User talk:Storye book/Archive 32

March stories
today: where I learned opera, + 3 women in one hook! - Those were the days ... -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:36, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Wow. You trained at the Dortmund opera house? And you met Caballe? Do tell me? How exciting! Storye book (talk) 10:20, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it was late when I worded that. No, I didn't train, I just learned about operas there, by watching, first time Lucia di Lammermoor, Gianni Schicchi + Die Kluge, Cavalleria + Pagliacci, Zar und Zimmermann, the above, Il trovatore (yes, in Italian which was like a revolution), Die Zauberflöte, Mathis der Maler, Madama Butterfly, La forza del destino, Eli - the ones I remember. No I wasn't in Glyndebourne yet. I saw Elisabeth Grümmer (and Otto Edelmann) with the other two (and not in the opening, just a later performance).
 * Yes, the real thing is so different from recordings, isn't it. Quite overwhelming. You are so lucky to have heard the greats in real life. Storye book (talk) 11:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I feel the same, and especially - with opera houses in Wiesbaden and Frankfurt rather close by - feel blessed by continued exposure to the greats. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:26, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I would have loved to have heard some of the great German lieder tenors in real life. Some of them achieve a great beauty of tonality. Storye book (talk) 20:30, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * yes! - Theo Altmeyer was wonderfully expressive even when he wasn't sure to hit all the high notes for Bach's St John. - today a woman, a 2016 DYK remembered (our conductor was courageous and called her to step in for a concert on short notice, and she was interested! - only had no time that day in 2013. We got Gabriela Eibenová who was also great. Girls and women sang how Bach arranged Pergolesi's Stabat Mater to a new text paraphrasing Psalm 51, last Sunday - very pure, pure joy. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:02, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Sounds beautiful. A long time ago, some adults, including me, were asked to join King's prep school, Canterbury, for the Faure Requiem. Singing next to the boys and hearing their beautiful voices so close was a wonderful and moving experience. Whenever I hear it, I think of them. Storye book (talk) 15:26, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I can imagine! Did you know who made the article GA? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:38, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Would you be interested in nominating Johanna Geisler for DYK? Other than for Manistina, I'd stay away completely ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:40, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm interested in nominating Johanna Geisler, but some things would have to be sorted out first - we have until 13th to nominate it, so we have a little time. I know you don't want to discuss hooks on the template, but maybe we could find something that you at least partially agree with, beforehand. Anyone who can sing Queen of the Night and get plaudits for it, gets my admiration. That is a great achievement in itself, but even more so when she had a difficult start in life. Another striking thing is that although Klemperer had to convert to Catholicism to marry her, they were still driven out of their country by the pogrom, and she lost her career because of that - but I'm not sure that we can use that? Another one which might suit you better is that she played all three of the protagonist's lovers in Hoffmanns Erzählungen? We're never going to get away with a full-blown Gerda-type hook, but I really would like to achieve a hook which is at least partly right for you. The article will need a minor tidy-up, which is OK - I can do at least some of that. We need a citation for the Legacy section, though. There is a bit of a worry that the article says that her voice is in the partial 1932 recording, but the version on Youtube does not include her voice. Storye book (talk) 16:56, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The 3 women in Hoffmann we had for Muszely, the driven out of the country because there is same Jewish trace in the family history was nothing personal for her, my hook would focus on Marietta (which gets the opera in focus that was everybody's favourite (two simultaneous premieres!) and then was banned by the Nazis. I saw it it Munich, and it's a treasure, deserving a link from the Main page much more than Queen of the Night and even Zerbinetta (the much more treacherous coloratura role, see Gruberová video if you haven't). I discussed a few things with SusunW (who wrote most of today's great TFA!), things that I want to add, possibly tomorrow. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:16, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you - there is hope in Marietta. I think we could get a hook past the dog at the gate, if it said something to the effect that she sang Marietta in the premiere of Die tote Stadt which was then banned during the Third Reich by the Nazis because its composer was Jewish. (Source for the reason for banning and when: here) Storye book (talk) 17:43, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hah. Just watched your link for Gruberova. No, I hadn't heard it. She makes it sound and look so easy. Amazing. Storye book (talk) 17:58, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes! - Johanna G.: I found the Klemperer bio, at least pages around 138 (her lovely pic), fun reading. I hope to find more pages and add, but not now = not today. - Whatever, I have two qpq credits free (on my user page), ready to use for a nom when it comes. I'd mention Klemperer in a Marietta hook. Unless we want to say that the Jewish-born composer-conductor wrote a mass when converting to Catholicism, which the two world-premiered (with orchestra) on their wedding day. It's more about him than her, though, she probably wasn't even Catholic. But highly unusual. A few weeks before the wedding she had told him that her "little sister" was her child. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:46, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I improved her article slightly, and think no more big surprises will come. I mentioned now the simultaneous second premiere, as something very unusual, with reference, - it says something about how eagerly awaited that piece was. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:29, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Update: I have grabbed the date and nominated the article (see article talk page), in case I am busy at the weekend and cannot do it - though I hope to be around. Please could you kindly let me know the name of your QPQ, so that I can add it? I shall check the article for any copyediting necessary, when you tell me that it is ready, though I am sure it will be fine. I have included a temporary hook as a placeholder, but if you could let me know any improvements, that would help. Cheers. Storye book (talk) 19:17, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I'll add the qpq and ALT1 and unwatch ;) - you can check now, until the move to Berlin. Hoping to find the second vol. of the Heyworth bio of Klemperer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:02, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the QPQ and ALTs. I have done some updates, but you have no need to look at the template unless you want to. Meanwhile, I have added a note to hold back any review of the nomination until you have finished improving the article. Please let me know when you have finished the article? Thank you. Storye book (talk) 11:49, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm done, sadly don't find the second vol. online. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:55, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Just letting you know that the nomination has passed DYK, although with a predictable compromise on the hooks. I know it's not quite what you wanted, but congratulations, anyway. Storye book (talk) 11:23, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for having worked that miracle. I read the review, and don't understand "all sources foreign or offline" while I see several pages of the Heyworth bio (in English), and the pages are linked! Do you see them? Just curious if Google treats readers not evenly? I hope the second ALT will make it. Without saying Marietta (or lead role, but why not the name which seems unique in operas?), it could be just some maid's role. It doesn't matter, but I'll never understand what would be so difficult in adding "as Marietta". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:25, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree, but we were only ever going to get a compromise. I have seen those citations which I clicked on. I think our friend may be in the Philippines or Hawaii, and if so that might explain the access problem. Storye book (talk) 12:33, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for supporting that the refs are visible not only to me. Could you please make a comment that it would be good to feature her in March, women's month. (A DYK from December is still approved but not shown.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:41, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I shall apply for Women's Month, so fingers crossed - there will be competition for that! Storye book (talk) 12:43, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you mean. It's about two more weeks with 16 hooks per day. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:17, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You are right, but nothing is ever certain. I have requested it. Storye book (talk) 14:42, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you - today we remember the 150th birthday of Max Reger, who saw the horrors of a world war right when it began in 1914, while others were still in high patriotic moods --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:08, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * BWV 1 today, and new pics, more of them tomorrow --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:19, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for those links. Your articles are always worthwhile. You may be interested in three articles which I've recently published, in that they are about German people; two musicians and one woman: Daniel Schwarz (bandleader), Otto Schwarz and Fridel Meyer. I have struggled to find wikilinks for some of their music, though. Daniel is remembered in Harrogate, and in Malcolm Neesam's history book, because he was loved as a musician, and because he died here. I have tried to find a picture of Daniel or his band, but failed. Storye book (talk) 08:49, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! - Sharing impressions from vacation on Madeira 20-30 March, pics now at 24 Mar from the peaks - slowly getting back ;) - even got a DYK approved during the time away, imagine. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:55, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Well done! Storye book (talk) 08:51, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Grove Road Cemetery, Harrogate
I've made a few changes to the article. Mostly minor, MOS fixes and renamed a section. Please let me know if you object to any of them. BorgQueen (talk) 09:11, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your edit, much appreciated. Storye book (talk) 09:35, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I loved reading these articles this morning, many thanks on your hard work and brilliant research. No Swan So Fine (talk) 11:52, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Storye book (talk) 13:02, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Soloists of the Alexandrov Ensemble
Hello sir! I really utilize and appreciate the article you have created "Alexandrov Ensemble Soloists" very much. But I wonder, how did you find out which soloist sung which songs? Do you recognize them by their voices or is there a source or sources you used in order to make a list? Idrisagazade (talk) 09:21, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of sources in the article (see the huge References section). I was guided to those sources by the Japanese Alexandrov Ensemble fan club in Japan, and by the late Leonid Kharitonov, who of course knew all of the old musicians. There were also experts in Moscow who could guide me to the right sources and information. Note that the article includes both Soloists of the Ensemble and Soloists of the Choir. They are all in the same article because some of them moved from one to the other. For example, Kharitonov started in the choir and became a soloist, and Victor Nikitin started as a soloist, then moved into the choir because being a favourite of Stalin was a terrifying thing, and he needed to get away from that. Stalin did continue to wave and smile at him, though. I was lucky to have so much help, because I have never visited Russia, and I do not speak Russian. However, the Alexandrovs arranged their music so that it always communicated perfectly without the audience needing to understand the words. I was told a lot of stories for which there was no acceptable citation for Wikipedia. Some of the soloists and choir members suffered terrible tragedies, and some were heroes in their own time. I have only researched the musicians who worked under Boris Alexandrov, who died in 1994. Most of those musicians that I researched are dead now. Much of the information on the page about the younger musicians was added by other editors. Storye book (talk) 10:32, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - April 2023
Delivered April 2023 by MediaWiki message delivery.

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19:51, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

April songs
My story today is about the Alchymic Quartet, - the last one from last year. - The songs are about vacation, continued. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:45, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That article is fun. Thank you for uploading it. And congratulations for yet another DYK - without being there! Magic. Storye book (talk) 08:51, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I made another exception from my DYK abstinence for Good Friday, - see my story today. Interesting to compare a hook 2023 style to one in 2012 (see my story today). - I sang, including chorales from Bach's greatest Passion. I recently listened to one by Homilius: a discovery! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:58, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Your hook for today (Good Friday) is acceptable, I think. I agree that it's not ideal. Still, the subject and the article are fine, and that's what matters. But you are lucky to have sung in and listened to some good music. I have sung in St Matthew Passion a few times, in the top sops (couldn't do it now - asthma, sadly). Which part do you sing? Storye book (talk) 16:46, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you, - alto, Vierne mass and pompous Widor tomorrow, Palestrina +++ tonight! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:19, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I have sung Palestrina, but not Vierne. Sounds interesting. I have mostly heard Widor on church organs. Fantastic. Today I have been photographing a beautiful 19th-century pulpit and reredos in a 12th-13th century abbey church. Beautiful. I'll upload the pics to Commons soon. Happy Easter! Storye book (talk) 18:20, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * returned from Palestrina +++ - The Widor Toccata used to be a staple postlude for Easter that church, but this time it will be Surrexit a mortuis (yt at the end), new to me --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:30, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * your Easter DYK is lovely and rich!! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:37, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Storye book (talk) 08:15, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I loved to see Marian Anderson and her story of protest against discrimination by singing on Easter Sunday 9 April 1939, also on the Main page yesterday. Impressions of Easter here and music here, 2 operas. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:43, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for those links. I'll have a look. Storye book (talk) 19:08, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * My story today, Messiah (Handel), was my first dip into the FA ocean, thanks to great colleagues. - a few pics added, one day missing --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:31, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Good old Messiah. When I lived in Canterbury, every Christmas all the local amateur and professional choir singers would gather in one of the churches and do a singalong Messiah. There was no audience, since we filled the whole space. It was so loud, you could not hear yourself sing. But we all loved it. The first and last night of the Proms is a bit like that - or at least it used to be, when I was there. Great fun. Storye book (talk) 18:02, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * An American friend of mine, temporarily working in Germany for years, returned to Ohio each year before Christmas for the annual Christmas concert of Messiah, which was always sold out so could support the other concert of the years that was not. Last time I sang it - it's less popular in German-speaking countries - was with Andreas Scholl, and you could hear a needle fall for He was despised. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:53, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

I am so proud that soprano Johanna Geisler had 2k+ views, + more than 1k for composer, opera and husband, each! - With the current DYK crew, I was afraid we'd have to say how she disliked when her husband slipped, with two kids present, that Clara wasn't their mother's sister but their sister. (So it's not in the article.) - I heard Aile Asszonyi as Elektra, and she is ready for DYK. The DYK check doesn't say so, but I expanded one sentence. Only when done I realised that there had been more but copyvio or too promotional or both. Would you nominate, or make a suggestion here? Sebastian Weigle said that A.A. is Elektra, - he can be seen saying that (in German), but only in the trailer. That's shortest. The reviewers had many words (also in German), but kind of flowery. Help? - Weigle's last premiere before he'll be replaced by a man not yet 30. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:31, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll have a look. Storye book (talk) 08:51, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. Storye book (talk) 15:31, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I'll provide a review for your next nom then ;) - Perhaps you can find a way to say that she was Elektra, not Klytemnästra or on of the five maids ;) - title role? ... or As Elektra in the opera by R.S.? - "Strauss'" may bnot ring a bell for many of our DYK geeral public. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:37, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. Don't worry about the review. I enjoyed doing that one - it was a nicely-written article. Storye book (talk) 15:51, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you! - today is the 80th birthday of John Eliot Gardiner. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:45, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that link to Gardiner. I watched (from the UK) the first broadcast of his San Marco performance of Vespro della Beata Vergine with the Monteverdi Choir in (I think) 1991. I managed to get a DVD of that same performance and broadcast, which I have almost worn out with repeated watching. It is just perfect. It is a strange environment with extremely sensitive acoustics in the top range, but it is so wide that it needs two organs and two choirs. I went in there and listened to the acoustics in 1964. The sound of one's quiet footsteps seemed enormous. The way in which he used that acoustic and that environment for that recording was astonishing. He is an extraordinary musical director and conductor. Storye book (talk) 17:28, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * yes - In Venice I went into the Frari, and two organists prepared for a recording on the two opposite historic organs! - The vespers were our best concert ever, DYK? - Gardiner will conduct on 6 May, DYK? - We'll sing a Te Deum that day (five years old tomorrow), in the presence of the composer (who played one of the organs for the Vespers) ;) - Thanks for telling me that I was right, that's music in my ears. I wish that I'm right about the infobox wars being over, - look at Olivier Messiaen (yesterday's story). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:48, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Gardiner and Bryn Tyrfel both took part in the 1991 recording of the Vespers in San Marco, and (thanks for the link!) I see that they will be together in the same space, at least, at the coronation. They both looked so young in 1991. Anno Domini, eh. I look forward to some of the music being decent on 5 May. Actually I love military band music, and I love the drum horses. They really thwack those drums and the horses don't flinch. But I think a military band has to be heard in real life to have its true effect - very moving - especially when they get kids running in front, playing with a stick, pretending to be the drum major. I remember in Canterbury in the 60s, the Queen's Own Buffs used to have the freedom of the city, which meant that once a year they would play their band through the narrow streets. A wonderful sound. So the coronation parade will be doing that, but big time. Pity the bands won't have the little kids running in front. Storye book (talk) 09:54, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 204, April 2023
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 21:30, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Special:Diff/1148519947
Can you explain this revert? It looks like the edit you reverted removed unsourced content, and then you added it back claiming the removal was unsourced, which makes no sense. * Pppery * it has begun... 18:18, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for alerting me to this. I had read the history or diff wrongly or something. My apologies. I hope I have now corrected my error, but please check that all is now well. All the best. Storye book (talk) 20:39, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Grove Road Cemetery, Harrogate
BorgQueen (talk) 00:03, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Thomas Charles Sorby
BorgQueen (talk) 00:03, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK for George Dawson (builder)
BorgQueen (talk) 00:03, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Richard Ellis (mayor)
BorgQueen (talk) 00:04, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK for David Simpson (mayor)
BorgQueen (talk) 00:04, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK for John Smith (banker)
BorgQueen (talk) 00:04, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Daniel Schwarz (bandleader)
BorgQueen (talk) 00:04, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Robert Ackrill
BorgQueen (talk) 00:04, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Fridel Meyer
BorgQueen (talk) 00:04, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK for John Turner (miser)
BorgQueen (talk) 00:05, 9 April 2023 (UTC)


 * So many bold links! You must feel rich now. BorgQueen (talk) 01:54, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you far all your hard work on DYK. A tenner like that must be a grear workload for you and others. Thank you again. Storye book (talk) 03:41, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Margery Jackson
Hello! Your submission of Margery Jackson at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there at your earliest convenience. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! 3family6 (Talk to me &#124; See what I have done ) 00:18, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Mantua dress
Gorgeous dress! I wish I could wear it to a party. BorgQueen (talk) 01:13, 15 April 2023 (UTC)


 * It looks even better in real life. It is in perfect museum condition. There are so many questions about how it survived. But I know no more than what is in the article. You wouldn't enjoy partying in it though. You couldn't move much, or sit down. And you'd need the pompadour wig to balance the look. And a corset. I really enjoyed photographing it though. Storye book (talk) 04:08, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh I'm too plump for any corset... I've digitally reduced glare from the picture BTW. Those reflections on the glass aren't as visible now. BorgQueen (talk) 04:19, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Re the overwrite: thank you for your kind intentions, but my photos are created that way for a reason. I take a lot of museum photos through glass, and at first I wished I could get into the glass box and photograph the items directly. However I now realise that my photos through glass, with reflections, are all part of the experience and interpretation. You are very welcome to upload your preferred version to a new filepage. As for the corset, I totally agree - these days we are all the wrong shape to start wearing corsets, and we would all hate the limited movement and feeling of suffocation. Thank goodness for the style rebellions of the 1820s and 1920s. I do remember some girls wearing light corsets in the 1950s, when the fashion was for tiny waists to contrast the full skirts, but, yikes. I guess there was no Golden Age. Peace and love. Storye book (talk) 09:41, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh OK. I'll do that. BorgQueen (talk) 13:20, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, much appreciated. Storye book (talk) 14:02, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * So would you prefer the original version of the picture for the Jackson article as well? The point of having such images in historical bio articles is to allow our readers to see the relevant historical objects and to help their understanding of a bygone era, with minimum distractions. Well, such glass reflections are certainly a very minor one, of course, but it is a distraction nonetheless. BorgQueen (talk) 14:20, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I disagree entirely with your point of view. The point of having an image of a dress from a bygone era in an obvious glass case (with reflections to prove it) is to show that we have both elements - old dress, new context. That also represents the biography subject herself. Jackson during her "bygone era" was a mocked, despised and caricatured eccentric. That was at least partly because her contemporary culture did not accept successful women who survived institutional obstruction and bullying, and did it independently. Today we can appreciate what she achieved, while still accepting her as a difficult character.
 * The mantua dress style gets reassessed all the time, and there they are in their glass cases for the modern gaze. Same for misers. They may have been awful people in many ways, but they succeeded in something which in their era was difficult to succeed in. History is a construct, always vulnerable to the modern gaze. We can have a good laugh at the heroes of the old days (like Gibbon), we can show compassion and try and understand the poor (like Trevelyan) or we can be postmodern and present both the old and the new view, with undoctored photos of what we can really see, not of what we think ought to be there.
 * Also, a picture of something slightly hidden is often more intriguing than something totally exposed. That is the difference between art and CCTV. Our modern point of view is not a distraction, it is the engine of our histories if used properly. In the discipline of history, we must be very aware indeed of our modern point of view, and keep it always in mind. We have put the dress in a glass case to preserve its material integrity. But at the same time, we have put it out of our own reach, so we cannot e.g. wear it to a party as we would all love to do, so as to really get to understand how it works as a piece of clothing. We are right to try to preserve the past in aspic so that we are not looking at something adulterated by modern precepts, but we must remain aware of the aspic.. Storye book (talk) 15:02, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The point of having an image of a dress from a bygone era in an obvious glass case (with reflections to prove it) Here I see a weakness in your reasoning. Simply reducing, not entirely removing (which isn't technically possible with the app I have) the reflections, does not destroy that proof. You see, what I did is a rather subtle enhancement to make the reader see the dress without so much glare. They still see and are very much aware that it's behind the glass. Your "Art vs CCTV" argument is irrelevant too, as I don't think that accidental reflection is somehow intended by the museum curator or design staff. Such a glass case is not some piece of postmodern installation art; it's purely protective. And the article isn't about the exhibition anyway.
 * I'd like to remind you: you do not own the article on Wikipedia, nor the photograph once it's uploaded to Commons with the license you chose. Please keep a more open mind when others seek to alter your work. BorgQueen (talk) 17:36, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * On the contrary. I retain copyright to the image, and in that sense I own it, even though I am sharing it. The licence instruction for the re-user (that's you in this case) says:


 * "attribution – You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use."


 * That means that you can upload the same image with your own changes to another filepage, but you cannot upload your changed version to the same filepage, giving the wrong impression that I endorse your changes. I do not endorse your changes when put there under my name. I am happy to see you upload the same image with your changes to another filepage, on which you make clear that the changes are yours, not mine, without giving the impression that I have endorsed your changes.


 * It is my photo that is the artwork, not the thing that the lens was pointed at. What makes it art is how I photographed it, and the choices that I made when editing it. That is not for you to change, under my name, without my permission. There are guidelines on Commons about overwriting other people's photographs. This is not about owning the article. If you want to change the picture in the article or with the hook, please upload your preferred version to another filepage and use that, as I have described above. There are conventions of decency on Commons. You can't go around changing people's photographs on their original filepage under the name of the creator, while giving the impression that they approve the change. There is a principle there.


 * Another reason why I feel that I cannot let people do that, is that their "improvements" sometimes spoil the picture in another way that they did not intend. For example, I once uploaded an old, out-of-copyright image of carvings on a hotel after it was bombed. It was faded, but could not be improved by editing without loss of detail to the bits where the carvings were. Someone came along and decided to "improve" it by vastly increasing the contrast, which made it clearer to a blind man on a galloping horse, but removed most of the pale, fragile detail of the stone carving (which no longer exists in real life, so the details mattered). I explained the problem and reverted the edit, and the other editor was cooperative and understanding, having not realised the problem. When you "improve" someone else's photograph, you can never be sure of the value of some of its elements, and one should respect the intentions and opinion of the creator of the original photograph. (I should add that one of us did upload the improved-contrast version to a second filepage; this was not about a dispute or about owning. It was about practicality and decency). Storye book (talk) 18:08, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Johanna Geisler
Aoidh (talk) 00:02, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

I avoid the swamp
I saw on my watchlist that you posted to Nikkimaria about ANI, and saw distress on the horizon. Short comments (because I'm hungry):
 * You missed a title for the comment on her talk page.
 * I think you have to mention her in the ANI post.
 * for background: User:Gerda Arendt/ACE 2014 (she lost her admin bit over that but it was a tedious unpleasant - and completely unneccessary - process on several noticeboards, - Boing helped most back then, but rarely edits these days)
 * I can tell you that it's not true that it will never end, but (for consolation): she's been on my talk a lot in 2013, and I didn't even notice when no longer but could recently report that she's no longer fighting. (Ice melting, see image with the star hyacinth.) Patience please. Just a few years. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:48, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

I looked at the article now, and saw her making changes in just two edits. My guess is that the admins in the great dismal swamp will send the post home as a content dispute. Perhaps just withdraw, and I'll watch the article? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:02, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Less hungry: common sense is to first approach an editor on their talk before going to a noticeboard. I'm on her talk also a lot ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:11, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Gerda, for your kind comments. I know you mean well. Sadly, this is something that is going to have to be resolved somehow or other. I cannot take this constant daily flak from one particular editor. You are very welcome to watch the article - the more the merrier! Storye book (talk) 14:35, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I am reminded of being tired of the predictable comments of one DYK reviewer ;) - I hope that it won't disappoint you that some of her changes make sense to me. - I often recommend not to put too much in one edit, but split into several, each with it's reasoning (because if I review one edit with 80% nonsense, I revert it all, even the 20% good, - happened yesterday, Annette Markert). Would that be a way to work? - In the beginning I had to ask Nikkimaria often what her extra short edit summaries meant, - and now I use them myself. - Precious has a fat header: "grant each other the presumption that we are acting in good faith". - In other words: perhaps strike in your swamp post what comes across as the assumption that she is following your edits. She is not, - she looks at all articles to be linked from the Main page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:14, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * OK. Storye book (talk) 15:19, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
 * quoting you ;) - "how many times do I have to repeat" that she wasn't hounding you, but doing normal main page quality checking, and you may express in the swamp that the impression of being hounded was wrong, and that you look forward to more collaboration with more detailed reasoning in edit summaries? - I misunderstood "OK", obviously. "grant each other the presumption that we are acting in good faith" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:46, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for caring. When I wrote "OK" above, I meant that I had followed your advice to strike out the words which implied that she was stalking me.
 * Much as I would like to follow your last advice above, I cannot, because not everyone here is so sane and decent as the people who responded to the incident post. Some time ago, I created a biography of a 19th-century pre-raphaelite artist whose gay friend had photographed him in a gay pose as an artistic exercise. That photo is now the only photo of him that is known. I could not change it. But an editor whose profile page showed him posed in camouflage gear next to army vehicles decided that I could not put a gay-looking picture on a biography page (The photo was harmless - a fully-dressed man with a cloth over his head and a flower in his hand - very hippy). That editor was changing sections in the article so that they no longer matched the offline sources, because he did not like those sections. He had an agenda. He reverted all my attempts to put the article right. So I left WP for about four years. Similar things happened after I came back, though not quite so crazy as that. So I don't think I can make a blanket promise to always accept without question all major edits on articles on my watchlist. It is a pity that that sort of thing happens, but it does happen. Acting in good faith is good as a general rule, but I can't do that when people try to remove photographs because they think they are too gay. The man in the portrait was not gay, as far as I know - he was married - but who knows or cares, anyway. I am happy to say something nice to a specific person, though.Storye book (talk) 16:05, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * My language, sorry. I was a bit in a rush (medical check, all ok), and didn't check that you did strike something, - thank you for that! I only saw the later replies mentioning hounding, and to me, stalking and hounding are more or less the same. Wrong? Thank you for the story however horrible: it explains a lot! - I didn't ask to accept edits that make changes, only accept that they were intended in good faith (which sometimes may be wrong, but better to wrong that way I think). I heard a lecture long ago in the same direction: when a person does something I don't understand and find crazy even, it may help to think that the person did the best she could do from her point of view. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:28, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes I agree with that, of course. But I too have been acting all along in good faith, just wanting to represent the truth according to the sources. On the other hand, I dont believe that the homophobic editor was doing his best, and I don't believe that I ought to have let him change the article in accordance woth his views. For that reason, I don't think that we can generalise according to "love thy neighbour" morality to the extent of letting people turn an article into a homophobic instrument. "Love thy neighbour" morality can do terrible harm if misused. As a schoolchild who was not religious, I still strongly accepted Christian morality, because is has long been a basis of our culture. At morning prayers at my school, we were told, "give without counting the cost", "turn the other cheek" and so on. I did that, believing that you had to do that in all, I mean all, situations. But young girls who do that get raped, mugged, assaulted, beaten up, and the perpetrators are never identified or punished. I learned that the hard way, and did not escape from murderous violence for thirty years. You have to stop turning the other cheek when the perpetrator turns on your children. There is a limit to Christian morality. Sorry, but I cannot permit immoral things in situations where I can speak against it. There are times when even religious people need to understand that turning the other cheek can be the immoral thing to do. Storye book (talk) 20:03, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes I agree with that. Only: my question was about understanding better what stalking and hounding means. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:57, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I guess each country defines its own stalking laws. But as I understand it on here and on social media, it means following every single move of one person obsessively, for a hostile reason.
 * On one biography of a woman, I was pestered by some people who initially wanted to delete the article. They failed, so they tried to minimise it, to weaken it for deletion. My every edit was reverted. One of them was following my every move, and on the article talk page they gave the others the url of my userpage/subpage where I prepared edits, so that they could monitor my every move too. When I complained about bullying on an admin's talkpage, the stalking editor replied within minutes, saying, "I am the bully!". Well, you can laugh or you can cry. But that was stalking.
 * Hounding in WP terms is defined in the guidelines somewhere. As I understand it myself (without looking at the guidelines) it means a hound contacting one person daily (or more often) in a manner which makes that one person feel anxious about being pestered, and soon makes them fear the daily pestering. The hound does not need to be overtly nasty to instil fear, but unspoken hints between the lines and regular repetition is part of the technique. Once they find that they can upset a person, they tell the person that their distress is all the person's own fault and they imply some kind of mental weakness in a patronising manner, then they keep going back and hounding the person again. This can go on for years. Hounding can include stalking for the purpose of finding ammunition to hold against the person, but thst is not the main definition of hounding. I am only describing here what I have experienced. Storye book (talk) 21:30, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for explaining, and bed time. I nominated a piece for DYK, imagine ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:46, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Well done! Glad to see you back in the ring. The reviewers will welcome you. Yes, I believe even that one. :-D    Storye book (talk) 23:02, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
 * All recent reviews went without a question, - what a relief! Tomorrow you and I will have our next in the same set ;) - I am no friend of the 12-hour-business but what can we do. My story remembered today is about a woman who sang what I made FA only the following year. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:31, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I am glad that your DYKs went well. I was interested in your Heinz Schwarz article, and I have added his name to the list on the Luftwaffenhelfer page. I think that the description that I gave him on that page may be too long - please tidy it up if you can? I don't know enough about German politics to shorten it myself. My father was a pilot in World War II, piloting ten different types of plane, mostly Halifaxes. They were all just kids. He was 18 when he joined up. He lost many of his fellow pilots. It was the same for the pilots of all countries involved. (Dad was not involved in Dresden, and was horrified by that event). It was not easier for the airbase ground staff of any country involved, and I can imagine what Heinz Schwarz and his colleagues suffered. Storye book (talk) 14:33, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for sharing family history. My dad was also young, and they wanted him for building weapons rather than fighting. That's how he got to know my mom, or I wouldn't exist. - I remember how he disliked CDU posters as un-black as the lead image ;) - so I chose the blackish one for Portal:Germany. - Congrats to your pictured DYK that will make the stats! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, your dad will be up there in the sky (or wherever they all are) thanking you! Yes, the old black and white photos were the best - especially the glass plate negative ones. Those old photographers had incredible skills. Storye book (talk) 14:52, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You were right about Margery J getting into the stats. I didn't expect that many hits! Storye book (talk) 06:11, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Category:Michael Astor has been nominated for deletion
Category:Michael Astor has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 16:30, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Replied. I agree. Please delete. Storye book (talk) 19:59, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Margery Jackson
Aoidh (talk) 12:02, 27 April 2023 (UTC) GalliumBot (talk • contribs) (he/it) 03:27, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red May 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 18:29, 27 April 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - May 2023
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20:21, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

DYK for Otto Schwarz
-- RoySmith (talk) 12:03, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for that one! Now Portal:Germany has Otto Schwarz followed by Heinz Schwarz ;) - Don't expect much of me until Monday, because I expect unprecedented 32 listeners to our tango concerts on the weekend, some of whom will arrive tomorrow, and some of those stay until Tuesday. The one having travelled longest came from Brazil, two from China, however, live in Germany, and the one from Switzerland has a wife from Poland. They don't come for the concert, of course, but will take it as an extra ;) - If plans don't change it will be on DYK on Saturday, - with the royal coronation, second set so actually when we'll sing it. The composer will come to listen on Sunday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:23, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the link. Good to see Otto Schwarz getting his recognition here at last, and Heinz too. I hope you have had a good weekend. Storye book (talk) 12:04, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * A very good weekend, possibly the weekend of the decade. Guests included 5 with a Wikipedia article (and a 6th was sick and couldn't make it). I had the good story on coronation day: the Te Deum we sang that day, and the following day we sang it for the composer ;) - And today we remember a composer who created music especially for us, commissioned by one of the 5 mentioned ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:30, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * more pleasant music (heard today!) if you click on songs - did you know a string quartet with two cellos (and no article yet in English? - Right after I boasted about the great people coming for my concert, two of them were awarded a newly created prize ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:07, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * more pics, also new memory and music, and ten years ago I had a DYK for my most serious article --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:18, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Pentecost was full of music, and my story today is that 300 years ago today, Bach became Thomaskantor, with BWV 75, writing music history. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:31, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry I have not had much presence on en:WP lately; I have been uploading all my useful phone pictures to Commons. When out walking, I often spot things which would be useful to Commons, but keep forgetting to upload them. So now I have a clear space on my phone for unplanned pictures for Commons. Thank you for all the great messages. Your work for WP is always fascinating. For me, J.S. Bach has always been a giant, overlording all the other composers. Yes, there are others who are equally superb, in a different way, but for me Bach is the only giant. Storye book (talk) 08:21, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 205, May 2023
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 11:34, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 205, May 2023
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 08:05, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Women in Red - June 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 09:17, 28 May 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - June 2023
Delivered June 2023 by MediaWiki message delivery.

If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an N to the column against your username on the Project Mainpage.

22:56, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue 206, June 2023
The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here. If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 18:31, 6 June 2023 (UTC)