User talk:TonyTheTiger/Archive 67

WikiCup 2012 January newsletter
WikiCup 2012 is off to a flying start. At the time of writing, we have 112 contestants; comparable to last year, but slightly fewer than 2010. Signups will remain open for another week, after which time they will be closed for this year. Our currrent far-away leader is, due mostly to his work on a slew of good articles about The X-Files; there remain many such articles waiting to be reviewed at good article candidates. Second place is currently held by, whose points come mostly from good articles about television episodes, although good article reviews, did you knows and an article about a baroness round out the score. In third place is, who has scored 200 points for his work on a single featured article, as well as points for work on others, mostly in the area of pop music. In all, nine users have 100 or more points. However, at the other end of the scale, there are still dozens of participants who are yet to score. Please remember to update your submission pages promptly!

The 64 highest scoring participants will advance to round 2 in a month's time. There, they will be split into eight random groups of eight. The score needed to reach the next round is not at all clear; last year, 8 points guaranteed a place. The year before, 20.

A few participants and their work warrant a mention for achieving "firsts" in this competition.
 * was the first to score, with his good article review of Illinois v. McArthur.
 * was also the first to score points for an article, thanks to his work on Hurricane Debby (1982)- now a good article. Tropical storms have featured heavily in the Cup, and good articles currently have a relatively fast turnaround time for reviews.
 * was the first to score points for a did you know, with Russian submarine K-114 Tula. Military history is another subject which has seen a lot of Cup activity.
 * is also the first person to successfully claim bonus points. Terminator 2: Judgment Day is now a good article, and was eligible for bonus points because the subject was covered on more than 20 other Wikipedias at the start of the competition. It is fantastic to see bonus points being claimed so early!
 * was the first to score points for an In the News entry, with Paedophryne amauensis. The lead image from the article was also used on the main page for a time, and it's certainly eye-catching!
 * was the first to score points for a featured article, and is, at the moment, the only competitor to claim for one. The article, "Halo" (Beyoncé Knowles song), was also worth double points because of its wide coverage. While this is an article that Jivesh and others have worked on for some time, it is undeniable that he has put considerable work into it this year, pushing it over the edge.

We are yet to see any featured lists, featured topics or good topics, but this is unsurprising; firstly, the nomination processes with each of these can take some time, and, secondly, it can take a considerable amount of time to work content to this level. In a similar vein, we have seen only one featured article. The requirement that content must have been worked on this year to be eligible means that we did not expect to see these at the start of the competition. No points have been claimed for featured portals or pictures, but these are not content types which are often claimed; the former has never made a big impact on the WikiCup, while the latter has not done so since 2009's competition.

A quick rules clarification before the regular notices: If you are concerned that another user is claiming points inappropriately, please contact a judge to take a look at the article. Competitors policing one another can create a bad atmosphere, and may lead to inconsistencies and mistakes. Rest assured that we, the judges, are making an effort to check submissions, but it is possible that we will miss something. On a loosely related note: If you are concerned that your nomination, be it at good article candidates, a featured process or anywhere else, will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on WikiCup/Reviews. However, please remember to continue to offer reviews at GAC, FAC and all the other pages that require them to prevent any backlogs which could otherwise be caused by the Cup. As ever, questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup and the judges are reachable on their talk pages, or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn and The ed17 00:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

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WP:GANR
Still no reply from Davanderluis. Maybe you should flick him an email just in case mine wasn't picked up. If you get no reply it would probably be best to find someone else to run/update the bot. I will ask for some advice on this front now. Cheers. AIR corn (talk) 01:14, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Peer review limits changed
Hi Tony,

This is a notice to all users who currently have at least one open peer review at Peer review. Because of the large number of peer review requests and relatively low number of reviewers, the backlog of PRs has been at 20 or more almost continually for several months. The backlog is for PR requests which have gone at least four days without comments, and some of these have gone two weeks or longer waiting for a review.

While we have been able to eventually review all PRs that remain on the backlog, something had to change. As a result of the discussion here, the consensus was that all users are now limited to one (1) open peer review request.

If you already have more than one open PR, that is OK in this transition period, but you cannot open any more until all your active PR requests have been closed. If you would like someone to close a PR for you, please ask at Wikipedia talk:Peer review. If you want to help with the backlog, please review an article whoe PR request is listed at Peer review/backlog/items. Thanks, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:54, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK nomination of ESPN Rise boy's high school basketball All-American
Hello! Your submission of ESPN Rise boy's high school basketball All-American at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:58, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Splitting Castle into season articles
There is standing consensus not to split the main episode article for Castle into seasonal articles; consequently your edits have been reverted. Please see the discussion on the talk page, and gain new consensus before attempting the split again. Please also see the following discussion, which might add some insight:. --Drmargi (talk) 23:37, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Online Ambassador, Spring 2012
Hi, TonyTheTiger! As you may know, the Wikipedia Education Program has instilled a new set of standards that courses must meet to officially join the program for the semester. As you can see, one of the requirements is that at least one ambassador or professor is a Wikipedian, as this should give students more access to helpful information about contributing to Wikipedia and creating good content. You are listed on the Online Ambassador page; are you still interested in remaining active this semester? Some of these classes will have to remove themselves from the program should they fail to meet these standards, but we would like to ensure that new students are receiving proper support during the editing process. Please let me know if you are still interested in mentoring these students this semester and/or visit the Online Ambassador talk page to select a course that still needs an Online Ambassador. Thank you! JMathewson (WMF) (talk) 19:48, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Tony! I'll make sure the professor knows you've joined the class. JMathewson (WMF) (talk) 20:22, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Stana Katic
That's not vandalism, I merely supplied the article's title, per online source. GregorB (talk) 22:38, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's because it's in Croatian, as indicated by the citation template. GregorB (talk) 23:56, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

You want a ref something DIDN'T happen that was not expected to happen?
You want a citation that something DIDN'T happen????? For something that didn't happen that wasn't expected to happen and which is quite normal for it to have not happened. You are aware that the Global schedule is like impossible to link to right? So how do you expect a reference that The Firm is NOT being changed from Thursdays in Canada? It is non-news to be not-moved to a different day. Also, it repeats Fridays at 7pm and Saturdays at 10am and 7pm on Showcase BEFORE its NBC premiere at 9pm. Yes, that means it is on 4 times in Canada before it is on in the US. Moving it to 9pm Saturday to simulcast would kill a show they have a stake in and mess with the HD repeats on Showcase and with the SD repeats on Mystery. And in case you are wondering, Zap2it has declared every CA broadcast on Global to be UNKNOWN episode each week, among those it even bothers to acknowledge. So, there was no citation given because there isn't one to give and the situation is a great big DUH, NO KIDDING, THAT WAS OBVIOUS. Canadian tv shedules are not dictated by American broadcasters, unless the Canadian broadcaster is Bell because they love being told what to do by big strong American broadcasters ;) How about you ask for a reference for the claim that no reference is available :P delirious  &amp;  lost  ☯ ~hugs~ 05:40, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 * In response to your message on my talk page, Bell is a push-over but Shaw tends to be less of a push-over when it comes to their programming and American broadcasters saying 'this is how we are going to do it'. See that episode of Combat Hospital that went unaired on ABC but which was shown in Canada as an example. In fairness, it seems there is one mention of The Firm in Canadian press which i have since found. TV Guide Canada. But having read the article she wrote i found she made so many generalisations and had almost no idea what she was writing about that she simply played up as much as she could the poor ratings on NBC and assumed that meant the death of the show. So i read a couple of other articles from here from the last month. She is a total idiot and if i were her boss she would have been fired. According to her PBS is a Canadian network.  delirious  &amp;  lost  ☯ ~hugs~ 08:00, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 * In belated additional response to that second query you asked on my talk page, I remembered there is the channel schedules for each of Shaw's channels somewhat buried in their press-oriented site. If you want something more comprehensive or fancy then you are in the sky with Lucy and her diamonds. It doesn't come right out and say that Shaw won't continue simsubbing the show but rather presents the cause for why they won't be. And yes, the Global schedule is available for 23 February and it is "Chapter 9". And with NBC holding back a week, 'til the 18th, that means "Chapter 7" will have shown in Canada a massive 7 times before it appears on NBC stations. Simsub with US or seven-times scoop the US? Yeah, pretty easy decision that is. delirious  &amp;  lost  ☯ ~hugs~ 15:02, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Jabari Parker
I finished the review for now. Other than the date thing I mentioned, none of my suggestions about the prose are make-or-break issues, just my opinion. Looking forward to passing it. --Coemgenus (talk) 20:07, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

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Jabari Parker PR
I closed the Jabari Parker peer review. Thanks for the heads up, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:21, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

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Re PR question
It is OK to use PR for such questions, although I see you have gotten a more detailed response on Nikkimaria's talk page. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 02:34, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Four
Thanks, I wasn't even aware of the closeness of the Four award. I remember finding out about it long ago but slipped my mind since.-- Will C  01:58, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for GAN review
Thanks again for reviewing the ACLU article, at Talk:American Civil Liberties Union/GA1. I know it is a huge article, so it is real chore to review it. Just FYI: I'm in the WikiCup competition ... I don't have a chance of winning, but I am trying to avoid the humiliation of getting eliminated in the first round :-)   The ACLU article is the only submission I have this time period, so I need to wrap it up before I leave on RL vacation 22 February.  If we could wrap up the review by then, that would be great!   If not, no big deal.   Thanks. --Noleander (talk) 05:25, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

collapsible option
if you add collapsible option then you need to add ' | state = ' or similar as well (like this). otherwise you are adding documentation for a feature that is not supported. thank you. Frietjes (talk) 15:53, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * another option would be to make a bot request at WP:BOTREQ and ask for someone to have a bot run through all transclusions of the collapsible option template and add this feature if it doesn't exist in the template. I'm sure there are many more than just the ones that you added. Frietjes (talk) 16:12, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * see Bot_requests. there are fewer than 3000, so it shouldn't be a problem.  I'll do what I can today. Frietjes (talk) 16:31, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Re: Sucker M.C.'s
Very simple. Sucker M.C.'s is a Run–D.M.C. song and is categorized under Category:Run–D.M.C. songs. The category of Run–D.M.C. songs is a child category to Category:American hip hop songs, which in turn is a child to Category:Hip hop songs by nationality, a subcategory of Category:Hip hop songs. Therefore, every Run–D.M.C. song is already categorized as a hip hop song by default when placed in Category:Run–D.M.C. songs. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 00:56, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, that too. :) --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 01:04, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for ESPN Rise boys' high school basketball All-Americans
Materialscientist (talk) 08:44, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

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Re: IWALY
Hey, I'm sorry I didn't answer! I was so focused on editing other pages that I didn't even read. But you can revert it, that's not a problem. - Saulo  Talk to Me 14:50, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

script for you
I wrote a script for you. you have a few ways to install it, depending on how much you trust me :) I won't be offended if you don't trust me :)  once you have installed this, you will see a TTscript button in the toolbox on the left side of the browser window, just under the 'Special pages' link. when you press that button, it will add to the template, and add (or modify) the state line at the top of the template. it will also fill out the edit summary for you. you will still want to click on 'show changes' to make sure it didn't screw up. if it does screw up, you tell me which page it screwed up on and I will fix the script.


 * Method 1 (least paranoid)
 * Step 1: Copy and paste to contents of User:Frietjes/vector.js into your Special:MyPage/skin.js page (which will probably redirect you to User:TonyTheTiger/vector.js if you are using the same skin as I am).
 * Step 2: There will be some instructions about how to refresh your browser cache, e.g., pressing ctrl+R or something depending on your browser.


 * Method 2 (somewhat paranoid)
 * Step 1a: Copy and paste the contents of User:Frietjes/TT.js into say User:TonyTheTiger/TT.js
 * Step 1b: Copy and paste to contents of User:Frietjes/vector.js into your Special:MyPage/skin.js page, but change the 'Frietjes' to 'TonyTheTiger' so it points to your local copy.
 * Step 2: Same as step 2 in Method 1


 * Method 3 (more paranoid)
 * Step 0: Ask someone you trust (and knows something about scripts) to check my script first to make sure it's not malicious.
 * Step 1-2: same as steps 1a, 1b, and 2 in Method 2

let me know if you have any problems, or if you like the script, and want me to write more for you. we can't edit other user pages that end in .js for safety, which is why the second two methods are the more paranoid versions. however, if you need help, you can have an admin edit those pages for you. Frietjes (talk) 23:04, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I just checked your User:TonyTheTiger/vector.js and it looks like you are using some other scripts, so you can just add the line from mine to the end of yours. Frietjes (talk) 23:09, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Two things to try, (1) move it to the top in your 'vector.js', so that it gets loaded before the other scripts. it's possible that one of your other scripts has a bug, which is causing things to stop loading before it gets to the one I wrote.  If that doesn't work, you can also try temporarily removing all the other script commands.  after each time you make changes to 'vector.js', you will need to 'reload' your cache.  it should appear in the toolbox as 'TTscript' when you are editing a page.  if none of that works, then tell me which web browser you are using and I will try to test it myself in your particular web browser. Frietjes (talk) 15:39, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject U-M
Heya Tony. Give a look at Talk:University of Michigan. Cheers mate,   A rbitrarily 0    ( talk ) 04:13, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

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Wikipedia US Education Program
Hello I am the Campus Ambassador/Regional Ambassador for Indiana University. I see that you have signed on to be the Online Ambassador for one course at Indiana University. Would you be willing to also be the OA for the Economic Development course too?

Etlib (talk) 23:11, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Online Ambassador
Thanks for signing up to be an OA for them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Etlib (talk • contribs) 00:37, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Issues addressed at ACLU GAN
Thanks for continuing to help with the GA review of ACLU. I believe I've addressed the latest issues at Talk:American_Civil_Liberties_Union/GA1. Let me know if anything else needs to be done. --Noleander (talk) 15:32, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for making a second pass. I've addressed all the items, except one:  you ask about "current year dollars" for a $500,000 fundraising effort in 1977.  The sources do not give current year dollars.  I'd be happy to insert that value, but I'm not aware of a tool to convert from 1977 $ to 2012 $ ... is a tool available for that? --Noleander (talk) 17:39, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * ... never mind: I just found the tool in Bobby Orr .. I'll take care of it. --Noleander (talk) 17:41, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, it is all done. Thanks for your patience. --Noleander (talk) 17:45, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Delray Brooks
The DYK project (nominate) 21:18, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Sucker M.C.'s
Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:48, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/We Belong Together (Randy Newman song)
Hi. I've reviewed Template:Did you know nominations/We Belong Together (Randy Newman song). There is an uncited fact in the article. Cannot be fixed by removing as article will be length short. Can you fix and comment on the nomination so the DYK can be good to go? :) --LauraHale (talk) 06:43, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

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Four Award just now
Hi mate, tks for that, however I think you mean for John Balmer, not Turning Point (2008) -- plus the article name didn't show up in the box itself... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:12, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Mad Men episodes
Thanks for the notice. I started creating these articles thinking it was a worthy yet neglected subject, hoping maybe others would join in as well. Recently I haven't been very Wikiactive, but if the spirit moves me some time in the near future, I'll make sure to have a look at these! Lampman (talk) 03:21, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Frasier episodes
Space_Quest_(Frasier) I didn't create this page and I can't really be of assistance. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:38, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks for the Four Award for the 1907 Tiflis bank robbery article. I was very happy to see that I could take it all the way up to FA. Hope you enjoyed the article. Cheers. Remember (talk) 13:40, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

ANI
I have replied at ANI. When EPPE started running reports on night checking his archived talk pages and checking his block log to use against him he effectively hounded night back. Night started it no doubt but EPPE then provoked him. They are as bad as each other.

ANI
I have replied at ANI. When EPPE started running reports on night checking his archived talk pages and checking his block log to use against him he effectively hounded night back. Night started it no doubt but EPPE then provoked him. They are as bad as each other. Edinburgh  Wanderer  19:05, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

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Cheers episode article suggestions
Thanks for the poke/reminder/suggestion! I haven't done much TV editing in a while (I did some 30 Rock stuff, but that was ages ago), and really I've taken a step back somewhat (obviously) on Wiki-editing in general while in law school. Staxringold talkcontribs 13:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Red Tail Project
Tony, despite your insistence that templates are the "proper" citation style, they are not either recommended nor mandatory, but since you insist on using them even though they are malformed, I will comply and rewrite the data within them. FwiW, the rewriting of "buggy" templates is an extensive job, it is often easier to rewrite them into text; it took hours to repair; your revert took nanoseconds. Bzuk (talk) 12:42, 24 February 2012 (UTC).

The date field is the problem with the citation templates in the first place; the developers have linked the date of publication to the author not to the publication and it takes a massive amount of resorting to convert the templates to read a date convention that is logical to a reader. We need to discuss before getting any more back-and-forth edits. I do have some major concerns over the stylistic aspects of the editing, that can be further elaborated on the talk page of the article.

Dates given in a "popular" format rather than the established historical or academic format are always problematic. The reason not to use ISO dating is that it is not read as d-m-y in many parts of the world. In aviation articles, there has been an effort to make the article readable and consistent in style. From an Wiki MOS statement: "Formatting of a Wikipedia article reference list is a secondary detail, and there is currently no consensus on a precise prescribed citation format in Wikipedia." MLA style is the most widely accepted style in the world and certainly is not excluded in Wikipedia.

As a former reference librarian, and presently an author and editor in the trades; I know that providing citations in bibliographic format is an area that is difficult for most authors. As an author and a 30year+ librarian, I have been exposed to many differing styles and formats. Most publishing style guides utilize the MLA (The Modern Language Association) Style for identifying research sources. The very simple form of this style is the tried and true: "Author. 'Title.' Place of publication: Publisher, Date. ISBN: (optional)." The academic or scientific citation style that you have adopted is not generally used in school, public and other libraries. See the following website (one of countless digital aids available) for a primer on this bibliographic standard: <.

Since I do Wikipedia editing as a diversion from my other work, I tend to spend little time and give articles only a cursory examination. If there is a very minor error such as a misplaced comma, I "tweak" the article and I don't usually elaborate on the change since it will show up in the history note on the article. As for citations, I rely on the MLA (Modern Language Association) style which is the world's most common bibilographic style and one that is accepted by Wikipedia. I have been utilizing this citation style in my own writing and in the cataloguing that I carried out in my other life as a librarian. I know that the standard today for library cataloguing is to simply download an entire MARC (MAchine Readable Cataloging) record form an established library but I continued to be a curmudgeon and relied on "scratch" editing which I still apply to Wikipedia work today. Basically it follows the old format of: Author. Title. Place of Publication: Publisher, Date of publication. (with variations to satisfy ordering and researching stipulations, usually ended by including an ISBN (international standard book number) and at times, page references). There are some subtle variations of the MLA style to facilitate multiple authors, articles, multimedia and other questions. Sorry for being verbose but I will make a point of stopping to clarify some of my edits but when it's merely a spelling, sentence or grammatical error, I will still give it a "tweak."

Further- the style employed for note citation is the Harvard style which one other editor had begun to use and even though it works well with the MLA style, it is a separate system. Basically, the first reference is completely cited and all following references are provided in a brief format: "Author(s) Date, page."

I have yet to find a Wikipedia citation template that is properly formatted and although the developers have had an opportunity to revise or rewrite the templates, I tend to work out a more simple, manual system that mimics the output of the template. Citations should have the following:
 * Author (last name, first name). Title (of book). Place of publication: Publisher, Date. (Page number and ISBN/ISSN is optional.)
 * Referencing Magazines or Journals works much the same way as books or other reference sources. Here is the style guide:


 * Author (last name, first name). "Title (of article in quotation marks). Title of magazine or journal (Volume, Issue number, date). Place of publication: Publisher, Date. (Page number and ISSN is optional.) Here is an example in MLA style:
 * Fleming, Michael. "Hilary Swank to play Amelia Earhart". Variety, February 7, 2008. Retrieved: October 8, 2008.

FWIW: The American Psychiatric Association (APA) style guide is widely used by Wikipedia for referencing statements. However, the most common worldwide guide is the Modern Language Association (MLA) style guide. *Author (last name, first name) (date of publication- Year). "Title (of article in quotation marks). Title of magazine or journal (Volume, Issue number, date). Place of publication: Publisher. (Page number and ISSN is optional.)

Here is the APA style example: Here is the MLA style example:
 * Butler, Susan (1997). East to the Dawn: The Life of Amelia Earhart. Addison-Wesley.
 * Butler, Susan. East to the Dawn: The Life of Amelia Earhart. Reading, MA: Addison-Wesley, 1997.

The Wikipedia templates remain as a particular bugaboo and follow the ancient precept of "garbarge in, garbage out" in that it is imminently easier to find examples of editors completely at a loss as to which template to use? journal, media? book? ad infinitum, not to mention what goes into each "tracing" or field. My experience with editing Wikipedia is that templates are to not be trusted, and it was agreed upon at some point by some consensus process that templates were NOT to be regimented, mandated or in any way, proscribed. I am not also not saying YOU are wrong, because I have run into similar issues with every manner of editing in wickywackywonderland.

I also have had to conform to WP's sometimes unique styles or rules, as I am sure you have as well, and I have been able to adapt the citation and bibliographic templates to actually output properly but the sheer effort of picking through the templates and correcting the initial inputs to conform with a consistent Chicago-Style, Modern Language Style or other, is out of proportion to actual writing out the style manually in a "scratch" editing manner. I abhor the use of APA guides as they eliminate the publication location (a patch now allows a location field), places date with the author, disregarding publication variants, volumes or alternate dates of publication, does not allow for multiple authors (another clumsy patch was slapped on the templates to allow this) along with numerous other errors in template design, led me to begin a campaign for the developers to at least alter the templates or offer alternate versions, all to no response other than the usual, "if you don't like them, don't use them" canard.

As for the dating schema in most international articles, in the main article, I also prefer how it is: day-month-year, as it conforms to the professional, military and academic styles of dating. However, I do have to disagree about using that style in the citations, as it is NOT fairly standard to use ISO Dating and that relates to a complete conflab that occurred when date strictures were being discussed, this contentious issue being discussed eons ago. As I also spend much of my time fixing citation formatting, I rely on one standard, "what does the reader understand?" and this is also the standard adopted by the WP:Aviation group, where American-style "popular" dating (M-D-Y) is used for civil aviation subjects, and International or "formal" dating is used for all military and internally-related aviation subjects. ISO dating was considered and rejected for one simple reason, in that most of the world does not use or understand what 12-05-11 means, is it December 5, 2011? May 11, 2012? November 5, 2012? (even when written 2012-05-11, the confusion remains: November 5, 2012 or May 11, 2012?) and in eliminating possible confusion, why would two systems of dating be used, one for the body of the article and one for the templates??

Many, albeit minor, mistakes keep appearing when you manually type into citation templates: missing a bracket, missing one format control character, etc. (I make these mistakes all the time too, but significantly less so when not utilizing templates). I write frequently about aviation/aerospace topics (in some parts of the world, aerospace refers only to military air power, or to manufacturing), so the dating format that I use for citations is quite common, and also prevents the usual disagreements about what the triple-double hockey pucks does that jumble of numbers mean? While full-date formats between North Americans and the rest of the English-speaking world in terms of what the correct order is (to a point, a user can set this in their preferences, but the vast number of the unwashed are actually only readers and do not have preferences set in order to read Wikipedia). The auto-date-conform does not work, and at one time, WP auto-corrected the date from YYYY-MM-DD to the full-date format the user wished, but apparently doesn't anymore, and will not, as the issue was killed, buried and went the way of wik-linking dates. That's why I use the date style that I do, and why I think that should be the style used for EVERY aviation topic as already covered in the aviation group.

I also try to include ISBNs as much as possible to help with the verification aspect of the citation, but this "tracing" does not get included with a formal bibliographic record but it only is a "pointer" to a bookseller. Also optional of course is the the url, if one exists. I try to include an url from either to the American Library of Congress or a university library system for books, that do not have ISBNs. (However, if the initial reference source is available, the editor should use the actual source material and not a nebulous one that MIGHT be available in some collection)

If it can help make it easier for verification, I'll also try to provide a virtual link to a reference source. Likewise, when it comes to citing webpages, I also try to use a Webcite to archive the page. The problem with Webcite is that it doesn't always preserve the formatting (back to my original points). It also doesn't always copy the page — as an example, the The New York Times or Aviation Week because those sites specifically ask that they not be archived and often are subscription or "Timex" based.

Basically, the citation templates were created as a shortcut system for Wikipedia users who were unfamiliar with bibliographic referencing. The creator/developers have chosen a particular citation and bibliography style based on the American Psychological Association (APA) Style guide which is used for academic work in the social sciences (anthropology, archaeology, economics, geography, history, linguistics, political science, international studies, communications, and, in some contexts, psychology). I prefer the Modern Language Association (MLA) Style Guide which is used predominately for academic works in the humanities (ancient and modern languages, literature, law, history, philosophy, religion, and visual and performing arts. Additional subjects often included in the humanities are technology, anthropology, area studies, communication studies, cultural studies, and linguistics.). Since the work I specialize in is the history of a technology subject, e.g. aircraft, the MLA style guide works best, however, there are no Wikipedia templates written for this format. It is not that I am a Luddite, as I have been a reference librarian for over 30 years and had used electronic referencing templates for decades. Since I and many other Wikipedia editors can use "scratch" cataloging by hand-writing the preferred style guide, I find I can accommodate all manner of media, from print to non-print, every aspect of authorship and publishing and yet have the information appear correctly to the reader or viewer.

This recent editing dispute in the Red Tail Project where I began to work on citations and the bibliography only to have you revert nearly all the changes, insisting that the citation templates were the "proper" style (again, eyes swimming backward into my head). In attempting to keep the templates in place but making only changes to the data, it took over three hours of work, while the reversion took a nanosecond. FWiW, that's why I prefer to dialogue before going into the voluminous diatribe you have just been subjected to. My abject apologies here ... Bzuk (talk) 13:52, 26 February 2012 (UTC).

Crown Fountain
No big deal, I thought it might work for the article. Feel free to do with it as you please, thanks for letting me know senor. IvoShandor (talk) 19:08, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Pilot (The Cosby Show)
The DYK project (nominate) 00:04, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

External Link for the Emmy's
Tony, why are you adding this? The Emmy category you are adding is mearly a subset of the larger category immediately preceeding it. It has no additional information. Arzel (talk) 02:11, 25 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that. I caught you in the middle of your reformatting.  Arzel (talk) 02:40, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

United Nations Article
Hello,

I'm the Campus Ambassador for the class. I don't plan to make any edit to the United Nations article. The article was included in the list as an example for the students to follow when adding their articles to the table. I updated the course pages to show that it is an example.

Thanks! Etlib (talk) 23:27, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 February 2012

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 * EdwardsBot (talk) 02:23, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

joining
would you like to join our disccuion on User talk:Worm That Turned/Adopt/Walter55024.--Walter55024 (talk) 23:25, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Drew Crawford
The DYK project (nominate) 09:22, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Reggie Hamilton
Tony, any interest in creating Reggie Hamilton's article? He plays for Oakland and is a 5'11" senior shooting guard (he previously played for UMKC before transferring). He currently leads Division I in scoring (and will most likely be the season's scoring champ when it's all said and done), and he's a lock for The Summit League Men's Basketball Player of the Year award. He may even be a second round NBA draft pick. The reason I'm asking you is because he's from Chicago and attended Thornwood High School. Want to make his article before someone else jumps in and does a much crappier job? Jrcla2 (talk) 14:34, 29 February 2012 (UTC)


 * →Talkback at User talk:Jrcla2. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:01, 29 February 2012 (UTC)