I can easily find them again. Yele and Kabiye were also cited, but I didn't add those sections originally. Stan traynor (talk) 17:43, 24 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Sorry! I was wrong: the UN says that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is "the most translated document in the world" and they list the translations. Binksternet (talk) 17:58, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
 * thanks, no worries, I've added sources to Rohingya and Uyghur Stan traynor (talk) 18:42, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Sino-Xenic Pronunciations
Hi Stan,

Sorry, still new to Wikipedia so I hope it's appropriate to use a talk page like this- I'd just like to say that I appreciate you adding in the mandarin pronunciations for the sino xenic pronunciations page, as I'm currently working on an infographic of sound correspondences between mandarin/cantonese/vietnamese, and it's hard to do so dabbling around sources on the web, so it's nice seeing it in one place. Do you mind if i ask, what source did you use; was it that frathwiki page? Or is there a wikipedia page out there with the correspondences? Thanks!!

Vu Tran The Tran Dynasty (talk) 22:14, 26 July 2023 (UTC)


 * hey, it's fine to use talk pages like this, I used the page Historical Chinese phonology (specifically the LMC -> Mandarin section) which will have the actual sources (that I should probably go back and copy paste into the sino xenic article) Stan traynor (talk) 22:32, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

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